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poderiu — Stop Eating Animals
Published: 2011-01-30 19:32:27 +0000 UTC; Views: 4068; Favourites: 22; Downloads: 243
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I agree, and I will watch that video (not right now, I'm sorry)
I think that probably you share my point of view if you where born in a small town like mine, where animals are an important part of everybody's life, each family has their rabbits, and pigs, maybe a goat or a cow.
For sure I know what kind of people are the big corporations, so if you want to fight in that way go on, i'm just telling that I don't support people to refuses meat... is not so bad, well... there is much shit behind the meat business, but as in most of them, information needs to be spreaded and people needs to choose better to who are giving their money
I will tell you tomorrow what I think about the video
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I do know that local animals production envolve many different conceptions about animals by the producers and consumers and the impacts just don´t have nothing to do with the massive animal production. Please, do watch the video. IT is not easy to see it all, but is a docummentary and deals with hidden facts. cheers
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I love discussions and more if they end with a documentary hehe, I enjoy documentaries so don't worry, I will watch it all
My pleasure, See you!
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And this is why I finally went vegetarian
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...your Barbara Kruger-styled cow is great too!
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It was an ideia by a feminist vegan friend of mine named VGN.
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Then they shouldn't taste so damn good!
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Maybe you should eat dogs, cats, daulphins and whales... there are people who find them "damn good"!
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good, but not ethical.
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yeah, 'cause ethics SO apply to animals
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If animals feel just like you and me (we all are sentient)it´s fair that ethics should be applied to all species.
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except that animals don't treat each other like you and I do 
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1. Animals do have social relations and they do feel not only psysical pain, but emotional pain. E.g: When a cow baby is taken away from the mother cow in order for the industry swipe the cow´s milk, the cow and the baby they do have manifestations of emotional pain. Animals don´t need to express verbal communication like we do in order to communicate emotions like pleasure, pain, family atachment, etc.
2. It´s not up to you to decide how a cow, a chicken, a pig, etc. should be raised and killed. And if you think nature is cruel, just go and check it out how are the corps you eat raised in farms, for scientific experiments, for fur, for circus, etc. You can see this documentary "Earthlings" [link]
3. Hurting animals (a)is not the only argument. Not eating meat is (b) not contributing to a constant increasing envirnomental degradation; (c)is contributing for a better resources usage (including water, soil, corn, soya, oil, etc.) e.g. if the 2 billion people from the most developed countries that eat meat reduce their consumption in 70%, the other 3 million in starvation would have enough vegetables, corn, soya, etc. in order to have a helthier life; and (d) not eating meat and have a vegan/vegetarian is a way of improving human health (e.g. the consumption of meat and milk is associated with cancer, strokes, heart desieses, and other serious health problems)
3.1. I can very easily prove to you the facts a) b) c) and d) with links studies that our media and schools just don´t tell us.
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1) Again we still see in nature of other animals going to cruel lengths and sometimes not merely to survive. I.E. A pack of wolves that kill a deer but don't eat much of it. I don't understand why we as humans have to put ourselves above that.
2) And although testing on an animal for scientific/experimental purposes is unethical I would still argue it's FAR more unethical to substitute those animals with humans. The lesser of two evils...
3) then I think this argument is more inclined to socioeconomic influences of how markets work and how we tick. We did develop canines for a reason, which is why we still enjoy eating meat...we are inclined to meet those drives. And farmers can make more of a profit selling meat rather than other crops and as long as there's a populace wanting to eat it then they will make money. And it's merely cultural as well, India for the most part doesn't eat cows...but as for the US it's ingrained in us to have that steak or ribs...etc.
I'd much rather take option 3 as a reason, but I do love eating fish so I don't think I could ever go vegetarian
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Deer? We are talking about intense production of meat in livestock where domesticated animals are raised and you talk about deers? Do you think the animals you eat are in the wild? If you think so you just have no idea about the corps you eat.
Canines? Gorilas have more canines that humans and they are strong and helthy vegetarian animals. Once again you bring arguments without any sense. And you think me and other vegan people didn´t like meat, milk, egs, fish, etc, before I stop eating them? Is it so hard for you to acknowledge that being vegan is not about taste but all about ethics?
