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Sovietmaster — Soviet Beats Nazi.
Published: 2009-05-05 21:28:00 +0000 UTC; Views: 1888; Favourites: 9; Downloads: 11
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Well the title says it all and history has proven it.Related content
Comments: 39
And Democracy/ Freedom beats communism^^
History has proven it
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Ah yes, the freedom of western germany allowing nazis to join the ranks of its intelligence division was very democratic.
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Well you forget that Nazi meant mainly to be part of the Nazi-party, and everyone who wanted to work had to be a member, so being a Nazi didn´t mean automatically to be a racist. And I think Westgermany was much more free than the east, where even the children spyed their parents. And the great economical idea of communism without capitalism ruined whole east-europe, thanks communism!^^
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Yeah like those members of the July coup that didn't want a German Monarchy/autocracy.
But really your own words of 'well not EVERYONE was a nazi' just proves your an apologist to them. Face it, you loved Nazis destroying Eastern Europe and the USSR.
But in any case, do you have any proof to said statements? I'll take words without backing (which I will back my own words) with little care.
In fact, did you know when Soldarity came into power into Poland they practically ruined the nation? That they were fully endorsed by the US, were xenophobic and basically the Polish aristocracy incarnate?
Most Polish worker members only wanted living standards exactly like the west (they were always fascinated by the west, even though the Polish economy was at its best in the 60s and 70s).
But I guess you love neo-nazi, pedophilic, drug-torn, war-torn eastern europe.
Like the Yugoslav wars.
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Oh my god, very brave to affirm so much about my attitude, although you know nothing about me^^
But I can clarify it.
I dislike all radical systems, no matter which political way. I hate Nazis and communists and you don´t want to wake up and see, that both were horrible systems, which killed millions of people and it´s good that both systems ended.
And what I love is freedom, democracy, capitalism as long as no other system is invented that really works, patriotism and to save our environment.
And I think you´re one of that people, that thinks all of the 70 mio Germans in the 3. Reich were evil monsters, which is really laughable. There were so many Germans who saved jews in their homes, by risking their lifes, one of my ancestors helped some, and the Nazis put also a huge number of Germans in the camps.
You can´t make a whole folk evil, it seems u know nothing about history before the 3. Reich, you don´t even know surely, that the first national-socialistic party was founded in Czech.
Governments, leaders and their helpers make war and politics, not the normal people. They must obey or their families die, what would u do?
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Yes 'freedom'. What is freedom? Voting for a party that doesn't give you any support or voice, nor represents your interests and rather divides you among people?
The fuck, you think America or Germany was democratic in the 50s? What is democracy? It all boils down to a class dictatorship with one class on top.
Before this, the Feudal Monarchs were on top. Now the bourgeois is upon the highest class (you can practically see how it happened within the French Revolution as the left and right fought over how society was to be formed.)
But you really can't glorify capitalism if you just said in a previous post 'all systems did bad things' yet you masturbate to current society like it was teh best thing ever.
But, you're basically being a closet nazi. Why? I never did say all Germans within the 3rd Reich were 'evil', you said not every one within the Nazi party was 'bad'.
Even though all Nazi members agreed on racial superiorty of the Germans and basically wanted to make Eastern Europe their backyard.
I can critically condemn the german people for ignoring or not noticing the holocaust.
But you're, now, making the word Nazi and 3rd Reich synamous with the word "German". You're trying to save credibility.
But, ultimately, I almost see you as a version of Vlasov. You're trying to justify not being critical of the 3rd Reich members nor having some criticism upon the people.
What are "normal people"? The workers in the factories that are oppressed and ultimately enraptured in the idea that they might gain a better life with the upper class (much like southern farmers in the south during the civil war) or the soldiers and citizens?
And even if you say 'it's good both system ended' you obviously don't know that the living standards when down by twenty years(and is going down) in Russia and the other republics. (In Central Asian Republics, they are vastly decreasing) [link]
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Freedom is for me to have at all the chance to vote several partys and not only one! Freedom is that no Stasi (like in the DDR) controll every word I do. Freedom are the laws in the german constitution Art. 1-20 GG. Freedom is to watch and read what I want. And freedom is to farm the way I want, in a huge farm if I want.
All that was a dream in the communistic states!
