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SaritysAnimation β Struggle For Control
Published: 2013-04-10 02:46:24 +0000 UTC; Views: 18782; Favourites: 1000; Downloads: 106
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I'll leave it at that.Related content
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Wow, all the hate in the comments... Have you people calling abortion a "murder" considered that the victims of rape might want to have it? Would it be better to raise a child you got from an angry intercourse that scarred you for life than to end it before your kid turns f*cked up because he/she's born out of it? Imagine yourself being a kid whose father raped your mother, and you're the result of it, the result of your mother's pain. That you weren't truly wanted.
I do think that people should think twice before having unprotected sex, if they are not ready to have a child. Abortion is only a means to an end for those who know they can't love or care for their children.
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I do say abortion is murder because I believe that life begins at conception. Because at 18-24 days after conception, that baby has a heart beat, that child can feel pain 8 weeks after conception. Yes, it is sad when a girl or a woman gets raped, however no one truly knows how that child's life will be or who they will become. The bond between a mother and her child is deeper than most people realize. Women who use abortion to rid themselves of their problem can become depressed or suicidal because they regret it in the end. And for your information, only .3% of abortions are because of rape, .2% for the protection of the mother's life, and .03% for incest.
If you truly believe that it is better for that child to have their life ended so soon just so that they don't have to "experience the horrors of life" fine, that is your opinion. I just find it upsetting that people use rape or incest as a scapegoat so that abortion can be used as a type of birth control.
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Murder is a legal term, it means "the unlawful slaying of a person." So abortion is not murder. It's KILLING, but not murder.
The fetus cannot feel pain at 8 weeks, that's a complete myth. You need an active brain and a functioning nervous system to feel pain, and the fetus doesn't have either of those until 22 weeks.
Aaaand I just realized I replied to you already! Well . . . have another reply.
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It's nice to have another reply. Sorry that the other one is so long, this one will be shorter. I can give you this one, it is killing and not murder because it is not unlawful to kill a fetus. I can't wait for your reply to my other reply. xD
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I know this might sound crazy, but in my mind a child is alive when he takes his first breath and makes his first cry. I can't deny the real facts of course, but that's how I think of it. Don't jump on me ok?
True, some people take abortion way too lightly and use it like a condom to control birth. And besides victims of rape, what about people with health problems? If the mother would die during the pregnancy or birth, wouldn't it be alright to have an abortion? There are people with more reason and cause to have it than some who carelessly abuse it, and that can't be helped. But we know that it is there for a reason, some people just have worse reasons than others.
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Sorry that my first reply was harsh.
To begin with, is it ever necessary for a woman to have an abortion to save her life? Four hundred and eighty physicians have signed a public declaration stating: βI agree that there is never a situation in the law or in the ethical practice of medicine where a preborn childβs life need be intentionally destroyed by procured abortion for the purpose of saving the life of the mother.β Their names are right on this website: [link]
And I believe that too. Medicine has evolved greatly and to say that there is nothing else, besides having an abortion, can save a pregnant woman due to health problems is appalling. There is always another way, yet some doctors are selfish enough to where they would tell their pregnant patient that having an abortion is the only way to save their life.
As for when the mother is giving birth and something does go wrong to where it is possible that both lives can be lost, it is the doctors duty to save the mother's life. If the fetus dies and it was not intentional, then it was not an abortion. An abortion is to intentionally kill a fetus or embryo. If the doctor intentionally kills the fetus to save the mother's life while she is giving birth is wrong and immoral.
Now, you believe that a child's life begins when they take their first breath and make their first cry. However, to bring up a scenario...
Lets say an adult gets hurt badly enough to where they are on the floor and not responding. Another person would check to see if they are breathing first. If they are not breathing, they check to see if their heart if beating and if it is, that person is still alive. It is believed that when the heart stops beating that the person is dead, not when they stop breathing.
