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Nekromanda — Stamp: What if?
Published: 2012-05-14 02:25:38 +0000 UTC; Views: 10037; Favourites: 306; Downloads: 16
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"What if GOD* is the BAD guy?"*Referring to the God of the Bible
BibleGateway.com The Official King James Bible Online Bible Suite Online Parallel Bible The Thinking Atheist: List of Biblical Atrocities Secular Web: Bible Atrocities Skeptic's Annotated Bible: Cruelty and Violence in the Bible Videos
The Atheist Experience: Why does a loving God send people to Hell? Bg: [link]
Temp: [link]
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Comments: 934
Exactly. People can at least learn to not make Religious stamps like this. They just start extreme fights.
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...thats the point, ya know, 9 time out of 10.
ell that and challenging ones beliefs. It not a bad thing--people are just really butthurt about it for they aren't willing to question such things
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Some of them are to do just that, yes. Others are to get people to look outside the box, to think of their own opinions differently. It never hurts to take a walk in someone else's shoes.
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The God some religions believe in do show God as the bad guy, something I could never believe in.
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Ah yes because the being that created us and wants us to live a wonderful life is the bad guy... noobs.
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He also created pedophiles,killers,terrorists and rapists,yep! TOTALLY the good guy!
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He created man, but gave us a choice to choose our paths.
If you think you know everything about Christianity, then you wouldn't be writing this message. STOP ACTING LIKE IT.
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Ok,i'll stop. I never said that i knew anything about christianity. In fact,i don't know anything.
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...Then you can start learning if you want. :3
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He created the people, but they made bad choices and because killers, terrorists, etc.
Seriously, none of you obviously believe in God or anything so stop acting like you know anything about Christianity. It's like just hearing about a show, book, food or anything else and saying it sucks or thinking you know everything about it without even trying it.
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Well, I've never read the Bible, and I don't go to church because my mother felt that the stuff preached there would only serve as fuel for my OCD.
All I knew about God when I was little was what my mother told me, and she mostly only did so when I asked her. She never told me about any of the nasty stuff from the Bible that you quoted below, and personally, I don't believe that any of it is true. It just doesn't make sense to me that God would act that way. What does make sense, however, was Jesus' execution, because he and his followers' beliefs were different than those that were accepted at the time. It took a little while- and a little martyrdom on Jesus and his followers' part- for Christianity to become an accepted way of thinking.
I see the Bible as nothing more than a collection of thoughts and ideas that the writers put together, and enough readers agreed with them for the book to be glorified as sacred and all that jazz. But since it was written more than 2000 years ago, in a vastly different time period where people lived differently, thought differently, and had different values than we do today, I- and this is just my personal opinion- believe that the Bible has outlived its usefulness.
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Please don't take my word for it when I quote things from the bible. Seek out a copy of the bible and look up the verses for yourself. It's much better to investigate and see things with your own eyes than it is to believe a nameless, faceless person on the internet.
But yes, I agree that the Bible is very outdated.
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Wow, you're smart.
Can't even give a /reason/ why he's "bad".
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"Can't even give a /reason/ why he's "bad". 
I could go on, but I try not to spend too much time looking at my Bible because it makes me physically ill to read the things that a supposedly "all-loving" god supposedly did.
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God, who created everything and gave everything that`s good, who we all own for our life and existence, and whom no mere humanbeing could even dream of even completly understand, can not do anything that might seem bad, without being absolutely the worst person ever???
Yeah, right...
You might think it`s a contradicting that He did all that in Old Testament without telling us people nowadays do anything that should be considered bad, but you know, it`s not like it`s impossible that you just don`t understand the Bible. Don`t treat me as an idiot as if I`ve never considered all this and just thought "Well, He`s God. He can do whatever He want`s, whetever it`s Good or not." because I`m not like that!
