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Published: 2011-03-11 06:37:14 +0000 UTC; Views: 21368; Favourites: 111; Downloads: 229
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Greetings and salutations.This one is based on a short AH story by Olaf Stapledon, (of "Star Maker" and "Last and First Men" fame) called, IIRC, East is West. In it China breaks up in the Middle Ages and stays divided, while the German Emperors succeed in their goal of uniting western Christendom and subordinating the Popes. By the 20th century a sort of mirror image world has come into existence, where the eastern nations are the modern industrial powers, while the west is dominated by a decaying and turbulent Europe-spanning Empire.
Not having as seriously annoying a Steppe experience as OTL China, the Holy Roman Empire is ruled by a Germanic dynasty with enough local legitimacy that they are still theoretically in charge, although competing revolutionary and separatist groups are stirring up trouble. Planning to use this as an excuse to intervene is the Empire of Britannia, which thanks to its rich industrial resources and strongly centralized government, has managed to modernize like Japan in our world.
The HRE is still struggling to make it out of the 16th century, although there are some hopeful shoots of industrialization here and there. It is heavily Germanized, German dialects being spoken in what our world would be Poland, the Baltic, Venetia, northern France, the Czech republic, and parts of the Ukraine: Latin remains important in Lombardy and the south and west of France. It suffers from severe overpopulation, imports of American food plants by the Asians having brought about a population boom over the last three centuries.
Although the unified Christian Empire managed to do better than OTLs Crusaders, and managed to establish its rule over Egypt, the Holy Land, and much of North Africa, Muslims rallied and were well on their way to driving the Europeans back across the Mediterranean when the Asians put their oar in in the 19th century and to some extents froze things.
Russia, cut off from a hostile Imperial Caesaropapist west and indeed more than once threatened by conquest from it, looked east for civilization and modernity, although retaining their Christianity. “Scratch a Russian and find a Tatar” is truer here than OTL: the Russians became a steppe empire in their own right. (Although there have been some badass pastoralist empires in this TL, there hasn’t been anything quite as apocalyptic as Genghis Khan and Co., so Russia advanced east earlier than OTL). Russians continued to wear robes, did not shave their beards, and studied the works of Kong Fu Tzu (and the many non-OTL glosses on his work). After the revolution brought about by the bloody but inconclusive War of Six Directions (in which Wei lost its colonies) the new government adapted a socialistic regime based on the ideas of Asian philosophers.
The Khanate of Ind, a Mughal-equivalent Islamic empire, is struggling to modernize and keep at bay the Asian powers nipping at its flanks: it is looked upon with some disdain by the major Asian powers, who consider it the Sick Man of Asia.
The Americas or Dawn Lands (Japan is still the Land of the Rising Sun, but the Americas are observably further east) are mostly independent nowadays, the south Chinese and Vietnamese and Nihonese colonies having broken away in previous centuries. Being inconvenient to reach and mostly unpromising jungle and grassland and backwards tribes, the eastern bits were colonized later than OTL: the Nihonese “Brazilian” colony is less populous than OTL Brazil at the time (the Nihonese finally had to use convict labor to get the first settlements going… )
The Kingdom of Dali and Viet played a major role in the early era of overseas exploration and colonization, but has in the last couple centuries declined, being considered nowadays backwards and downright reactionary. Qi and Nihon are long-standing rivals for power in Asia and abroad, while Hubaekje remains a major commercial power. They have kissed and made up due to the rise of Great Wei since the Unification of the Three Northern Kingdoms, and even after the peace of exhaustion in the last war, Wei does not seem reconciled to being merely the first among equals. Now under an extremist neo-legalist regime, it has allied to land-locked (and therefore discontented) Shu and the barbaric but industrialized and regionally powerful Britannians in what seems to be an effort to overthrow the balance of power for good.
Nihon is a power in relative decline, in spite of its still extensive Empire. Its colonies in OTL South Africa, Australia and New Zealand are flourishing, but are also increasingly independent-minded. Nihon perhaps never got over the loss of its Dawn Land colonies, which have since expanded eastwards to become the world’s largest industrial power. Compared to OTLs US, North America is more densely populated in the west and less so in the East: the major surviving Indian populations and tribal lands are in the east rather than the west, having had more time to recover from epidemics before Nihonese settlers arrived, while most tribes west of the Mississippi have been rather thoroughly assimilated. It also has a sizeable European component in the NE, Scandinavian fishermen exploiting the Grand Banks having eventually established settlements after the local tribes were decimated by plagues and before the Nihonese took much interest in that cold, stony-soiled land. Currently the big question is whether the US of the Dawn Lands will interfere in the war many are sure is coming…
PS - do not pester me with questions about which Asian nation stands for which European one. I went further with the "mirroring" than Olaf did in his story filling in the details he didn't describe, but it simply isn't possible to do a 1-1 matching...
