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RobertMacQuarrie1 — Spot the Difference

#america #batman #brothers #captain #civil #comics #dc #fox #funny #iron #man #marvel #movies #superman #war #warner #wb
Published: 2015-11-27 23:26:25 +0000 UTC; Views: 7972; Favourites: 160; Downloads: 31
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Description Just to make this clear, I am not a DC fanboy who is pissed at Marvel for getting all the attention, who thinks that Superman vs Batman is so much better and Captain America: Civil War is going to such.  I am a huge Marvel fan, and I'd take it over DC anyday. I am excited for both films, and am looking forward to seeing what both have to offer. 

The problem, however, is that I knew from seeing the reaction to the Superman vs Batman trailer that anything that Marvel would put out would not get the same sort of criticism.  I've seen both trailers, and both of them strike the same tone to me.  A palpable sense of tension and dread, but balanced with images of a fun comic book spectacle.  I don't see the problem with either trailer.  Yet Superman vs Batman gets criticized for being too "Grim" and "Dark" while Civil War is praised for being "Intense."  


It kind of goes back to a larger issue that I feel is affecting the Marvel movies, in that it has started to develop a bit of a blind fanboyish mentality with their work.  Now, I get this feeling.  I can understand it can come from many different sources.  I myself was once a fan where Marvel could do no wrong, while DC could do no right.  I can understand emotionally tying yourself to a particular mythos or fandom, and it succeeding bolsters your own self esteem.  It's comforting to feel a part of something larger or taking part in a wider community.  And it's distressing if you feel it is coming under an unjust attack, as it it's not just an attack on something you love, but you yourself in a way.  And I can understand wanting something to be a certain way, and not being satisfied when the work that you admire doesn't follow your expectations.  I do understand these factors.


But that being said, sometimes these sort of feelings can be expressed in the wrong way.  Superman as a characters tends to get criticized if his works don't live up to some imaginary, nebulous ideal.  They should just "be" a certain way, and create a certain impact upon the audience and society as a whole, and anything that doesn't live up to that is somehow "wrong."  Some fans on the other hand feel that the attention towards anything else threatens the fandom that they prefer, as if it somehow "steals" attention away from the thing they love.  Or they have an idea in their head as how the movie "should" be and if it doesn't live up to that it's a dismal failure.  

So I kind of feel that there is a lot of unfair criticisms levied at works like Superman vs Batman, or the Fox X-Men films, where works such as the Marvel films get a pass, or have their issues excused, despite the fact that they do the same thing.  Superman vs Batman's tone and color pallet is no different than Civil War or Age of Ultron before it, yet it's the former film that is derided while the later films are celebrated.  X-Men Days of Future Past gets criticized for "changing the story" or "not having real X-Men in it," where something like Captain America: The Winter Soldier can radically change practically every aspect of the story and not get the same criticism.  And the X-Men films can be retroactively be regarded as "awful," or the Superman films made into pure, undiluted golden mana from the heavens, without an honest evaluation of how they actually hold up, done mainly to support or diminish a current work, depending upon what the person is aiming for.  

Will Superman vs Batman be good?  I don't know.  It could suck, or it could be awesome.  I'll wait to see it for myself.  X-Men First Class looked awful to me, but when I saw it it turned out to be a great film.  On the other hand, Age of Ultron and the recent Spectre looked cool in the trailers, but I ended up not really liking them all that much after I saw them in theatres.  All I'm saying it- wait to see the product for itself.  You wanna comment on the trailers, that's fine.  But don't arbitrarily judge a work before you see it, or twist the facts to suit your narrative if you don't like the fact that people are praising a work you want to see fail.  

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Comments: 106

alexjandrito [2022-03-29 10:07:38 +0000 UTC]

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Danielle-van-Blood [2022-03-12 07:39:54 +0000 UTC]

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FlareEmerald77 [2022-03-02 04:07:54 +0000 UTC]

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InvisibleSniper [2022-01-06 23:02:40 +0000 UTC]

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CyotheLion [2021-11-02 05:50:05 +0000 UTC]

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spiderxand [2019-12-05 01:14:08 +0000 UTC]

People can be hypocritical. That is very true. And when we call them out on it, they accuse us of being stupid.

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SaintHeartwing [2019-07-25 11:40:38 +0000 UTC]

Here's my counter argument. The movies leading UP to Civil War, the movie? For the most part, felt "fun". Captain America's introduction, his first movie? Big stakes, but...fun. Iron Man's movies? fun! Avengers? Fun! So you had a ton of FAIRLY light-hearted films...which then, bit by bit, got more intense and serious until we reached this part.

By contrast, DC's new movies started out rather dark right out the gate with Man of Steel. Which didn't feel "fun" to most people. So the "grimness", the "dark" tone...doesn't come across as earned. It comes across as oversaturating. 

