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Nekromanda — Stamp: I refuse.
Published: 2012-12-06 11:38:42 +0000 UTC; Views: 29990; Favourites: 939; Downloads: 21
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Description
Before you start whining and/or reporting my stamp(s) as offensive to your sensitive little head -I do not believe that it would be morally acceptable for me (me, myself, personally) to raise whatever children I do end up having to be religious in any way. I was not raised 'forced' to believe -- slightly suggested was more like it -- and I think I turned out just fine.
Now, that's not to say I'm not going to expose my children to the many different religions out there. Religions are very interesting things. I think they're worth having a look at. I would like to show them these different faiths, while at the same time making sure they know that people all over the world believe many different things, and that while these things are interesting and fun to think and talk about, they cannot all be true.
When my kids get to an age where they can decide for themselves what they want to believe, then I'll go on from there. If the end up Christian,Hindu, Pagan, Jewish, Muslim, Atheist... then that's their decision, and I will want them to know that I support them no matter what.
So don't think that I'm an evil atheist who is going to force my children to NOT believe, just don't think that I'm going to force them TO believe anything supernatural in particular, either.
As a side note - While I was taking a shower today I had a fun little idea - Science Sunday School! There really aren't any Sunday School options for... well. Atheists. But it'd be really neat to see someone put together a Sunday School program for children interested in science and stuff -- regardless of faith. How awesome would that be?
Edit:
I should also add that NO. I am not trying to make science into a religion. I can see how my previous wording could have been mistaken by someone not really paying attention the the whole paragraph. That's okay, I'm used to people taking quotes out of context and trying to use them to justify silliness.
Science is obviously not a religion. Sunday School, as I experienced it, was mostly about creating community and friends, while still learning and enjoying something that we had a common interest in -- in that case, yes, it was God. But the difference here is that I do not worship science, and that accepting children of other faiths into whatever science club would come would NOT be about religious experience. You can enjoy science while still being of X, Y, and Z faith.
The point of said school would be to encourage an interest in science - something that America desperately will need of its youth if it wants to continue to compete in the world economy in the future. That's the way I see it.
Additionally - I could call it a "Sunday Science Club," but you know what? Nah. I'm going to stick with School. Because Christianity does not have a monopoly on Sunday activities, they do not own the words "Sunday" or "School," and you know what? S.S.S. looks way cooler than S.S.C. It even sounds more bad-ass, like a snake or something.
You know what, I'm totally going to go through with this when I move back to the US. And our mascot will be the snakes. I'll make billboards and post them on the sides of the roads so that everyone will be forced to look at them, too. And if your kid is too busy going to Church to attend this bad-ass super sweet Sunday Science School, then that's too bad. The rest of the Super Sweet Sunday Science School Snakes and I will be doing Science and not giving a single damn, because that's just how we roll.
SCIENCE SNAKES FO LYFE (But only the one life, because the majority of us will probably not believe in an afterlife. Although some might, but still, it's worth mentioning that there is probably no God, just to piss you off.)
EDIT
Adding on some fun things for certain people:
The Jefferson Bible - Thomas Jefferson's version of the New Testament wherein he removed all sections of the four gospels which contain the Resurrection, most miracles, passages indicating that Jesus was divine, and most mentions of the supernatural.
Thomas Jefferson - one of America's founding fathers. Was a Christian in name, however held deistic views. Insisted on the separation of Church and State on several different occasions.
Deism - the belief that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of God, accompanied with the rejection of revelation and authority as a source of religious knowledge. Deism became prominent in the 17th and 18th centuries during the Age of Enlightenment among intellectuals raised as Christians who believed in one god, but found fault with organized religion and could not believe in supernatural events such as miracles, the inerrancy of scriptures, or the Trinity.
Christian Fundamentalism - a movement within Protestantism upholding a literal reading of the Bible. Fundamentalists fight against things like evolution because it contradicts their warm fuzzy feelings about God popping everything into existence as-is (despite evidence that supports the Theory of Evolution), and are viewed by many as intolerant, narrow-minded, and obscurantist.
Creationism - the religious belief that humanity, life, the Earth, and the universe are the creation of a supernatural being, usually the Abrahamic flavour of God. Despite mounds of evidence that is in support of evolution, and an enormous LACK of evidence for creationism, people still cling to this way of thinking because, because God! And Jesus! Tide goes in, tide goes out! You can't explain that!
Atheism - the rejection of belief in the existence of deities. That's it. Seriously.