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Comments: 24
InfernoMole [2016-06-22 14:46:52 +0000 UTC]
So, does it mean that Ukraine and Belarus are Cossack-based states in East Asia?
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Whiteshore1 [2016-04-17 12:30:13 +0000 UTC]
Is the Holy Roman Empire on the verge of a revolution calling for a "Second Republic of Rome"?
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Eheucaius17 [2015-07-30 07:04:28 +0000 UTC]
Nihon/Japan = British empire
Qi = France
Wei = Nazi Germany
Latter Shu = Italy
Britainia = Japan
HRE = China
Rus = Soviet Union
US of the Dawn Lands = United States
Ind Khanate = Ottoman empire
Dali and Viet = Spain
Hubaekji = Norway/Sweden/Denmark/Scandanavia
Liao = Portugal
Holy confederation of the mountains = Switzerland
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Todyo1798 [2013-07-18 15:11:14 +0000 UTC]
Just read Stapledon's story and I gotta say with fresh eyes you've still done very well
But I will say, Ireland is supposed to be a powerful ally of Britannia, encouraging them to got to war so they can pick up some colonies of their own. WHY YOU NOT DO DIS? D:
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AmongTheSatanic In reply to Todyo1798 [2013-12-07 23:33:55 +0000 UTC]
So, Britain's Thailand?
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Todyo1798 In reply to AmongTheSatanic [2013-12-08 00:46:55 +0000 UTC]
Yes, makes sense. Scandinavia could be a good Manchuria.
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AmongTheSatanic In reply to Todyo1798 [2013-12-09 17:58:16 +0000 UTC]
Thought it was Korea but it could double for Manchuria.
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Todyo1798 In reply to AmongTheSatanic [2013-12-10 17:50:26 +0000 UTC]
It's like a good jumping ground for getting to the continent, so yeah.
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epileptictrees [2013-04-07 22:26:37 +0000 UTC]
Here's my guess:
Japan=Britain. It's obvious even in OTL (tiny but filthy rich island nations, constitutional monarchy, comparable climates, history of naval experience, phases of both isolationism and empire building (although Britain was better at empires while Japan was better at isolation), uptight aristocratic "politeness" culture (e.g., posh British, Japanese obsession with honorifics), history of feudal military (knights/samurai), history of jackassery to Chinese (Opium Wars and World War II), xenophobia, copypasting others' cultures and language despite said xenophobia (British cannibalized words from Latin and French because Latin is scholarly and French is fashionable, while Japanese dumped its phonemic alphabet for the Chinese-based Kanji, at least in formal writing, because Chinese was scholarly), love of tea, hated by everybody else (especially French/Koreans), modern exporters of iconic niche products that everybody else likes (British comedy vs Anime), driving on the left side of the road, excessively formal school uniforms (in Japan, British excessively formal schoolgirl uniforms are a fetish), love of tea, and what else)
Dawn Lands, formerly Japan colonies=America, formerly Britain colonies. I can accept Nihongo replacing English since the phonemic parts of its alphabet (i.e. hiragana and katakana) are sound-based just like the Latin alphabet on which English is based on, which means that Nihongo may share English's capability to adopt any international loan words with impunity, and coin all kinds of memes. It's going to have a hard time with the L's though.
The Brazil colony, or Land of Eastern Exile=Australia (penal colony)
Qi Republic=French Republic. Japan and Qi are described as having a rivalry despite being in the same Allies. Just like Britain/France tsundere relationship.
I guess the Alliance of Righteousness is the Allies while the Iron Triangle is the Axis. Which means:
Legalism will obviously evolve into Fascism. In Legalism, the law is always right and one should obey the Law at the expense of himself. In Fascism, the Party's law is always right and one should obey the Party's law at the expense of himself.