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to SaintHeartwing [2019-07-31 05:18:23 +0000 UTC]

Honestly, I don't you really need to provide a counter argument.


Batman V Superman sucked.  Plain and simple.  I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt, not be so hard on it.  But it sucked.  There's no getting around that, and it'd be foolish of me to deny that. 


I thought people were being too hard- and they kind of were- but in the end the movie still sucked and Marvel still turned out a consistently entertaining product. 

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49QnA [2017-12-04 15:06:40 +0000 UTC]

It'd be easier to believe that you aren't a DC fanboy if you didn't make a such a clear strawman here.

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Kraut007 [2017-10-20 14:34:22 +0000 UTC]

Well, I did not care for both movies  
For various reasons, 

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fredreindl2019 [2017-06-29 02:56:22 +0000 UTC]

This reminds me of motion controls with Nintendo and Sony a bit.

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14Darius [2017-05-30 21:42:09 +0000 UTC]

but wasn't the fact that batman making threats like this was out of character. and steve and cap (who were both friends. good friends in the comics and a bit less so in the movies.) being caught between his friends and the law (which by the way isn't out of character for both of them). not saying you haven't just found a person who said this is bad cause its dc. but wasn't the real outcry because of this. 

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EdwardX1 [2016-11-05 00:02:17 +0000 UTC]

Still can't believe you never did reviews on Spider-Verse.

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to EdwardX1 [2016-11-06 03:10:17 +0000 UTC]

Personal things in my life got in the way at the time, and by the time they were resolved, I wasn't in the mood to work on them anymore. I really wasn't in a laughing mood at the time.  

It was all for the best in the end as it would have really just me beating a dead horse.  

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EdwardX1 In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-11-17 03:02:48 +0000 UTC]

I feel that.

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NinjacopEx [2016-07-25 05:34:48 +0000 UTC]

true Words, although dated... sorry for the late comment

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roisepoise101 [2016-04-04 20:49:05 +0000 UTC]

Its all in the delivery of the line and build up. 

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Crisis-Comics [2016-03-13 01:50:25 +0000 UTC]

I think the difference here (At least between the two images here) is:
-BvS: "Batman tries to beat up Superman because he thinks he's a menace". Seems petty.

-Civil War: "Captain America stands between an angry Iron Man and his recovering brainwashed buddy". Seems heroic.

Then again, I could be wrong.

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Crisis-Comics [2016-03-13 05:20:22 +0000 UTC]

Wasn't the big complaint about Man of Steel was that Superman came off as a menace due to his destruction of Metropolis?  And that he was as big of a threat as Zod and the other Kryptonians?  

How "petty" is it if that was also the takeaway from a significant portion of the viewing audience?

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14Darius In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-03-15 12:13:20 +0000 UTC]

actually i'd have to say the reason of the split for these two films is that. they are going to places the comics didn't go to. like superman to my knowledge wasn't treated like a god. (the only one to even put him on that pedestal was lex luthor and only in a way that he'd want to overcome superman.) batman while knowledgeable about other heroes has never been out for blood. they wrote his lines more blood thirsty while pulling out scenes that are in the same dark gritty look as the watchman. heck even superman's costume has darkened a bit. metropolis and gotham have never looked so much alike as they do now. while civil war hasn't changed the tone of the movies. they all have that liked quality were you feel desperate (that intense feeling you stated before.) 

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Xenomaster [2016-02-19 22:41:33 +0000 UTC]

Unlike Cap and Iron Man, Batman and Superman isn't even a contest!

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-19 23:26:36 +0000 UTC]

Neither is Frodo vs Sauron.

Or Luke vs Vader, for most of the original trilogy.  

The point, I feel, isn't to make the match "even."  It's about HOW someone like Batman manages to go up against Superman, and manages to make himself into a significant threat. 

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-20 08:45:46 +0000 UTC]

In many comics, it is evident that Batman will lose in a fight. Superman Sacrifice has him go into the Batcave and put Batman in a coma!

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-20 16:47:21 +0000 UTC]

And Dark Knight returns has Batman "Kick Superman's @$$."  


I mean, granted, Supes was holding back and Batman was cheating the whole time, but the only thing people remember is that Batman "won."  


It's not the even fight that matters.  Its' the rise to the challenge, of seeing HOW Batman manages to make things tough for Superman, that is the interesting thing. 

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-20 16:56:51 +0000 UTC]

Dark Knight Returns was non-canon and written by a batman fanboy, Frank Miller

Plus Batman had help from Carrie Kelly in the Bat Tank and Green Arrow

Then there is just making Batman look good by making armour that can somehow stand up to Superman.

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-20 17:18:26 +0000 UTC]

Again, the point isn't that its' a fair fight.  Its' how someone like Batman rises to the occasion to actually make it a fair fight, or overcome such an obstacle.  That's the appeal.  Not "Superman could kill Batman EASY."


