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Paperiapina β WP's Dragon Guide, part 01
Published: 2009-01-05 13:18:38 +0000 UTC; Views: 14122; Favourites: 277; Downloads: 170
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WARNING: Huuuuuuge file ahead!EDIT:
Part 2: [link]
/EDIT
I mentioned in my latest journal, that I've been working on a dragon related rant-tutorial-ish-guide-sorta-thingy, and this is the beginning of it. This contains the first five pages of my ... umh, thinking? It's just a start, so far I have made 14 pages, but these are the only ones that have been approved by my dragon specialist, Alchi.
The future parts will include thoughts, rants, tips and advice about how I think a good dragons are made.
Although, this thing only covers the usual fantasy dragons, the type known as western type, and it's not valid in making eastern dragons. (Comparing western dragons and eastern dragons is like comparing a lizard and a wind. Western dragons are usually reptile-like winged beasts who spit fire or some similar element (ice, lightning, poison, acid, and I'm pretty sure some people have invented even more of these) where as the deepest essence of an eastern dragon is wind. Eastern dragons are the spirits of rivers and winds, and thus have as much need for wings as clouds do.)
If you have any questions or wishes for what I should include in the following parts, let me know and I'll check what I can do to help you with them.
NOTE: This is only a start, I'm just clearing my throat in here. This first part contains the first five of AT LEAST fourteen pages, probably more to come (as I really REALLY want to poke the idea of dragonriders around, and possibly some other ideas too). So, there will be more. You won't get away from my ramblings this easy.
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Comments: 92
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Have you ever heard of the show Dragons: A Fantasy Made Real? The CG in that show was annoying with the wings but it argued that dragons could have had flight bladders; filled with hydrogen. And subsequently chewed on platinum because platinum acts as a catalyst for hydrogen creating fire. Kind of silly really but the flight bladder argument seems neat; have you heard of it?
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Oh, wow! O.O No, I hadn't heard of it before, is that a TV-show? Sounds pretty good idea, actually. I must check if I can find it online somewhere.
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Yeah, it was shown on Animal Planet a few years ago. I'm afraid it's the kind of thing you feel incredibly nerdy to watch but kinda like it anyway. I have a problem with the CG of the wings (doesn't really seem accurate) but I like how they portrayed water serpents and asian dragons (they portray them with vestigial wings that the asian dragon could use for short glides and the serpent could use as fins in the water.)
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Yay for logic. Looking forward to some more of this. I have friend who will like it as well so I'll link her over.
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Great tutorial! I can sure think of a few ways this will help me!
And, just a suggestion, but maybe you could include something about the tail in the feature tutorial parts? I mean, a bird needs his tail to steer, so logically, a dragon would, too, right? But if it's too long, then it would weight them down, and they would need bigger wings. But if it's too short, then they would need wings to fit the tail...(Or I might just be a complete idiot and think that the tail is meant for something when it really isn't 
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Thanks for the tip! ^^ I'll make some research about the dragon tails (and tails of airborn real-life animals) and see if I can include that in the guide too.
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Haha! I just had a similar rant on Pegasus wings! Yours is more in depth than mine though XD
I look forward to seeing more of this!
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The pectoral muscles of a bird do not reach their vent, no. But everything else is awesomely stated!
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Oh, thanks for pointing that out! I must do more research on that and correct this. Misleading people isn't my top priority.
Thank yous! ^^
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Very nice. c: This should help me quite a bit with my own dragon character, though, in general, I tend not to do such skinny little sticks expanding away from the dragon. Ick.
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I love this. It both gave me quite a few laughs and it's actually true. I can't wait to read more of it
I'm too always annoyed when dragons are so unrealistic because of their tiny tiny wings 
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I agree. ^^ Magic can be a good reason for "why" in many things, but to make it beliveable, it requires quite a lot of explaining. I personally find it a lot easier to just draw the dragons a bit bigger wings, and give them a bit of muscles to move those wings.
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Finally a rational explanation on the whole wings issue. I absolutely agree with you, even fantasy creatures need a proper amount of realism to make them believable. Magic is just a feeble excuse Xp
I don't know if you're going to cover this but another interesting topic would be what are the features that make a dragon. There are so many designs out there that's hard to determine when its just another dragon, a hybrid or something completely different
Personally I have a pretty broad opinion, but I've seen some people who refuse to accept mammalian and other variations as actual dragons (even though snake type ones are, according to medieval sources and prior) > >
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My opinion is that dragon is so broad a description that nearly anything can fall within the category. there will be purists, but i've found that for the most part they can be ignored.
