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Vojtapop In reply to tba113 [2016-11-23 15:59:48 +0000 UTC]

You forgot that Nids are using acid and biological weaponry, you are saying "Stormtrooper armor is almost completely proof against solid projectiles" but what about acid? or the Devourerer biomorph, every weapon that tyranids are using are either  acid, filled with living worms that can chew through armor and flesh with ease, or posion clouds that make you choke on your own blood. 
+ Their adaptation would take them 1 or 2 raids to kick in, and when that happends there is no stopping them, no matter how much reinforcements they'll get. 
When Tyranids would get into melee there is even less chance of stopping them, because from (well atleast my information) clones are not good at melee vs space monsters. 
It dosen't really matter if empire is warp sensitive, Zoanthropes can snipe a tank from behind the ranks, boost everyone to be more faster/stronger. 

If the Tyranids would be led by a Swarmlord that would be the end for empire. 
I know you're saying Siths have the empire's back, but can Sith help you against the never ending swarm of ocean of teeth?
 

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tba113 In reply to Vojtapop [2016-11-23 23:28:57 +0000 UTC]

Yes, the 'nids are powerful. They use acids, sprays of bugs, poisons, teeth, claws, and all sorts of other creepy-crawly nastiness, and leave dead husks of harvested worlds in their wake. That's why the Milky Way galaxy of the 40K universe is a barren, empty wasteland now that the unstoppable tyranids have consumed every remotely habitable world, right?

Oh, wait: that didn't actually happen. A disorganized, easily frightened race of relatively slow-moving bipeds with no claws, fangs, poisons, venoms, or natural armor, minimal healing and night-vision abilities, only moderate physical strength for their (small) size, and a decades-long reproduction cycle, whose last technological breakthrough was a few thousand years ago, and who are armed with weapons and armor so feeble they're joked about as being equipped with "flashlights" and "t-shirts" instead of real gear, has been fighting the tyranids to a standstill for centuries.

That would be the Imperial Guard. Some of their gear is maybe 10-20 years ahead of modern western military equipment, and some of it is decades out of date by our standards today: flak armor is roughly equivalent to modern-day Interceptor body armor, and lasguns are at most 10%-20% more powerful than modern combat rifles. Hell, the bayonet charge is still a practiced combat maneuver for the Imperial Guard, and that's so outdated it's been considered suicidal for fifty years in our world.

If the Guard can hold the line against the tyranids - and they manage it more often than not, despite using (compared to the Galactic Empire) similar numbers and equipment that is worse in every sense - then that means the tyranids aren't invincible. It also means you don't need to have genetically engineered super-soldiers with centuries of combat experience to stop them.

A bit more research on [Galactic Empire] Stormtrooper armor indicates that it would be a definite cut above the [40K] Imperial Guard's special-issue Carapace Armour. Carapace Armour is the kind of Imperium high-end gear reserved for Imperial Guard special forces units and senior commanders because it is much more effective than standard-issue flak armour. The rigid plates spread the damage from blaster bolts (equivalent to somewhere between 40K hellguns and mid-grade plasma weapons) across the entire area, reducing the damage from a penetrating kill shot to a mere stunning impact. Anything less than a direct impact from a high-power blaster bolt means troopers that get hit are likely to keep fighting. The plates are acid-resistant as well, and the forearm guards are designed to protect against vibroblades. I wouldn't want to get in a knife fight with a genestealer, but their claws aren't that much deadlier than a vibro-weapon, so the Stormtroopers aren't completely hosed if the tyranids manage to close to melee. The suits are atmospherically sealed, so poison gas won't affect them overmuch. Corrosive atmospheres might give them bigger problems, but again, that wouldn't be anything the Imperial Guard hasn't already successfully dealt with.

As for the Sith, I didn't actually mention them. I talked about Imperial Inquisitors, which aren't the same as Sith - but if you want to go there, then sure, let's add them in. A full Sith seems most comparable to a Space Marine Chief Librarian, armed with a plasma pistol and a C'Tan Phase Sword, who also happens to be the Lord Commander of the Segmentum. There is absolutely no question that the Sith's word is instant law, unlike the Space Marines: the Marines can advise, and militarily they kind of expect the local forces to coordinate with the Marines, but they don't really have authority to command anyone outside the Chapter. That's not an issue for the Sith: in the Galactic Empire, they're already supposed to be in charge.

And droids! I almost completely forgot about droids. The Imperium has... Servitors? And Servo-skulls, which are kind of handy. The Galactic Empire has probe, maintenance, labor, and medical droids, before getting into the specialized staff and organizational support droids that help make planning and running a war smoother and easier. Comparing the Imperium's twisted cyborgs to the Empire's droids is like comparing a quadcopter flown by a man in a wheelchair to a US Air Force MQ-9 Reaper armed with anti-tank missiles. It is pathetically easy for the Empire to search a planet for monsters like tyranids by deploying a few hundred (thousand?) disposable probe droids, while the Imperium is limited to 1970's-era manned recon flights to scout for the enemy. Even if the 'nids wreck half the probe droids, well, that's still not really a problem for the Empire. First, the ones doing the wrecking won't survive due to the probe droids' self-destruct. Second, it tells the Empire that, hey, there's monsters in this area. And third, it doesn't even reduce the Empire's information-gathering capability much, because they're droids designed to be disposable: they can always make more.