Texture Used: Knitwear 1 by ~Stocondil
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Comments: 919
i agree, whenever i start a family, i will give them the right to choose what to believe..
i was forced religion down my throat when i was a kid and it was god awful (aha, joke)
i never want them to do something or believe in something they don't want to
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I personally am unsure if religion has been forced upon me. I was brought up Catholic, but by the time I was 15 my beliefs had shifted and I realized that I was Atheist. Neither of my parents had talked to me about what I should or should not believe, and I have also never been to church, however my mother is very strict and sometimes I feel that she is a control freak. Despite this, she herself has said that she questions God's existence. However, since she has not outright said that she is Atheist and because she is slightly controlling (it's always either her way or the highway; she treats my father in a similar way, maybe just not as bad given that he is an adult and she obviously does not have as much control over him, him being over 50 and myself 16), I am unsure whether or not telling her would be a good idea. I have been Atheist for about a year now and I just can't bring myself to tell her.
I have a friend, on the other hand, who is not Atheist but has different, self-created beliefs that involve a god different from the one commonly worshiped by Christians, Catholics, etc. Her parents (or her mother at the very least) are greatly religious. Her mother had forced her to go to church after she had told her what she truly believes, asking her "Do you believe in our God now?" after coming back.
I am at a great loss of what to do for myself as well as helping to console my friend. Especially because, well, you've seen some of the things the insane Atheists do. I'm afraid my mom will think I believe in the same, unreasonable intolerance as those that want God taken off the dollar bill, try to change holiday names, dislike hearing "Christmas vacation" rather than "Holiday break", etc. I'm not sure how easily she's brainwashed by that sort of thing. Not to mention I was hit quite a lot as a child. Although, in all honesty, I'd sort of describe myself as a rebel; if I don't like how she's treating me and I'm annoyed enough, I will speak up.
If she treats me badly for my religion, should I try to stand up for myself and express how wrong it is for a woman to treat her daughter unjustly over different beliefs? I am constantly stressing to her over and over and over again that I am not her, I do not feel the same way as her, I do not think the same way as her, I do not share all of the same beliefs as her. She just doesn't understand that I am a different person.
Again my question being, should I stand up for myself against my mother, whether she is right or wrong?
(Sorry for long post, I tend to ramble.)
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in fact i will not have childrens xD
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I've asked you before not to spam me with these sorts of posts. I'm asking you again. Take your passive aggressiveness elsewhere.
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SEVEN-HUNDRED-SEVENTY-SEVEN SUNDAY SCIENCE SCHOOL STUDENTS STUDY S'WHILE SWEEPING SWIFTLY.
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That's one heck of a tongue twister, haha
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My Parents never forced Religion or Political views om me and left that for me to discover in later life, I am an Agnostic Atheist, Socialist anarchist through finding out on my own.
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That's awesome, I think experimentation and self-discovery is the best way to go, personally.
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Hehe thanks, I certainly hope I will be.
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I personally, if I have kids, will just answer what I'm asked. I'm not going to sit them down one day and have a The Talk styled discussion about religious and spiritual beliefs or lackthereof.
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I think that's probably the best way to go about it, though personally I would want to somehow begin that sort of conversation before the attempts at indoctrination start rolling in.
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Someone with common sense, thanks. Normally, i don't think religion is forced but a choice, you can chose to be a Christian or Mormon or something. It doesn't matter much.
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I would love for my child (if I have one) to believe in God. However I believe forcing God on people is wrong. Why would I do that to my child? That doesn't mean I wouldn't teach them about my religion, but they ultimately have to make up their own minds.
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Let me love you, you wonderful child of God.
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I second what *MadPrinceFeanor said - thanks for being awesome, haha
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Thank you. I just don't see the point in forcing a child. I mean taking them to Sunday school and things are one thing unless they really don't like it, but up to a certain age they do have to do it. I mean a babysitter would be too dang expesive for me to hop off to church and not have them with me.
Although I wouldn't enforce that they had to believe in that or else. It's just wrong. I mean we as Christians believe it's not just a belief. You have to have a walk with Jesus. You have to get to know him. That takes faith and not just a belief I believe.
Plus you could just be pushing them further away. I mean nothing pushes a person further away than being forced. You could severely damage their view. It really just doesn't make sense to me.
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As Bill Maher once said, "Thank you for being Christ-like and not just Christian." It's always refreshing to see a sane person of faith.
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You are welcome. Thank you.