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I agree, but I still find it a pertinent question, especially when there's a dragon specialist involved
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No fear, my specialist is a very broiad-minded person. ^^ I really couldn't list all the features that frame the term "dragon", as I am a person who once created a whole race of mammal-dragons just because somebody once said to me that it can't be done. So, I'm not going to use this guide series of mine to limit the possibilities, but to eΓncrease them. If someone wants to make "a proper dragon", they can go buy the Dragonomicon (the dragon guide book for Dungeons & Dragons universe).
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Lol, now you're talking my language (typos included, I do those too) XD
I had that same reaction a couple of times when people told me dragons are A, B and C, but can never be D or E. But some of those claims were absurd, because I've seen medieval and greek examples saying otherwise
That's why I started researching on old mythology and lore, along with existing animal features and physics. Ignorance is no excuse Xp
I think it should be stated in your tutorial about the variety being too broad to be contained. Personally the idea of those "whiskers" behind the ears never occurred to me
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(Ugh, forgive my typos.)
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ah, that is true, to specialize in something you first would have to define it.
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aah yes the incorrect wings iv seen have disgusted me but I have also seen some people do very very well at making them look anatomically correct.
Great tutorial and info! hoping for more!
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Thank yous! ^^ I think that even in making fantasy creatures, it's important to make them appear beliveable. *nod nod*
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I totally agree. It really bugs me when someone makes a fanasty species (or draws a fantasy animal) and don't even TRY to make it work. Yes, I know it's impossible to think of everything, and sometimes we don't even know how things work in real animals, let alone one that is made up, but it doesn't mean you shouldn't try. >.< Saying it's magic, isn't good enough! >8D
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Good words! ^^
"Take liberties with reality but make it appear beliveable." Quote from the book Animator's Survival Kit, and I personally use it as a guideline for my own brainworking. ^^ Beliveability is pretty important in fantasy too, many people just seem to forget about it.
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That's a nice quote, I'll have to remember it. ^^
Yes, when I think back on all my favorite fantasy stories, a large part of them was that I could believe it happening.
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yeah, my dad would always build model gliders and airplanes, so when i drew dragons, he would look over and say, "those could never stay in the air!" His nitpicking about the laws of physics taught me to draw wings!
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Oh! It would be awesomely handy to know about how the gliders and airplanes work! I have only included flying animals as a reference for this guide, since I know pretty much nothing about man-made flying things.
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oh could you please iclude the lung's amount of toes? it dtermines weather or not is a chinese imperial or japanese and did you knwo that if you were cught wearing a robe w/ an imperial on it you were killed? please include that! it reallllyyyyy bugs me when ppl are ignorant of the fact thank you
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I'm sorry, but I decided to leave the eastern dragons out of this guide, at least for now. I know way too little about them, so I don't dare to poke the subject I'm not familiar with. I don't want to tell lies to people, so I need to do a lot more research before I can sink my teeth into that issue.
But judging from your comment, you know much more about them. How about you doing a lung guide of your own? ^^
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the dragon and the george, good book, but you cant go around judging dragons by a single book you read that was published in what the 70's or 80's i can remember............ anyways, yes i hate the small wings, but your errrrrrr rant persay hasnt even concidered the fact that dragons could have had light hollow bones and perhaps fly like a hummingbird. i have even heard theorys of dragons keeping aloft via the build up of gasses that would be produced by the fire namely helium ..... do you know what keeps balloons foating? helium sooo maybe concider these theories as well feel free to ask anything about dragons you wish to hear. i firmly belive that they existed at some point ill explaint that later.
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Thanks for pointing out the bone issue! I will get into that in the future parts of this guide. ^^
But I don't think dragons could fly like hummingbirds. Try doing a test: Go into a swimming pool and sink your whole arm underwater. Now try to flap your hand bending from the wrist as fast as you can. Fairly easy, but then try the same with your whole arm, bending it from shoulder instead of wrist. A lot harder. Hummingbirds can flap their wings very rapidly because they are small, bigger birds like eagles are unable to do it, and dragons usually are a lot bigger. The hummingbird way of flying is extremely energy-consuming, they must eat at least their own bodyweight of food every day to simply keep themselves alive, and they only eat flower nectar (is that the right word? Sorry, my dictionary is lost) since it's the only natural food source available that contains enough sugar to keep them going (Sugar=energy). The biggest species of hummingbirds aren't bigger than your hand, since if they were any bigger they couldn't fly like hummingbirds, and the only way they can survive in their mountainy habitat is that they hibernate through every night. I can imagine that a small fairy-dragon could probably fly like a humming bird, but not the bigger ones.
