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Published: 2017-01-09 22:22:35 +0000 UTC; Views: 8000; Favourites: 84; Downloads: 124
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Here's Lenin-3. I actually had this one finished for years, and only recently upgraded the map to match my modern style and to add the Moon colonies. It's an interesting if rather implausible timeline, where Mussolini stays socialist and then manages to become leader of Italy anyway. I suspect the PoD is that Mussolini does not oppose the Italian socialists' desire to maintain neutrality, and does not fight in WWI. He then leads the Italian socialists to victory in revolution in the 1920s, possibly supported by the Soviets. SJG does say that he intervenes on behalf of the Catalan workers in the Spanish Civil War and does not help the Soviets during WWII, so if they did support him, then he's not very grateful. I have Spain coming under the control of a syndicalist "Third Republic" that stays neutral along with Italy. Mexico being socialist was SJG's idea; not really sure what's going on there. I picture the Soviets being less successful during WWII, not entering the German Reich proper, while the Western Allies manage to take it, restore the Weimar Republic (albeit under a much-improve constitution), and break off bits of Germany so they never become powerful enough to start another war. SJG mentions the US-UK alliance becoming more technocratic with its "Manhattan Initiatives;" beyond expanding the US-UK alliance, I didn't really do much with that. No Atlantropa or stupid shit like that. I added Russia and India into the Grand Alliance, and I suspect both of them are doing better than their OTL counterparts. Same with China and Brazil, who are leading their "middle of the road" Third World Order. After the collapse of the USSR, there isn't much of a Cold War left, but to say that Italy and the West are buddies would be inaccurate.ΒRelated content
Comments: 26
MaddKossack115 [2018-11-19 23:48:36 +0000 UTC]
Ok, I'm a bit late to the party on this: Considering Mussolini has an Italo-Soviet Split while maintaining an alliance with the CNT-FAI, I'd assume that means he (ironically) takes a more... well, for lack of any better words, "anti-authoritarian" stance, most likely out of pure pragmatism against Stalin's paranoia and betrayals.Β Which come to think of it, may honestly make him look like Tito's Yugoslavia, in that he's more "neutral" than the USSR, which would explain why his so-called Socialsit Axis survives all the way into 2004 (possibly with his successors becoming more "state capitalist" like post-Mao China) explaining why it isn't either crushed from invasion or overthrown from uprisings.
As for Mexico, I'm also not sure why SJG did that (besides maybe making the Red Scare "closer to home", and giving a slightly more plausible enemy than Cuba), but I think a good model is Kaiserreich, in that Zapata's revolution succeeds, but its future after that remained uncertain until Mussolini (somehow) intervened (www.reddit.com/r/Kaiserreich/c⦠).
Considering that Kaiserreich!Cardenas, ironically, is the Mexican SocDem candidate (and that all but the Totalist options for socialist Mexico are far more democratic than how you've described Mexico, by virtue of staying a multi-party system: i.imgur.com/a7ZQo69.jpg ), I think the Maximato party of Plutarco Calles (i.imgur.com/ykZSF5Z.jpg ) is what really takes power, and while it also probably "de-escalates" its more authoritarian powers to live into the modern day (assuming it hasn't become a North Korea "We can't invade because of all the nukes" situation), I would agree it is still is a one-party state, and has anti-clerical laws on the books (again, likely toned down, but still omnipresent enough that Catholicism is all but powerless in Mexico, and likely had also been chased out of Italy and Spain due to pre-fascist Mussolini's and the CNT-FAIs anti-Catholic views - I'd assume the "Vatican in Exile" would be based in Brazil, due to the size of the country, the high Catholic population, and its likely anti-socialist politics)
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Whiteshore1 [2017-05-27 12:21:35 +0000 UTC]
Is a good analogy for Italian-Western relations the relationship between the US and the PRC?
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BagelBagelBagel [2017-01-11 01:48:59 +0000 UTC]
Perhaps there was an ideological split between the USSR and Italy during the latter 20s or 30s after the civil war.