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Sounds like the kind of sunday school I wish I'd went to. The christian sunday school thing was boring. But the free snacks were good.
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Haha, same here. I used to watch Bill Nye the Science Guy all the time as a kid, and always wanted to do the cool experiments they did on the show. I would have loved to have something like that to go to every once in a while!
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My fuzzy baby is completely free to believe in whatever he wants. Interfering with his beliefs would hamper his development into a complete and fluffy husky. Granted, if he started worshipping me as the "Bringer of the food and snuggles" I think I would feel rather odd and uncomfortable about that relationship.
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My mom was saying this the other day. She's not really any classified religion, but she barely told me any of her views until recently as she didn't want to shove it down my throat.
Personally, I'm not going to have kids. But if I did, I wouldn't force my religious views down their throat(s) either.
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Here here. I will never force my fuzzy baby to be an atheist dog. He should be free to grow and develope into whatever he wants to be, to do anything else would stunt his being a husky. I assume the same would be for anyone wanting to raise goats.
Oh, you are talking about human kids... Yea, while they arent as cute and far more expensive I suppose that they should not be forced to believe in anything they do not want to.
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Haha, yeah I suppose I could be also referring to human children... now I want a baby goat! :C
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Goats make great lawnmowers and can get milk and cheese from them
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Omg that settles it, I'm totally getting a goat! My lawn is massive, having them eat the grass would be so much easier than mowing it myself, haha
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I'm not quite sure how I would handle the religion thing if I ever had kids. My dad certainly followed this path, letting my mom handle taking us to church when she took is for the weekends (she stopped years ago) and, once we were old enough, telling us the "spiritual world" was ours to explore on our own. Neither me nor my sister believe in any religion, though I am the outspoken one. I suppose that I would do something similar, although hopefully I wouldn't have to raise a child on my own.
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Letting kids experiment with things on their own seems like a good thing, at least to me. That's how it was for me personally - I didn't necessarily have Christianity crammed down my throat as a child, but when I came to an age where I thought I was responsible or mature enough to look at different things, I was able to experiment with a couple of belief systems before finally deciding that none of them were for me.
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alright, im just not going to post in anymore of these types of threads.
atheists vs religion just doesnt work in dispute, and it will never lead to anything.
I'm just going to stick to things like that excellent journal entry one of your members wrote.
you present your argument cleanly, you even number your points. all very nice.
just tear down the whole argument so you guys can get back to being atheists.
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Fair enough, do as you please. I'm not going to force you to talk about anything you don't want to, haha. If you're talking about #inDISPUTE , be sure to check out the other sections in the group - it's not just all politics and religion.
You should consider writing a journal for the group yourself if you feel up to it! We need more group interaction, and having all sorts of different opinions posted would be awesome! So if you feel up to it let me know, okay?
I'll leave our previous conversation up as I tend not to hide comments unless I feel it's absolutely necessary. Please don't feel pressured to respond to any comments left by anyone in response to your previous points on this thread - it's entirely up to you whether or not you want to continue going on.
Thanks for the discussion, and take care.
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one more thing...
this had both left and right networks in the link
[link]
the corrupt federal reserve is not a conspiracy
a socialist president is not a conspiracy
ndaa is not a conspiracy
fema camps are not conspiracy
fuzion centers are not conspiracy
zionism is not conspiracy
hitler bombing his own capital building and passing the "anti-terror act" is not conspiracy
the "war on terrorism" being "a war for other countries oil" is not a conspiracy
drones are not a conspiracy
all things surrounding the tsa are not a conspiracy
dhs is not a conspiracy
the us working with al quada is not a conspiracy
***note- the word conspiracy is used in the form of a doubters view.
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Corrupt & government are generally put together, when money involved doubly so. The most surprising thing is that people are surprised.
Socialist president... big question is so? I assume then you have no problems with the Religious Right's outright statements of establishing a theocracy?
NDAA has been going on since 2007 IIRC. Big deal.
FEMA camps, always amusing to hear about. If your home was wiped out, would you turn away FEMA when they brought food and blankets and helped to rebuild? I doubt it... If anyone was to run camps, the Religious Right has outright stated they want to do that with gays and anyone who doesnt agree with them.
Fuzion Centers, big fucking deal. Funny thing is that they generally provide bad intelligence.
Zionism... because it was not enough to be a russian fraud, it has to be TRUE!!!
Hitler bombing... no shit sherlock. Well documented.
War on terrorism, again thank you captain obvious.
Drones... hello? This is news? They fly them at airshows and trot them out on the recruitment videos left and right.
