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RadoJavor — Spring In Ukraine
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Published: 2014-07-31 22:16:06 +0000 UTC; Views: 64312; Favourites: 1705; Downloads: 1266
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Description
Just a little picture inspired by the events in this severely tried land. I would like to show my support to the brave people there.In the spring Ukrainian airborne units started to push the russians.
All done in photoshop in some 5 evenings after the study of BMD-2 photos.
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Comments: 453
The Red Cross has acknowledged that it's a civil war, while the people living there understand that it's not a civil war, every nation that has been occupied by the soviet empire knows it's not a civil war, it's all orchestrated by kremlin ... a civil war doesn't mean it has be fought inside the country, Isis attacking Iraqi military - is that also a civil war? The nation has to be divided into 2 or more groups that fight for ideology, territory or whatever ... these are kremlin payed low-lives terrorize the local russian-speaking population they said they came to protect ... these criminals have little to no support of the local population ... so it's not a civil war, also russia is bombing Ukraine from it's territory, there are lots of confirmations of this, Ukraine border-posts are being bombed with artillery on a daily basis - it's not a civil war
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Firstly: Yes, what happens in Iraq with Isis troops attacking Iraqi military would be, according to the definition that is used in political science, also be a civil war. Though the term intrastate war is far more widely used, most authors don't make qualitative distinction between the two. There are certain criteria, that have to be met before a conflict is considered a civil war, for example number of battle or battle-related deaths, the war occuring within the boundaries of a state, a minimum level of organisation and the attempt of the insurgents to overthrow the existing rule (the criteria may vary from author to author, but the basic ideas remain the same). I can't speak for the number of battle-/battle-related deaths, but the International Red Cross has proven to be as reliable as can be under the circumstances. So all critiera for civil war are met.
Secondly: There is EVIDENCE, that Russia has fired on Ukrainian soil. Maybe they have, I wouldn't doubt it. But there is still a fairly important distinction between evidence and proof. To make such a judgement call, fairly advanced technology (or insider information in the Russian military) would be necessary, like spy satellites. This information is currently only available to (or employed by) the major players: United States and Russia.Now, I'm certainly not going to say that the US play as dirty as Putin's Russia. But considering the actions of US Intelligence Agencies in the 21. Century I'm cautious about relying to much on their data, especially as long as it's not backed up by a more neutral party and as far as I know, no other country has backed the US claims up so far.
Thirdly: Whether or not a third country is involved does not affect the question of civil war. In the Liberian civil wars four countries (Liberia, Sierre Leone, Guinea and Ivory Coast) were strongly interconnected. Each country supported 'rebels' in the other countries in order to achieve their political and economic goals. This isn't new, this isn't uncommon. This is in no way a justification for what Putin does, don't get me wrong. His behaviour is inexcusable and dangerous. But just because he's backing his allies in East-Ukraine, even supplying them with arms, intelligence and yes, maybe even artillery cover, does not in any way reflect on the question of whether this is a civil war.
I do believe, that the East-Ukrainian insurgency is strongly backed by Russia. I also believe, that Russia is using them to achieve their own goals. However, I've never heard any serious claims, that _all_ of the Insurgents are in fact mercenaries. It is not a secret, that there were right-wing, panslavic groups among the Russian population in East-Ukraine (Just as much as there are rightwing groups in the western Ukraine). Maybe Russia even mobilised them. But several key actors of the insurgency are Ukrainian citiziens, like Pushilin and Gubarev.
Now, to make this absolutely clear: I do NOT support the East Ukrainian insurgency. Considering the evidence at hat, I'm certain that their acts are illegitimate, that the polls leading to the break away were faked, that they are responsible for terrorising opposition members and war crimes. I do believe, that Putin is backing them, militarily and financially.
But per definition, what happens in Ukraine is a civil war. This does not justify anything, this does not but the insurgents in the right. It's just the fact, that this term, as it is defined and used by the scientific community, applies to what is happening in Ukraine.
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I don't rely on USA or kremlin media, I rely on Ukrainian media and idiots that post pictures and videos of how russian artilery fires from russian territory from Rostov region, I think you saw selfies posted by russian soldiers ... well if this is technically a civil war than, most wars are civil wars or even all them ...
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Well, actually: The majority of wars currently are in fact civil wars or as it is most commonly referred to 'intrastate wars'. Here's a graph by the well renowned Uppsala Conflict Data Program uppsalaconflictdataprogram.fil… , showing that at the moment most wars are intrastate wars (e.g. civil wars), with several internationalised civil wars (like for example Ukraine), while the number of interstate wars has all but disappeared.