I will have the work and show you step by step the consequences of livestock industry and I will hope you will not avoid them and pretend I didn´t mention them:
"Meat and increasing envirnomental degradation"
Livestock's Long Shadow - Environmental Issues and Options report from the United Nations states that the "livestock sector is one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global. The findings of this report suggest that it should be a major policy focus when dealing with problems of land degradation, (...) and air pollution, water shortage and water pollution, and loss of biodiversity."
Based on this report, senior U.N. Food and Agriculture Organization official Dr. Henning Steinfeld stated that the meat industry is “one of the most significant contributors to today’s most serious environmental problems" and that "urgent action is required to remedy the situation.
Following a Life Cycle Analysis approach, the report evaluates "that livestock are responsible for 18 percent of greenhouse gas emissions, a bigger share than that of transport."[3]. GHG emissions arise from feed production (eg chemical fertilizer production, deforestation for pasture and feed crops, cultivation of feed crops, feed transport and soil organic matter losses in pastures and feed crops), animal production (eg enteric fermentation and methane and nitrous oxide emissions from manure) and as a result of the transportation of animal products. Following this approach the report estimates that livestock contributes to about 9% of total anthropogenic carbon dioxide emissions, but 37% of methane and 65% of nitrous oxide emissions. Along the animal food chain, main sources of emissions are:
* Land use and land use change: 2.5 Giga tonnes CO2 equivalent; including forest and other natural vegetation replaced by pasture and feed crop in the Neotropics (CO2) and carbon release from soils such as pasture and arable land dedicated to feed production (CO2)
* Feed Production (except carbon released from soil): 0.4 Giga tonnes CO2 equivalent, including fossil fuel used in manufacturing chemical fertilizer for feed crops (CO2) and chemical fertilizer application on feedcrops and leguminous feed crop (N2O, NH3)
* Animal production: 1.9 Giga tonnes CO2 equivalent, including enteric fermentation from ruminants (CH4) and on-farm fossil fuel use (CO2)
* Manure Management: 2.2 Giga tonnes CO2 equivalent, mainly through manure storage, application and deposition (CH4, N2O, NH3)
* Processing and international transport: 0.03 Giga tonnes CO2 equivalent
Against this is the CO2 absorbed from the atmosphere by the grass consumed by cattle. A cow eats 7 kg of carbon per day in grass and other plant-derived nutrition. The same grass absorbed 25 kg of CO2 from the atmosphere while growing. Annually that is 9 tonnes. The estimated 1 billion cattle in the world therefore eat grass that absorbed 9 Gigatonnes of CO2 from the atmosphere while growing"
Being vegetarian is a more sustainable way of life because it contributes
"for a better resources usage (including water, soil, corn, soya, oil, etc.) e.g. if the 2 billion people from the most developed countries that eat meat reduce their consumption in 70%, the other 3 million in starvation would have enough vegetables, corn, soya, etc. in order to have a helthier life;
What about human health?
"not eating meat and have a vegan/vegetarian is a way of improving human health (e.g. the consumption of meat and milk is associated with cancer, strokes, heart desieses, and other serious health problems)"
SOURCE Livestock's Long Shadow - Environmental Issues and Options report from the United Nations:
[link]
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Deer? We are talking about intense production of meat in livestock where domesticated animals are raised and you talk about deers? Do you think the animals you eat are in the wild? If you think so you just have no idea about the corps you eat.
Oh I'm sorry, I thought when you said animals having feelings you were talking about ALL animals...not just picking and choosing specifics here
Canines? Gorillas have more canines that humans and they are strong and healthy vegetarian animals. Once again you bring arguments without any sense. And you think me and other vegan people didn´t like meat, milk, egs, fish, etc, before I stop eating them? Is it so hard for you to acknowledge that being vegan is not about taste but all about ethics?
Gorillas also supplement their diets with a lot of grasses and leaves...how many humans do you know that can eat grass and leaves?
My point being, for non-vegans it's nothing about ethics...it's about taste 
Your problem is that you're throwing a multitude of arguments into just one argument, and so when someone disagrees you automatically assume they're disagreeing with the whole of your one argument. I never said I didn't think animal farming was adding to global warming, and so it was unnecessary to provide those facts.