TSA, yea they are douchebags that make flying harder
DHS... comspiracy? They are out in the fucking open.
Um, yes, US supplied and trained al aqaeda is a matter of public record.
Thank you for irrelevant statements, some insanity, some batshittery, and some absolutely obvious statements.
What about the face on mars or the swastika shaped Denver airport? Or is your tin-foil hat not on tight enough for that.
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Your are such an idiot.
You gave all pop culture-esque opinions.
The most important point in my previous post, The federal reserve, you made no mention of.
You left out the most important part of all of it.
I feel embarrassed for you, to even read what you wrote.
Im talking about "fill in the blank" and you bring up gay rights? LOL...what do gay rights have anything to do with anything, gay rights are not the most important issue going on in this planet.
NDAA: actually it has been z"going on" since bush signed the anti terrorist act...I mean patriot act. NDAA wasn't actually signed into legislation until 2011. I dont now what your comment "it has been going on" even means.
zionism:
you dont know what a zionist is, lol.
Drones:
You are such a fool. They are also being used to kill human beings sir-blunders a lot. They have also created a drone that walks the ground and is designed to kill. It doesnt differentiate between what is good and bad, as it is a robot and couldn't perform such a function.
DHS:
1.6 billion hollow point bullets and you cant make the connection, lol.
again, more pop culture rhetoric by you. It's pathetic how little you know.
Hitler bombing... no shit sherlock:
I have an equally lame remark, as it is deserving in such a situation..."1993 called...it wants it's catchphrase back"
who says the whole "sherlock" bit anymore...WHO, lol! Your a hack!
You know someone knows whats going on in the world when they express them self with a "no shit sherlock"
FEMA camps:
Thats not the fema camp I was talking about stupid. lol...oh my your are....dumb.
We know how great fema is when they do a piss poor job in both katrina and sandy alike. We love fema when they hand out loans, and can then turn around and ask for 30 thousands dollars back to be paid within a year.
Again...I am not talking about a fema camp where "fema shows up with free warm blankets and gives out free money to all" You are child like...It's embarrassing i am even wasting time typing this to you.
"Socialist president... big question is so?"
yes a president who tortures and kills people and is intentionally driving this country off the fiscal cliff.
operation fast and furious.
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You are right, I am a hack. I have no respect for idiots who will accept in vast conspiracies and as I am a firm believer in the Bubba Effect and so I aimed for low brow that you had a chance of understanding it. Unfortunately, going back, I see too much bad sarcasm and not enough basic contempt for someone who lacks logic and a basic understanding of human nature. Oh well, Im still not the best at trolling yet, I will work on it though.
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"You are right, I am a hack. I have no respect for idiots who will accept in vast conspiracies"
thats not what a hack is...I stopped reading your post after that sentence, what a waste of time you are.
bye.
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I like this a lot. I wish more parents were as willing to let their children believe what they want rather than forcing them to believe the way they do, but it's good to know at least that there are some who give their children the right to decide for themselves.
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I can see your point, but I personally believe that kids of a certain age feel that they have to belong to a certain group, whether it be religious or other. Community, whether Sunday school or as you say, science school is very important to their growth. I know--my kids go to both! As they get older, they will decide for themselves.
BTW--there are science schools for kids interested in science. Ours meets on the weekend at one of the universities in the area. If you are near a college you should check it out.
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That's very true, community is a big influence on pretty much everyone. I just hope that my future kids end up in a group of nice people... but hey, who knows, it could go either way I guess.
Thanks for the tip! I'll definitely have to check that out -- that's exactly what I would be looking for!
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I read your description, and I agree religions are very interesting things which should probably be looked at and realize everyone believes in different things.
Personally though I don't agree with the whole purpose of this stamp, because I'm a jerk.
If they genuinely believe in that stuff, then that's not something I can control, but otherwise...no.
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Thanks, and no I don't think you're a jerk for disagreeing, haha. I wasn't very clear with why I made the particular stamp in the first place, so allow me to clarify.
I mentioned in a comment earlier that I only have a problem with people raising their kids to belong to X, Y or Z religion if it causes problems for the kid (reparative therapy, abuse, ostracization if they lose/deny faith, etc). I suppose that I was pretty inspired to even make this stamp because I had just finished with reading a news article about how some parents beat their kid to death because he lied about reading his bible and doing his homework.
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Yeah, those problems can't always be found out in time, so you it may be hard to tell... But I agree with that bit for sure. Looking and analyzing religions (for reasons I describe) is also important.