I didn´t talk about the 50s, of course democracy had to develope. But look at today, it was never better in history. Germany has one of the best social-systems in the world, noone in Germany has to sleep under a bridge or doesn´t get food, that´s impossible here, except that person doesn´t want the help.
And when I don´t care that there exist rich people, a higher class as you say? I and most of the Germans have everything they need, so why are u so jealous about some people, who worked hard to biuld a company and now get the much money they deserve? It´s absolutely ok!
I didn´t say capitalism is perfect, I know it can be bad, I said, it´s the only system working at the moment, so don´t change always my words please.
Ok sorry when I said you think all Germans were evil, I just know that many communists think that. And yes nearly everyone who worked was in the Nazi-Party, some soldiers became even members without knowing it, so it´s weird to say, they all were evil Nazists. And no, if u would read some diaries from Germans of that time u´ll know, that not many believed in that super-human theory, only the radical ones and the SS.
What the Nazi-Propaganda doesn´t show, but what we always see in the american history-channels is, that the german soldiers treated the Russians well...the normal soldiers. The SS and the "Cleaning-Troups" were the murderers. Surely also normal soldiers, but not in majority.
They fought because everyone was a afraid a red-wave would destroy Europe from the east, that was the main fear of the german soldiers and so they fought. And they were right, the red army was the most criminal murderoues army ever, even the normal soldiers!
Haha, don´t switch what I said^^
I´m critikal about the Nazis, I know about their crimes, I visited a concentration-camp. But what u deny is, that the communists were bigger criminals. The only reason all say the Nazis were the most evil is, because they lost and everyone could spread the propaganda after the war for many many years.
Again u´re in the wrong time. The workers had a bad situation in the 19th century, but today there´re not big problems, or do u see any big revolutions at the horizon? Communism has died and will never rise again.
As I said, many Nazis were bad criminals killing hundred-thousands and I hate them. But the communists were as or even more criminal, so they don´t have the right be called liberators. When one dictatorship destroys another, that doesn´t mean the winning one is good or better!
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Right, and you know that even if the "Stasi" did "control everything I(you) did", then they did it because the CIA always decided to do shit to Eastern Germany. Either covert missions or sabotage, sometimes even supporting terrorist groups.
"American cold warriors, however, as if discontent with the game score or with leaving so much to chance, instituted a crude campaign of sabotage and subversion against East Germany designed to throw the economic and administrative machinery out of gear. The CIA and other US intelligence and military services in West Germany (with occasional help from the likes of British, intelligence and the West German police) recruited, equipped, trained and financed German activist groups and individuals of West and East. Finding recruits for such a crusade was not difficult, for in post-war Germany, anti-communism lived on as the only respectable vestige of Naziism." (Killing Hope, William Blum, pp 61)
"The most active of these groups, which went by the name of Fighting Group Against Inhumanity, admitted that it had received financial support from the Ford Foundation and the West Berlin government.5 Subsequently, an East Berlin news magazine published a copy of a letter from the Ford Foundation confirming a grant of $150,000 to the National Committee for a Free Europe "so that it, in turn, could support the humanitarian activities of 'The Fighting Group Against Inhumanity'."6 The National! Committee for a Free Europe, in turn, was a CIA front organization which also ran Radio Free Europe.7
The Association of Political Refugees from the East, and the Investigating Committee of Freedom-minded Jurists of the Soviet Zone, were two of the other groups involved in the campaign against East Germany. The actions carried out by these operatives ran the spectrum from juvenile delinquency to terrorism; anything "to make the commies look bad". It added up to the following remarkable record:8
• through explosives, arson, short circuiting, and other methods they damaged power stations, shipyards, a dam, canals, docks, public buildings, gas stations, shops, a radio station, outdoor stands, public transportation;
• derailed freight trains, seriously injuring workers; burned 12 cars of a freight train and destroyed air pressure hoses of others;
• blew up road and railway bridges; placed explosives on a railway bridge of the Berlin-Moscow line but these were discovered in time—hundreds would have been killed;
• used special acids to damage vital factory machinery; put sand in the turbine of a factory, bringing it to a standstill; set fire to a tile-producing factory; promoted work slow-downs in factories; stole blueprints and samples of new technical developments;
• killed 7,000 cows of a co-operative dairy by poisoning the wax coating of the wire used to bale the cows' corn fodder;
• added soap to powdered milk destined for East German schools;
• raided and wrecked left-wing offices in East and West Berlin, stole membership lists; assaulted and kidnapped leftists and, on occasion, murdered them;
• set off stink bombs to disrupt political meetings;
61
