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#joker #batgirl #dccomics #killingjoke #new52 #changethecover
Published: 2015-03-18 09:45:32 +0000 UTC; Views: 15978; Favourites: 496; Downloads: 172
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Just drew more friendly version of Batgirl cover by since DC comics decided to #changethecover lolRelated content
Comments: 83
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And he's wearing that outfit too? lol. Batgirl, you have a lot of control just for the sake of a picture! xD Nicely done though!
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A little abuse and face scares later, and they're friends. Torture will resume later.
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LOL nice work! I love your artwork man, consider me a fan!
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Yep, something tells me we’re going to get a bit of a ‘Before and After’ scenario with these two posing and having fun… Too bad Batgirl’s about to find out what Joker’s style of fun really is.
I believe I commented on a piece you’ve done, let’s see… NEARLY TWO YEARS AGO?! The hell?
It’s seriously been that long… Anyway, back on track, it’s fair to say that the quality of your drawing is just as good, if not better, than it was back then. You’ve drawn them in a rare state of happiness, which kinda makes me feel happy in turn… Something along the lines of “Why can’t we be friends?” and all that good stuff.
Batgirl’s new costume is pretty much perfect for the most part, with proper work done on the various aspects including the cowl, the symbol, the belt and the cape most prominently (Indeed, you gave it that extra sheen which looks really great).
The Joker, with his fedora, stretched gloves, Hawaiian-style shirt and goofy grin, really allows us to see another side to the most awful nemesis Batman and co. have ever come across.
Perhaps one suggestion that I’d take a look at again, in future, is that the sleeves of Joker’s t-shirt seem to have different transparencies to them. By that I mean, it feels like we can see through the shirt to Joker’s right arm as he dangles the camera and poses for us. However, it could be possible that a dark light is reflecting onto it, though there’s no indication of where said light is.
It’s a minor niggle on an otherwise flawless couples drawing, showcasing the best of oddfellows; crime fighter and villain just yukking it up like best buddies. Excellent stuff, and hope to see more like that soon…
Hopefully not another two years from now, on my end. 
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Okay, can someone please explain what exactly is the big controversy about this cover? First off, why complain about a variant? THIS ISN'T EVEN THE REAL OFFICIAL COVER! If you hate it, then just don't buy that particular copy of that issue. And how exactly is it offensive to anyone? It's a character being harassed by a dangerous psychopath, is she not supposed to be crying or concerned? Is it wrong for Batgirl to be dark or something? Are we complaining about Joker, the villain, doing VILLAINOUS THINGS?
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It's cute yet frightening at the same time
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Now this is what I think the variant should have been. My problem with the the original variant was not that it promoted raped (Which ofcourse was not the intent) my problem was the context, if your making a variant for an issue of the current Batgirl run, then make it a silly variant, one that can pay homage to the Killing Joke while also adding irony to it so it's not taken too seriously.
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This.........is really fucked up haha. But I like it.
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pbs.twimg.com/media/CAHSsjGUkA…
I like this one too XD
But furreal tho, don't # change the cover (I'm too old to know how to ...tweet? is it?) poundsigntooold
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In general, I dislike comics, especially those of the super hero persuasion (unless it's Wonder Woman or Batgirl or Batwoman), "The Killing Joke" being one I particularly hate (for the double standard in superhero stories that Barbara remained crippled, whereas when Batman's back was broken he was fine and was back to fighting). I disliked that cover too. It is insulting to Batgirl.
However, this is brilliant. Who knew the Joker could look so...innocent...and adorable....
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The Joker did worse to Jason Todd, and for a long time he was dead. Barbara wasn't cripple forever.
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But he was fridged for a man, not a woman, so it does not count. And he come back. None of the fridged females, even the superheroines, came back. Well, there's Stephanie.
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So if something bad happens to a man it "does not count"? This is why people complain about feminism, because some feminists believe that men's issues don't matter.
Almost all major characters who die in comics, whether they are male or female, eventually are brought back to life. In many cases, there are multiverses where deceased characters still exist. The majority of villains in comics are male, and are occasionally killed off as well. In the recent Marvel movies: Agent Coulson, Iron Man, Nick Fury, and Loki died temporarily for the plot. In X-Men: Days of Future Past, the remaining mutants in the future, most of whom are male, are killed by the Sentinels.
Gwen Stacy, one of the most infamous fridge characters, eventually came back and is now a superhero. Death is rarely permanent in comics. According to TV Tropes, this trope is called "Death Is Cheap". Jimmy Olsen is perhaps the biggest male fridge and DIC character ever.
