Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-04 17:09:18 +0000 UTC]

I OFFICIALY LOVE YOU!!!! You are among the first ones who understood the poem in total! Bravo, you are a very, very, very deep person.
I'll explain every line just like you did so you can see the almost insignificant differences...

(While his other, six brothers
Kissed their chalices along the way
He paced alone under the candles.)

OK, Six brothers and the seventh is the man pacing, different from the others... seven is a magical symbol and in one the number of billions of people living on Earth... the other six ones just pace through their lives (the path is the life continuum) when the seventh (the symbolic manifestation of the people alike me, the lyrical subject here) tries to fill himself with knowledge, to fill his chalice with wine (the golden chalice is an ancient pagan symbol for the womb, the female principal, the material world and in this situation the physical body)... his brothers only kiss them, not fill them, they glorify outter beauty and the shallow principal of the rapid modern life... the candles are symbols of light and guidance (not religion in any sense), logic and will power, sense (you thought it ment he doesn't appreciate logic, that is wrong, logic is apsolutely and positively everything to him)... Him not paying attention to his brothers, while they do pay attention to him is just the way these lifes go, the ones who think don't mind the ones who don't, while the ones who don't, think that the ones who do are weird and unneeded.

(With a look he inflamed the books in front of him,
And poured their ashes in his own goblet.
Then, with a stir he turned them into wine.)

Here, the gaze is the symbol of the intelligent momentum, the moment of revelation and recognition, he realizes the truth through the gaze and through the books... he enflames them because they are something that needs apsolute attention and are all-worthy... no drop of ash must go unnoticed... the ashes (the unmanned resource) are turned into wine (a symbol of wisdom, maturity and fertility, both of mind and body) with a stir inside the chalice (the logical process, the inteligence of mind and the curing of the barren ashes - unconnected information of the complex world)

(Not even he knew why,
But he didn’t want to bring it empty down the road,
Beneath, deep within the Necropolis)

You understood this part completely, obviously... it's just a mention of an all-time phenomena - men try to learn about life as much as they can, they try to become good at everything and acomplish as much as they can through life, yet none of them ever stayed alive - here comes the egsistential paradox that Albert Camus calls "a drama of absurdity"... we roll in a circle through life just to get to the same place... nothing we ever do is good enoguh to stop death, so why do we do anything? (if this was a cmpletely logical world, the babies should be slain on birth - why would they even bother living and facing those horrors when they are getting the same place - off course this can not be the truth even if it's brutal but logical and that "off course" is the exact thing I'm talking about here - the subject doesn't know why is he trying to become smarter, yet he is trying on and on...)

(Nobody knew why all that;
The dry earth will welcome and keep anyone.
In it, all are but same pieces of metal.)

Now comes the interesting part... here the brothers are the ones who are more logical - they are the ones not knowing why is he trying to learn when they are just pieces of metal to the Earth mother - with this, I'm showing the ultimate paradox - reason is a mistake in evolution - animals are perfect machines of nature, they do exactly what nature intended them to do, they live of their instincts and live quite normaly, yet now reason comes into being through evolution and wrecks everything for the race of men, they start thinking that they are obliged to learn and try, when the only thing they are obliged to do is what their instincts tell them - live, eat, sleep, have babies, and die in the end - the six brothers are looking at him strangely just and only because of their instincs, their basic animalistic senses - they do not see logic in study, they see logic into blind pacing which is exactly what nature wants from us and ultimetly that is the only ever goal of our lives - what nature wants, she is the ultimate meaning of everything, not logic - nature is non-logical but absolute!
The Earth is the mother calling us back in, back to where we came from, inside her... and she doesn't care if we are smart or not, we are only material to her... you got this part completely too.

(The Necropolis has never been thirsty...)

This is a pun, the ultimate thought of the poem - death is just the end of a logicly meaningless, but naturaly ordered cycle, the necropolis is the ulitmate symbol of death as a philosophy of naturalistic nihilism, a philosophical direction to which I belong... I won a state based award for this thought-sentence as a stylized version of the complete materialistic philosophy of our group (I belong to a debate club group which takes side with this philospohy)... my whole poetry collection is named NECROPOLIS as an homage to the one inspiration of mine, philosophy of life, and I use it as a symbol in almost every one of my poems...

... you are immensely inteligent and deep to understand such a stylized version, the whole story-board prose text of the poem before densing it into it's final state is concised in almost 7 pages

... btw, my father is a graphic artist and works with metaphore a lot, he understands it much better than me, he is not trying to keep me away from it, on the contrary, he's trying to teach me how to use it more aproachable to people, more simple and able to take in... )) this - the metaphores are the spice of life - I like very much!

so... I wouldn't want to blow my own horn, but I think I understand philosophy symbolism at least good enough to tell you that you don't have anything to worry about... when I say that a piece is good acording to some standards, it is for most of the the people who work with this... I'm not trying to flatter you, I'm also telling you where you have a little bit of a weak place, but when I tell you your piece is good, I'm totaly honest! Believe me! You are great!!!!!