To go further into the development of a fetus, within the first trimester (12 weeks) brainwaves can be recorded, the gender can be determined, fingers can be flexed and make fists, legs can kick and toes can curl, all the vital organs are formed and are working, it can turn its head, make facial movements like smiling and frowning, it can even open its mouth and practice breathing. Yet the lungs aren't fully formed so its not really breathing, but it knows. In fact, the fetus can detect sounds as early as 16 weeks or 3 months into the pregnancy. I ask you to read this article and see how amazing and alive a fetus is. It is not just dead weight or a simple parasite that feeds off the mother. It is a living being.
[link]
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I think it's amazing that people have such different views on what is ethically right and what is wrong. Of course I don't mean that they should outright kill the baby when the mother's dying, of course they should look for an alternative way so that both can be saved. That's what medical science is striving for, to lessen the casualties and save more. But when it comes down to it, would you rather save the unborn child, where as I would save the mother? I don't think there really is only one true answer to such question.
The scenario you presented about the unconscious person is, of course, right. There's no denying that heart beat is the definition of life. I read the article you linked but there really wasn't any new information for me. I'm not sure how I would best describe my theory of being born and "starting to live", so I'll have to drop it. It's just something I've thought of long time ago and stuck with til now.
Sorry for the short reply.
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As for the rape, let me say that no matter how it happened, most mothers in the world will love the child they conceive. It's a freaking child. They aren't going to think of him/her as a hindrance their entire life. They will raise them. You thin of it as if the child is not another person. I understand that there may be some emotional disabilities, but the mother will still love the child. A lot of women who have had abortions say that they regret doing it because they feel the ever-looming feeling of remorse; a feeling of sadness. I understand where you are coming from, and don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the mother needs to suffer, but that child is alive. It just needs a specific environment to grow in before it can handle the world.
Abortions have to be done inside of the mother's fetus, or it's considered murder. The doctor will pull everything except the child's head out and go in with scissors t o complete the job. This is one of the many mortifying ways that abortions happen. It's also why some people call it murder, because, by law, it is a few inches away from being so.
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No, most mothers will NOT love the child they conceive, especially if it was created through rape. That just plays into the sexist, silly idea that woman are inherently nurturing. We aren't, we're people with all different kinds of personalities.
That is a complete and utter myth, abortion does not happen like that. The two most common abortion techniques are with the woman swallowing a pill and sitting over a toilet for a few hours, or the doctor suctioning it out with a medical vacuum. Please research something before trying to talk about it.
And no, it isn't anywhere close to murder. Murder is defined as "The unlawful slaying of a person." Abortion is lawful, and a fetus is not a person.
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Excuse me, but let's keep a level head here. I'm not trying to anger anyone. I am simply giving my opinion.
1. It actually is not a myth. I sat through an entire presentation about abortion and this is one of the ways. I did not say that it was a common way, I stated that it is a way.
2. I did do my research, thank you. For example, I sat through a presentation, as previously stated.
3. A person's a person no matter how small.
4. Fetus's can feel pain by the time that abortion usually occurs.
5. As for women, neither of us can speak for the feelings of most women. You can't say they don't love their child, and I can't say they will. That was my mistake, I'm sorry. I can speak of the remorse and depressing feelings that they do feel, though.
I like to hear different sides to this. I may be a stubborn person, but hearing both sides is the best way to settle something.
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Of course, my head was level then and it is now. This head is more level than a freshly constructed building.
Do you have a source to your claim? [link] Here is a list of all types of abortion. The type you listed is extremely rare and only happens if it's a medical emergency and the woman is dying.
No. A person is a person if they have a brain that gives personality. Size has nothing to do with being a logical human being. And be careful with that quote, the Seuss family does NOT want it used in relation to abortion.
No they can't. A fetus doesn't feel pain until around 21-22 weeks of development, well AFTER abortion is no longer legal.
And I can speak for the joy and excitement other women feel after an abortion. Every woman is different, and if a woman knows she wants an abortion, we should trust her to know what's best for herself.
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Had you have said relief, I wouldn't have protested, but saying that you are joyous that a person doesn't get to experience anything other than growing inside of a mother's uterus.
