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Published: 2010-02-01 01:06:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 37755; Favourites: 741; Downloads: 382
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Once you know what your characters and doing and saying, how do you get all that down on Paper without ending up with a huge confusing mess?Putting the Story on Paper.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Everybody knows that when a new speaker speaks they get a new paragraph, right? In other words, you DON'T put two different people talking in the same paragraph. Okay, yeah, so anyone who has written any kind of fiction learns this pretty darned quick, (usually from their readers.)
What nobody seems to get is that the same goes for a new character's ACTIONS. Seriously, when a new character ACTS they're supposed to get their own paragraph -- even if they don't speak!
In short, you paragraph by change in CHARACTER -- not because they speak, but because they ACT. Ahem... Dialogue is an ACTION. In other words, the reason you don't put two different characters' Dialogue in the same paragraph is BECAUSE you don't mix two characters' Actions. Okay?
"Wait a minute, doesn't that cut everything into tiny bits, you know, when you cut all the dialogue away then divide up all those paragraphs?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
No because Character A's dialogue is supposed to be IN Character A's paragraph of actions. Character B gets his own paragraph of dialogue AND actions. You divide up a story's paragraphs by individual Character -- not by individual lines of Dialogue OR Actions.
What you definitely don't do, is cut all the dialogue away from everything and mash all the different characters' actions together in one messy paragraph where no one can tell who did what.
"Where the heck did THAT rule come from?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Strunk & White's Element's of Style, the grammar handbook.
To wit…
-- "In dialogue, each speech, even if only a single word, is a paragraph by itself; that is, a new paragraph begins with each change of speaker."
This is often misinterpreted as "Make a new paragraph at every new line of dialogue."
Um... No. The key phrase here is "a new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
As long as the Speaker is Acting, the Speaker HAS NOT CHANGED. However, every time a new character Acts, you ARE Changing Speakers -- even if they don't talk! Therefore, each new character ACTING gets a New Paragraph, whether or not they have dialogue.
How this works...
WRONG:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. < -- Two Characters acting in the same paragraph.>
Becky mumbled, "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies." < -- this whole line is Abandoned Dialogue.>
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
RIGHT:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave it an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
What's Missing?
-- 'Becky mumbled'. <-- This is an unnecessary Dialogue tag. Once you link a character's Dialogue to their corresponding Actions, you no longer need the Dialogue tags.
If you really, really want to add that Becky mumbled her words, describe it as an action. Don't TELL us that she mumbled, SHOW us.
Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her voice dropped to a mumble. "I wouldn't so much say named, as gave an identifying word to distinguish it from all the other stuffed cute kitty plushies."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
-----Original Message-----
"What if the next internals and action/dialogue are his, like:"
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."
"Then can you lump those actions together?"
-- Thanks in advance -- Jas
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Um... NO.
-- Remember this?
"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and <-- Toby's Actions / Becky's Actions --> Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
Becky didn't say anything, but she IS acting -- a blush is an action -- therefore Becky gets her OWN paragraph.
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
However, this is incorrect too:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised.
Actions go BEFORE Reactions Toby was surprised so he commented: "You named a stuffed animal?" He didn't comment and THEN become surprised.
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
All together now!
Original:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"You named a stuffed animal?" Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised, and Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck. Her reaction was adorable and he couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies."
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Toby raised his eyebrows, surprised. "You named a stuffed animal?"
Becky's blush grew brighter, creeping down her neck.
Her reaction was so adorable, Toby couldn't resist needling her some more. "I thought you hated stuffies?"
-----Original Message-----
"But when you do that, it looks so...choppy on the page. There's ton's of empty white space!"
-- Hates Empty Space
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yes, it looks choppy on the page, but its Far More Important that there is absolutely no doubt in anyone's mind as to who is acting and who is speaking.
Another Example:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself," she told him, not bothering to be polite. He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt. She heard another voice.
"Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?" She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. She nearly recoiled in shock. Another handsome guy. He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you." He told her. She readjusted her bag and said.
"I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
By the way, once you separate each of your character's actions into new paragraphs and reconnect each character's dialogue to their actions, you won't need dialogue tags such as "said" because your character's actions are the identifiers for your dialogue.
With actions separated & dialogue attached.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"Don't help me. I'm fine by myself." She didn't bother to be polite.
He looked surprised and perhaps a little hurt.
A new voice called out. "Geez, you're pretty full of yourself, aren't you?"