So, the tyranids are facing a foe that (compared to the Imperial Guard) has better weapons, better armor, better hostile-environment gear, better communications, better information, better counterintelligence, a unified leadership structure, and reinforcements inbound that the tyranids can't prevent. I just don't see how this means a one-sided victory for the tyranids.

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Ironfist85hu In reply to tba113 [2018-02-27 05:57:36 +0000 UTC]

1.- Why would the SW blaster be stronger than the lasgun? Both are laser guns, nothing more. TBH, the fact that blaster shoots projectile lasers (wtf anyway?) makes it weaker compared to a "real" laser.
2.- We all know the users of the blasters. Anything lesser than a gigantic landship of a bunch of desert kobolds is unavailable as target for them.
2./b- So, let's mathhammer a bit. Stormtroopers have a 6+ ballistic skill (don't argue that one, i was even good hearted for giving them 1/6 chance of hit anything! We all saw in the movies that they never hit anything). Okay, let's say, the blaster has A3. That means, in a group of 20, when they have 60 shots, 10 shoot will hit. S3 weapons, so even against a carnifex they will wound on another 6+. 1.666... wound so far. 3+ save of the hard carapace. 1 wound. Yay, carnifex have only 7 wounds left! After 60 shots. Oh my, there are a few hundreds of other carnifexes, and tyrannofexes, and tervigons, and maleceptors, and haruspexes, and toxicrenes, and a few ten thousands of warriors, and zoanthropes, and hiveguards, and tyrant guards, and exocrines, and sporocysts, and tyrannocites full of other monsters, and a few hundredthousand of genestealers, and a few of ten millions of gaunts, and i won't even start counting of the ocean of ripper swarms... sheeeeeit... oh well, at least every shoot hits something, eh?
3.- Hyperspace is more reliable? Maybe (yea, sure, traveling a space what is full of rocks/planets/suns/stones/ice/even dust what crashes your ship, if you go in them with the speed of light DOES sound reliable. wait. no). But faster, than warp? Pfff. Come on. Hans Olo was proud that the Mineral Flacon is 1.5 light speed. That means you could reach the tyranid hivefleets within 45000 years from Holy Terra. *clap-clap-clap* In fact, the Imperial Bureaucracy of sending help after 30 years of planet NOMmed seems a blitzkrieg.
4.- I think the force-people in SW could be the local psykers. So welcome back, shadow in the warp. But if not? Oh well, i think 2 (two) sith could do greeeeeeat harm to the tyranids. Erm... what?
5.- Imperial Guard (or as they are named today, the astalavistarum) seems MUCH stronger that the SW empire army. They have endless number of legions, they have incredibly powerful tanks, and stuff, they have imperial navy support, what NOT wasted their resources and available powers for building a planet what can shoot, but can be destroyed with 1 hit, AND their ship are bigger, stronger, and overall more powerful than the SW empire ships (except the executor, but that is only less than threetimes bigger of a common Space Marine Battle barge). And sure, they have the Space Marines as support, anytime the things turn worse. SW Empire have the Deathstar (even after a bunch of terrorists destroy it with ease, these smartheads will build it up again, and again, and again), what can shoot once in every while. Sure, they could kill a Hiveship with 1 hit. Congratz, you just destroyed a 1/100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 part of THIS hivefleet.
6.- Why would ANYONE notice the genestealers? They are supreme of creating genestealer cults. Half of the Farfar Galaxy would be infested before even a single hiveship would turn up.
7.- Oooh, droids. So? As i know, they don't use battledroids in fight. Probes? So? Then what? One words against them: spores.


So, the tyranids facing an enemy what is slower, weaker, and all around worse than the Imperium in 40k. And in a galaxy what is much-much-much smaller. Bon appetit!


p.s.: I know this is an old topic, but sounded interesting, so why not?

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Vojtapop In reply to tba113 [2016-11-24 18:48:39 +0000 UTC]

Damn you got aaaaalot of points there. 
Seems like your informations of both are pretty good. 
Still (just a bunch of things, this got me intrested) Nids are not all bull rush, they can plan, well, not nids, the hivemind can, the nids invasion is like this 
1 Send in lictors to kill all high ranked people
2 after that, send endless swarms of expendable units to waste ammunition and destroy whatever thay can 
3 send in worse things
4 Bio titans 
I dunno how empire would deal with lictors, siths and force sensitive people would detect them(?) not even imperial psykers can detect them so i dunno how it would go with siths or inquisitors 
and with the flash-light joke, well, it's more like everything (except fire warriors, cultists etc) is too op for the lasgun, it's not a bad gun, it's just not enough for others, i mean when you get a universe where 2 meter tall assholes in super armor are the 2nd most common thing in the universe it's hard to kill something with this. 
Stormtroopers can kill tons of different things with their blasters because, well i don't wanna say the other things in SW are not as op, but it definetly easier to kill stuff with it. 
and for the genestealers, i mean they are strong enough to tear a terminator armor like sticks, so, i dunno. 

and sorry that i talked about siths instead of Inquisitors, i guess my mind slipped. ^^ 

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