As to the health of vegan diets, it is widely know that vegans have to supplement vital nutrients such as iron and B12...but generally it can be healthy when moderated properly
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You were the one who broght the argument of "human have canines because they like meat". That is an absurd argument, so I gave the example of an animal like gorilas who have more canines than humans and they are vegetarian, healthy animals. I know exactly what they eat, and they are vegetarians. So the absurd argument of the canines you meat eaters use is just another argument that just doesn´t make any sense.
There is a huge diference between animals who are produced and others who are hunted. Even in production of animals there are other tho categories of the ones who are produced in a local scale and the ones who are produced in a global scale, for a wider range of consumers. The 2billion consumers (like you)that live in the most developed countries are the ones that have access to meat, milk and egs PRODUCED in a global scale, are the ones who are reported in studies about high cancer, heart desieses, strockes, obesity rates, etc. Consumers like you are co-responsable for enviornmental degradation (lost of biodiversity, water and air pollution, soil degradation, etc.); you are also accomplice for the hunger of people of the third world countries because you are supporting a system that feeds animals with soya, corn, cerealsm etc., instead of feeding people. That is an example of wrong resources usage. Of me and other vegans are not a speciesists like you are, we don´t discriminate animal species: so for us, deers, cats, dogs, walles, cows, pigs, humans, etc. they all have the right to live due the fact they are sentient.
You distort almost everything I say because you want to avoid the facts or because you just are ignorant and you just don´t get it. Already send you a link for a documentary and other link for the United Nations report released in 2006 and you just are not interested in confronting the truth.
There is one thing I agree with you. All you say it´s about your taste" for eating animals. YOu think with your stomach instead of using cognitive capacities that are the only thing we have more than non-human animals.
If you want to be serious in this discussion, why don´t you bring scientific facts that prove that eating animals isn´t (1) bad for them? (2) that does´t cause environmental degradation? (3) that is sustainable? (4) that milk, eggs, corpses, doesn´t cause human health degradation?
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'Cause I can't just go out and eat some grass like Gorillas do. And since we're on that manner, could you explain why vegan foods cost so much more?
1) Never said that eating animals doesn't harm them. Of course you have to kill an animal to eat it...a little redundant. You claim it's torture because they're massed produced...I live in the Western United States where cattle are free to room and have plenty of space for the herd. Sure there are companies that keep them in confined spaces...but that's not evidence that all companies do that
2) Again, never said eating animals doesn't lead to environment degradation
3) Same as 2)
4) A simple wikilink -> [link]
Vegans who do not substitute vital minerals are subject to unhealthy issues just as well, much like someone who eats meat but doesn't exercise. Both parties have to make a choice when they choose their diets
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Still you say things without any sense. At least when talk about things you do know, do some research. About Gorilas: they do not eat grass. They eat plants, roots, or leaves. "Mountain gorillas eat over 100 different species of plants. They rarely need to drink since their diet is so rich in succulent herbs, from which they get their water." - And once again they have lots of canines and that doesn´t mean that they eat corps. So, drop that myth that humans "like meat because they have canines" - it just senseless.
Vegans that have health problems are not aware of the nutrients they must have. Fortunately, the majority of vegans do have consciesness about what they eat.
So, at least you agree that livestock industry do cause environment degradation; you agree that is not sustainable; you agree that it hurts animals and that is unnecessary to eat them; you might also agree that meat, milk and causes serious health problems. It could be a begining for you to make some research in the web, and
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Gorillas eat grass -> "Gorillas are able to survive on vegetation such as leaves, stems, roots, vines, herbs, trees, and grasses but such vegetation has relatively low nutritional quality. Therefore, they must consume a larger quantity, but it is available year-round." [link]
I agree eating animals hurts animals...is it unethical? Towards the environment, sure...torture of the animals, sometimes...not always
And if I'm twisting words around to suit me than why are you avoiding so many of my questions?
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Of course, gorilas are healthy vegetarian animals that share 93% of the human genetic. They eat many kinds of vegetables, they have canines and they do not "love meat".