You remember that innocent guy in the Old Testament, whose Faith God tested by letting all kind of bad things happen to him? You might think it was Evil thing to do, but that`s all; it`s your opinion. God repayd multiple times all that hardship that poor innocent guy went through and millions of people who have herd that story have had positive effect of it (Afterall, there`s a reason why it was one the Bible). Either the story itself is touching, reminding how we will be repayd all the bad things we`ve been through (if we stay by His side till the very end) as Good will always win in the end, or that it just give, along with that lesson, a better idea of who God is.
If you understood the Bible, you would realize that God is impossible to fully understand. It`s not like the Allknowing supernatural godly being can`t be right when some people like you are yelling "God did bad things again!". But I give you that that just because and Allknowing supernatural being would be impossible for us humans to understand, doesn`t mean that the Bible cannot be false and that God cannot be Evil. It`s just that my point is to tell that God can be good, despite all those things you have and could`ve listed there.
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So Biblegod is Cthulhu.
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Absolutely not.
As far as I can tell by the quick research I just did, Cthulhu destroys things because he`s evil and/for he does not care about anyone he victimizes whereas Biblegod, by all means, cares about everyone of us.
Think of humans as broken parts of some epic machinery we`re all meanty be part of. If the one responsible to assemble them alltogether were to use any part before fixing them, he would risk the whole machinery! Now add a little plotwist of those parts having a free will of whetever they want to be fixed by this guy or not, and what you get? Mankind, with easy to see whose fault this all is; rebelius bricks that wish not to fulfill their well calculated and planned destiny! The real punichment of sin is getting further away from fulfilling the purpose of oneself's life. People not getting to Heaven, but being sended to Hell is because there's no other choise; letting any sin to Heaven would ruin the whole point of it being Pure and Perfect in the first place. If you wish to builld something that didn`t last, you might as well just use those broken parts and possibly won`t even be able to finish it before it all collapses. That's meaningless bullshit.
And my God knows that. And He won't do that. Because He loves us.
If anyone comes between a man and God, He has responsiblity to do something about it. He's ways might've been tough, but by no means unjustisful, as our freedom of choise have been left untouched, and He's the one to give us everything Good in our lifes (as a gift, no less) in the first place. What is a mere man, that ungreatful bastard, to question His Will of taking something back?
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"If God is willing but not able to prevent evil, he is not omnipotent. If he is able by not willing, he is malevolent. If he is both willing and able, why does evil exist? If he is neither willing nor able, why call him God?"
I think it's pretty easy to understand him. This is the real world - either you are or you aren't. There is no grey in this matter what-so-ever. Don't go into the whole "free-will" thing because that same argument has been used for the existence of God and been proven bull.
If God exists, why doesn't he make himself more obviously and regularly active in human's lives and prevent at the very least a LARGE sum of tragedy by making things CLEAR? Because that would take away our free will? Lucifer was said to have known the truth about God and had the free will to challenge him. In fact, ALL angel's knew the truth about God and some still chose to challenge him. So that's obviously not the case.
That leads back into the quote I paraphrased. He is either ordinary, malevolent, incompetent or non-existent. Which is he?
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It`s impossible to both give people free will and destroy the Evil without destroying human, too. Unless you would not mind to be forced to belive and even worship God, I think the only question we can ask why did He let the Evil exicst in the first place and for that I have no answer nor do I belive I even could have.
You`re right that there is no grey, but I see no reason how "free-will" argument has been "proven bull".
Yeah, but the thing is, we people didn`t know that in the first place. There`s difference between angels` and people`s free will. For them, it`s crystal clear that God exicsts while us...well, have you seen God lately, proving His existence undoubtably for the whole mankind? Me neither. When people sins, they`re being fooled by the fallen angels. Even God`s angels are not perfect beings, God have been told to scold to His angels when they do something wrong, but unlike us humans, they do not fall in sin, because sin has no power in Heaven. Even when Satan pays a visit there (he have done that in Old Testament several times), he`s just there to talk with God.
That said, I see absolutely no point at all to compare angels` free will to people`s free will. We don`t know whetever God really exists or not.
