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Nekromanda β Stamp: A+ for trying.
Published: 2012-08-28 12:45:48 +0000 UTC; Views: 1421; Favourites: 35; Downloads: 3
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Basically, the things that they stand for, are all great things.I just don't think that atheism movements needs to branch off into a billion different directions, just to get rid of a few dicks.
On another note - Christina Rad breaks down Gender Roles, Trolls, and Sexual Harassment Policies .
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Comments: 33
Atheism+? My response to that is "Been there, done that".
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I don't necessarily associate with the A plusers as a group, mostly on account of the fact that they've internalized too much of the reverse sexism that is rife among modern feminism. But I do very much like the concept of atheism plus, which marries the skeptical/rational approach to religion with the skeptical/rational approach to other social justice issues. I'm pretty sure it's understood that A plusers don't all have to hold the same beliefs about the various social justice issues, it's just a statement that they are both atheists and interested in social justice (and approaching it from a rational perspective). Which I am.
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*shrug* I have no interest in atheist communities that are also rife with bigotry. (Not saying all of them are, but it is a problematic element (not specific to atheist groups).) So, if I can choose between a group where I know they'll care about that and a group where I'm not sure I'm picking the group where they care.
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Fair enough, I mean whatever floats your boat! I might not think that it's exactly necessary to just brandish a whole new name, but I mean I agree that keeping sexism and bigotry and all that out of the community would be a good thing.
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Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you.....oh, and did I mention thank you?
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It is pretty clever
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Erm, when did Atheism stop being "I just don't believe in religion"?
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I don't see the point of this thing... Those things have nothing to do with the disbelief in any gods/goddesses, and already have groups targeted at stopping them.
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I'm athiest. That's all I can say about myself.
Though my personality isn't going to match every other one.
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Atheists have already broken themselves down into separate groups, though. Gnostic Atheism, Agnostic Atheism, etc...
I do agree with your general message here, though, and I agree wholeheartedly. An atheist is an atheist is an atheist. Just as a Christian is a Christian is a Christian. And among ANY group of people, there will ALWAYS be good, and bad. It's the nature of humans, and groups of humans. *shrugs*
I agree, no such thing needed as +/plus nonsense. Either you are an Atheist or you are not... and it really is that simple in my mind. No need for all the extra labelling and mimicry of the same mistakes Christian believers have made time and time again.
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Well true, and I could have worded that a bit better I think - by tacking on specific rules that every atheist must adhere to in order to be viewed as a decent atheist, it's becoming a bit too similar to religion for my taste. The tribal mentality that they seem to be pushing ("So either you endorse the values and aims I have laid out, or you do not. If you do, just join the cause and stop fretting over being part of a culture whose values you embrace. But if you donβt endorse these values, then you are our enemy,") is just ludicrous. Being an atheist has nothing to do with all these other things, only whether or not you believe in God(s). There are other organizations that cover these things, Feminism, Secular Humanism, etc. Anyway, I'm rambling, haha. Point is - I agree wit you, thanks for the comment!
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According to Richard Carrier of FreeThoughtBlogs,
"--------
"So either you endorse the values and aims I have laid out, or you do not. If you do, just join the cause and stop fretting over being part of a culture whose values you embrace. But if you donβt endorse these values, then you are our enemy, in one fashion or anotherβbecause you will be endorsing, supporting (even if only through apathy and inaction), values that will ultimately destroy or undermine the human good. You are then in our way, the same way Neonazis and Marxists and anarchists and UFO cults and churches and right wing think tanks and so on, are in our way, and what we will denounce and disown. You can be among them, or among us. Itβs that simple."
The fact that not only is simple apathy toward the causes of the A+ movement (because we all know that every atheist should be a gay rights activist and a feminist) makes you an "enemy" but this new trend their throwing around has a completely inaccurate view of what atheism is to begin with.
The whole 'you're with us or against us' thing when it comes to issues that have nothing to do with atheism itself (with perhaps the exception of critical thinking and skepticism, the very last thing on their values list) seems entirely absurd.
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Wow, they sound like a cult...
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I am definitely not a fan of that whole tribal mentality thing. The idea that atheism has to be only one thing is a step in the wrong direction. While I call myself a secular humanist and already support the ideas that they mention, I agree with you in that it's a bit ridiculous to tack on all of these requirements in order to be viewed as a decent atheist.
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whaaaaa? lol
this seems a little ridiculous.
geez, never even heard of this junk before... amazing the things people will tell themselves.
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Well, I guess you can't say they don't mean well. xD
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True, like I've said their heart is in the right place, for the most part. It just comes across as trying to be trendy and holier-than-thou, but in an atheistic setting.
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"I'm better than you because I believe in THIS and THIS" that sass sounds all too familiar....
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I kinda already thought that the "A+ Values" were kinda included in Secular Humanism and the baggage that comes with being an Atheist in the modern day. Seems like I keep missing memos, like the one that the Christians keep mentioning about the whole "If you dont beliee in god you must be running arounds raping, pillaging, murdering, and burning down churches." Did I just not sign up in the right place to get these notices?
Besides the whole "Atheism +" (aka A+) just seems like a cheap way to one-up everyone and acting trendy by adding a "+" Kinda like "we arent generation X, we are generation neXt!" Im not for trendy new age one-uping. Im satisfied with being a plain old atheist and secular humanist.
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I'm right there with ya. It does seem trendy to me, and though it's got its heart in the right place (trying to bring awareness of these issues and such), there's definitely other ways to do it.
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The idea is ripped directly from Secular Humanism, basically. And there have been other groups of atheists distinguishing themselves, too. Take the Brights for instance. They all sort of fade out, though secular humanism is certainly significant given its relative old age and large size. I think creating a label like this is just convenient, seeing as "atheist" means almost nothing. I am a Secular Humanist. I will describe myself as such. Atheist+ just sounds silly. "Religion" and "shared moral code" should not be misconstrued as synonyms, or even significantly similar ideas in this case, though. They are very different.
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This is the first time I've heard of Atheism+. I think western Atheism usually goes hand in hand with these values. It's not necessarily so, but if people need to discriminate from other atheists it's probably because there are some who they don't want to be confused with, because of their behavior.
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In the spirit of seeing both sides of an issue, here's what PZ Myers had to say about it: [link]
I liked his point that while atheism in itself is a neutral, atheists and atheistic organizations shouldn't be. I myself am a Secular Humanist, and I agree with more or less all values that the people at FTB espouse. I'm not against organizing, either- there need be nothing religious about joining hands for a cause (or a number of causes, as it appears).
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I can't see this catching on very long. It makes no sense, atheism is the disbelief in a god. Yeah, it implies being skeptical, but like you said, we have Secular Humanism.
I
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It seems like asking for trouble. I don't think we need anything like this.
That being said, I agree with your opinion on the subject.
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Thank you, I agree. I also read something about there being some sort of, "if you're not with us, you're against us" mentality. That sort of thinking isn't very healthy for any group of people, if you ask me.
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