While searching for examples of men in fridges, I found this forum thread:
boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/s…
If you want a more comprehensive list of deaths in comics, check out these articles:
www.blastr.com/2014-9-4/12-mos…
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_…
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I am a 'tumblr' or Anita feminist. No, it 'does not count', as it is was used against another male. There are next to no fridge-stuffing of male characters (in general) or dead fathers, brothers, husbands, sons, friends, co workers, etc. Dead men are usually are renouned for their combat skills or heroics, was your typical, boring, macho, violent, cliché male, died in a heroic sacrifice, or doing something heroic. That is the double standard between the dead husbands, fathers, brothers, boyfriends, friends, co-workers, and the dead wives, mothers, sisters, girlfriends, friends, co-workers. The mother is defined completely by the males (or females) in the story, the fathers are defined by their actions before and during their deaths.
The same goes for damsels in distress, Guys Smash and Girls Shoot, Never a Self made Woman, Brooding Boy and Gentle Girl, and the female made/healer/cleric/mage, who is a damsel or paired with a macho male warrior. So long there are so few male (and feminine) damsels who are saved by masculine female characters kicking arse to save them, and not being insulted for it, the damsel-in-distress will always be sexist. And again, if the dude in distress is saved by a man or himself, it does not count. And even then, the damsel being saved by a male, along with the above four tropes, are sexist so matter what, the middle one for both (as male characters are stereotyped and just as narrow as females).
And along with the stereotypes against them, there is the numerous examples of female-on-male rape, which I have noticed is particularly common in comics, being excused or ignored, as in real life.
Finally, most female villains are either Femme Falate (God forbid a woman be manipulative without being a slut or objectifying herself), or the servant to a man (one of the reason I can't stand Harley Quinn, but Dr. Harleen Quinzel before she became a pathetic, love-struck wimp? Awesome). That is something I naturally avert in my original fiction.
Here is why the damsel-saved-by-a-man (or in general) will always be sexist Firstly, wanting to save a friend or loved one? There is nothing wrong that in principle. However, a male wanting to save or 'protect' a female, for any reason, or a woman wanting that protection or saving by a man, or letting a man save or 'protect' her, is sexist no matter what. It does not matter if it is out of 'love', there is always the subconscious sexism, there is always the keeping of traditional gender roles - the active, masculine man, with the feminine, passive woman. The man is saying the woman is inferior to him, that she cannot look after herself, and denying another woman her chance to be a hero. The woman is saying she not a modern woman, but some helpless little weakling from the middle ages, and again, denying the possibility of a woman coming to save her. And male damsels usually get out on their own, or are saved by a man, and if by a woman, are sexistly seems as weak.
The only acceptable, non-sexist, non-cliché, non-boring use of the damsel-in-distress trope is when a woman is saving her, or she saves herself.
So? That was an alternate universe. It does not change their fridge-stuffing (which is just as rife in other made, like all sexist tropes). And it does not change the fact that most superheroines are sexualized, sluts, trained by a man, are only in their position because of a man, or obtained their powers from men. That is one of the several reasons why characters such as most the Manga!FMA females, especially Riza, Ran Fan, and Mei Chang are not strong, unique, interesting female characters, along with "Attack On Titan" characters Mikasa Ackerman, Annie Leonhart, "RWBY" character Ruby Rose. Either that, or they are a subset of male heroes (e.g. Super Girl, Batgirl, much as I like her, She-Hulk, Wasp Girl, Hawk Girl, Ms. Marvel, Spiderwoman, Batwoman, female Thor who also has a fucking boob plate and counts as Never A Self Made Woman, etc). Also, notice how the distaff often ends in 'girl' not woman. The only ones that almost always end in 'woman' are those in Earth-11 (oh, if only that world had always been the main, good, world in comics).
Again, they do not count the same as the woman (and again, there are far less man who are fridged), as they are killed for men, not women. And even then, usually the male who's friend was killed does not cry, and goes after revenge or broods, whereas the female character is more likely to be sobbing and wailing like a three year old (yes, it is perfectly natural to mourn death, but there are a difference between crying and being hysterical) and does not do anything to avenge him. And again, the man would be unlike to be a non-fighting, sweet boyfriends or best friends that is defined purely by her).
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In the future, could you space out your paragraphs? It makes it hard to read when your sentences look like they're forming a typographical human centipede.
I am a 'tumblr' or Anita feminist.
That raises flags of various red shades. A more objective-minded individual might be hesitant to debate someone who aligns with a documented s̶c̶a̶m̶ ̶a̶r̶t̶i̶s̶t̶ feminist. Someone who asked for huge donations for an unfinished project. Videos which play like propaganda pieces, showing only the most extreme examples of sexism. If Riefenstahl were alive today, she'd have but to admire Sarkeesian's cunning.