• floated balloons which burst in the air, scattering thousands of propaganda pamphlets down upon East Germans;
• were in possession, when arrested, of a large quantity of the poison cantharidin with which it was planned to produce poisoned cigarettes to kill leading East Germans;
• attempted to disrupt the World Youth Festival in East Berlin by sending out forged invitations, false promises of free bed and board, false notices of cancellations; carried out attacks on participants with explosives, firebombs, and tire-puncturing equipment; set fire to a wooden bridge on a main motorway leading to the festival;
• forged and distributed large quantities of food ration cards—for example, for 60,000 pounds of meat—to cause confusion, shortages and resentment;
• sent out forged tax notices and other government directives and documents to foster disorganization and inefficiency within industry and unions;
• "gave considerable aid and comfort" to East Germans who staged an uprising on 17 June 1953; during and after the uprising, the US radio station in West Berlin, RIAS (Radio In the American Sector), issued inflammatory broadcasts into East Germany appealing to the populace to resist the government; RIAS also broadcast warnings to witnesses in at least one East German criminal case being monitored by the Investigating Committee of Freedom-minded Jurists of the Soviet Zone that they would be added to the committee's files of "accused persons" if they lied." (Page 61-2)
"The United States admitted its role in the creation and training of the guerrilla army, but denied any involvement in the "illegal, internal, and political activities" of the organization. But Zinn reported that the Americans had learned of the plotting in May and had not actually dissolved the group until September, the same month that German Security Police arrested a number of the group's leaders." (63)
"Many of the victims of Swiatlo's purges were people who had spent the war years in the West rather than in the Soviet Union and thus had crossed Field's path. These were people who tended to be more nationalist Communists, who wanted to put greater distance between their countries and the Soviet Union, as Tito had done in Yugoslavia, and who favored a more liberal regime at home. Dulles brushed aside the argument that these were people to be supported, not eliminated. He felt that they were potentially the more dangerous to the West because if their form of Communism were allowed to gain a foothold in Eastern Europe then Communism might become respectable and accepted; particularly with Italy and France threatening to vote Communists into power, Communism had to be shown at its worst."(Killing Hope, pp58)
And No. They didn't. They fought because they wanted to, thus you're caving in to a more closet-nazi position. Why? You're justifying them killing innocent citizens of Eastern Europe as a 'fear of the Red wave."
And for one in Greece, Georgia, Russia, Central Asian, US, Cote d'Ivoire, Burkhan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwaits workers are actually in a very bad condition. Migrant workers in the OPEC Middle eastern nations are actually more so slaves, thus showing that you're really just a dumbass whose taking out of his ass.
You're logic that "Well communists were WORSE CRIMINALS" is basically vague. Do you have any proof? No, you're going through oral speech and showing yourself more open a nazi since they use the same thing to. "We were not as bad as the communists!"
And do they deserve ALL the money they get whilst the workers get a small fraction? Whatever happened to that community love Germans used to have? Or the fact they didn't work hard to build it up, rather they were funded by the Marshal plan.
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Sure ! Even in the number of victims !
" ... and history has proven it."
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Last post was meant to say ''True true'' Sorry for that >.=.<
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Commuism tends to lose against capitalism, and the Nazi party where extream capitalist so this is an isolated case me thinks
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Well Communism has never, ever, been here on this Earth. Socialism lost to Capitalism because of Revisionism,Distrust, and Reformism in the 4th International.
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Just saying. For doesnt Communism= a Classless Stateless Society? Since the CCCP had a state there wernt Communist.
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suffice to say it works well in theory but there will always be people 'more equal' that others.
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I've heard this alot. If people are "More Equal then others" then its Capitalism.
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Quote from a book. And yes I know the definition of Capitalism, I was pointing out the human flaw in communism.
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Human Flaw? Yes we Humans are imperfect but we only have flaw if we INTEND to be in flaw. Also Humanity will have to go through Socialism and there will be no goverment in Communism so I dont see how anyone will be more equal then someone else. Communism= no state or ruling body.
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Of cource theres a state in communism, who owns the big bussinesses? Without Big bussinesses, the shared economy would collapse. Without a ruling body it would be chaos, there needs to be a police or somthing to stop crimials you evidently get in any society, they might share wealth but not moral vaules.