Yes, he could.  But the story isn't "Superman wipes the floor with Batman," but how Batman manages to overcome such obstacles to be a threat to Superman.  Much like how the story of Lord of the Rings is Frodo kicking Sauron's @$$, but overcoming numerous hurdles to take down such a massive threat.

The story is in the journey, not the destination. 

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-20 17:29:40 +0000 UTC]

It does become puzzling when Batman still has trouble with Bane or Joker

Frodo didn't really, that was more of a "critical problem in the villain's plan". You could easily solve it with the eagles 

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-20 17:48:36 +0000 UTC]

Those are different types of fights.  

Bane initially came after Batman, and took the fight to him in his home.  Batman wasn't as prepared for him as he normally is. 

The Joker is more of a psychological enemy than a physical one.  His threat is how unpredictable he is.  A suit of battle armor isn't going to do much good against a man willing to blow up an orphanage just to get Batman's attention.  

And the whole Eagles thing is easily explained- taking that route would have made them easy targets for the Nazghul's, who Sauron could have sent out in force.  Flying in the sky like that would have made them a massive target for Sauron, and easily spotted.  Making the journey over before it even began.  

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-21 18:07:43 +0000 UTC]

Point is, Superman is way too powerful and can only be fought head on

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-21 19:30:59 +0000 UTC]

Hence the intrigue in seeing how someone like Batman can take on someone like Superman who is very powerful and can only be fought head on.  

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-21 19:57:03 +0000 UTC]

Not when he still has problems against the freaking Penguin 

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-21 20:23:27 +0000 UTC]

Not in a straight up fight.  

And if he's prepared for the Penguin, he can take him down.

Batman tends to fight unpredictable opponents with demented psychologies.  It's hard to predict their next move.

But when he is prepared, he's capable of taking down far stronger opponents.  

Again, case in point with Bane.  Bane got the advantage over Batman by wearing him down over the course of several nights, and attacking him in the one place Batman thought he was safe.  But since then every single encounter has gone Batman's way.  Because he was prepared for Bane from that point on.  

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-21 20:25:19 +0000 UTC]

Cluemaster once beat him by making him think someone big was behind a large event

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-21 20:27:01 +0000 UTC]

So, again, a psychological attack that Batman wasn't prepared for.

I notice that you didn't mention that Cluemaster beat him in a straight up fight.  

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-21 20:29:40 +0000 UTC]

?

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RobertMacQuarrie1 In reply to Xenomaster [2016-02-21 20:32:27 +0000 UTC]

You said that Cluemaster beat Batman.  But it wasn't in a straight up fight.  It was by tricking him.  

In other words, not something Batman could prepare for.  It was misdirection.  

Cluemaster or the Penguin haven't "Outfought" Batman.  Batman has trouble with their SCHEMES.  Not with these individuals in a fight.  Fighting one on one, or even against a group, Batman is next to impossible to beat.  Even against stronger opponents.  And especially when he has time to prepare. 

Also remember, while Penguin is one of his tougher foes... so is the likes of Killer Croc, Man-Bat and Clayface.  And he is usually capable of taking those baddies out, sometimes very easily if he has the right gadget on him. 

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Xenomaster In reply to RobertMacQuarrie1 [2016-02-23 19:43:15 +0000 UTC]

I know, that's what I meant

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TopcowImage2dF [2016-01-21 08:42:57 +0000 UTC]

I agree with this so much.  Never understood hype surround the MCU.   I mean they have some good films but best superhero movies ever? I think no.

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TheScarletMercenary [2016-01-19 05:54:14 +0000 UTC]

I'll see both of them before I will make my judgments.

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chaosBrushogun [2016-01-17 16:15:14 +0000 UTC]

I agree. The marvel movies are still really good, but I've noticed that in age of ultron, the writers have taken to a bit of laziness.

My main problem with that film stand at ultron

Ah, Ultron. One of the greatest villian in the marvel villians, an AI with a megalomaniac personality with a desire to take over the world. 
...and he is by far the weakest villian in any marvel movie by far and wide....how?
How do you fuck up the comic book version of Skynet?! 

His intentions are never directly started. He has the most vaguest bad guy dialogue I've ever seen and him being built by Tony instead of Hank pym was Pointless! So lazy!

Marvel needs to clean up their act in civil war.

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Anicomicgeek [2015-12-29 16:33:44 +0000 UTC]

That's about how I feel: and I've noticed that some people will bash modern DC and any non-Marvel Studios Marvel movie, but will overlook or ignore many of those same flaws and changes in Marvel Studios and classic DC films.

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Th3-M4ster [2015-12-29 11:31:54 +0000 UTC]

I can't speak for everyone else, but it's important to realize a few key differences about the trailer for these two movie that I have seen (and yes, I feel the same way about the trailers as the fanboys in your comic).