You may be right, the world isn't black and white. But if a woman honestly doesn't want a child, adoption is a better option for those of us who cannot support a child. It will definitely be loved more in an orphanage than in a grave.
Let's be honest. This topic is opinionated on both sides.
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But adoption only solves unwanted parenting, not unwanted pregnancy. Pregnancy is still an ordeal where a woman loses a LOT of money (pregnancy and labor combined will cost over (30,000 dollars) and her health will suffer. Not to mention it's legal to fire a woman for being pregnant. If a woman can't risk her health, wallet, or job, adoption won't do much for her.
Of course it's opinionated, but that's what makes debating so much fun. Sharing opinions and the thrill of passing on education.
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True true. That is what makes it fun, but I hate to say that I'm a stubborn person who won't change their opinion no matter what is said.
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Look, my source was a presentation I saw. No, I do not have their references. The type I listed, again I state, I did not say was common. I said it was one ways that it happens.
As for Dr. Seuss, I'm glad that you knew that. Sorry, I'm just a big fan ^.^
The fetus is in the mother's uterus because it needs a special environment to grow until it can handle the world. That child is a person.
Again, neither of us have room to speak for all the women with this problem. Only they know what they honestly feel. The fact that you say "joy and excitement" though, personally disgusts me.
I still honestly believe that abortion is not the option that she should choose. That child deserves a life, and doesn't get that option.
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Then google a source. Simply saying "I saw this thing once" doesn't work in a debate.
Again, no. To be a person you require certain attributes. A functioning brain, individuality, etc. A fetus has neither.
Why does it disgust you? Do you understand how terrifying and depressing it is to face the realization that your life may very well end, either from poverty or health issues or the loss of loved ones, or maybe even an abusive spouse? And then to find a way out of that suffering with the medical help of abortion? It's wonderfully joyous.
I believe that the world isn't black and white and I can't possibility understand the life of every woman on this planet facing abortion. If she thinks a child has no place in her life, I will respect that.
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Are you speaking from experience, or are you just pulling this out of your ass?
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but what if its a 13 year who got raped, and then became pregnant because of it? Should she really be put through the Mental and Physical stress that comes with having and raising a child?
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Well, I never said the woman had to raise the child. I understand that people may also disagree with me on this, but if the family is unable to support a child, I honestly believe that adoption is the better route to take. At least the child is alive, and there are women out there who cannot have children that would lovingly adopt a child. I see where you are coming from though.
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I might just be a very pessimistic person thinking like I do. I am not a mother myself, so I know nothing about having children to care for. But I do know that parents and children have this certain "bond" between them, but it's still hard for me to believe you wouldn't feel at least some resentment. Some people are weaker than others, and some stronger so I believe the stronger people might be more capable of raising such a child.
You've brought up some good points which I admit I've been overlooking. And I admit that I don't know much about the procedure which you go through in abortion, so what you said about the cutting kind of surprised me.
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I agree with you on the stronger/weaker parents. I don't know if resentment is the word I would use, but it's probably close to what victims might feel, true.
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As much as I agree that there's a lot of hate in the comments,
do you think all of this hate is so one-sided?
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In a way it can be. A lot of kids (including myself) would've wished we were aborted. I've been to message boards about being given up by your parents and never truely understanding why. Even if we do get the chance at being reunited it's not an easy process to go through.
It's a constant state of rejection I guess you could say. The 'parental' figures I did have weren't exactly very loving to make things worse. I'm sure some kids are happy or content even if they were adopted. Though some of us aren't and would rather never had to experience this at all.
So ultimatley, I believe it should be up to the woman to decide. Not a clergy of men.
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You may wish you were aborted, but irrespective of your origins you're alive, and you can take what actions you want. You can experience what it's like to be alive, and enjoy it for what it is. Why spend your time wishing you weren't alive.
Fir instance, if many people feel the way you feel, then there are a great many people in the world suffering on a daily basis because of it. If you can use your personal experience to tell a story that makes them feel better about their lives, would that not be a life worth living?