She got to her feet and brushed herself off, glancing in the direction of the newcomer. Another handsome guy. She nearly recoiled in shock.
He crossed his arms over his chest. "He was just trying to help you."
She readjusted her bag. "I don't recall asking for help."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you truly loathe all that white space, then fill it in with more actions, description, and internal narration observations.
-----Original Message-----
But what about when someone is watching someone else, or feeling someone do something to them? -- Concerned about Observation
This seems perfectly fine, right?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her shake her butt.
He felt her skin move against his.
However, once you take this into account:
"…A new paragraph begins with Each Change of Speaker."
-- When a new character ACTS they're supposed to get a new paragraph.
Not so fine after all. You have two people acting in the same line -- in Both Cases.
The way around this little gem of a problem, is to SHOW the event by character rather than TELL it in one lump.
You begin by dividing the actions by Character:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
He watched her.
She shook her butt and her skin moved against his.
He felt it.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seems kind'a…short eh? That's because those lines TOLD you what happened, instead of Showing you what happened, so there are all kinds of details missing. Once you add enough details to paint a whole picture…
Adjusted:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From his seat at the edge of the stage, he watched her.
Tall, svelte, and in the skimpiest bathing suit he'd ever seen, she moved in close and shook her butt. The round, firm flesh jiggled enticingly against his face.
His cheeks were subjected to the most incredible, though slightly sweaty, facial massage ever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
KILL the Dialogue Tags. (Seriously.)
-- When you have an action with a line of dialogue, you don't need Dialogue tags, such as "he said" -- at all. You already know through their actions WHO is speaking.
Dialogue tags are only ever needed when you don't have any other way of identifying the speaker.
HOWEVER, if you have no other way of knowing who is speaking than dialogue tags, then you have committed the heinous crime of:
Dialogue in a Vacuum
- Also known as "talking heads syndrome."
A book with nothing but reams of dialogue marked only by dialogue tags means that while people may be talking, there is no PICTURE. The mental movie has stopped and only the sound-track is playing. Compare it to a Radio Show with no sound effects.
I don't know about you, but when I go to read a story, I want to SEE what I'm reading like a movie, not listen to a radio show.
Memorize this:
Readers always interpret what they read the way they want to see it -- unless you SHOW them what you envisioned.
In other words…
What CAN be misunderstood -- WILL be misunderstood.
Leave Nothing to Misinterpretation.
-- Readers will ALWAYS make whatever assumptions come to mind about what they are reading. When a reader realizes that what they thought was going on -- wasn't, they'll get confused, and occasionally pissed off.
Unmarked blocks of dialogue are painfully EASY to get lost in.
I remember reading one whole page of un-tagged action-less dialogue only to find out that I had two of the characters reversed. Did I reread that whole page to figure out what was going on? Hell no! I tossed the book across the room. (In fact, it's still on the floor gathering dust bunnies.)
"But, isn't that's what 'said' and other dialogue tags are for?"
Just for the record...
-- Using dialogue tags is Not against the rules. Dialogue tags are a perfectly viable way to identify who is speaking -- it just makes that part of the story BORING. (I don't know about you, but I won't read something that bores me.)
I choose to write my dialogue without using "said" unless I am actually describing a change in voice, tone, or volume in the same paragraph. And even then, I try to avoid them. I use the speaker's actions to define who is speaking to whom.
I use ACTION TAGS.
"What the heck is an Action Tag?"
BODY LANGUAGE
Language is Visual not just a bunch of words. Watch the average conversation between two people. 90% of that conversation isn't in what's spoken, it's in what they are DOING as they are speaking. It's in their Body Language. Body-language cues the reader as to what is going on in a character's head – in ADDITION to dialogue and internal narrative.
Action and body-language tags on dialogue are Not just for decoration.
-- Stories are Mental Movies you play in your imagination. I don't know about you, but I HATE to be interrupted when I'm involved in a good movie. If I have to stop and reread a section just to figure out what the heck is going on, I've been interrupted. One too many interruptions and I'm switching to another story -- with no intention of continuing with something that's just too much work to get through.
Action tags keep the mental Movie rolling and the MEANING of what is being said crystal clear. A small simple action can tell you right away, what's going through the speaker's head.