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I'm saying about wars in general ... if one state starts a war with another state there will always be groups inside the attacked country that would want to profit from it or would be persuaded by the attacking side to fight against it's own country, for gaining influence and money, it doesn't matter if it's present day or ancient times, there's always groups that would only care about gaining smth by joining the attackers ... so almost every war is a civil war, if following the definition you provided ... a civil war for me is for example the War of Roses in England or the American Civil War, there's no external influence and it's a purely interior matter
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Yes, but even those war's weren't. The Confederates were supported by French capitalists and allowed to purchase warships in Britain, mainly because European powers had an interest in the South's cotton. France even thought about supporting the Confederacy, because they were more favourable towards there imperial notions in Mexico. The only reason they didn't go through with this was because they lack the support of the other European powers.
Same goes for the Wars of the Roses: It was heavily influenced by the experiences of the Hundred Years War (which was an inter'state' war) and the beginning of the Civil War saw naval raids on Hanseatic and Spanish merchant vessels. There were also Scotish Noblemen with their retinue fighting alongside the House of York and there is evidence for Burgundian mercenaries fighting for House Lancaster.
Hardly any civil war will ever be completely confined to the national boundaries.
Besides: The Ukrainian Insurgents are not supporting the attacker Russia. You're getting things upside down. Russia might have given incentive to the insurgents to rebel and it might be the factor that keeps them going. But the insurgents have their own interests and motives. Even with evidence for artillery barrages from Russia, the majority of the fighting is still happening in the Ukraine, between Ukrainians. This is at least according to the reliable sources I have so far and I'm very careful about choosing my information.
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yes, but both of those have started from an internal problem, other factors are secondary ... I live in Moldova and there was a "civil war" 1992 exactly like that one that russia is engineering in Ukraine, exacltly like that one from Georgia from the 90's; as I said you won't understand what's really happening if you don't live in post-soviet country, it's all thanks to russia and it would never happen without russia, there are pro-kremlin lobbyists in all post-soviet countries politics, business, media etc. ... there are no ukranians fighting against ukranians, those that fight for russia don't consider themselves ukranians and they openly disrespect the country's language, culture, traditions ... the same goes for every other country in post-soviet world... most russian-speaking "citizens" in my country consider themselves russians, they openly disrespect the moldavian culture and can't stand the fact that Moldova is independent ... if Belarus(russia's vassal) suddenly decides it wants to take the EU path then guess what will happen ... or Kazakhstan ... the only thing that saves the Baltic States is that they are a member of EU and NATO, Russia can pull the same card with the "discrimination of the russians" like it did in my country and like it did in Chechnya and now in Ukraine ... most russians are imperialists and loyalists, their masters are in kremlin and it doesn't matter where in the post-soviet world they are living ... you can just research the later wars that russia led agains post-soviet nations ... if you didn't know Chechnya was also annexed through a fake referendum where 95% of the votes where for becoming a part of russia ... sounds familiar?
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The situation in Georgia is well researched and presents itself a little bit different. The escalation originated from a rise in nationalist sentiments among Georgians, Abakhasians and Ossetians. Soviet identity politics certainly were partly responsible for grievances among those groups and for the later escalation. But Zviad was also strongly opposed to the independence that the two regions enjoyed during the time of the Soviet Union. The Ossetian rebellion only started after the Georgian government renounced the status of Ossetia.
This illustrates exactly what is my point here: I'm not saying Russia isn't involved or to a certain extent at fault here. But to claim, that the insurgents are just mercenaries paid by the Kremlin reduces the complexity of the conflict drastically. If you make a broad judgement about 'all Russians' you suddenly define a huge variety of people simply according to whether they consider themselves Russian or not. Even in Russia not 'all Russians' are goons for the Kremlin. There is opposition to Putin, even if he tries to put it down. There are people who disagree with him but simply are to afraid to speak up. These oversimplifications help nobody. The reason why many 'Russians' from Crimea and Eastern Ukraine sided with the insurgents was, that they were afraid that they might be threatened by what happen in Kiew. Most of these fears may have been caused by false media reports, claims and other means of propaganda by Pro-Russian actors. But threats to abolish Russian as an official language in an area with a huge number of Russian speakers certainly didn't help ease the fear. Neither does the fact, that both the rebels and the Ukrainian government are investigated for having committed war crimes.
I don't believe the outcomes of the referendums, the evidence strongly suggests that they were faked. But considering all who oppose the Ukrainian government to be mindless drones, without considering that they might have genuine grievances, fears or even only interests in the conflict only others them and helps nothing to understand the conflict and how to overcome it.