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It's not like I mope around all day. There came a time in my teenage years where it was really hard to deal with. I'm older now, and although I accept it, I still would've rather, if I had the choice, gone with being aborted(Yea I spliced a few). I do not believe in an afterlife of any kind, so to me it wouldn't have been something I'd concern myself with.
In a simple perspective.. "Live a life going through shit and feeling like shit? Or... don't?" I'd go with don't.
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The shit you're talking about has to be perceived as shit to be shit - it isn't inherently shit. Feeling like shit is a response to an interpretation of the state of affairs around a person, nothing to do with anything inherent about the state of affairs itself.
The point that I'm making is that the power to control these attitudes and these feelings lies with the person feeling them; it isn't out of their control. If you feel like shit about your life, it's possible to change your attitude so that you don't feel like shit about it.
So I have to say that I disagree with your hypothetical situation. Instead, I propose:
"Live a life going through shit and feeling like shit, or change your attitude to it and realise that you're lucky to be alive, and that no matter how shit it is, whether or not you feel shit about it is down to attitude... or... don't"... I'll go with changing the way I feel about it.
I'm trying to speak from experience here - I've had a lot of bad reactions to circumstances in my life - dyslexia, bullying, parents' divorce, work troubles, etc. and eventually realised that I could change how I felt about them by changing how I thought about them. #
Now my life isn't much changed, but I think it's kickass.
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Now, I have to disagree with part of this.
It's not all within your power, your attitude. There are a multitude of disorders and illnesses that can change a body's chemistry--And thus, in many circumstances, the person's perception of life and their attitude towards it.
Clinical depression, for example, is one of these illnesses, and probably the most common. One cannot simply change their attitude and get over it. It's the brain's inability to receive and produce enough of the chemicals that creates the emotion of 'happy', and related emotions. Oftentimes, it increases the magnitude of things that are bad in a person's perception, and so it usually ruins their attitude, even if they don't mope or anything. A person that doesn't look or even feel sad can be afflicted with this; it usually is paired with unrelenting feelings of guilt, resent, and cynicism rather than just sadness. And a person cannot usually fight this illness alone-It often takes years of therapy and medication to fight such a thing.
I apologize for butting in with that, but as someone with several of these disorders, I have learned (especially from my therapists) that it isn't always just as simple as changing one's attitude. In some cases, it's more of an excruciating struggle to find something worth it all.
Not that I have laid down and used that excuse to just give up; actually, now I'm fighting harder than ever to get through this.
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Thanks for making an excellent point. Clinical depression and other ailments can certainly have a huge effect on the chemical side of mood - I hope what I said wasn't construed as telling people who are depressed to get over it. I've had mild depression several times, and my sister is bipolar - I know more than some about how these things can affect mood.
The point that I was making was about how a person chooses to live their life. I see conscious human life as the most precious thing in existence, given that without it, nothing can be perceived as precious, or indeed even be perceived to exist. As such, I think that a person should do whatever is in their power to derive some kind of enjoyment from their life. If a person is suffering from depression, perhaps therapy (and, in more severe cases, medication) can help. It's worth a try.
I think overall though, my position is still that while the wish to have been aborted may be induced by depression or something similar, I think the feeling itself still derives at least in part from an attitude. To speak tritely, life is too short to go through it wishing you hadn't ever been born, especially considering how easy it can be to point out all the things a person has to be grateful for. Whether or not that person actually feels grateful for those things (having a place to sleep, enough to eat, people to spend time with, etc.) is another matter.
So I certainly agree that not all of attitude is in a person's control. But equally, I think much more of it is in our control than we realise. I think that very often people place the locus of control for their attitude in something external to them - their living conditions, recent events, their family, etc., without realising that actually the power to control those attitudes lies within the person experiencing those attitudes.
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Yes, I do understand your point. |'D It was just something I wanted to point that part out. Currently, while I do not wish to not be born due to being afflicted with cerebral palsy due to my mother not being well suited for carrying a child (they tried having her abort me for this reason), I am not happy with my life. I've struggled with my disability for what seems too long.