That's also a terrible shame for the kid. See the good in that?
My POV on the entire thing:
I'm just... to put it nicely, not a fan of religion, and to be honest I don't really agree with people who say "you are free to believe what you want, BUT, don't say it to me". It's still intolerance, and it's progressively, as well as subtly, telling people not to believe in what they want, even if that's not their intention. Why? Because by saying that you essentially don't want to put up with what they believe in, because you disagree. If you're not willing to hear it that's not really tolerance. It can be argued, but I still believe that. Also, the people who believe in a religion but don't follow their (Christian in this case) bible also bug me. 1), how are you Christian then if you don't follow 70% of it, 2) how come everything in the Bible is wrong except for the things that work in today's world? 3) stop asking for respect because you're a "modern Christian", it's as disgusting as demanding respect because you're an Atheist.
That's me though. To me religion has no use, but my ideology doesn't work in today's world (of tolerance) either. I just wanted to say that.
I used to be religious, and my parents thought that I followed it, but I always questioned it and therefore it left a bad impact on me, but probably not nearly as bad as the things you listed. I can't say I lost faith, because deep down I never fully believed in it. I just questioned too much of it.
THAT SAID (neutrality what), religions shouldn't be disregarded as non-existent, and we should still hold on to the bible and other religious texts. Their importance is crucial in looking at culture, art, history and all that jolly good stuff, so it never should be forgotten... But to follow it today for the sake of being "tolerant" is not helping progression or society or anything. I mean... the US... Blargh. Some states are going backwards with rights and stuff, correct?
P.S: If people assume I'm racist or sexist or anything of the sort... No. I'm not. I just am not a fan of religion.
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I totally sympathize with you on your dislike of religion. I'm not a fan of most religions myself. People get all pissy with me and ask why I always go after Christianity, while not seeming to understand that Christianity is the one that's thrust in my face every single day, whether I like it or not. And it's the same way for pretty much everyone who is not Christian and who lives in a Westernized country where a great percentage of people believe that Jesus was a real person who was really the son of God who really rose from the dead.
I do try to hear people out though. I have a couple of Jehovah's Witnesses that I let drop by every once in a while. They leave me arguments and newsletters and other things that supposedly prove things like, evolution is wrong, Noah really could build an ark and have all the animals on it, etc etc. I hear them out, but I also know that there is absolutely no way that they will ever convince me that they are right - well, aside from God or Jesus or whoever dropping from the sky itself and telling me that I'm wrong.
I'd like to think I'm a pretty tolerant person though, considering that I'm not actively going out of my way to force people not to believe in this, that, or the other thing. It's important to have a dialogue about religion, though, and not place it on some high unreachable shelf where nobody can ever discuss it lest someone be -gasp!- offended!
That's true that the problems I mentioned can't always be found out in time, but it's also worth saying that obviously we can't all know everything that happens in the homes of religious folks. The best thing that we can do for now is speak out against things like abuse, indoctrination, conversion therapy, etc.
Saying things like "I will not force my kids to believe in God," might be a good way to do that - in my mind at least, it comes across as an opportunity for someone to consider the idea that there are some things that are best left up to the child to decide, and that a lack of faith is not worth punishing someone over.
Blah, sorry for the super long comment, I guess I'm rambling, haha...
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I'm glad we're on the same page. XD
I don't tend to say stuff like that even when it's probably necessary or more appropriate.
I don't try to be. It's actually awkward, because I live in a big family, and a majority of my siblings are either agnostic or atheist, although my parents are religious. My father is religious and he doesn't realize that I don't follow religion/Christianity, even thought we engage in long, deep chats about people, society, views and art... Science must be avoided though XD.
Agreed again. Although one could argue that telling the kid God isn't real and convincing them so is also a form of indoctrination, but then again, it's like telling them Santa is real. However it's not the same. Letting the kid decide however will ultimately be better I think, although I'm an example where I was being told that God was real and my thoughts were caught in a net, or whatever, but now I'm one of those "freer" thinkers. In a sense, being forced to believing in that but then finding another way to think is possible too. Depends on the person so never mind.
I don't mind long comments: sometimes they're too short, and sometimes I feel sad because I usually reply/comment on people who are smart but have nothing to say. yeah that's weird to say but it's true for me. Thanks!
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I read both your stamp and the description, and I have to say I really like your way of raising kids.
Oh, and I think science in Sunday School would be awesome.
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