No, it 'does not count', as it is was used against another male.
Not sure I quiet understand that statement. Male victims don't matter when it only hurts another male? If a male were victimized for a female, would it matter then? Because it's happened more than you might believe.
There are next to no fridge-stuffing of male characters (in general) or dead fathers, brothers, husbands, sons, friends, co workers, etc.
"Next to no", you say? I bothered to take the time to fact check, though I doubt a self-opposed Tumblrite will take my findings into much consideration. Below is a short list of popular superheroes who had males fridged/used as plot devices:
Batman's father, Both of Superman's fathers, Superman's friend Jimmy Olsen, Supergirl's father, Hawkgirl's father, Dick Grayson/Robin's father and brother, Tim Drake/Robin's father, Barbara Gordon/Batgirl's father, Catwoman's father, Black Canary's husband and father, Huntress's father and brother, Doctor Fate's father, Hal Jordan/Green Lantern's father, Guy Gardner/Green Lantern's father and brother, Green Arrow's father, Aquaman's son, Ghost Rider's dad, Captain America's father, Wolverine's father, Spider-Man's father and uncle, Janet Van Dyne/Wasp's father.
Dead men are usually are renouned for their combat skills or heroics, was your typical, boring, macho, violent, cliché male, died in a heroic sacrifice, or doing something heroic.
The majority of those deaths I listed are plot devices, and many weren't heroic. There are also heroes whose male relatives are background characters or even villains. To name a few: Cassandra Cain/Batgirl, Stephanie Brown/Batgirl, Barbara Gordon/Batgirl Jason Todd/Robin, Harley Quinn, Raven, Martian Manhunter, Bruce Banner/Hulk, and Black Widow. I could give you more examples, but like a certain feminist critic, I'd have to ask for a few hundred grand in donations for "research".
The mother is defined completely by the males (or females) in the story, the fathers are defined by their actions before and during their deaths.
Have you read all comics, and can you back up these claims with evidence? I spent time researching superhero origins, and discovered that many fathers were written with little to no character. Before modern intepretations, Jor-El (Superman's dad) was remembered mostly as being a hologram who spouted words of wisdom. The average person knows Uncle Ben as the old guy who said "with great power comes great responsibility". Thomas Wayne is known for taking his wealthy family into dark alleys...
Some dads of heroes were actually abusive to their children, or unprotective of their families. A number of them had criminal backgrounds, some only existing to knock up the females who gave birth to the heroes. The mothers of the heroes were often portrayed in a kinder light. I've rarely read an origin story where a hero's mother was an abusive alcoholic. Big Barda and Wonder Woman have highly-regarded mothers and absent fathers. Fans also should know that characters like Martha Kent and Aunt May have a rich history, and have added their own perspective to the comics.
The same goes for damsels in distress, Guys Smash and Girls Shoot, Never a Self made Woman, Brooding Boy and Gentle Girl, and the female made/healer/cleric/mage, who is a damsel or paired with a macho male warrior.
Because characters like Wonder Woman, She-Hulk, and Gotham Sirens are real gentle, girly girls. Damsels aren't quite as commonplace, in this day and age, as they used to be. Superheroes have always saved anyone, regardless of gender. Superheroes even save each other. Batman's been helped by Superman and Wonder Woman, much to his chagrin. There are a few famous damsels in video games and Disney films, but I certainly can't think of many comic heroines who are like that.
So long there are so few male (and feminine) damsels who are saved by masculine female characters kicking arse to save them, and not being insulted for it, the damsel-in-distress will always be sexist.
Wonder Woman? She-Hulk?
And even then, the damsel being saved by a male, along with the above four tropes, are sexist so matter what,
It seems that what you're saying is, that when a man rescues a woman, that's sexist. How do you propose we combat this sexism? By making all heroes women, and putting men in the kitchen/fridge?
And along with the stereotypes against them, there is the numerous examples of female-on-male rape, which I have noticed is particularly common in comics, being excused or ignored, as in real life.
Did you mean male-on-female? In either case, it's a matter of art imitating life. It depends on the context of how it's written in comics, that determines whether or not it's been inappropriately depicted. Stastically, men and women are almost equal victims of sexual abuse. If anything, men have gotten that shaft by being excluded from representation on this issue.
Finally, most female villains are either Femme Falate (God forbid a woman be manipulative without being a slut or objectifying herself),
Slut is a very non-PC word when regarding women's life choices. Feminists don't like it, and now I'm questioning whether you're really a feminist or trolling me into a long-winded response, that will ultimately not change anyone's mind and just waste everyone's time.
