HOME | DD

Published: 2014-12-19 15:07:25 +0000 UTC; Views: 25346; Favourites: 136; Downloads: 218
Redirect to original
Description
Another TL-191 scenario, based on the rumor that Turtledove originally intended to have the Central Powers lose the Great War and have Gordon McSweeny act as the Hitler analogue in North America.Β---
In retrospect, the rise of the Central Powers of the Second Great War was an inevitable result of the Central Powers' defeat after the first Great War. The Treaty of Versailles blamed Germany and the United States for the war, despite that conflict having begun as an Austro-Russian conflict. That bitter desires for revenge would arise from this post-war order is predictable. In Germany, the Nazi Party under Adolf Hitler found popularity among those who saw victory as being within Germany's grasp by spinning a narrative that blamed the Jews (as they were a popular scapegoat) and the Italians (as they had joined the Entente in spite of their treaties with Germany). In the United States, Gordon McSweeny's Patriot Party promised to defeat the Confederacy and avenge the North's three defeats, and to do so with the help of the one true God. In Turkey, the pan-Turanist movement called for the return of the Ottoman Empire's golden days and the destruction of the Entente-created Republic of Turkey. These three defeated powers were joined by the Japanese, an Entente power that nonetheless felt snubbed by the racist Entente leaders, particularly Confederate president Woodrow Wilson, and sought to create an Asia for the Japanese.
The Second Great War began in 1941, when the Russian tsar died and the Germans took advantage of a renewed Bolshevik uprising to launch an invasion of Russia. This prompted a declaration of war from Britain and France, but the Germans anticipated this move and ensured that a good portion of the German Wehrmacht was ready to strike West. The Entente, expecting the Germans to establish a foothold in Russia before turning their forces against France, were caught by surprise by the Wehrmacht's blitzkrieg tactics, which took over France in a mere six weeks and destroyed the British Expeditionary Force at Dunkirk. Once secured, the Germans waged simultaneous campaigns against Russia and Italy, this time with the support of the new, modernized Panturanian Army. In the East, Japan launched attacks against France and Britain's colonial holdings, easily overrunning them before becoming bogged down in India.
In the meanwhile, the Americans joined their German allies by declaring war on the United Kingdom and Confederate States. Blitzkrieg tactics were used to drive down the Mississippi, splitting the Confederacy in two, while the U.S. Army moved to secure Canada. With the war in Germany a priority for London, Canada fell, leaving the Confederacy at the mercy of their industrially superior northern neighbor. Once the Americans began their strategic bombing campaign, the Confederacy was done for, and by 1944 the CSA was no more after the world's first superbomb was detonated in Richmond by American spies.
By 1945, only Britain and Russia continued the war against the Central Powers. The first German superbomb, dropped on Moscow, and the American invasion of Russia forced Russia out of the war in May of 1945. Britain remained, but German-American bombing campaigns and the destruction of the Royal Navy at the hands of its American counterpart meant defeat was inevitable. The second American superbomb was dropped over Glasgow, with a second German bomb dropped over London. On August of 1945, what remained of the British government unconditionally surrendered to the Central Powers, but resistance to German and American occupation continued until 1946.
The Central Powers divided the world amongst themselves, and quickly became rivals to one another. There was no room in the world for several global hegemons, after all. Two general blocs formed, between the Western (America and Germany) and Eastern (Turkey and Japan) Central powers. The massive armies of the Second Great War were not demobilized, but maintained to face off against each other and to secure the occupied territories. Radiological, biological and chemical weapons would be used against major areas of unrest. Massacres were commonplace against occupied populations, not to mention the genocide of Jews in Germany and Mormons in America.