Don't just SAY it! ~ SHOW IT!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"I love you too." She rolled her eyes and sighed dramatically. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She dropped her chin and pouted. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She glared straight at him. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
"I love you too." She turned away and wiped the tear from her cheek. "Oh yes, I truly do love you."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
WHY I loathe the word "said".
- To be perfectly clear, it's not JUST the word 'said', I hate ALL Dialogue Tags inclusively. I utterly refuse to use them.
Why?
- Because they're wasteful. They clutter up dialogue while slowing down actions, and they use up word-count that could be far better used elsewhere.
I don't believe in putting anything in my fiction that isn't useful. If it doesn't add to the character or the plot, it gets eradicated. Dialogue tags are too easily replaced by something that actually adds to the story, such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character's opinions.
Just for the record, I write extremely dialogue-heavy fiction. When I find that a dialogue tag is indeed needed in my story to identify who is talking, I see it as a red flag that indicates that all action has come to a screeching halt. Nothing is Happening other than talking; also known as: Talking Heads Syndrome.
When that happens, I find some way to fill that space with something useful to the story such as an action, a facial expression, a spot of description, or a character's opinions -- ANYTHING other than a dialogue tag.
But those are MY feelings on the subject.
-- Your mileage may vary.
Dialogue tags ARE a legitimate form of sentence structure. When there is no other way to identify a speaker, dialogue tags are indeed a viable option.
What about Punctuation for Dialogue?
- Go here:
theeditorsblog.net/2010/12/08/…
Read that.
Paragraph Aesthetics
-----Original Message-----
"I suppose the issue I have is with the aesthetics of paragraphing. Though text is not comparable to a visual medium such as film, it is still something that we have to view with our eyes."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Actually, text aesthetics -- the way the words appear on the page -- seems to be a HUGE bone of contention.
-----Original Message-----
"...The way I see it, your example suggests that I break my text up into a lot of little paragraphs. Given this understanding, in a scene rich with alternating action, it looks like I'll be left with a lot of one-line paragraphs. ...I'd greatly appreciate it if you clarified this situation. I suppose that is the trouble with having to jot down the basics, you can't expand on the little details of the rule. ^_^
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Paragraph Aesthetics - Illustrated
-- The way a story appears on a standard 9.5 x 11 inch piece of paper is NOT the way to judge whether or not one's paragraphs are too long or too short. A story viewed on a browser page carries even less weight.
Why not?
-- Because Fiction is generally printed on pages HALF the size of a full sheet of paper. What appears to be a lot of short little paragraphs on the "internet page," are NOT so short or so little once you put them on the Printed page.
The standard sizes for printed Fiction are: paperback (4.25 x 6.75 inches), and trade paperback (5.5 x 8.25 inches.) Hard-cover books use the same size page as a Trade. Only coffee-table books possess printed pages anywhere near the size of a standard sheet of paper.
Visual Aids:
ALL examples are 12 pt. Times New Roman font.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Standard Paperback 6.75 x 4.25, 1/2 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
Trade paperback 5.5 x 8.25, 1/2 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
Standard sheet of paper 8.5" x 11", 1 inch margins:
i426.photobucket.com/albums/pp…
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Personally, I could care less what my text looks like on the page. As far as I'm concerned, making the story as clear and easy to read as possible is far more important to me than what the text looks like. If I have done my job well, no one will even notice the words - only the story unfolding in their imaginations.
As for internet reading, I'm completely baffled why anyone would care how it looks on the browser page. All you have to do is narrow the window and the text adjusts.
-----Original Message-----
"Also, I hope you don't mind, but did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice, or is there a handy guide I can employ? Obviously, I quite loyally follow Strunk and White, but I don't think it talks about this subject much. Is there a book that YOU use?"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Let's start here:
"...did you come up with the rules yourself, through experience and trial and error, publisher's advice...?"
YES - to all of the above, plus editor hounding and long chats with a number of extremely well-established fiction authors. In addition, I've read a crap-load of how-to books. I'm pretty sure I own, and have practically memorized, just about every book "Writer's Digest" has put out.
My writing advice posts are the results of taking all the info I'd crammed into my head and condensing it into small bite-sized, chewable, pieces that are easy to remember and much easier to apply. Rather than waste people's time on theory, I focus on application.
As for recommended reads...
-- Unfortunately, there is no one guide that shows it all. Not One. However, there are two books I can't praise highly enough. As far as I'm concerned, they are VITAL reading for fiction writing.