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PinkJenkin [2017-01-10 18:40:21 +0000 UTC]
As far as the Lenins go, this world is downright cheerful. Probably because there aren't a lot of communists in it.
Weird detail to focus on, but is that extra piece of Russia in OTL south-east Belarus based on a historical border of some sort?
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RvBOMally In reply to PinkJenkin [2017-01-10 18:46:19 +0000 UTC]
Yes, it is based on a historical border.
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grisador [2017-01-10 09:17:38 +0000 UTC]
Wait; japan is not go to space; but italy goes ?
That's new
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WatcherInThePuddle [2017-01-10 00:35:55 +0000 UTC]
If Spain is syndicalist instead of just republican they wouldn't have held onto Moroccan territory.Β
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RvBOMally In reply to WatcherInThePuddle [2017-01-10 01:08:22 +0000 UTC]
They decided to keep it because they seized it from the Nationalists without Moroccan assistance, and there was sentiment that since they bled for that territory, they should keep it.
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PersephoneEosopoulou [2017-01-09 23:37:15 +0000 UTC]
I've never been fond ofΒ Atlantropa but what exactly makes it stupid?
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RvBOMally In reply to PersephoneEosopoulou [2017-01-09 23:40:35 +0000 UTC]
It would just cause expansion of the Sahara, instead of creating new farmland.Β
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PersephoneEosopoulou In reply to RvBOMally [2017-01-09 23:48:15 +0000 UTC]
Ah I take it nobody really stops to consider that?
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RvBOMally In reply to PersephoneEosopoulou [2017-01-10 02:23:37 +0000 UTC]
Sometimes it's handwaved away for the sake of the world working on weird physics.Β
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PachPachis [2017-01-09 22:53:47 +0000 UTC]
This was always my favorite of the Lenins, aside from Terradyne, of course. Great job!
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RvBOMally In reply to PachPachis [2017-01-09 22:54:42 +0000 UTC]
That might come last, since I'll have to do more reading on it. Lenin-5, by contrast, is easy.
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RyuDrago [2017-01-09 22:30:54 +0000 UTC]
Well nice to see a setting where Italy is the leader of a block in an ATL once in a while...
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RvBOMally In reply to RyuDrago [2017-01-09 22:42:03 +0000 UTC]
Given the historical circumstances, it's not likely. However, I did see a timeline where Italy and Germany flip their fates. I might do an Axis victory cover of that....
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RyuDrago In reply to RvBOMally [2017-01-09 22:52:59 +0000 UTC]
What about a divergence paths TL? Italy never allies with Germany, no racial laws, and wanks in the Balkans during WWII (due to a third Balkan war); then could have spread in Africa and Middle East, and support extreme right dictactorships in South America... Let's say a tripolar cold war setting between USSR USA and fascist Italy.
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RvBOMally In reply to RyuDrago [2017-01-09 22:54:18 +0000 UTC]
I think I did something along those lines, actually.
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RyuDrago In reply to RvBOMally [2017-01-09 22:57:41 +0000 UTC]
I see! But what about a "Fascist Union of States" TL? Opposed as third way between the Soviet and the American Unions (well as a pretension to annex at least the Balkans with Italy)
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RvBOMally In reply to RyuDrago [2017-01-09 22:58:44 +0000 UTC]
They didn't annex the Balkans, though.Β
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RyuDrago In reply to RvBOMally [2017-01-09 23:05:26 +0000 UTC]
Oh I remember this timeline - the main Italian after 1900 wank you did! In fact I faved it immediately.
Still my suggestion is moving over more realistic lines and events.
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RvBOMally In reply to RyuDrago [2017-01-09 23:40:54 +0000 UTC]
Hm, maybe I'll do that in the future.Β
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RyuDrago In reply to RvBOMally [2017-01-10 06:28:52 +0000 UTC]
I would be thankful and interested!
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