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rlkitterman — First Sabre to Kill a MiG
#america #coldwar #koreanwar #military #aircraft #airplane #daytonohio #jetfighter #usairforce #f86sabrejet #unitedstatesairforce #northamericanaviation #nationalmuseumoftheusaf
Published: 2014-12-31 12:20:12 +0000 UTC; Views: 1041; Favourites: 29; Downloads: 15
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On December 17, 1950, Lieutenant-Colonel Bruce H. Hinton of the 4th Fighter Group became the first Sabre pilot to shoot down a MiG fighter jet in the Korean War. Only a few days later, that same group would send a squadron of Sabres against a squadron of MiGs, shooting down six MiGs without losing any Sabres. In recognition of these historic battles, a North American F-86A Sabre in 4th Fighter Group markings is on display at the National Museum of the United States Air Force (Wright-Patterson AFB, Dayton, Ohio).Related content
Comments: 12
The North Korean and Chinese pilots also suffered from the Communist rationale that all fighting men should receive the same treatment regardless of what they did. Instead of treating the flyers like thoroughbred race horses with the best food, rest and training, they got the same bad food and living conditions as the lowest infantrymen. Thus, they could not cope with the rigors of aerial combat the way allied flyers could.
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Plus, the early MiG pilots didn't have G-Suits.
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Another interesting consideration is that a number of Russian veteran pilots from WWII flew the MIGs - Stalin was helping his buddy Kim's efforts to defeat South Korea. Russian pilots were very good. The US knew that Russians were flying MIG 15s, but both the US and USSR never said anything about this during the war. When comparing US pilots to North Korean pilots - no real comparison. When comparing US pilots to Russian pilots, they were much closer in skill (with some Russian pilots better than us and vice versa.
I like how the curators preserved the weathered look - this aircraft looks like it is still flying missions!
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Whatever the details about the relative merits of the planes, it's clear the USAF pilots were better trained, hence the better kill ratio. I am sure the people of South Korea are grateful that it was in fact so. Imagine these poor people having to live under the dreadful Kim Dynasty!! Well done Sabre pilots!
(I have a few photos of the SAAF ones, one of many nations that helped save South Korea).
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MIG-15 (vs) F86 Sabre
===============
+ MIG-15
1) More Heavily armored
2) Could fly higher in altitute
3) Larger bullet ammo in size
4) Still used old fly by wired controls for flaps & wings
5) Harder to control the plane in combat flight.
6) Guns had slow rate of fire
7) Limited ammo.
8) Back ailerons on top of tail fin limited it's speed.
+ F86 Sabre
1) Used lighter metals
2) Had hydraulics controls for flaps & wings
3) MUCH FASTER to control in combat flight.
4) Lot of bullet ammo.
4) More guns on plane.
5) Guns had a much higher rate of fire.
6) Had a early version of targeting radar.
===========================
NOTE:
One North Korean pilot defected just before end of war
in a MIG-15 to a base in South Korea.
Some USA/UK pilots claimed to seen the MIG-15 could fly
at Mach 1 during war.
USAF took MIG-15 back to USA for study and testing.
North Korean pilot says he had to work pumping weights
to more control his plane to make faster turns. He noticed USAF & RAF
plane could turn and wiggle quickly in flight during war.
What they found:
F86 could fly to Mach 1 but plane had to go high in altitute
and go into a power diver to do this.
USAF pilots tried to do same thing with MIG-15, when they got
close to Mach 1 the USAF pilot lost control of plane into a stall..
Luckily he was able to recover and landed safely. MIG-15 could not
fly at Mach 1 as reported because back ailerons on top of
tail acted as a brake. Plane more likely would have broken apart
when it hit Mach 1.
Conclusion from USAF pilots & engineers:
MIG-15 was only GOOD as a plane to shoot down
slow moving bombers (like the B-29) and transports
and to attack stationary ground targets.
Slow rate of fire of plane & limited ammo was a factor.
As a dog fighter it had a lot of problems.
That is why during Korean War for every F86 lost in combat
there was about a dozen or so MIG-15 lost in combat.
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I see you are entirely biased towards the Sabre. In reality, the Sabre was inferior to the MiG-15, since the MiG was more heavily armoured, far more agile and had the advantage of the greater firepower. Don't you know the story that the USAAF once offered $100.000 ($1m in todays currency) to the first North Korean pilot who would join them and bring a undamaged MiG-15 with him?
Also, the Sabre could not fly at Mach 1. It was very close, but no Sabre ever reached it. Attempts to reach Mach 1 with the Sabre commonly ended with the loss of pilot and aircraft, just like the MiG.
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In a TV documentary the North Korean pilot that
defected in a MIG-15 because he did not like the
life he was living in North Korea to start with..
He also said he did not know anything
about this $100,000.oo award for a MIG-15.
He didn't learn about it later until he was told
by the USA military questioning him.
He also said he did not know what exactly
$100,000.oo in USA Dollars was worth to start with.
When, he came to the USA by USAF transport
they supplied him with a CPA/Accountant to
managed and invest the $100K Dollars that
he had gotten.
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The question is: Who made the documentary? Movies and documentaries are usually entirely biased towards their country of origin. This goes for both, NATO and Warszaw Pact.
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This TV documentary I saw one of the USAF test pilots
that test flew the MIG-15, and he stated he was along
with Chuck Yeager(you know first to break sound barrier)
on this testing as well.
I believe this was from the History Channel.
Again, they stated they were not that impressed
with the MIG-15 when they tested it.
The MIG-15 jet was still using the fly by wire system
and for a jet, especially something
that was a fighter it they said it was a bit hard to turn
and operate in flight.
Also, the North Korean pilot that defected in 1953
stated he saw the F86 Sabres and the P-80s in
combat and noticed that the USAF & RAF pilots were
able to wiggle their planes from wing to wing
really quickly.
He he got back to base and reported to his Russian
military trainers along with his other North Korean pilots
and noticed the F86 pilots were able to quickly maneuver
and turn with their planes. They asked what they could
do to compensate and match the USAF/UK jet fighters
ability on turning.
He said the Russian military advisers/trainers reply:
"Well, you guys will have to keep pumping weights
in the gym to get the strength to match this."
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Both planes had strengths and weaknesses that could be played against each other. For example, the MiG-15 was more agile, but had much shorter range than the Saber. Ultimately, a lot of it probably came down to quality of tactics and pilots used.
And the Americans have had a long-standing policy of trying to buy or capture enemy equipment so they can study it and figure out what its weaknesses are. Sometimes they learned that the enemy's equipment was actually kind of junk, like with the Mitsubishi Zero, which was very agile and well armed but proved to be slower than American planes, entirely unarmored, and very very prone to catching fire once hit. The Japanese military's early superiority in air combat proved to have little to do with their airplanes and more to do with the fact that their pilots were more experienced than their American foes in the first months of the war. Once the P-40 Warhawk pilots stopped trying to get into a turning fight with the Zero and switched to high-powered hit-and-run slashing attacks, the balance of combat quickly tipped in their favor.
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That's a pretty biased comparision you got there. The MiG-15bis was on par with the Sabre, if not better.
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