1. History: The Marvel characters have multiple films behind them and we have been getting the slow burn of Cap vs Tony ever since the first Avengers film. We have grown to like these characters during the funny, serious, dramatic and even sillier moments of their films. To see them go at it while admitting that part of them regrets it has come to blows resonates with me. The new DC cinematic universe does not have that, and to many they seem to be trying too hard too quickly to be 'edgier' than Marvel.

2. Characters: Again, when it comes to Marvel films, we know them and have grown attachments. We just met this new Superman (who after making out with Lois in the ashes of a partially destroyed Metropolis and then snapped Zod's neck sure as hell didn't FEEL like any Superman I know) and we had to get used the idea of Affleck taking on the role of Batman (not hating them guy) how are we supposed to care that they are going to fight? And don't get me started on Wonder Woman...

3. Visual Style: You might have noticed it too, but the scene with Batman and Superman is chalked full of "cool" atmosphere. A dark stormy night and a one liner. Civil War, on the other and, had a quick, personal dialogue between former friends. Look at the setting of Batman v Superman and tell me that they aren't trying a little too hard.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to both films, I simply have some reservations about one of them.

Thanks for sharing!

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Danielle-van-Blood [2015-12-22 06:19:02 +0000 UTC]

Question:
Do you think that MCU affects Marvel's comic books? I mean, I hear a lot of dispute about whether Iron Man would be as popular as he is today if Iron Man never made it on the big screen? The same goes for Guardians of the Galaxy and Thor.

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Ziggyman [2015-12-10 19:43:22 +0000 UTC]

Really, you nailed it.
I'm more of a DC because I grew with the DC characters more than with the Marvel characters and I like the more, but also like some of the Marvel characers and concepts.I learn to appreciate Marvel when I was more grow up. And the Marvel movies had been fantastic.  But it's truth than DC is under a bigger criticism than the Marvel movies. And the Marvel movies had their faults too: the formulaic plots and the unfair treatment for their villians. But that was the Marvel strategy before, create fans not for their characters but for their universe.  
Until now the only DC movie (that is in the DC Extended Universe) is Man of Steel and now BvS, where Superman and Batman (and Wonder Woman) are going to found themselves for first time. It have a different tone, darker? Yes, it its have, but I thank it because is different from the first Superman. If it would have the same tone than Marvel, then the critic would be than DC was copying Marvel.

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iceblueflare [2015-12-09 13:02:03 +0000 UTC]

I believe the negativity towards Batman v. Superman comes from the complaints about Man of Steel - wich I really don't think it deserves, to say the truth.
Altough I'm more Marvel then DC, I'm not very excited about Civil War - the storyline left a very bitter taste on my mouth. Despite all of this, I still intend to see both films.

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EdwardX1 [2015-12-09 07:28:31 +0000 UTC]

I have to agree.
My only real complaint about Batman v Superman is Lex Luthor and the clusterfuck of heroes we're gonna get.
I know Civil War will be a bit of a clusterfuck, but at least most of the characters in that have had previous development.

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AdrenalineRush1996 [2015-12-02 11:02:37 +0000 UTC]

I agree with you on this.

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OneCreator [2015-12-02 10:08:14 +0000 UTC]

I really see what you mean, a lot of people I know basically pass of every single Marvel movie as pure gold when that's not the truth! I love a lot of them,  but there's still some that are really just alright. Yeah, I just don't know, as soon as these movies came out it's suddenly become a sin to be a DC fan :/

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BD3D [2015-12-01 15:52:01 +0000 UTC]

Completely agree with what you wrote!  
That's exactly how I feel too!
I just hope both Marvel and DC make great movies!  

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ctdsnark [2015-12-01 02:54:31 +0000 UTC]

I will see Superman Vs Batman,but I must admit I'm feeling a certain apprehension.
When Joel Schumacher took over the Batman movies,and did Batman Forever,I loved the fact that he didn't try to imitate Burton's style. But when he did Batman And Robin...well...I pretty much hated it for the same reasons everybody else did.
And then Christopher Nolan took over,and I loved Batman Begins,largely because it was a far cry from Schumacher's technicolor cartoon. But his next two Batmans...the whole world may have loved them,but I didn't.I found them ponderous and full of themselves. I hated Heath Ledger's Joker,and I especially hated the fact that it wasn't Batman who didn't personally beat the crap out of Bane,or that Talia Al'Ghul didn't live long enough to learn that her plan failed.
I did like Man Of Steel...and I'm sure my negative memory of Superman Returns was a factor...but as I said at the beginning,what I've seen of Superman Vs Batman is making me a little uneasy.

But I will see it...hell,this past summer,I chose to ignore all the bad things I was hearing about the new Fantastic Four and decided to give it a chance. I didn't like it,but still...

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