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#bert #sodor #awdry #railwayseries #arlesdalerailway
Published: 2016-11-29 23:08:24 +0000 UTC; Views: 5916; Favourites: 96; Downloads: 13
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It's really hard to believe that Bert and his real-life counterpart were both tank engines. I didn't think turning a tank engine into a tender engine was even possible!
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It's more common for members of a surpassed tender engine class to be rebuilt into a tank engine upon demotion (like with Albert) but if you look about there are actually a few cases where the opposite occurred as well, such as the former LB&SCR's Baltics. That said Muriel & Bert are quite an extreme example of such a conversion.
Not sure if you've seen the GWR Deans sent out to the continent during WW2 but they're quite an interesting hybrid Β Β Β
i1340.photobucket.com/albums/oβ¦
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Huh, pretty interesting.
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Now this is the best picture I have seen of Murial (I mean Bert) ever. Very clear despite being taken at the start of the century for a guess. Lovely shot mate
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Whoa. Was that a photo of River Irt as Muriel? I've only ever seen one photo and it was not as good as this one. Nice one.
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Thanks, quite pleased with how well this one turned out 
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in fact i just found the one i was talking about
www.shapeways.com/product/YHNNβ¦
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Oh I see Β Nope I've never heard of them but they look smart designs and it's nice seeing the model completed, the 04 chassis conversion notion might come in handy for a friend of mine if he gets around to modelling JockΒ Β Β
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funny someone made a 3D print of this engines model only a 0-6-0 desighn on shapways.com. :^
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Interesting, though by the sounds of it that would be Ella (other than their respective lengths and wheelbase they did look quite similar). Is this the page you are describing?
Β www.shapeways.com/product/WPDNβ¦
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yeah close enough... there is a version i had seen with cab walls and an entry in the back but this is the best resemblance
of it as discribed since it's the same design with no roof.
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Thanks, just what I was going for Β
I thought someone in the Sodor community must of made a Beriel in Trainz form already to be honest but either way it would be cool to see him moving about as a tank engine and maybe painted green or even blue. I've not really got my toe dipped into that side of things but out of curiosity do you know of anyone who has done a steam powered tender version of Rex in either sim or Trainz form by chance? Β Β
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Yes, I have! WildnorWester has!
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Somebody must make this into a trains model!
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Someone probably has something similar to Muriel.
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Or a simulator model.
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I meant a trainz simulator model.
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I LOVE IT! (can i ask where you found the original image?)
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Glad to of service and yes it seems you can Β The 1925 photo and the one taken from the other side can be found in 'Sir Arthur Heywood and the Fifteen Inch Gauge Railway'. The book doesn't exactly specialise on Muriel as it's about Heywood and his legacy in general but it does have one or two other pics of her, along with the odd drawing and I found the diagram bit showing her radial wheelbase quite interesting as I could never really get my head around it vs a normal coupled wheelbase-love his quote about it practically being the equivalent of two bogies!
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thanks! this is cool! the Heywood rotating axle locomotives have always been a favorite of mine! very appropriate edit!
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I knew River Irt/Bert was originally this shape but I have never seen such a detailed image before. Great work again.
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Cheers my dear. I took out Heywood's lining of the livery to make Bert a little different to Muriel down the road, as the pic was taken not long before his conversion but yeah I quite like this one too and it was refreshingly quick to doΒ Β Β
I've only seen them in the special once but i've definitely warmed up to guppy style of the small engine's CGI faces. Β Β Β
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I almost forgot that River Irt started out as a tank engine. Very nice!
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Yeah i've been meaning to make a Beriel edit for a while. I don't really like using CGI faces as they are harder to blend on photos than the ones from the model era but with a fair amount of tinkering and a little bit of Sepia magic I seem to have got away with it Β Anyway enough rambling-cheersΒ Β Β Β
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Well the face is CGI and the nameplate has been resized and over layered so no
Sorry very small joke but yes it's true as it can be in the world of fiction, as Bert starting off as a tank engine is RWS canon. This quote from IoS pretty much gives all the background we have on him.
Β 'An 0-8-2 tender locomotive. A rebuild by the Yorkshire Engine Co of an earlier 0-8-0 design whose chassis and valve gear is very similar to that used in the 1890's by Sir Arthur Heywood at Duffield Bank.Β
Β The addition of trailing wheels enabled a larger firebox to be fitted in the hope that this would cure "shy steaming", but this was not the case. It was not till 1973, when Ivan Farrier at Arlesburgh fitted a Kylchap blast pipe and taller chimney, that the trouble was cured.
Β Bert's appearance is now different from that shown in SRE/21. His taller chimney, with cab enlarged to match, has turned him into a Narrow Gauge Engine in his own right instead of, as formerly, as scaled down version of a standard gauge locomotive.
Β Bert is now as powerful and free steaming as Rex, but is more "sure footed", and in addition gives his driver a smoother ride.'Β
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Every time I see Bert as a little tank engine like this, I always think of Jonateers' audio story 'Canon Ball'. You did brilliantly on this ol' chum.
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I was quite oblivious to it to be honest but just had a watch of a CGI type vid of his story by Revol2016 and quite enjoyed it.......Actually the conversations about his new shape was quite interesting. I'm not sure if it will effect the final one of Bert I half started sometime back but i'll bare it in mind before I wrap up my Arlesdale Railway themed drive. Anyway cheers and thanks for the usual kind wordsΒ Β
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Thanks for your kind words in regards to my videoΒ
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Quite alright. I don't tend to watch a lot of Sodor stuff on Youtube but it really was an enjoyable story and the style of the vid rather stands out from the norm Β Β
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Yeah, it was quite a good story I must say and the CGI-type vid was very well done too. Bert's new shape is, I think, one of the most discussed about topics because we've never had the opportunity to see it in the full so we, as the story maintains, have had to draw our own conclusions in essence; so, really, there's no right or wrong as to what Bert's new shape looks like..although, we can at least surmise, at the very least, that his new shape is derived from River Irt's current appearance.