There generally aren't many female villains. Men are primarily the bad guys, which is what feminism would have you believe anyway (see their views on Patriarchy). I have met feminists who like being "sluts" (as you put it), who have been able to identify with villains like Catwoman and Poison Ivy.
or the servant to a man (one of the reason I can't stand Harley Quinn, but Dr. Harleen Quinzel before she became a pathetic, love-struck wimp? Awesome).
Harley Quinn has been the victim of an abusive relationship, and she represents women who've had difficulty leaving their abusers. She's hardly what I'd call wimpy. She's left the Joker a number of times, and has proven she can throw down with superheroes.
The next paragraph just says that it's sexist to want to protect someone of another gender. Imagine men only protecting men, and women only protecting women. The scenario you've created is a world of segregation, wherein opposite genders no longer look out for each other's well being.
And it does not change the fact that most superheroines are sexualized, sluts, trained by a man, are only in their position because of a man, or obtained their powers from men.
What constitutes sexualization? Showing legs or cleavage? Women do that all the time, so it's true to life. You know, male superheroes often go about in skintight outfits that leave little to the imagination. Muscles, bulges... Superman his underwear on the outside. Maybe superheroes should all wear burqas. That would stop people from feeling their body types aren't represented.
Men kind of pioneered martial arts. It's almost unavoidable for a woman to learn something which was originally taught by and for men. Learning self-defense without male influence, would be like learning to breath without borrowing oxygen from the air. If you want an example of a woman who directly taught a man, well, Lady Shiva taught Batman some lessons once. If you want more examples, I'll need you to donate money to my kickstarter and Patreon.
Either that, or they are a subset of male heroes (e.g. Super Girl, Batgirl, much as I like her, She-Hulk, Wasp Girl, Hawk Girl, Ms. Marvel, Spiderwoman, Batwoman, female Thor who also has a fucking boob plate and counts as Never A Self Made Woman, etc)
Wouldn't that make Batman a subset or Bats, or Superman a subset of Supers? There are no characters named Wasp Girl or Female Thor. They're simply called Wasp and Thor. New Thor has become popular among feminists, partly because she's sold better than her male counterpart. The armor in Thor comics were never that practical. "Male Thor" used to have silver nipple plates.
Also, notice how the distaff often ends in 'girl' not woman. The only ones that almost always end in 'woman' are those in Earth-11 (oh, if only that world had always been the main, good, world in comics).
"Girl" denotes age. Batgirl is usually between her teens or early 20s, as is Supergirl. Power Girl appears older, but keeps the name because she's Supergirl from an alternate universe. There are also male characters named such as Superboy, Wonder Boy, and Beast Boy. As well as Aqualad and Kid Flash.
Again, they do not count the same as the woman (and again, there are far less man who are fridged), as they are killed for men, not women.
I listed more than a few who were killed for women. It shouldn't matter what gender anyone is. A fridge is a fridge. Anything put in a fridge, has therefore been fridged.
And even then, usually the male who's friend was killed does not cry,
You'd be surprised at how few images there are of female superheroes crying. Using Google image search didn't turn up much. I did find images of male superheroes crying:
i.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/art…
i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/o…
static.comicvine.com/uploads/o…
i.imgur.com/tkaMg1j.png
static.comicvine.com/uploads/o…
24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m9h…
www.progressiveruin.com/images…
static.comicvine.com/uploads/o…
marielleaarts.nl/weblog/wp-con…
new4.fjcdn.com/comments/So+in+…
static.comicvine.com/uploads/o…
cdn.meme.am/images/5574677.jpg
media.tumblr.com/tumblr_luoia0…
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Oh, I forgot to say, here is the example of why the new Thor is not a strong female character (though I do not agree on the whole 'sexist males' and 'women don't read comics' bullshit). scarletscribe.net/2014/07/22/m… and female characters trained/inspired by men in general. And I was thinking of someone else when I wrote Wasp Girl, so sorry.
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WARNING: Long, long comment incoming. I’m sorry for how long it is.
Ok, onto the rest of the comment. Of course it would matter in real life, but in the fictional world, it does not count because it does not fall in traditional, sexist, gender roles and the use of women as plot devices, it does not fall in the thousands of examples of female victims (in fiction), it does not fall in lazy, sexist writing.
Again, most of them are used against males, and even for the females, I'm guessing their mothers are gone or have next to no development? Even so, again, it still does not count.
Yes, but granted, those fathers are highly likely to have a job (not just be 'the father'), and as a villain, they are still active, developed characters outside of their wives and children, whereas the wife is either already did or just 'the wife', and 'the mother'.