Lets put the situation in simple terms: you eat meat, and a vegan person doesn´t eat meat.
What are the consequences of meat eating? Fact1. Animal Suffering // Fact 2 Enviornmental degradation // Fact 3 wrong resources usage // - so, you as corps consumer support this consequences it means you are co-responsable. Theese are truths that hide behind your corps dish. The vegan person isnt´t co-responsable for any of this.
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I'm done arguing with you. You're jumping around to much to stay in one corner...even though I've addressed these issues several times you are clearly not listening
and as for that gorillas eating grass...you brought up the argument that they don't
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I am glad that you are not going to use again the argument "we humans love meat because we have canines" because gorilas do also present canines, even more then humans, and they are vegetarian.
I don´t have nothing more to say.
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Well I did it a year ago, well prior to Christmas 2009. I feel better but fart a lot... As I don't think that has anything to do with the environment, other than being glad I live alone.
I do not however want my grand kids to grow and never see a field full of cows or sheep.
I used to live on a pheasant estate, I hated it, however one day I heard of the radio a very interesting program that clearly explained that if we didn't have pheasant shoots that the creature would have been extinct long ago...
Kind of says it all really. I like leather shoes as anything else make my feet so damned sore. So thank you to the cows for my shoes.
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Of course it has everything to do with environment, at least UN report "Livestock's Long Shadow - Environmental Issues and Options" that came out in 2006 states "that the livestock sector is one of the top two or three most significant contributors to the most serious environmental problems, at every scale from local to global. The findings of this report suggest that it should be a major policy focus when dealing with problems of land degradation, climate change and air pollution, water shortage and water pollution, and loss of biodiversity."
You say you "like", and that is only the argument you could have. I understand. It doesn´t mean that is ethical to use the skin of animals to do shoes, specialy nowadays that we can find in the market confortable shoes at very low prices... Maybe if someone make shoes of your cat or dog you wouldn´t thank for it.
Fart a lot? ahahah... there is a nice tea or other foods that can avoid you fart.
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I am 66 and fart more frequently than younger people. I have had serious abdominal surgery too. My feet are damaged from being a dance teacher and despite all attempts I cannot wear anything other than leather backless clog type shoes. They have to have leather under my foot on the lining.
The animals and the environment issues are a massive scam to make us short of food while the rich elite are stockpiling it in underground shelters, maybe to sell back to us when we are desperate.
I hate the killing of animals and feel very strongly that we all need to be much more in tune and closer to nature, however I do not think the animals can be blamed in any way for the environment. There is no global warming, we are in a period of global cooling which will last possibly another 30 years. The poles are beginning to shift too at the rate of 40 miles a year in the northern hemisphere and just 3 miles a year in the south. No need to panic, it will take 5,000 years.
[link]
I am for the time being thank full to the animals for letting me use the skins left over from the meat eaters for my poor feet. I also have severe oedema.
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I nary feel so in tune with nature as when consuming dead animal.
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I agree with you in one thing, global warming is a scam. But I didn´t mention global warming, I mention (also in the poster) pollution as one of the consequences of the massive meat industry.
Factory farms produce run-off that pollutes streams and rivers, endangering not only the water supply for humans but also destroying eco-systems, and intensive livestock and poultry farms are becoming a global problem. Just go and check it out what is CARGIL doing to Amazonia in order to produce soya for catle consumption.
Just one more example: 200 manure discharges and spills from U.S. animal farms between 1990 and 1997 have killed more than a billion fish.Animal feedlots can contaminate nearby well water with high levels of nitrates and methane. The list just goes on and on.
Cows don´t "let" you use their skins. They are forced to do it, which is a very different situation
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"There is no global warming, we are in a period of global cooling"
The majority of scientists working on the project says that it is happening. I think I'll listen to thousands of scientists over crackpot politically motivated jerk offs clearly payed by the oil industry to squeeze every last drop out of the earth before it's gone.
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I studied Geology, and learnt that every 150,000 years, an ice-age occured. The last ice-age was over 150,000 years ago, and I read that scientists believe that one reason that this ice-age may be late is to do with Global Warming.
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