It is the year 2010, and the world stands at the precipice of destruction. The Americans are the most powerful of the great powers. President McSweeny may have died in 1961, but his legacy lives on and his successors rule from the White House with an iron fist. Standing supreme over the entire Western Hemisphere, the Holy States of America spreads its message of Protestant theocracy all over its new empire. Catholics are heavily discriminated against, and in areas of major Catholic unrest entire villages may be lined up against a wall. Land is taken from Catholic families and given to Protestants. Those Confederates that are found to be insufficiently loyal are relocated to South America. Fortunately, the station of American blacks has been raised, as the Americans have found them eager enforcers of the Patriot Party's order in the former Confederacy. Many black families have taken over the assets of Confederates that had been relocated, and quite a few Patriot Party officials from the South are black. The American military is the largest in the world, possessing the largest navy and air force on the planet. The American military's force projection capabilities are unrivaled, and as it possesses half of the aircraft carriers in the world, its position as the new ruler of the waves is unchallenged.
Germany has not fared as well as America, as the power struggles after Hitler's death caused a great deal of instability. The French Revolts of the 1970s caused a three-year war that ended with Paris' superbombing and the relocation of a quarter of France's remaining population to the slave farms of the East. But the Greater German Empire survived that challenge and has since further secured its dominant position over Europe. The Nazis' racial policies have been law for generations, with Slavs and Italians slaving away under the leash of the SS. The Jews have been all but wiped out, although Jewish populations notably live on in Japan as Tokyo took German antisemitic propaganda as promoting Jewish capabilities in financial and political domination. The German space program is far ahead of any other nation's, and the Germans alone have raumfahrers in orbit at all times.
The Panturan Empire is a rather shaky entity, but one that has take advantage of its oil wealth to buy the loyalties of local leaders and to ensure that it has a modern army capable of fighting against the Wehrmacht. Much of Panturan's oil revenue comes from Germany, in spite of Berlin's constant attempts to gain energy independence, although their Japanese allies are equally dependent on Panturanian oil. By building infrastructure and promoting the interests of Turkish and/or secular groups, the Panturanians have managed to secure much of the territory they have gained after the Second Great War. But make no mistake, the Panturanians are just as eager to use the stick as they are the carrot, as the Kurds have learned. In the former Russian Empire, Istanbul promotes Islamic culture to oppose Russian Orthodox Christianity, although the danger of creating radicalized Islamist movements just as eager to fight Turkey is never explored by Turkish intelligence agencies.
In the East, the Japanese Empire struggles to hold onto its Asian empire. Challenged by the United States Navy and constant revolts in China and Southeast Asia, Japan is just as militarized as it was during the Second Great War. Garrison forces are still necessary in China, and even the firebombing of Peking after its takeover by the "New Boxers" has only led to more resistance in China. Granted, the modern Japanese military is far more advanced than the armies and fleets that won in 1945. Japan's fleets of unmanned drones, a technology that the other great powers are racing to emulate, have become a common sight in the skies over Asia, smiting any who oppose Tokyo. The Japanese space program is also rather advanced, with Japan having the second largest amount of stations in orbit.
Related content
Comments: 42
XamuelReyes [2025-01-23 18:59:52 +0000 UTC]
π: 0 β©: 0
EASTFverse [2024-11-09 08:31:15 +0000 UTC]
π: 0 β©: 0
BrutalityInc In reply to thefeedle [2019-11-19 01:28:35 +0000 UTC]
Harry Turtledove's most famous alternate history series, which postulates what happens if the Confederacy won the American Civil War. Let's just say that our world is much better off than that one.Β
π: 0 β©: 0
RtasVader [2017-05-25 03:46:54 +0000 UTC]
Are you telling me that the Samurai fear the Jews?
π: 0 β©: 0
Whiteshore1 [2016-12-15 12:26:14 +0000 UTC]
Is what Admiral Halsey said about the Japanese language (that it will only be spoken in hell) close to coming true for the Armenian language?
π: 0 β©: 1
Whiteshore1 [2016-08-07 11:27:04 +0000 UTC]
Are Sweden and Switzerland ruled by their local *Fascist movements or are they still democratic?
π: 0 β©: 1
metalheadjohn [2016-06-09 19:14:19 +0000 UTC]
1. which nation is the wealthiest and which is the poorest?
2. what differences are there between OTL Nazi Germany and TL 191 Nazi Germany?
3. which country has the most advanced technology and which has the least advanced.
4. have any of the countries landed on the Moon? if so, which one(s)?
5. what kind of people have the best and worst chances of survival in the four nations?