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-04 22:21:43 +0000 UTC]

Woooow!!! Superlongpost! Hehe.

OMG. YOU ARE AMAZING. I am SO HAPPY you took the time out to talk to me about this, and explain where your inspirations lie. It's intruiging to talk to a naturalistic-nihilist, I've never met one in my life. I personally don't really believe in evolution due to complex reasons (I feel it takes so much more faith to beleive in Evolution than Creation, but I kind of feel they go hand-in-hand. Like I said, it's complex and I won't bore you with my thoughts.), but I do agree with your statements about mankind's eventual wisdom being a mistake. We were intended to be connected with nature, to take care of it like it takes care of us. But, nowadays, mankind loves the things of metal, of smoke, and of wheels, robots, weapons, and steel. The very things that are rapidly chafing away at nature.

Meh, I'm blabbing. So sorry.

That's a good thing about your dad, I my first thoughts were that he was being too judgemental of you, but I stand corrected! ^^ He sounds like an amazing person, and very seasoned in his work. I would love to have someone to inspire me like that, in my life, you know, look over my shoulder and coach me on what I'm doing right or wrong. "Constructive critiscism." ^^ He obviously gives good advice! I'm glad you liked the "spice of life" comment. ^___^ hehe.

You are on a debate team!!! How incredible! We never had a debate team when I was in school, all my school cared about was Basketball/prom. Our academic team was the best in the state, but nobody in the school recognized it. It was very disappointing and upsetting. Art was just a bird course (you attended, you passed, "flew right through it") as was Music. Ah, the joys of living in a small town. =/ Ugh. Congratulations on your state award, btw! That's SO incredible. The only decent credentials I have was a perfect score in English on a state college exam, a perfect distinguished writing score on my state portfolio which was composed of 6 pieces (a Kentucky education requirement thing), and a position as a top editor in my Journalism class. Which was really fun. ^^

Thank you so much for saying that I am intelligent...sometimes I certainly don't feel so. But I really am grateful for you taking the time out to discuss things like this with me, I enjoy it immensely, there are no people to talk about poetry and the like here where I live. I truly do harbor a passion for the arts!

Thank you for your critique on my own work, I promise to use your advice in the future.

OHH!! And I love you, too. Officially.

-Jodi

P.S. Can you speak Greek? Random question, sorry. lol

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-05 18:10:13 +0000 UTC]

heheh no problem, and you aren't bothering me at all, on the contrary, I would like you to talk to me about your views on philosophy... far and wide!

don't worry about your school failing your expectations, mine wasn't so great either... we did the debate team on our own...
I'm serious when I say you are good and please don't ever think you aren't!!!

No, I don't speak Greek... I know why would you ask that, but that's a great misconception... we just have some political problems with Greece these times... they don't want to admit our country's name (Macedonia) because it will mean them loosing the historical rights on Alexander the Great... and our country (as the lesser one in the world power) must change it because that is what America tells it... if we do, we will lose the rights to Alexander, our only valuable historical figure... Bush was on our side, but now Obama isn't so much... srry for boring you with this political crap, just wanted to explain to you that we are different countries, and as much as I wanted to know Greek (just for the sake of the language being nice) I was never obliged to learn... we are Slavic here... part of old Yugoslavia if you heard... (my country's full ON name is Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia - America knows us only as Macedonia, they accepted us, and we were grateful for that)... srry again for being dull

keep in touch, I'd like to hear everything you think about evolution and creation, and then I'll try to explain evolution a lot better than you have ever heard it, you'll see, you'll start believing it...!
take care

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-05 22:15:30 +0000 UTC]

My views are so distorted, they usually just confuse people.

I am definitely spiritual, there's no argument about that. But I am no radical, and I believe science and faith, like I said, go hand-in-hand. I believe in a Creator who sees all and knows all, I believe in the omniscience of a being who thinks of humans so much more than the minds of flesh could comprehend. However, I am NOT for sickening TV-evangelists and their money laundering, and I do not try to justify war, or the sin-laden, pathetic actions of so-called Christians. The very term "Christian" annoys me. I do not attempt to be like Christ, because all attempts are futile and useless. God is perfect, we will never be. I attempt to only better my self, and help others along the way, and live my God's commands.

I believe the world is much, much older than [approx.] 5,000 years, contrary to popular Christian belief. I don't know about trillions of years, but definitely pretty old. Either way, I don't believe God is limited to time. I believe there was a Pangaea, I believe that birds came from small carnivorous dinosaurs, I believe in the early age of man. Regardless, I do not believe the human race formed from chimpanzees. I believe we are entirely separate. However, I do believe that we are (obviously) very close cousins, and that man has always been a constant, as far as genetic makeup is concerned.