However, now that I'm here, I'm more or less proud of the achievements I've made and the hardships I've overcome, and wouldn't dare wish to have never been able to accomplish so much. But where I am not happy, I've just made it my mission to make it better, to find a place I could be comfortable.
Now, this isn't saying I'm pro-life because I'm one that was nearly aborted. It's also because of what I've gone through that I would say to keep abortion legal, and there are probably cases far worse than mine that it would probably be in both the mother and child's best interests to just spare the child an entire life of only wishing they could do as others could and wondering why they just can't be 'normal', without special care, and it would be best to save a mother's life from dying from a measly lump of cells that has become purely parasitic to the person, slowly killing them. (this being more for comment stalkers who try using my case than anything.)
So yes, I do very well understand what you mean. It does partially have to deal with attitude. And it was a hard lesson for me to learn, but I'm glad I have.
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You talk like your against abortion but your username is ProAbortion101?
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I'm not sure where you got that impression from. Maybe you're confused. I'm suggesting this guy shouldn't wish he had been aborted because it's one hell of a way to go through life. I'm all about letting a pregnant person choose whether she wants to have an abortion.
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Ok, well it just sounded like you were saying that the person shouldn't have wished they were aborted because abortion is bad or something.
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You followed up your first statement with talking down to the people who are against abortion, though I haven't exactly seen very nice things said about people for it either. I can't exactly say the ratio is very fair, either.
I'm just saying that neither side is innocent here.
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What do you mean neither side is innocent. Are the pro-choicers trying to make out like they're innocent in all this? I don't think they care whether they are or not. I think mainly they care about protecting the rights of an individual to decide what happens to their body. If I could prove using the ability to see into the future (think Minority Report) that a man would commit a rape unless stopped, would that give me the right to cut off their penis? Or any other part of them that is inextricably part of their whole?
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People have the right to have opinions. Discussion and argument is a good thing, what would we be without different opinions? A coin has two sides, neither is wholly right or wrong, but you're missing my point in the original comment. I am directing my comment to people who call abortion a murder. My talking down the protesters is my opinion on the matter, and I was only stating another fact for them to consider.
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Most of these comments are not arguments or discussions, though - they are mostly blatant insults and belittling others for their opinions.
As for your main point, the pro-abortion comments to be heavily overshadowed those who are against it (and I'm pretty sure most of them are just trying to troll. And as you said, your OPINION on the matter - it's not a fact... which kind of confused me with the following claim where you are claiming that you then claimed a fact.
Merely calling other opinions opinions doesn't really provide to an argument either, it's a given yet a bit distracting.
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I'm sorry, I get distracted and confused very easily when writing in foreign language. I guess I wasn't thinking straight when I wrote the last part about "stating a fact". I meant it more as "try to think of it in this viewpoint" that they could think over.
Still, how does an argument form if not from stating opinions and then breaking them down? Telling the other party that "this is my opinion on the matter" is just a way to keep things from heating up and turning into a fight(at least for me).
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Very clear and powerful message.
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Amazing work, I love your political creativity
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why does that remind of one of the jokes that was used by the French people about King Louis XVI's sex life
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The key finally found its way into the keyhole.
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in this case it has, but with Louis it wouldn't have mattered with the French Revolution
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The joke was in one of our history French Revolution videos in class everyone burst out laughing with the historian lady abruptly told it. XP
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Simple yet very effective. It's so true too unfortunately. Good work
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What and insulting and insenstitive way to represent the death of tens of millions of children who never had a chance to live like you do. I'm sure people like you are blissfully unaware of the true reasoning as to why Abortion is so radically promoted, never once considering ulterior motives of a secret and satanic elite who knows that abortions true purposes are as to offer Satan blood sacrifices AND that the field's only concern is money under the illusion that it's your choice.
God's not going to put up with this much longer, and I wouldn't want to be anyone on the wrong side of the fence.
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