Wei is the German Reich (Fine, my basis is that Wei is coloured grey just like the Reich's colour scheme in many AH world maps. Also, "Unification of the Three Northern Kingdoms" may be a parallel to Hitler's dreams of Lebensraum and unifying the Germanic tribes)
Latter Shu may be Italy
Britannia is Japan (again with the "Japan is East Britain". I wonder if, after the war, they start making anime ala "Mobile Suit Knightmare Frame"? I cannot expect the more intense tentacles though since this is where Britain forms a difference with Japan, that is the conservative "anti-sex" taboo that pervades British morality but is not important in Shinto)
Holy Roman Empire is China. (If it does collapse into warlordism, I'm expecting Dark Ages-style brutality)
Netherlands is Shanghai (HRE international trade zone)
Hubaekje/Korea is the Dutch East India Company (commercial hub)
India is Ancient Greece (former philosophy hub, now near an Islamic state)
The Holy Confederation aka Nepal/The Himalayas/Tibet is Israel/the Vatican with Buddhism as obviously Christianity.
Vietnam is either Spain or Portugal (formerly played a major role in colonization, now considered backwards)
But then, we have a constant. Communist Russia = Communist Russia
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QuantumBranching In reply to epileptictrees [2013-04-08 03:05:37 +0000 UTC]
Well, I said that 1-1 matching isn't possible, but you're mostly correct. The Khanate of Ind is the Ottoman Empire (encompassing the old philosophical centers as the Turks ran Greece, but with the difference from the OTL equivalent that they haven't been broken up yet, although South India=North Africa has been colonized.) Tibet is more Switzerland/Vatican than Israel/Vatican (there's no real east Asian equivalent to the Jews). Korea is the Netherlands. Dali/Viet is Iberia. And the original story had Communist Russia (after all, being in the middle, how can you flip it? )
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UmbricMan [2013-02-02 03:51:40 +0000 UTC]
This is my favorite map of yours.
You've created the perfect blend of whimsical and alternate history, parallelism and plausibility, and you've made a intriguing world based on the already-interesting idea Stapledon researched. You've done a couple interesting breaks from the mirroring (Korean, Qi, and Japanese colonies, basically colonies still existing in the Dawnlands is a funky idea for a New Worlder like me) and giving *just* enough translations to make me wonder how those names and national concepts came about.
This is the highest fan-map your fertile mind has produced, IMO.
I must ask - while I think even the much-more urbanized western US of Dawnlands is still less populous than the eastern OTL US of A by default, do you still see the lands west of the alt-Mississippi as still being heavily populated, and said population/settlement being much more spread out (like the eastern USA, to be honest) then heavily concentrated in certain river valleys like Americans of OTL settled as they peopled the west? I figured you would know more than I on if if it's actually plausible.
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CyberPhoenix001 [2013-01-29 21:06:55 +0000 UTC]
Very interesting, although if Britain is meant to be the Japan-equivalent in this world's WWII-equivalent, then that would mean...
KAMIKAZE SCOTSMEN!!!
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QuantumBranching In reply to CyberPhoenix001 [2013-01-31 05:35:08 +0000 UTC]
Ah, that takes me back... [link]
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Todyo1798 [2013-01-05 20:26:38 +0000 UTC]
You missed a trick by not making the Azores the Hawaii analogue.
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QuantumBranching In reply to Todyo1798 [2013-01-06 21:43:23 +0000 UTC]
Even Homer nods.
PS-the blind poet, not the fat idiot
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QuantumBranching In reply to AmongTheSatanic [2012-07-09 05:19:05 +0000 UTC]
Or Spain be the Viets.
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Arashi89 [2011-10-26 15:38:16 +0000 UTC]
So, according to the UCS Japan is UK, Korea is the Netherlands, Qi is France, Wei is Germany, Liao is Italy, Shu is Austria-Hungary, Dali is... Portugal? and the Ind are the Ottoman Empire. While in Europe, HRE is China, UK is Japan and Russia is... well, still Russia, I guess.
Well, even if the world turns upside down, you can always count on America becoming a superpower!
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Todyo1798 In reply to Arashi89 [2011-12-27 01:04:26 +0000 UTC]
It's meant to be OTL's WW2 I think, so I would put Liao as Poland and Shu as Italy
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QuantumBranching In reply to Arashi89 [2011-10-30 06:22:20 +0000 UTC]
I don't always follow UCS, so be careful.
Well, America is a good place for setting up your future superpower: huge amounts of resouces, nice big ocean barriers, and easily crushed natives...
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