SCENE & STRUCTURE by Jack. M. Bickham
THE WRITER'S JOURNEY by Christopher Vogler
-- (Google is your friend.)
There are lots of other books I could recommend, but these are the two "Must Haves" if an author really, REALLY wants to write fiction well.
Enjoy!
Related content
Comments: 337
BlackNailpolishDays In reply to ??? [2010-05-26 21:56:37 +0000 UTC]
Great stuff. Very helpful, thanks!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to BlackNailpolishDays [2010-05-26 23:46:27 +0000 UTC]
Excellent! My pleasure.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Tannalein In reply to ??? [2010-05-23 00:59:23 +0000 UTC]
After reading this tutorial, I went through the books on my bookshelf and from 11 books by 11 best selling authors, only in one of them I haven't found actions from two characters in one paragraph, and I don't see it damaging the clarity of their writing one bit. Yes, I know you said "Oh but NoraNobertStephenKingAnneRice did it! Why can't I?" but who is using this rule then? And didn't Stephen King write several books on writing?
I'm not saying I didn't like your tutorial. Very good rules, great examples. Most of it I knew already, but knowing the rules and knowing how to use them are two different things . I write terribly.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to Tannalein [2010-05-23 02:57:27 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you liked my tutorial, despite the fact that few published authors actually follow these rules.
...who is using this rule then?
Not many because it isn't commonly known. My editors know it, but then my editor from New York is John Scoglimiglio, editor in chief of Kensington. My other editors are from ebook publishers, so I doubt you've heard of them.
As an aside, Ebook publishers are in direct competition with NY publishers, so they tend to be far more attentive about the editing. It's a professional pride thing. *wink*
And didn't Stephen King write several books on writing?
Published authors, especially those that are well known, are Always asked to put out a writing book. (Even I was asked.) I happen to own Mr. King's writing book, Poppy Z Brite's, and Dear R Koontz's, to name just a few. There is not one thing about sentence structure or even head-hopping in any of them. They concentrate on plotting, inspiration, formatting, and the business of writing. The only book that I have that covers sentence structure and paragraphing at all is "Scene and Structure" by Jack M Bickham, and he deals mostly with Action / Reaction. (Excellent book! I highly recommend it.)
...I don't see it damaging the clarity of their writing one bit.
That's fine. However, I Do. I find it extremely annoying when I have to reread a sentence over and over to figure out what's happening. I even ran a poll recently and next to spelling errors, confusing sentence structure was the most common complaint by readers. Seriously, it ranks #2.
Sadly, my experience has been that New York publishers care very little about the Content and 'editing,' more often then than not, means 'typo check'.
I have been extremely lucky in my editors, NY and my ebook publishers. I have learned a great deal from them and that's what I hope to share with my tutorials.
...knowing the rules and knowing how to use them are two different things
I'm hoping to fix that by making my tutorials as straightforward and easy to grasp as possible. Writing a story shouldn't be any more complicated than it already is.
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Tannalein In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-23 06:07:43 +0000 UTC]
I was merely wondering who's making the rules. It's weird to have a rule just a few people even know about. I'm not saying it's a bad rule, or a good one, it's just strange to me, that's all. Maybe I'm taking it too literally, let me quote a passage to see if I understood it right:
"So where the f**k is the crew?" asked Martin when they were assembled on the foredeck. They had taken their single-file tour through the narrow corridors and cabins, down stairways more ladder than stairs, and through cabins not much bigger than the built-in bunks they contained...
So, does this rule apply here? Should the first sentence be separated from the rest of the paragraph? It does nothing for clarity, it just breaks the flow of the text.
It's not fun for me either to have to read a sentence over and over again, but it doesn't necessarily make it unclear if it's all in the same paragraph. Although it would probably make it look ugly . Generally, I do agree with this rule, but I'm gonna use it more like a guideline than a rule.
There's nothing wrong with your tutorials, they're more than clear. I'm the one that keeps making the same mistakes over and over again, even though I should know better.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to Tannalein [2010-05-23 17:10:19 +0000 UTC]
I was merely wondering, who's making the rules?
-- The publishers -- and they change them all the damned time! *sigh* Just as an example, the comma rules I was taught back when I was first published in 1980, are Not The Same as they are now. Now-a-days, they skip them in places I was told they were supposed to be. (I found out when I started getting red marks to pull them out.) At the same time, Head-Hopping has become a serious No-No where it used to be just fine.