Exactly. The father is a masculine, developed force (albeit in a bad way), whereas the women is your typical, boring, gentle, feminine, emotional support. I'm not saying it is a good thing, but hardly any stories have an abusive, abandoning, or criminal mother, and a gentle, long-suffering, victimized father (which would good to show that women are just as bad at that, another rarity of fiction). Moreover, Wonder Woman has been turned into being the student of a man, now, so that no longer counts (as suspiring and good as it was, considering the time). In addition, regard of any 'development' they had, May and Martha are still just the 'super feminine, housewife, who is nothing more than emotional support", while Ben used to be in the military/police (can't remember which).
In addition, fathers should not need to be 'protective' of their families, as this is the modern day.
See? The fathers have (or had) more development than the mothers, small as it is, an influenced their children's lives in a way beyond 'they were a loving, caring person who cooked really good'. Not to mention, Jor El was a scientist, and it was he who knew what was going to happen to Krypton, and he being the person to decide to send Kal El to earth (well, with Lara's help). Moreover, before the more modern comics, Lara was just 'the wife and mother'. And even with the modern incantations, it does not change the past, it does not change or diminish what was already written (as good as it is and enjoyable as it is). Aunt May is the only instance, along with Woman Woman and Big Barda who averted this, and even then, in Aunt May's case, I already mentioned the stereotypical character that she, and in the modern comment, she and Ben are both dead.
Those three are still sexualized and conventionally beautiful. In addition, as I said, she-Hulk is a subset of a male. Oh yes they are. Yes. They. Are. Same with the dead mother tropes. As an avid gamer, I have noticed this. And they still exist in other forms of media. And the games that do feature are still highly praised, despite the boring, cliché, unoriginal story, just because they have a dressier setting -
"The Legend of Zelda" (no, Zelda is a damsel no matter what and no matter how 'useful' she is, it still falls into Guys smash, Girls Shoot, same with Peach).
"Ico" and "Shadow of the Colossus" (the latter is an example of the dead and damsel'd female combined into one).
"Max Payne" ("your wife is brutally murdered and you have to go recuse your daughter").
"Asura's Wrath" ("your wife is brutally murdered and you have to go recuse your daughter").
"Bioshock: Infinite" (typical male protagonist, dead wife, damsel'd daughter who needs saving several times, and does not fight and only serves a errant girl for Booker),
"Nier" (damsel'd daughter, and lover who needs saving or will die)
"Brothers: A Tale of Two Sons" (the mother is used as a plot device at the start, the distressed due is being saved by males, there is a damsel, and even after she becomes useful, she turns out be evil).
"The Evil Within" (Sebastian is your typical, boring, masculine, violent male protagonist, and his daughter is dead, and his wife is dead/missing/damsel'd). Julie Kidman is reduced to a damsel twice, and Joseph does not count, as again, he was being saved by a man.
"Hitman: Absolution" (No, I don't think the trailer is sexist, expect for the typical ‘sexual/sexualized’ female assassins, but it does have a damsel and a typical, violent male hero).
"The Last of Us" is the worst offender for me, due to how much praise it has gotten, and the hating on those who dislike it . First off, Sarah and Tess are stuffed in the fridge, and Joel is your typical, boring, violent, masculine male. Ellie is reduced to a damsel and an object in the terrible, sexist ending (and at another point, near the start, when that guy strangles her). And it's not like the ending, first time Joel was a sexist arsehole - he did the whole "you wait here because you are a young woman and I am the big strong man who needs to protect you". When will we get a male protagonist who turns to his young female companion and says "Let's get them!" or to his daughter and says "Let's get them family style". Or, even better, the young female is the main fighter or is charge. Or, even better than that, a masculine, violent, anti-hero woman with a dead husband who has to save her son, or has a dead son and has to protect a young, vulnerable boy. I could even show you what I think would have made a much better ending, if you are curious.
Again, She-Hulk is a the subset of a man, and they are the rarity, though that does not make them bad, of course.
No, but males can be heroes (alongside females, of course), but there is a difference between being a hero and being a degrading, chauvinistic, chivalrous pig. A man should know that this being the modern world, women don’t need saving or ‘protecting’ by a male, and the woman who is damsel’d should know that as well. He (or any of the other males) should know that one of the girls in their team (if it is a team) or a female badass in general is just as capable of saving her, or that the damsel’d woman can take care of herself.