See? I told you my views are weird. I've never met a person who thinks the same way I do. If I were to tell my views to most of my friends, they would think I was blasphemous. But the proof is in the pudding! I can't stand small-minded Theists who refuse to accept science along with faith. Faith is science, and science is proof. Faith in science proves faith exists. That’s just my own little opinion.

Science, and faith in anything alone proves that God exists, even if it is "faith" in the Big Bang, or evolution. The fact that there is such a thing as truth proves God exists. Logic. Morality. Mathematics. Physics. It's all there. They all prove God exists. The proof that God exists is the proof that you couldn't prove anything without Him, without the absolution of every single scientific, mathematic, moral, logical law.

Blah, blah, blah. So sorry if I'm boring you, but I like talking about this stuff.

See? I kind-of already believe in evolution. I don’t denounce or renounce it. I believe humans have evolved (and we all know the very word "evolve" means "change, grow, progress") very, very much since the brink of time. They have evolved in build, knowledge, wisdom, ethic, the way they apply nature, the way they don't apply it. I believe animals have drastically evolved, too.

The whole idea of “vestigial” organs annoys me. Who cares whether or not we lost something? Either way, it’s evolutional, because evolution is non-directional. You can’t get “higher” or “lower,” merely better adapted to your environment. And the whole human fetal gill slits thing is ridiculous, too. Christians STILL try to throw that argument in, but scientists have already debunked Ernest Hackel’s theory. (Like, 130 yrs ago.) It’s all just proven embryonic homology. We ARE related to other mammals! We DO have some of the same characteristics!

Meh. Regardless of all of this, science doesn’t have all the answers. Scientific experts don’t even claim to have all the correct answers. (Contrary, again, to popular Christian belief.) Scientists only try to use what we have and live on/with to find answers, fulfill the human need to know and obtain, to discover and share. Unfortunately, scientists will NEVER have all the answers, and neither will Creationists. To say that God does everything/puts everything in course is foolish, but to say that He doesn’t have a hand in most things is also foolish. He gave us the capacity to learn to learn, and apply.

Some people toss me the no-God argument, based on the questions “If God exists, and is perfect, why would He create imperfect people that He is only going to punish?” and “How could a being that is intelligent enough to create the universe be so haughty and paltry enough to have people suffer for all eternity because they wouldn’t be His cheerleader?”

My answer is simply because He can. o_O It sounds like a retarded answer, but it’s a truth, to me. I’m not going to sit around trying to figure God out. Waste of my time. I’m grounded in what I wish to believe. Anyways, isn’t it better to be safe, than sorry? Better to believe God exists and be wrong, than to believe He doesn’t exist and be wrong?

God wanted to see how man themselves would evolve, and who would choose to place science above higher things, place higher things above science, or what few would find the medium between the two. Why else would we have free will? How else would we have the freedom to choose our beliefs, whether they be in material or immaterial? Yeah, science really matters. Yeah, higher things really matter.

But it all just melds together.

Yep. Believe it or not, I’m not confused. I just love to learn, and I love proof. It’s just a task trying to explain everything I believe, so I’ll just stop here. I don’t really talk and discuss with a lot of people how I feel, because it usually just results in criticism and scoff, or the mention of me needing to be in a psyche ward…

Anyways, that sums a fragment of it up. Lol!

I really like talking to you. Very much. ^^ May I add you as a friend?

Sorry about the misconception that you would possibly speak Greek. I didn't know about the whole Alexander the Great thing. To be honest, I don't know much about Macedonia, other than that it's a province of Greece and currently called FYROM. I've never kept up with his Macedonia policy (there are enough excruciating problems in America, right now, as you may well know).

All I can conclude is that Obama was probably advised that alienating the Greek community would be bad for his chances, because they are more populous in America, and in turn supported them. So, he probably personally supports Macedonia. But his chances would have been against him in the election. I'll be honest and say that I am a Democrat, and that I voted for him, somewhat proudly. I am ecstatic that, come 1/20/2009, there will be a half-black/half-white man in office, who represents the union of color himself. My family is very much made up of blue-collar people, and he is for the middle-class laborers.

But personally, I would support Macedonia. To desire to take something away like that is the epitome of selfishness. Greece shouldn't be hoarding history like that. It's ridiculous.

Don't they have enough statues? =/

Anyways. Wow. I wrote a lot.

Take care, and please don't think I am crazy. Hehe.