It's weird to have a rule just a few people even know about.
-- According to what I'm hearing from my editors, it's Deliberate. Apparently, since the computer has become so widespread, writers have become a dime a dozen. They've been tightening the rules to shave off the bottom layer, so to speak. In other words, if you don't know the rules, you get rejected -- and they DON'T tell you Why you've been rejected! In fact, they treat these sudden rule changes like frikken state secrets.
...does this rule apply here?
~~~~~~~~~~
"So where the f**k is the crew?" asked Martin when they were assembled on the foredeck. They had taken their single-file tour through the narrow corridors and cabins, down stairways more ladder than stairs, and through cabins not much bigger than the built-in bunks they contained...
~~~~~~~~~~
The problem with this paragraph is NOT that you have two people operating in the same paragraph, but that it's written Backwards. The dialogue should have come LAST because it was the last thing that actually happened.
Actual Order of Events:
~~~~~~~~~~
They took their single-file tour through the narrow corridors and cabins, down stairways more ladder than stairs, and through cabins not much bigger than the built-in bunks they contained...
They assembled on the foredeck.
"So where the f**k is the crew?" asked Martin.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
Should the first sentence be separated from the rest of the paragraph?
-- Yes, and needs to go at the END because that is when that line was spoken.
Generally, I do agree with this rule, but I'm gonna use it more like a guideline than a rule.
-- Be my guest. Write the way you like. My rules were meant for those seriously interested in being published. If you're just writing to please yourself and your personal readers, don't worry about it. As long as your readers are happy, that should be all that matters.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Tannalein In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-24 13:41:28 +0000 UTC]
Wow, I had no idea it was like a secret war out there. To be changing grammar as they see fit... I mean, language is a living thing that evolves with time, but it shouldn't be changed artificially, on a whim. I'm glad about floating heads, but commas are there for a purpose.
It's a shame that today, when original ideas are scarce, maybe even impossible, stories are judged not by content but by style (I don't think this falls under grammar - rejecting something because of bad grammar I'd understand). Style and grammar can both be fixed, but no good grammar could save a bad story.
Order of events - I always thought that was part of the style of the writer, since I've often seen it in books. Too many rules will make everyone write in the same way, and that would just make things boring .
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to Tannalein [2010-05-24 18:02:03 +0000 UTC]
Wow, I had no idea it was like a secret war out there.
-- I didn't either until I started getting pressure from my agent. "Why are you telling people all your secrets? Why are you talking to other authors? Why are you sharing your ideas? What if they write a better story than you? Are you trying to make rivals?"
My agent and I do Not see eye to eye.
...stories are judged not by content but by style...
-- They're not judged by content OR style. New York publishers judge an author by how FAST they can write them--not how good they are. This is why bad grammar is showing up in Published books. An author is judged--and paid--by their Production Speed, as in, how many books they can pump out for One series. Vaguely good is good enough. I KNOW you've seen it on the bookshelf yourself.
Style and grammar can both be fixed, but no good grammar could save a bad story.
-- CORRECT!
Order of events - I always thought that was part of the style of the writer, since I've often seen it in books?
-- Whoever told you that needs a kick in the teeth. That's not Style -- that's Sloppy Writing and Poor Editing. Read: Scene and Structure by Jack M Bickham. It's a Writer's Digest book.
Too many rules will make everyone write in the same way, and that would just make things boring.
-- If that was true, then we wouldn't have standardized SPELLING. Grammar, sentence structure, and word choice has Nothing to do with how good a story is. Think...! If you translate a story into a foreign language, Every Single Word--and the order they are written in--is Replaced and switched around to suit the grammar rules of the new language. If the story is good, no matter how the paragraphs and words are changed, it will still be Good.
Homer's Odyssey was originally in Greek. Do you honestly think they kept the sentence structure of Ancient Greek when they translated it into English? Of course not. In fact, the Names were Anglicized too.
Herakles --> Hercules
Another example, Japanese sentences are written: Subject-Object-Verb, and only in Present Tense.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jack, store, go.
The Japanese also change English names into Japanese ones.
Light --> Raito
Robbie --> Ravi --> Lavi
Mighty --> Maito (They don't have adjectives the way we do, so the 'y' was dropped.)
Sentence structure and word choice ISN'T style. How events unfold in a story, how the characters act to those events, and how those events conclude is Style.