π: 0 β©: 1
Freedim In reply to metalheadjohn [2016-06-14 21:21:34 +0000 UTC]
1. Wealthiest: Holy States. Poorest: probably Japan or the Panturanian Empire (most likely the former).
2. This Nazi Germany successfully implemented its final solution. They attacked Russia first and Britain and France second, instead of the other way around. Etc. Etc.
3. Depends. Military: most advanced is America, but the others after it are not that far behind. Space: most advanced is Germany, you can tell the poorest is either America or the Paturanian Empire (most likely the latter) because he doesn't mention them as even having space programs (which I'm sure they do, they're just in third or fourth place at least)
4. Yes. Germany first, America second.
5. Best: Protestants, Blacks (in America), Arabs, Catholics (to the point that they aren't killed and simply discriminated), etc. Worst: Jews, Blacks (outside of America), Chinese, homosexuals, Koreans, etc. Italians are a little bit in the middle.
π: 0 β©: 0
metalheadjohn [2016-06-01 19:18:44 +0000 UTC]
1. which Nation is most likely to survive the 21st century and which one isn't?
2. which nation is most tolerated by the people it rules over and which nation is least tolerated?
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to metalheadjohn [2016-06-01 20:27:21 +0000 UTC]
1. United States and Germany.Β
2. Japan and Germany.Β
π: 0 β©: 0
Freedim [2015-12-27 17:01:38 +0000 UTC]
What's the point of divergence in this version of the Great War? Why is it that the central powers lose?
π: 0 β©: 2
Freedim In reply to Freedim [2015-12-27 21:34:18 +0000 UTC]
Then what's the point of divergence in 'gone horribly wrong' instead of 'gone horribly right'?
π: 0 β©: 0
RvBOMally In reply to Freedim [2015-12-27 18:52:43 +0000 UTC]
I honestly haven't thought any of that out.
π: 0 β©: 0
Freedim [2015-10-23 22:48:53 +0000 UTC]
Is there a map and timeline where the confederacy and entrant win this version of the second Great War?
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to Freedim [2015-10-23 22:58:38 +0000 UTC]
Yes.Β Timeline-191: Gone Horribly Right
π: 0 β©: 0
Historyman14 [2015-09-13 04:16:40 +0000 UTC]
How does the people in the south, and the old Entente view the war?Β
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to Historyman14 [2015-09-13 04:34:58 +0000 UTC]
"I wish we'd won, otherwise we wouldn't be slaves to these totalitarian maniacs."Β
π: 0 β©: 1
metalheadjohn In reply to RvBOMally [2016-04-07 21:13:19 +0000 UTC]
makes me think of man in the high castle.
π: 0 β©: 0
amazon6ft [2015-07-26 01:35:46 +0000 UTC]
This is actually what would have happened if America didn't get involved WW2. Turkey conquer all of Eastern Europe. I'm Sure either Germany, Japan, or a Neo-Mongol/Hunnic Empire would conquer Russia/Siberia/Central Asia.
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to amazon6ft [2015-07-26 02:49:17 +0000 UTC]
I really don't think that Turkey would be able to do anything remotely like this in OTL, and the Germans and Japanese would have ultimately lost against the UK and Soviet Union. The only difference would be that the Soviets dominate all of Eurasia.Β
π: 0 β©: 1
amazon6ft In reply to RvBOMally [2015-07-26 03:44:33 +0000 UTC]
Non- Alternate timeline: Turks had a dominant empire for a nearly a millennia and despite rebellions they held on to the empire. The Ottomans(Turks) fought with an outdated Chivalric Code. The Problem is they couldn't keep with spying, and sabotage. The Brits stirred up rebellions within the Extended Ottoman empire WW1 and used Greece to spy on the Ottomans. Karma hit the Brits after WW2 they lost their empire and were no longer a super power. Also don't underestimate the Japanese for such a small nation they Defeated Russia WW1, and even the Polish had some stunning victories WW1 over the Russians. The United States Anglo-sphere interference tipped the tide both WW1 and WW2. Hilariously the Brits with help from Canada, Australia, and Soviet Union couldn't tip the tide against Germany, Italy or Japan WW2. Smaller nations like Turkey, Italy, Japan, and Germany taking on the entire world is impressive. The Allies took some embarrassing casualties both WW1 and WW2. The numbers were on the side of U.S. and Soviets and today we see the results of WW2 an Anglo(UK, and United States)-Russian monopoly on the entire world.