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I can't really explain to you something that anybody in the post-soviet world understands ... you have to live it and experience it ... the point is that russia is involved in all of these so called "civil wars" ... russia is still an empire and there are empire leftovers in all post-soviet coutries ...
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nothing you wrote this picture and clearly expressed their view of what is happening in the Ukraine, you just became a part of the propaganda instead to paint a picture that shows the real horror of what is happening there is not exhibiting any of the parties heroes because on both sides there are heroes and villains, there is no black and white as shown in cartoons disney, a civil voyna- is always terrible, and your picture looks like a propaganda poster
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It's not a civil war. It's a hybrid war with artificially created insurgency. This picture has actually more truth than your "let's blur the lines"-comment.
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its not civil war, that a fact. almost all of the rebels leaders are russian citizens. there is no need to any more disinformation.
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I'm afraid to disappoint you. You are deeply mistaken.
Do you come from? From Russia? Can Ukraine? No? You sit in the tens of thousands of miles and all know. You do not find it strange? Although, wait ... I - Russian and I know perfectly well what is happening and to persuade you I do not have any desire. Why? By the fact that for you intelligibly Fashington propaganda. Yes, exactly - Fashington.
Oh, yes, of course... Draw on the flags of Ukraine. Can immediately start to draw interned nuclear explosions. After all, you want it so much, as much as you hate all Russian and Russian
PS
And yes, it is - a civil war. And the citizens of Russia - is not there. In eastern Ukraine genocide occurs. Although... you explain... pointless
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I live closer to Ukraine than you. so please don't offend my intelligence by such silly stories.
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Get out of here, stalker. I mean vatnik.
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Fashington propaganda!??? Did you realy believe in it!? I'm from ukraine And I know what's going in my country! All that said the author( RadoJavor), it is true!
If you want to see the
arguments, you must find that in truly information, not in your
Russian TV and (Putin propaganda)!
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It's not a civil war. It's a hybrid war with artificially created insurgency. Part of the so-called rebel leaders (but I would rather call them Kremlin-backed mercenaries) are Russian citizens. Borodai, Strelkov and Bezler are from Russia.
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Several key figures of the Ukrainian Insurgency are quite certainly of Ukrainian birth. While the question of Russian support for the Insurgents is not yet fully disclosed (and I personally believe there is such a thing), that still doesn't change the fact, that several leaders and combatants of the insurgency are in fact Ukrainians. As far as I know, no scientific or political correspondent believes, that _all_ of the Pro-Russian combatants in the East-Ukraine are Russian mercenaries.
Even if the insurgency was create artificially, that doesn't change the fact that it is a civil war. Civil war refers to an armed struggle between two or more organised groups within one country (some definition require one of these groups to be the government, which is also the case in the Ukraine). Both groups are to a sufficient extent organised, both are Ukrainian (even if they may be backed and equipped by Russia) and the war is happening inside of the Ukraine. So, yes, what happens there is in fact a civil war, an assessment that is supported by the latest statement of the International Red Cross (uk.reuters.com/article/2014/07… .
While 'Mr. Sato' comment is incredibly asinine, it would still be wise to keep a level head. I do not sympathise with the goals of the Insurgents nor there behaviour. The UN has serious reports of severe human rights violations on the hands of the rebels and the latest events around the MH17 crash site don't paint the rebels in a favourable light either. Nevertheless, other UN reports found BOTH parties of the conflict responsible for violating international law and maybe even committing war crimes, as the are strong indications that the rebels deliberately set up bases in rural areas and the Ukrainian Army nevertheless bombarding these area with unguided missiles, thus killing innocent civilians (and before anyone shouts Russian propaganda, my source is Human Rights Watch, hardly a pro-Putin thinktank www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/24/uk… .
So, even though I understand opposition to the Insurgents and I oppose them myself, I would be careful with oversimplifying the conflict. Both sides have a strong interest in painting the picture favourable to their cause and I don't think that either side is above using propaganda. I would strongly scrutinise every piece of information to avoid falling victim to a eschewed representation of the conflict. And stating 'that there is no need to any information' doesn't do any war justice, as the one thing you can never get enough of, in order to get at least an approximate picture of what is really going on, is information.
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Wow beautiful. this photo make me sad just when i see it and think about people who's dead in this war
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makes me sad too, really. I wish none of this happens.
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A very grim reminder of some of the affairs in our world. Very tasteful. Excellent work!
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Stunning work as as always! The atmosphere of this really reflects the dire situation in Ukraine.
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I really like this. I feel like I'm there. I particularly like the muzzle flash, lighting, and particle effect. Get some!
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Keep believing in russian propaganda, the truth might hurt too much.