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Faulthy logic there. By destroying evilness He would destroy humans, too. Afterall, He gave us free will so taking Evil away without destroying human would be forcing them to be good and that`s something He doesn`t want to do. You wouldn`t want to be forced to belive, even worship, Him, now do you?
Yes, ultimately there is no grey, but I can`t see how "free-will" argument have ever been "proven bull".
In the other hand, angels never got to choose whetever they want to belive in God or not. Angels` free will and humans` free will are two different things. God has been said to scold to His angels when they do something wrong. When we humans sins, it`s because we`re being fooled by the Evil, fallen angels. But as angels exicsts all in the same dimension, they can`t be fooled and/or "manipulated" the same way humans can, even if God`s angels were stupid enough to be fooled by the fallen ones. I don`t think fallen angels could even go to the Heaven anymore. Well, expect of Satan, but he`s only there to talk with God. He defenitely won`t have any power there anymore (If he were to do something bad there, God would immediately kick him out of there or something)
In short, God proving Himself true wouldn`t indeed be taking away of angels` free will, but it would still force people to belive in Him. Thus, I really see no point of comparing angels` free will to humans` free will.
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Not faulty logic. Ultimately, free-will does cause evil, but only a small percentage. Disease, hunger, disaster, etc. All of that can still be gotten rid of while leaving free will in tact. Actually, doing so might actually ENCOURAGE people to believe in and worship him because he did all of these things for them and there was PROOF he was actively looking out for them rather than multiple questionable personal experiences.
Angels are scolded, hmmm? What makes either of us any different if we were all created by God? The fact that they live up in Heaven with God? Why not have some angels and humans living in the same dimension and have the angels be like shepherds that people can actually interact with, question and seem guidance from? What's more there can be a hierarchy of angels that go all the way to God, like there is in Heaven, but each level keeps the lower one in line like the military? Something like that is so much easier to maintain, more neatly organized, there can still be free-will as the Angels only act as advisers and defenders against demons while God is still in Heaven, and it ultimately means that more people get into Heaven on their own as they have examples to structure themselves by.
I don't see why the angels are forced to believe and are only scolded for doing wrong, yet we are forced to live in ignorance and are damned to Hell because we were either rightfully skeptical, were born in the wrong place at the wrong time and so never had contact with the religion or the local government discourages it under various laws that we would naturally follow, or we made stupid choices.
The free will argument was proven bull because people have always said, if God reveals himself then that will take away free will period. I've heard this argument at least three times by different people and no one ever gave ANY distinction that human-will was any different than angel-will. Angels still have free will, as seen by Lucifer and his fallen angels. Moses still had free-will and he knew of God. How can these people have free will if they know the truth of God?
Also, a random but semi-relevant question. If God knew he would rebel, why did he create Lucifer? For shits and giggles?
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Adam and Eve were, in fact, immortal beings before they sinned. There weren`t any diseases back then nor a disaster threating them. Although things such as falling from high height, drowning or starving would be physically possible, God wouldn`t have allowed such a thing happen to them; Perfect people wouldn`t have made any mistakes that would`ve lead them into said conditions.
As animals didn`t kill eachothers in that earthly paraside, there wasn`t any bacters to cause diseases, either. All that perfectness that could`ve lastet to this very day was ruined by nothing but Sin. It was people`s choise that ruined the perfectness of this whole earthly creation. And as disaseas was caused by Sin, it can also be healed by God`s Goodness, either in natural way or miraculously as Jesus and many other people, even people nowadays, have done.
We can`t see the angels for the same reason we humans can no longer see and meet God face to face same way than people like Adam, Eve and Moses had. That said, the only way angels can help us to fight againts Evil is exactly the way they`re doing it right now.
I can actually understand why you can`t understand the difference between peoples` and angels` mistakes, because I`m not entirely sure about it myself, either. Maybe perfect people (Adam and Eve before sinning, Jesus) and God`s angels were clumsy? Let`s say that God wants some angel to carry something to somewhere else. It would be wrong to refuse from that, but what if that angel accidentally dropped and broke it?