It's not HOW you say it, but WHAT you are saying because WHAT you are saying can leap any language barrier. HOW you say it, what words you use, Can't.
See?
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coregan In reply to ??? [2010-05-20 01:39:30 +0000 UTC]
An excellent primer! I'm familiar with most of the rules that you presented, but I really like the "unnecessary dialogue tag" lesson. I love dialogue but I hate writing it because I am constantly trying to find synonyms for "said" because I really hate "said" too. I'd rather write actions, and it is encouraging to know that I can eliminate "said" altogether with a few good actions.
It's funny, I have been dropping dialogue tags when the dialogue gets intense or there is a lot of back-and-forth but I still fall back on them when things are quiet because I think they're necessary. "It's so dull, I should remind you who's speaking." So, I'm halfway there...
By the way, what about text formatting? In a recent story of mine, one of the characters shouts and I emphasized his dialogue in bold characters. Apart from adding the "he shouted" (which I now realize was unnecessary) is there anything wrong with this?
There's also thinking monologue. I use italics to represent this since this is how I've seen it in books. Do you have any suggestions to improve this?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to coregan [2010-05-20 02:13:42 +0000 UTC]
I loathe dialogue tags. I find them utterly useless.
Bold can indeed be used for shouting, so can Capitols. However, according to my editors, the simple exclamation point is enough to indicate a shout.
...thinking monologue. I use italics to represent this since this is how I've seen it in books. Do you have any suggestions to improve this?
Nope. You got it right. Italics is what you're supposed to use for direct thoughts. Take a look at one of the two stories I have posted and you'll see it. Oh, and in case you'd like to know, Italics with Quotation Marks indicates Telepathic thoughts.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
coregan In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-20 03:15:20 +0000 UTC]
I think I'm mostly there, I just have to lose some dialogue luggage. More action, less "said". I can live with that!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Gentleman-shadow In reply to ??? [2010-05-19 07:22:50 +0000 UTC]
Oooo! Very useful indeed...
In the stories I've written so far, I've avoided dialogue for the most part. This shall have to change now that I have a guide to go by.
A good, no-nonsense guide for dialogue- I love it. Bravo to you for creating something so helpful.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to Gentleman-shadow [2010-05-19 09:24:10 +0000 UTC]
My pleasure.
-- I like helping my fellow writers.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Eon-Zone In reply to ??? [2010-05-19 01:51:37 +0000 UTC]
Wow! I love this! I'll download this!! Thanks for sharing!
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Eon-Zone In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-19 02:40:28 +0000 UTC]
Yup! I'm writing stories now. I usually write poems though. And I'm glad I found your page. It'll help a lot.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
OokamiKasumi In reply to Eon-Zone [2010-05-19 02:44:52 +0000 UTC]
Yay! I like being helpful. *grin*
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Eon-Zone In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-19 02:47:31 +0000 UTC]
^^ Me too. And that's so kind of you.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Eon-Zone [2010-05-19 02:50:28 +0000 UTC]
I'm not really that kind. Helping people improve their writing means I get more Quality stories to read. *grin*
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Eon-Zone In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-19 02:58:52 +0000 UTC]
Whoah!! That's... kinda selfish... But I love it!! LOL.. And, I just suggested you for DD. I wish you make it. I love your works. They're easy to read and helpful!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Eon-Zone [2010-05-19 06:06:36 +0000 UTC]
Yep! I'm just as selfish as anyone else.
-- Just...sneakier about it. *wink*
Thank you for the suggestion! However, I doubt it'll happen. These people don't see writing as an art. They certainly don't see tutorials that way.
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Eon-Zone In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-19 10:12:17 +0000 UTC]
Yup, there are some who think that literature is not art. That's so not true!!
But, I hope you make it. At least there are still people out there who believe in literature. Thumbs up!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Eon-Zone [2010-05-19 16:05:36 +0000 UTC]
Thank you for your faith sweety. *smooch*
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liquid-etherealism In reply to ??? [2010-05-19 01:17:39 +0000 UTC]
Um, wow. This was so much NEEDED info for me. And on a topic I thought about today! Total fav!
Thanks for sharing!!
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OokamiKasumi In reply to liquid-etherealism [2010-05-19 02:28:28 +0000 UTC]
LOL! I'm thrilled I could provide what you were looking for.
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leyghan In reply to ??? [2010-05-18 18:59:05 +0000 UTC]
An excellent, excellent guide. I fall prey to the dialogue tags from time to time, this will help keep me in check.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to leyghan [2010-05-18 19:13:26 +0000 UTC]
Thank you so much!