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And you seem to be a native ukrainian and have a view from inside, knowing all the truth? Even inside of the Ukraine truth has many faces.
That's the whole point of the civil war. Yer bullshit about russian propaganda doesn't have any proof, yes?
The only reason people fight over there is because they're ordered to by their government. But governments differ for both sides.
You german folk of all world's people should know what it means when people get exiled or worse just because they are different. But in Ukraine's case they're pretty much the same, thanks to centuries of being Rus as a whole.
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what can I say..... screw you and your russian friends...
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Sad but true.... 
As an artwork, you did an amazing work.
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As refugees and deserters. By the way, a small request, get acquainted with the number of troops in Ukraine in 1991, and at the moment. Tsyfry speak for themselves.
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No matter the subject matter It's a great display!
Hope they can quell the terrorists.
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Хорошо что украинских фашистов становится все меньше и меньше.
Я пожалуй вдохновлюсь и нарисую реальных героев этой дебильной войны.
--------- Специально для пендосов переведу на english -------------
Is good that Ukrainian fascists becoming less and less.
Perhaps i inspired by this art and draw the real heroes of this moronic war.
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Я живу в Украине. Каждый день хожу по улицам Киева. Здесь нет никакого фашизма, нет, не было и не будет. Не верите - приезжайте, посмотрите сами.
Вы замечательно рисуете, что говорит о том, что в вас есть творческий талант. Не мешайте его с ненавистью, навязанной вам медиа, пожалуйста.
I live in Ukraine. I walk the streets of Kiev every day. There is no fascism here, never been here before, nor will be in future. If you distrust me - please, come and see for yourself.
You draw really well, hence you have potent creative talent. Please, don't mix it with hate imposed on you by media.
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Я живу в Краматорске. Давай расскажи мне как тут хорошо.
А лучше приезжай, поможешь окна вставлять, домик на винограднике отстроишь, который разхерячила украинская армия. К бабуле на могилку сходим...
И сканер не забудь его, навязанной мне меди железякой поломало.
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Что смешно, слышал ровно противоположное от людей в Славянске. Они были рады, когда та самая украинская армия, которая якобы расхерачила тебе домик на винограднике освободила город. И Нона боевиковская и товарища по двору ездила. И дома соседние артобстрелом (и нифига не украинским) раздолбало. К счастью, всё семейство уцелело. Бежали, бросив собственный дом сюда, в Киев, в студенческую общагу жить.
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"слышал". У кого-то богатая фантазия. Я неделю назад с родственниками в Донецке связь потеряла, когда туда ваши "доблестные" войска украинские пришли. Последний раз слышала, как тетка в трубку рыдала и жаловалась, что бомбят. Пытались уехать, но испугались, когда один из автобусов с беженцами под обстрел попал. Ваши уроды даже коридора беженцам не дают. И все прекрасно знают там, кто бомбит. Сидите там под бандерой в Киве своем и не вякайте. Нихрена вы не знайте.
А мы ведь один народ. Мне жаль, что вам так мозги промыли. Искренне надеюсь, что вы одумайтесь. Если же нет, то Бог вам судья. И пускай солдатики нераскаявшиеся ваши молятся, чтобы те, чьи дома поломали и жизни порушили, до них не добрались.
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Мы - не один народ! Как говорится, никогда мы не будем братьями. Мне жаль, что вам так мозги промыли. Я был на Майдане, и я понимаю, что такие безликие и бесхребетные, как вы, никогда не сможете этого осознать. Извините, мне не о чем с вами говорить. А Донецк, между тем, всё ещё в осаде, и именно какие-то там Гиркины являются причиной того, что там происходит! И простите, именно боевики отказались соблюдать перемирие, когда оно было объявлено. Спойте ещё разок песенку про карателей. И не забудьте про доблестных российских террористов. И про обстрел наших пограничников Градами тоже не забудьте. И про МН17 вспомните.
А то, я посмотрю, вы отлично информированы. Обо всём, что происходит в другой стране.
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Да, я отлично информирована от своих родных и друзей, которые там, возможно, погибли.
Ппц, ну и чушь ты пишешь. С тобой все ясно. Разговор окончен. Чтоб тебе повестку прислали.
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Тебе того же. Хотя, ДНР повестками не занимается. Они просто людей гребут.
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Вот и я о том же думаю)
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Повестка пришла, хохол? Или ты белогандонник?
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рад за вас, но тут рисунок обсуждают а не твой толовую жизнь.
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Nice to see you paint something of significance as opposed to playing it safe like some do.
I fully support Ukraine in this and hope with the help of the US and EU, they can show Russia that it can't bully its European neighbours and hope to get away with it.
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