And for the gas-issue, how do you get helium from burning? o.o Burning is defined in chemistry as a process where matter combines with oxygen, and helium isn't a combined subject, it's an element. I do know that sun maked helium with a process that looks like burning, but it's a fusion reaction, and even Jupiter, the largest planet of our soler system is too small to have it's own fusion reaction, and I can't imagine that to be part of a dragon's anatomy. Can you explain it to me? I'd sure love to know. ^^
Helium has another thing that doesn't quite explain dragons having smaller wings. I saw an episode of Mythbusters once, where they tried to lift a two-year-old human toddler by helium balloons, and they needed pretty much like 500 helium balloons to lift the toddler for few inches off the ground (the balloon blob was HUGE!). So, helium isn't the most effective gas in my opinion.
Although, I think that gaving gas inside their bodies isn't actually bad idea, but I'd personally go for hydrogen instead of helium. It can be got from water (as water is, in chemistry-language di-hydrogen-oxide), it's lighter than helium, and it's also easily flammable if it gets mixed with oxygen, so it could be used also to produce the fiery breath.
There were just my opinions, but I hope my explanations made at least some sence.
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Nice; that sort of totally non-functional wing has always bothered me, too.
And to the people who say "It's magic, it doesn't matter" - unless you've decided that the entire race of dragons was made by a mad wizard, the wings still need to make sense. If they're just there to steer, fine - make wings that could actually work for that. And magic (presumably) isn't a completely limitless resource - so if you can make wings that work a bit better, and don't require as much magic to keep the thing flying, then do that!
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Heavily breaking the laws of physics and ignoring them is just plain stupid (Not knowing is a good excuse, but it's not an obstacle that cannot be conquered), and I personally think that when that kind of artist gets caught of it and excuses themself by "It's magic!" is not good. It always gives me the expression that they say between the lines something like: "Screw you! You're too stupid to know about it anyway, so why should I bother".
I really hope that I can help people in their quest for beliveable dragons with this guide. ^^
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RAWR! Thank you! xD Good to know I'm not the only one who hates seeing dragons with tiny wings! D:
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I really do see the point you're getting at, that most dragons would never get off the ground...but, to be honest, a dragon is such an anatomical mess of an animal that it's a fairly minor point - I mean, seriously...to have four legs and wings effectively means it has six limbs, sooo...where do the second pair attach? Onto the spine? The ribcage? A second pelvis? If they don't attach properly, they could be four times the size they'd theoretically need to be and still not work: grafting two extra limbs onto something doesn't really help it much!
So, whilst I completely agree with you that wings and their attached muscles need to be bigger, it's not a big deal compared to other anatomical problems.
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Simply combine the shoulder blades of a bat into the mixture :0 The blades sit flat along the back much like ours do:0 Of course the ribcage will need to take on the shape of the average birds ribcage including its sternum :3 All thats needed is for the rib cage to be slightly wider and flatter at the top allowing room for movement and such. That leaves plenty of space to graft in normal quad forelimbs :3 That is if it is a western dragon body base :3
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Oh, yes, that sure is a big argument. I have poked that subject in the pages that will follow, and I hope it makes sense. I still have to ask my dragon specialist whether I'm going into right direction with it. The reason for this guide-thingie is not just rant about what's wrong, but also make suggestions about how to fix those wrong parts.
Oh, I'd sure love to hear more! ^^ Is there other things about the dragon anatomy than attaching the wings? Should I try to solve other problems? I actually do this kind of anatomical research for fun, so some new points of view that would make me to thing something a bit more would be great!
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Well, I'm training to be a vet, so animal anatomy is a speciality!
Another feature of dragons that may provoke argument is whether they are warm-blooded: quadrupeds are highly efficient on the ground, but flying would use absolutely massive amounts of energy. If, like other reptiles, they needed to bask in the sun before moving, they'd be limited to extremely sunny climates (so, not Wales xD). If they were warmblooded, like birds, then they'd have to eat ridiculous amounts to fuel themselves. In order to keep a balanced food chain, therefore, they'd have to be solitary and far apart, since a pack (flock? herd? do dragons have a collective noun?) of dragons would quickly run out of prey.
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Warm blood is a requirement for flying, period. Even pterosaurs were warm blooded (this has been proved with time) so it's kinda dumb discussing if dragons were warm blooded or not. Like you said, it requires a lot of energy to fly, it would be foolish to think a cold blooded animal could fly.
Only people who like to do "PREEEETTTTYANDAWESOOOOME DRAGONS" would even bother to argument over that, for us, animals specialists (like you and me, except I'm a biology student 
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It's possible that small, cold-blooded dragons would still be able to glide to a certain extent, if their wings were large enough - there are, after all, frogs and even snakes that can make extended leaps between trees with the aid of skin-flaps as mini-parachutes. Little arborial dragons could probably get away with being cold-blooded in hot climates provided they didn't intend to do any serious flying, just a bit of tree-hopping now and then.
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