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There is a milta in Communism but by deffination, in all good dictionaries, it is a Classless Stateless Society. Socialsim has a state. From the stage of Socialism to Communism we wouldnt need a state for humanity would be united and at peace for the 1st time.
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Well I am a Communist so i should know.
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You can't just be a communist, you need other people
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There isnt a Communist party in Texas comrade. you are refering to in the dicionary that a Communist is apart of a Communist party. But there can be Communists that arent in Communist parties/organiztions but I'll soon join a party as soon as I find a good one for CPUSA are traitors.
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I think your glamourising Communism, theres nothing wrong with being a socialist, I am but communism is a dictatorship and a last resort for a contry in some sort of economic downslide, everyone may be equal but that have no say in how things are run, and that in worste than capitalism in some ways as most of the westen word is capitalist but also a democracy. You can't have both. Communism, though you may not agree is a form of repression and I can't agree with that.
I've got nothing against evryone being equal but communism is not the answer.
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so comrade tell me where was Communism? Was it in the Soviet Union? China? Cuba? No. Communism, and here is by quote from dictonary, a Classless statelss Society so how can the Soviet Union be Communist if it had a state? the Socialist China died in 1976 and cuba is Socialist but going downhill. Communism has been slandered by the Capitalists. also how is the west "Democratic?" Is Imperialism on other countries democratic? is cheating and slandering anothers name for self asurtion democratic? is making the working class suffer Democratic? So how can Communism be a dictatorship if the Proletarian, the workers, are in power during Communism? The "Dictatorship of the Proletarain" is rule of the workers. Take for examle the Soviets(meaning worker counicles) during the Revolution of Russia. they were used to optain Socialism. I am almost certain you take to Mao-Tse Tung, fidel Castro,Joseph Stalin,ect.. are the people that made "Repression?"
Comrade if you want you can join Revleft.com for we need more socialists. Its a good learning/discussion site.
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Now your being flippent, look the west IS a democracy because it works on asytem where people vote and since your going on at me about definition, it might well have 'chaeting and slander' dosn't make it any less of a democracy and with enough people the cheaters can't get into a seat of power thats the point. Extreams of ither wing are dictaorships, its what happens regards of dictionary defionition.
And the works arn't in power, how do they get there voices heard? They don't have a vote since theres no state so who stands up for their ideals and what they want in their communitys?
And anyway, without a vote, without a state, everyone being equal so no one is special or has any more power than the next man, how do simple things that the goverment regulate in a demoracy happen? Who do people turn to if their community needs somthing? Riots? I don't know.
Oh and please don't talk to me like i'm close minded, and don't reffuse to accept the benifits of other types of socity it weakens your own argument.
(sorry my spelling is just awefull)
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Well if I was to ask a Communist in a way Communism
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Well its a shame you have such a bleak outlook on democracy it gets a lot right, sure some people are corrupt and help to spoil the sytem but the same thing would happen in communism and has in fact happened in every non-theroical practice of communism. So we're back to square one, human weakness.
Pleasues all mine, I like a good political debate and yes I have an msn.
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ah. So we can debate on Msn then?
But yes corruption has happened in the Socialist phase of the countries. Such as Revisionism in the Soviet Union. And the Capitalist restoriation in China and ect. But still many in the left would say Communism = Democracy for it does give freedom to all. Human weakness can be over come only if you want it to. (so what is your MSN comrade?)
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Well theres no vote, so I don't see how it is, voting being fundamental for a democracy.
Well comrade i'm not going to post my msn adress on this page, note me yours
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Ah ok then. Already sent.
Dont the Workers vote? Dont the Worker councile vote? I mean Joseph Stalin got in power through Democratic voting by the workers/CP. The Bolsheviks, the majority, voted for him. But here I go as a Marxist-Leninist-Maosit again..
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Well all i'm saying is that I'm a supporter of the democratic 'first past the post' sytem like we have here in the U.K I dunno what voting sytem was used in Stalins time, so i can't make a informed judgement on that.
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Well I didnt know you were in the UK comrade. But tell me do you have to say God say the queen?
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have to?
I've never HAD to say it. Though it is part of the nation anthem 
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We HAVE to say "the pledge of alligence" to the US/Texas Flag everyday at school. I just mumble because I denouce Nationalism.
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