-- I try to offer 'useful' advice.
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Caity-Kitten In reply to ??? [2010-05-18 16:38:20 +0000 UTC]
You've raised some very valid pints and looked ito sme very common mistakes people make while writing. I like teh way you've worded this, because you amde it fun and its easy to stay interested because it's written in a way that doesn't bore us. Goood job ^^
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OokamiKasumi In reply to Caity-Kitten [2010-05-18 17:14:51 +0000 UTC]
Thank you!
-- I discovered a long time ago that people remember things much better if you make it Funny--or at least sarcastic. *grin*
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Caity-Kitten In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-19 16:49:21 +0000 UTC]
That is very very true
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rlkirkland In reply to ??? [2010-05-18 14:34:10 +0000 UTC]
Very nice info for a prose hack.
Great examples.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to rlkirkland [2010-05-18 16:10:59 +0000 UTC]
I'm glad you liked it!
-- Experience is a harsh mistress -- even more so than gravity. *wink*
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OokamiKasumi In reply to rlkirkland [2010-05-18 20:06:01 +0000 UTC]
Just can't avoid it. *sigh*
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RedSky-atNight In reply to ??? [2010-05-18 06:21:41 +0000 UTC]
The timing of my coming upon this tutorial is certainly fortunate; I have for the last week been pouring over grammar and punctuation rules in an effort to create a solid foundation upon which to begin writing. Paragraphing has been a point of consternation and so I thank you kindly for your advice.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to RedSky-atNight [2010-05-18 16:12:23 +0000 UTC]
My pleasure! I'm thrilled I could provide a bit of insight you could use.
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The-Seventh-Sage In reply to ??? [2010-05-18 05:56:40 +0000 UTC]
There are certainly some things in here that I don't agree with, but why focus on the bad when there are other things I do agree with. For one, dialogue tags. I don't use them a lot, hardly ever actually, but once in a while. I only like them if they are significant. I don't like the word "said" either.
I don't like being confused either, but that should be a given. But when I have to read someone five, six, seven times, and I still don't get it, that's when I'll just give up and not read any more (unless I am very much into the story and it doesn't seem very important).
I too only put important details into my stories.
And paragraph aesthetics. I just very much agree with you on that.
I think this is just wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to The-Seventh-Sage [2010-05-18 16:17:09 +0000 UTC]
Everyone's writing style is different, so of course, some things will work for you and some won't. I'm just glad that the bulk of this will. *grin*
I think this is just wonderful. Thank you for taking the time to write it.
My pleasure. I like helping my fellow writers, especially on tricky things like this. I remember all too well how difficult it was to figure this out on my own.
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The-Seventh-Sage In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-18 16:30:14 +0000 UTC]
Well, thank you again. I was just writing my story and thinking "does this go in a new paragraph? Will this be too confusing?" and then this piece showed up . It was very helpful.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to The-Seventh-Sage [2010-05-18 16:39:00 +0000 UTC]
LOL! Divine intervention, or just your guardian muse looking out for you?
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The-Seventh-Sage In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-18 17:09:57 +0000 UTC]
Definitely my "muse". They are SO good to me .
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OokamiKasumi In reply to The-Seventh-Sage [2010-05-18 17:15:23 +0000 UTC]
Lucky... I usually have to hunt mine down and beat it with a club. *grin*
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The-Seventh-Sage In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-18 17:16:12 +0000 UTC]
That is terrible! You should get a new one . One who is alway there for you, even before you need them
.
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OokamiKasumi In reply to The-Seventh-Sage [2010-05-18 17:24:28 +0000 UTC]
That would be nice... However, I think I scare them off. I ride my muses Very Hard. (Pun intended.)
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The-Seventh-Sage In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-18 18:49:17 +0000 UTC]
Heheh. Well, I'm sure there is one out there that can take it .
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OokamiKasumi In reply to The-Seventh-Sage [2010-05-18 19:13:49 +0000 UTC]
One can hope... *whine*
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The-Seventh-Sage In reply to OokamiKasumi [2010-05-18 19:38:05 +0000 UTC]
You'll find them, I'm sure of it .
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OokamiKasumi In reply to The-Seventh-Sage [2010-05-18 19:43:50 +0000 UTC]
I have the bear traps ready!
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