Was His order to do it succesfully no matter what or did it matter that that angel was willing to at least give it a try? Or could that angel have refused from that without being kicked out of that place, as long as their true intentions, despite occassional disobedience, is to serve God? Just like us humans; we belivers have to make sure our sins won`t lead us away from God. Otherwice, we could lost our Faith in Him.
If angels could have fall at the beginning (even before our physical world was created), who says they can`t fall after that, too? Also, God is Righteous. If someone had never a change to hear about Jesus, they won`t automatically go staright to Hell. And God have said that He will give everyone a change to make the right decision about Jesus before they die. Three changes, in fact (or so I have herd). Afterall, Fait is a gift God wants everyone to have, so it`s all about accepting it when He`s offering it.
I didn`t mean it as if God would take people`s free will completly away if He were to reveal Himself. It would still be againts some people`s willingess not to belive in Him, even though they would still disobey and hate Him even if they knew He existed. If He could take that away from us, why couldn`t He just force everyone to obey Him?
And here`s a link to answer that last question of yours
[link]
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To be honest, I completely forgot we were having this conversation.
I still don't really agree with God nor His actions, but thank you for trying to explain things in a calm and rational way. I'm sorry if I came off as hostile at any point.
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It`s okay. My lazyness was partly the reason it took so long for me to finally answer to this.
I`m really glad to hear you`ve seen my arguments in such a positive way, even though you`re still disagreeing with them. I mean, not all nonbelivers I`ve argued with have been as openminded and rational like you. I don`t think you were being rude at any point, either.
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That's all from the Old Testament.
That's Angry God. After Jesus died for our sins, that all stopped happening.
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Old testament is still the bible. Same god as the one in the new testament.
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Aww, the little boy learned sarcasm! That's so adorable!
Try harder, troll.
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1. I'm a girl.
2. Pointing out that the god from the old testament is the same from the new one, doesn't make one a troll.
Try harder.
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1. Babies all look the same
2. White Knighting the stamp creator is trolling in my eyes
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1. Aw are you calling me your baby? Please, take care of me then.
2. Well just because it is in your eyes, doesn't make it so. Opinion =/= fact.
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By that logic we should release all the murderers we have in prison because they only murdered people in the past. That's when they were murderers. After they were captured, that all stopped happening.
That being said, Jesus completely supported "Angry God"'s actions and rules:
The terrible things didn't stop with what you call "Angry God."
My favorite part:
Meaning that God decides who will and who will not be "saved". According to this, predestines this for us. He determines our fate before we get any say in the matter. He willingly creates people without the capability to be "saved," condemning them to hell because of his decision to make them not able to be saved.
If God isn't "Angry" anymore, why does he send people to hell?
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"Fulfilling them" means dying so that doesn't happen again.
Also, I did some research, and I found the Bible may not even be God's true word. It most likely was made in a year by some Catholics who wanted to get people to hate gays, women, children, etc.
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You still didn't answer my question about why a loving god would condemn so many to hell.
But, I do agree with you that it's possible that the bible isn't God's true word. In fact, I don't believe in either of them: the bible OR god. There simply isn't enough evidence to support belief in a God of any sort. Even if there were one though, if the Bible were the infallible word of that god, it shouldn't have so many contradictions in it.
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Why wouldn't there be a God? Life doesn't just "appear". Something can't come from nothing.
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"Why wouldn't there be a God?"
Why would there be a God? Can you give me some valid reasons? Evidence that can be tested, verified, and the results able to be reproduced?
"Life doesn't just "appear."
Isn't that what God did essentially?
"Something can't come from nothing."
What created God, then?
(Please don't take my responses as rude, I know it's hard to pick up what someone is feeling over the internet and through text, but I just want to let you know I'm not trying to be hostile here. 
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"What created God, then?"