That is the difference being sexist storytelling and a woman needing help. By needing help, I’ll give some examples – in the original story I am writing, main male character is a medic. His girlfriend (another main protagonist) is always getting into fights, even when there is no one who needs protection or saving, so he is often having to heal her. And she will not allow anyone except him tend to her. No matter the pain, or the blood, it must be him. I know that seems silly, but it seems natural to me, because it he who brings out her caring, nice side. Not to mention, while she is a bit kill-happy and tends to go wild in battle, but she will stop if she sees that what she is about to do is making him upset or disappointed. Especially if he starts crying. He never does in a manipulative way, though. He also warns her of sneak attacks she did not notice (she is blind), as he is usually waiting by somewhere in his shield while she fights. Finally, he has to look after my main main character (another female), when she has a horrific head injury and is semi-conscious after jumping in front of him to take a blow from a mace. They are captured by the people attacking them, to be used as slave fighters in entertainment games (a reference to gladiators), and after he please with the slavers to let him heal her, she falls unconscious, and he watches over her while they are in their cell. She later does her best to protect him in the arena battles they are forced to do (she’s not muh of a fighter). These examples do not fall into traditional gender roles or sexist storytelling, and the females are still strong and have their own agency.
Sorry for rambling, but I hope you understand what I am trying to say. Oh, I also have a male character who seems be your typical macho male – he wields a giant, melee weapon, is fight and kill-happy, authoritative, etc. However, his wife is every bit the same. Also, she loves alcohol, he hates it, and she can’t cook or sew to save her life, something he is very good. There is even a scene where he gives her a scarf he made her (and gets laughed at for doing something so feminine, as, sadly, in the real world, feminine men are shamed by men and women alike, and in fiction as well), and she defends him. Also to subvert the whole ‘weak little bitch wants a strong, macho man to look after her’ bullshit, he fell for her first, because of how physically tough she is. And when the woman is captured, instead of going on some sexist, chauvinistic, chivalrous, patronizing quest to ‘save’/’rescue’ her, he knows that, as his equal, she can look after herself. And she indeed escapes on her own. And if she did not, he would have sent out Anise, the mercenary woman.
I just love playing around with tropes and clichés.
No, I mean female-on-male. Male-on-female is rape presented positively (well, in the modern day, at least). But male rape victims continue to be insulted, degraded, and the attacker excused, apologized too, claimed not to be at fault, the attack claimed not to be as bad as the reverse, etc. No, they are equal victims (same with abuse). Male victims are just afraid to come forward. In fact, in marriage, men are slightly more likely to be abused.
Just look at the comic book section of TV Tropes’ Double Standard Rape: Female on Male - tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php…
Urgh, not this feminazi bullshit. There is nothing ‘non-PC’ about it. It is a dictionary defined fact and people have a right to their opinon. There is nothing ‘sexist’, or ‘oppressive’ or ‘misogynistic’ about it, especially when you take into account the biological and physical differences between females and males, especially when it comes to heterosexual intercourse. There is no ‘sexual double standard’ against women and there never was (it exists for men in the modern day), and men are not being ‘sexual hypocrites’. It is based on biological facts, and those women cannot take that truth and accept it, and instead bitch and whinging about what poor little victims they are (never made the fact that most of ‘feminism’ shames and demonizes male sexuality constantly), then they do not deserve the title of woman, or to be in the modern world, where they are treated as equals. That is not to say that women cannot sleep around/have sex before marriage. That is their choice after all, but that does not mean that people’s opinions on their choices, which have perfectly logical reasoning behind them (such as my own, but I won’t get into that), are bad. I would not touch a non-virgin woman, never mind go out with one. I will not go into this further, as I’ve gotten a lot of hate, for my views (you are already feeling that, anyway, I guess). So sorry. And sorry.
That’s fair actually. I can understand that. I have want a female villain who is not sexual/a femme fatale, or vain and obsessed with beauty or jealous over some woman getting a man she wants. The main female villain in my original story averts all this, even when at first, she seems to be the servant type of villainess. And I don’t even need to try when doing this, it just comes naturally. Sorry for bragging.
Legs fine, but there is a difference between natural nudity, and clothing designed to show the body in a sexual manner, such as visible cleavage or skin-tight clothing that shows everything. And as much as this is a cliché thing to say, those males are designed to appeal to the sexual desires of straight women or gay men, but to show how powerful they are. I hate to refer to Tumblr for anything ‘informative’, but perhaps, if you don’t know them already, then you should have a look at The Hawkeye Initiative and Escher Girls.
It does not change the fact that Harley was stupid enough to fall for the Joker’s lies, and has the ‘all girls like bad boys’ stereotype as well. And she stays because she is weak. I’m not saying real life women (or men) are weak for this, but she could easily walk away if she was not such a love-stuck idiot. And she always comes back. And she is a (well, milder than Ivy and Catwoman), femme fatale as well, when on her own.