And you're quite welcome Sleeper.
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I did also quite like tank engine Bert's deadweight response to being told that he was going to have a tender as it reminds me of the LB&SCR's train of thought and it was a nice reversal of Skarloey's opinion of his extensions. The convo between Mite and Rex was good too-I knew at least one person in the fan community must of made a powered tender gag somewhere but I had yet to come across any.
Hmm regarding your point I suppose you could compare the issue with the 'canon' of Jock's 6 wheeled tender thanks to there only being the erroneous Spong pics of him in the series but I actually lost a debate on the TTTE wiki some time back about Bert gaining a larger boiler because it's not directly mentioned in either IoS or RBTL and so it was deemed unofficial conjecture but between the wording and all the various parallels of the 4 tender characters I have little doubt that is what Awdry intended and therefore his evolution most of been completed no later than 1986 if nothing else (as that is when The Island of Sodor was completed for publishing 
I don't have any pics, or certainly not to hand but River Irt only had his old boiler with enlarged cab for a year if memory serves and this is what Revol depicts in his vid it seems but I do like how he kept the original side windows of Bert's cab in the redesign as that is a nice personal take on itΒ Β
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Yeah, it was quite a clever little idea having Bert think that extensions will only mean dead weight as opposed to Skarloey's thoughts that extensions will make him the superior engine. That powered tender gag in Mike and Rex's convo puts me in mind of how, in Thomas & Friends merchandise such as the Tomy/Tomica toys, power for the tender engines come from the tenders..some of them actually being tender-driven (i.e. Murdoch and Emily). So 'twas a good little gag I think.
This is the thing with elements such as Jock's tender and Bert's larger boiler being 'canon' because, as you rightly pointed out there, none of it is strictly mentioned in either IoS or RBTL; I've never actually read either in their fullest, so I might have to get a hold of a copy of both books and have a look at the sections concerning the Arlesdale engines. But yeah, Revol's depiction of Bert in the vid was a good personal take on Bert's new shape.
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Well the only 'evidence' of Jock's tender I would completely ignore as for some reason Spong drew all the AR engines like that, which was pretty odd (must of got a little too used to drawing the big engine's Fowler tenders). Beside their tender boogies he also doesn't include the lamp irons Mike, Bert and Rex had in their book, Sleeping Beauty and the Hodges annuals....but for some reason he did with Jock??? I don't know, I enjoy it as a stand alone book but from start to finish it is pretty riddled with flaws to be honest
Regarding the boiler RBTL doesn't really help my point as like with Henry II Christopher's companion book unfortunately muddies the water in my opinion but I'll show it for transparency.
'Bert is a 0-8-2 tender engine, who was rebuilt by the Yorkshire Engine Company, and his running gear is not dissimilar to locomotives used by Sir Arthur Heywood on his Duffield Bank Railway.
In an attempt for counter(ing?) poor steaming a pair of trailing wheels was added so that a larger firebox could be inserted, but the problem was not solved until 1973 when a Kylchap blastpipe and longer chimney were fitted. His livery is blue, lined with red. His equivalent at Ravenglass is River Irt.'
IoS.
Β 'An 0-8-2 tender locomotive. A rebuild by the Yorkshire Engine Co of an earlier 0-8-0 design whose chassis and valve gear is very similar to that used in the 1890's by Sir Arthur Heywood at Duffield Bank.Β
Β The addition of trailing wheels enabled a larger firebox to be fitted in the hope that this would cure "shy steaming", but this was not the case. It was not till 1973, when Ivan Farrier at Arlesburgh fitted a Kylchap blast pipe and taller chimney, that the trouble was cured.
Β Bert's appearance is now different from that shown in SRE/21. His taller chimney, with cab enlarged to match, has turned him into a Narrow Gauge Engine in his own right instead of, as formerly, as scaled down version of a standard gauge locomotive.
Β Bert is now as powerful and free steaming as Rex, but is more "sure footed", and in addition gives his driver a smoother ride.'Β Β
Oh I re-found the info on River Irt I was after on-Β
rerps.co.uk/locomotive/river-iβ¦
'In 1972 its appearance was improved by the addition of a taller chimney, cab and dome together with a new bogie tender of narrow-gauge proportions. Its performance was enhanced from 1977 with the fitting of a larger boiler similar to the other Ravenglass steam locos.'
I was a little out with how long he retained his small boiler in combination with his new cab and other fittings but still it's well within the book's publishing date and Awdry did keep up to date with the railway as Jock and the radio towers were mentioned in advance of any follow up etc and it just seems obvious that Bert would inevitably gain a larger boiler to complete his 'Narrow Gauge Engine' set up and bring him into line with the Mite, Rex and Jock.
Sorry I didn't mean to bash you over the head with this but that's my two cents on the matter. Β
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Nah, it's all good Sleeper; it's actually really fascinating delving into Sodor's history and whatnot. And cheers for the info on River Irt, I might give that a read at some point as I'm quite interested in the River Irt/Bert case. And I, too, have noticed a few slip-ups in Spong's illustrations..perhaps he was a wee bit too used to drawing Fowler tenders; that and I noticed his consistency is a wee bit off too.
All-in-all, I think this case of Bert's shape is as equally interesting to delve into as the case of Henry I and the Fowler tenders we discussed at an earlier date in the year.
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