I like smaller nations with stunning victories over larger developed nations: Finland vs Soviets, Afghans vs Soviets, Vietnam vs U.S., Ethiopia vs Italy etc.
PS: I didn't read the description that this was based on a book. I just read alternate timeline.
It would be cool to See a Neo-Hunnic/Mongol, or South Asian empire.
π: 0 β©: 0
grisador [2015-05-10 11:37:33 +0000 UTC]
ALSO; I don't see anything soo... 'Wrong' ; Β Β Β
Japans Turks Americans and Germans have Empire... Everybody Wins ! (Almost; but this is the far most) Β Β
(JustΒ connivance some really Really small fallout fields; which they can cleaned up; and Voila !)
π: 0 β©: 0
grisador [2014-12-27 23:24:01 +0000 UTC]
Wow the Siberia Δ°rony on Russia....
Afraid to ask but Δ± must; Does the Panturanian Empire is hardcore muslim or Secular actiwities are allowed
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to grisador [2014-12-27 23:33:36 +0000 UTC]
It's actually a secular state where Islamist extremism is promoted only in majority Christian areas.Β
π: 0 β©: 1
grisador In reply to RvBOMally [2014-12-28 10:28:57 +0000 UTC]
Wow ! Then its a 'really' suprising progress !
π: 0 β©: 0
PersephoneEosopoulou [2014-12-19 23:23:42 +0000 UTC]
The German timeline 191 Congo was mentioned to be bad enough but a Nazi 191 Congo, sweet jesus that sounds absolutely horrid.
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to PersephoneEosopoulou [2014-12-20 00:57:07 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, Germany's equivalent to Unit 731 operates there.
π: 0 β©: 1
Matthew-Travelmaster [2014-12-19 23:02:35 +0000 UTC]
And Switzerland and Sweden are still all neutral? Or are the somewhat 'Finnlandized' here?
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to Matthew-Travelmaster [2014-12-20 01:00:30 +0000 UTC]
Yeah, neutral but they do what Germany wants them to.
π: 0 β©: 0
Zarmarza [2014-12-19 20:39:21 +0000 UTC]
So what happened to Somalia and the rest of the horn?Β
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to Zarmarza [2014-12-20 00:57:41 +0000 UTC]
Gained independence from Italy after its defeat.
π: 0 β©: 1
Zarmarza In reply to RvBOMally [2014-12-20 10:27:36 +0000 UTC]
Oh I see, so are the Dervish in power?
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to Zarmarza [2014-12-20 16:50:03 +0000 UTC]
Nah, military strongmen are in charge.Β
π: 0 β©: 0
kyuzoaoi [2014-12-19 15:52:56 +0000 UTC]
Well, this alt-191 scenario is even more insane than the Axis Victory TLs I've seen. The OTL Nazis might be crept at the fact that the alt-Nazi Germany is allied with the HS.
π: 0 β©: 2
Eluxivo In reply to kyuzoaoi [2014-12-19 19:33:09 +0000 UTC]
not much of an alliance more like they telling themselves"they may be violent uber-capitalist warmongering mongrels but they are violent uber-capitalist warmongering mongrelsΒ on our side"
π: 0 β©: 1
RvBOMally In reply to Eluxivo [2014-12-19 20:08:40 +0000 UTC]
The Patriot Party are actually somewhat anti-capitalist (they take Jesus' words on rich men a bit more seriously than the OTL religious right), having an economic position closer to Huey Long. They actually competed with the Socialists for the poor vote by appealing to Christian charitability, and that worked to an extent.
π: 0 β©: 0
RvBOMally In reply to kyuzoaoi [2014-12-19 16:00:50 +0000 UTC]
I think OTL's Nazis would just be pleased that they triumphed in Europe.Β
π: 0 β©: 0