In regard to martial arts, so what? A woman can choose to have a female teacher. And a woman who allows a man to train her (I’m sure he is as good as any, but it does not change the fact), she is not as much as a badass as she thinks she is, but is upholding traditional sexism and gender roles. If woman is trained by a man, or only in a certain positon because of a man, it counts as her being a subset of a man. It counts her not really being badass, as she is only badass on a man’s merits. And even if she does ‘surpass her mentor’, she would not have gotten there if the mentor had not given her his skills. Batman and Superman do not have any person which trained them (or even if they did, it would be highly likely to be male), or a heroic figure to inspire them (and also, would be male if so). Men train themselves or are trained by other men. Women are trained by men, or have a certain job because of a man, or were inspired by a man. That is the norm in fiction.
And late teens or early twenties females are women. The same with men.
The reverse and male victims will never reach the same level as the females, so it will always be sexist.
That…is suprizing, but are they ever sobbing or wailing like females would? I’m not saying that women who cry are weak, but that having a female character react to a certain situation in one way, and a man anther, is sexist. If a man will not cry in that situation, then a woman should not. If a man victim of being kidnapped or being held at gun or knife point is not crying and whimpering or begging for help, but the female should not either. This goes for real life too, but like the above thing about martial arts, one cannot and should not control anther in that way).
P.S: I am as sick of ‘feminists’ screaming about non-existent ‘patriarchy’ as much as you are.
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It seems to me that I could impose any of the criticisms you have just listed upon your story, likwise it seems that your justification for using similar tropes could be used to defend any of the examples you gave.
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How so? How can they? My version does not degrade the female characters, or stereotype either gender, or turn the male in a chivalrous, chauvinistic arsehole. And again, such examples come naturally to me. I don't even need to think (well, I still do, obviously) to write what I write, so why can other writers and creator not stop vomiting the same, boring, sexist, cliché stories and characters?
I'm not trying to be rude here, so sorry if I come across as that. I'm just curious.
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First of all, sorry about the paragraphs, next before I go onto the rest of the comment, I meant to say I am not an tumblr or Anita feminist. Well, I liked Anita until she claimed that having prostitutes and strippers in games is 'objectification', 'sexist' and that most overused word 'misogynistic', as that killing them is any different to killing other NPCs (not to mention, they are strippers and prostitutes). In addition, saying that there is a 'epidemic' of female-on-male violence, quoting the bullshit "A woman is abused/raped/murdered every X seconds" and "X amount of women are abused every year," which, as well as being bullshit, erase and ignore male victims. The final nail in the coffin came when she said that sexism against men is impossible, as men have 'privilege and power'. Urgh. There is no 'male privilege' any more. Female privilege? Plenty of that.
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It may take me a little while to reply back to your other post. If I spend too much time commenting on DA, my inbox will be flooded with literally thousands of messages, because I follow too many people. I can rarely afford to engage in serious debates online. My last reply took me hours, as I felt I had to do some reading on comic characters and their origin stories.
Feminist critics like Anita would charge a fortune for putting in hours of research. That's one of the biggest issues with modern feminism. Many modern feminists actually get PAID for speaking out on the subject. Beyonce, Emma Watson, Patricia Arquette, Anita, and a number of other celebrities (some of whom are male), have donators and benefactors. Advocating for a cause is neither charitable nor altruistic when you reap rewards from it.
This is contributing to "toxic feminism". There are a number of people in higher circles of society who have ulterior motives. Media personalities who need to make these issues seem as dire as possible, to get more public funding, do interviews, star on talk shows, and pocket cash monies. I'm not a GamerGater, but I know that if the media didn't make these actions so transparent, there wouldn't be as many accusations of collusion and bias journalism.
If it weren't for all this monetization, and blocking critics (imgur.com/k3Uxj44 ), critics would be kinder towards feminists. There will always be threats for as long as mental illness exists, due to how common sociopaths are (www.washingtonsblog.com/2012/0… ). The reason it seems like men target feminists more is partly because (according to current statistics) men suffer more from these mental conditions (www.quora.com/What-percentage-… ). That, and those who joke about #KillAllMen and #MaleTears , hashtags which would be considered sexist if they directed at women.
I could respond to your comment more, but I have to start work on your other post. Give it some time and I'll eventually get back to you...
Edit: Edited for spelling.
Additional Edit: Those hashtags are really old examples, and I don't think people use them much anymore. I think "piss baby" and "mansplain" are the c̶u̶r̶r̶e̶n̶t̶ most recent words used when trying to demoralize the male gender.
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Ah. Admittedly, it took me about an hour or so to reply as well. I’m sorry if I inconvenienced you.