Big Bang.
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There isn't much yet, but we're not at a stage where we could prove Him. Heaven is a spiritual place; not a physical one.
No, He created life using His power.
He always was.
( Ok
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If there's no proof of his existence, then why believe?
If, for the sake of argument, I told you that there was an invisible dragon in my garage, would you believe me? Or would you ask for evidence before putting your faith in my claim?
As for heaven, how do we know that it is a spiritual place, let alone exists at all?
Creating life w/ Power: His power was speaking a magic word, making things come into existence... That seems to be the same as making things just appear.
"He always was."
We have no proof of that, why believe it? Why believe in the absence of evidence?
"The Dragon in My Garage" by Carl Sagan
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We don't have any evidence the universe is infinite; yet most astronomers think so.
No. If a lot of people thought there was an invisible dragon in your garage, yes.
Not quite. He created things.
Because what do you have to lose? If there is a Hell, why go to it?
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We have evidence for the Big Bang that we have observed. (I won't take too much time with this, if you'd like to look into it, here's a pretty good FAQ on Cosmology )
You would really believe that there was an invisible dragon in my garage if a lot of people thought so? Is that how the truth works?
A lot of people believed the world was flat at one time, does that mean that the world was flat and only became round when it was discovered to be? (Fallacy: Argumentum ad populum - Appeal to the masses)
'He created things.'
But how? How can we know?
"What do you have to lose?"
There are a few problems with that. For one, it assumes that belief is something that someone can consciously decide, regardless of whether or not someone is convinced. (Example: Do you believe in Zeus? Would you be able to believe in Zeus as strongly as you believe in God even if you didn't have evidence of Zeus?)
Even if I told myself that I believed, and went through the motions, wouldn't an all-knowing God know that I'm just lying to try and get out of Hell?
Second, it tells you you've only got two choices. Either you can believe, or you can not believe. That's simply not the case... Because not only do you have all the different types of Christianity, but you also have completely different religions to contend with, such as Judaism, Islam, Jainism, Hinduism, and thousands more. All the beliefs there conflict with each other, how are you to know which one is right? If one of them is right and you choose the wrong one, then you're pretty much done for, aren't you?
Lastly... It gives the impression that belief is something that, if you're wrong, you lose nothing. But I don't see it that way. I value my time, because I have one life to live, and it's short. I don't believe in an afterlife, because if I were to, I'd be so focused on trying to ensure that my afterlife went well that I'd miss out on quite a chunk of my actual life. The only life we know is the one we're living right now; we have no reason to believe in an afterlife. We can hope, but there's no guarantee.
For me, I would have a lot to lose. I would lose my sense of honesty because I'd be living a lie, worshiping a god I could not honestly believe in. I would lose time and energy, going to church and praying.
One of my favorite quotes comes from an interesting man who I'll be naming one of my sons after, if I have any:
"Live a good life. If there are gods and they are just, then they will not care how devout you have been, but will welcome you based on the virtues you have lived by. If there are gods, but unjust, then you should not want to worship them. If there are no gods, then you will be gone, but will have lived a noble life that will live on in the memories of your loved ones." --Marcus Aurelius
Sorry for the huge comment, I tend to ramble
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Thanks, I hope it made for an interesting read
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I think God is more of an Anti-hero. He can do what is good but he often won't.
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[link]
starts at around 6:15. Doesn't say God is a bad guy but more like a prick.
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actually back waaay~ back before christianity was around (so I guess religious ffff could tell me it's irrelevant and be only half right) the whole Luci VS. god thing when Lucifer was an actual relevant character, until written off and replaced with it's nemesis saten and with jesus yes Luci and saten are two totally different..eh things who hated each other god was more of a bastard then Luci was killing people for not believing and agreeing with it yadda yadda while Luci never did any of that, it wasn't good either but it wasn't all that bad aswell that's just the gist of it, it's a long confusing story that I didn't read fully but made me sit there going
"Luci is my homeboy"
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