Indeed. Let’s not forget that their speeches are absolute drivel, and the same bullshit every time: “Woman are oppressed everywhere…blah blah blah…women are still not equal…blah blah blah…men need to help us reach equality….…violence against women…misogynistic…I’m totally ignoring the fact that half of all abuse victims are male…spouting bullshit statistics like ‘a woman is abuse/raped every second/minute/hour and ‘X amount of women are abused/raped each year’…we must fight…’ etc. HeForShe is sexist in the very title, implying that men are for women to take and own, that men have to fight for and protect women (which is sexist against both sexes, not to mention holding up traditional, sexist gender roles). I liked Emma Watson until she came out with that speech. Now I’m not sure. In addition, Beyoncé (and Rhianna and Nikki Minaj, for that matter) claiming she is a ‘feminist’? HAHAHAHAHA! Yeah, nothing says ‘feminist’ like using your body to get to the top, instead of doing simple music videos with expressing meaningful topics, topics outside of sex and romance, and focusing on your voice. An even better choice would be you not making music videos at all. Again, all about your voice, and your supposed talent. Yes, you are so ‘inspirational’, teaching girls that in order to get to the top, you need to be a slut (again, it’s just a fact, not an insult).
Besides, the only actually oppression of women in the modern day exists in third world countries. And China and Japan. Even then, it’s not as bad as people claim it is, and men are held to oppressive, sexist standards as well. However, when someone claims that the dismissal of male abuse and rape victims are because the patriarchy, instead of admitting Feminism caused it, then they are spewing horse shit.
Another example is everyone who declared that man who killed the sorority girls was a ‘misogynist’ (killing a woman does not equal misogyny, nor does insulting a woman, and the very word is overused for the wrong things anyway). They forget, ignore, or simply don’t know that he killed several men as well. Once again. He was a lunatic, who killed those people for the same bitter reasons. Having those opinon in a normal person is perfectly fine, no matter how much ‘feminists’ screech about ‘objectification’ and ‘selfishness’. He took a disgusting response to them. Oh, and that reminds me of another feminist hypocrisy/sexism – they care about girls and women who are forced into the sex industry, while ignoring the many men and boys who are forced into it as well. That is a more general thing too; showing just how damaging modern feminism is today.
Anita herself is a con artist. Not to mention, her entire internet career is built on her being a damsel-in-distress, as many have noticed. Then we have the lies about the amount of online abuse or possible physical abuse.
It’s just nefarious really. It’s exploitation. It’s selfish. It’s a waste of money. Oh, I cannot stand GamerGate. Never mind the fact that Zoe Quinn was a cheater and a whore (as in, she exchanged sex for good reviews), but people painting her as the hero in that situation is disgusting. Just consider the reaction were the sexes reversed. Oh, how dare a man, especially a woman’s boyfriend, criticize a woman’s behaviour, especially if it is sexual behaviour! How dare a man be anger at his girlfriend for betraying him. How dare he point her pathetic, self-serving actions. Oh no! That’s slut shaming (which bad thing anyway – as I said, it’s called biological differences and the mark of a moral, healthy society), and oppression!!! If a woman is that oversensitive and easily offended, then she is not ready for the adult world, never mind a world of equality, where her hand will not be held and not everything will revolve around whether one’s feelings are hurt.
Indeed. I have recently been thinking of dropping the feminist label entirely (the only reason I still use it is because I want to show that at least some of us are not misandric retards who think the ‘patriarchy’ and ‘male/white privilege’ still exists. I’m thinking of just calling myself an egalitarianist.
Once again, I agree 
Again sorry. And thank you
I know about mansplain, but I’ll look up the other one.
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and donna troy. and raven, (who seems to have a rotating door as she's been killed how many times now?) and supergirl i believe as she died in the initial infinite crisis
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This is an adorable reinterpretation of the cover! It's great that in the midst of controversy, inspiration arises.
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Dawww, sweet 
Nothing like defanging the monster I love to hate the most... though it does fit the current vibe of Batgirl more I guess
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HA im sure nobody would complain to see Batgirl having a good time with the psycho that shoot her and paralyzed her. Ironic.
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Wow, it's almost like it's in keeping with the tone of the other Joker covers instead of being a violent rehash of an unpleasant event most of the character's fans would rather DC move away from.
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Love this cover but it sucks that they had changed the cover
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I want one of Barbara kicking Joker in the balls lol
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Actually, I saw plenty of men complaining about the cover too. Nice try blaming everything on feminists, though. BTW, I'm a feminist and I thought the original cover was just fine... it perfectly embodied how the joker was one creepy SOB and why he was the number one batman villain.
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