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-09 11:16:54 +0000 UTC]

Think you are crazy! I think I love you even more now!!!!!! Yes, it was a long post, but worth reading it totally...
your views are far more developed and serious than I ever thought it possible... I respect you much more now! Don't think you are crazy, nor that you bother me... I love speaking to you and PLEASE add me as a friend... if you have MSN messenger, pls add me there too... my msn is trj_neno@hotmail.com

Your views are very realistic and personal, I totally agree with you, yet I'm even more jacked-up... your thoughts are mild in comparison to mine, so if you are going to the loony-bin imagine where am I going... If I lived in Louisiana or something they would probably crucify me on the square, write Satan worshiper and Anarchist on my belly, hit me with eggs and torch me!
Anyway, I do not support God-existence in any possible imaginable way... no, God does not exist and that's final for me, because the logic laws scream GOD IS DEAD!
Evolution and natural law is the only ever existent - we are born, we eat, we run, we sleep, we make babies, we die... evolution is a misconception between people because they don't understand it completely - it's not a traced progress, it's just elimination of the races... when a unit suddenly changes part of is body through DNA modification error, he created a new specie... that new specie will pass its new DNA forward if the mistake helps it survive and in that way a new race is created... here is an example - in the deep water a specie of fishes live... they have grey skin and no eyes... they have natural predators in bigger fish. One day, during a reproduction, the DNA molecule of a spermatozoid suddenly makes a mistake in copying and adds to the whole body a new light-sensitive cell... the new fish is born with a light-sensitive cell on it's head... the cell will help it survive in the waters, because it will be able to see the predators and swim away fast... that fish will survive and pass it's new gen on and on creating a new specie of fishes with sensitive cells... on the other side of the sea, one of the same kind of fish suddenly spurts a lighter color of skin... it will be more easy to decipher inside the ocean and the predators will find it more easily and eat it... that new specie of fish with lighter skin will be annihilated soon… leaving the new specie with light sensitive cell to live on in a new evolution stage… that’s how evolution works through the ages, that’s how we evolved from a single-celled organisms into something complex like this… ERRORS!
I know it’s very very hard to swallow but that’s the only ever possible solution that is both logical and able… so, evolution does not need time like some people say, it needs death!
You see… evolution is just a process of thinning out and bolding out of the specie units… there is another example – a specie of black-color-winged butterflies that live on white trees has a natural predator in a specie of birds… one day a butterfly mistakes it’s gen and evolves a white color of wings… now it’s easy to conceal on the white bark and the birds won’t see it and eat it, because it will survive more easily it will reproduce and give forth it’s new color… in a few years, ALMOST all the black winged butterflies will die out and the white winged will survive… but through pollution the bark of the trees gets dirty and black, and now the black wings are more useful again… in a period of time, the black wings will get back in shape and number because it’s easier for them to survive… you see… death is needed, not time… we can evolve in a matter of months if needed, only is every one else dies out, but that isn’t happening because today people are protected by laws, ethics and love, so death of a natural cause is just a myth between us, so all will pass on their bad or good genes and the race will no longer evolve… human race is not evolving centuries back!!!!!
Nature created animals just like he wanted them to be – they are perfect machines with no reason… they kill to eat, so how can one say it’s bad to kill if nature sets all into the law of the fittest… Nature = God, so God says we should steal, kill and lie to survive… that’s why the bible is bullshit, and those 10 commandments are just a populist crap that the church thought of!
I know this is very extreme, and pls don’t think I’m a Satanist, but I want the truth now matter how awful and gruesome it is! That’s what philosophy is all about!

Yes even though I don’t live in America, I’m also a democrat, and I like the concept of helping the most needy – the rich already have enough, they don’t need help… and even though he’s bad for our country politics, I’d vote for Obama!

Thank you for taking the time to speak to me, I like our conversations very much… think about what I’ve said here, and if there is anything you don’t understand, don’t hesitate to write… I’ll explain it all again.
Take care

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-09 19:56:24 +0000 UTC]

YAAAAAAY! You don't think I am crazy. WOOHOOOOOOO! Lol...

I respect you, too. You sound very smart. ^^ Which is very appealing. Unfortunately, I don't have MSN messenger. I DO have Yahoo messenger. My SN is jodilane2000 if you have it. Maybe I'll look into DLing MSN. It just takes a while.

I'm glad you think my views are realistic. That makes me so happy! FINALLY someone I can talk to who doesn't take me for a freaking joke! I am so happy! I'm grinning at my computer, right now. LOL. I must look stupid.

As far as Louisiana is concerned...well, I know New Orleans is like, the most corrupt crazy city on Earth, so they wouldn't crucify you there. But maybe some of those little southern self-righteous churches would, haha! You're safe with me, though, I wouldn't crucify you. And throwing eggs at you would just be wasteful. ^^

I have to say that I don't agree with your God views. But nothing against you. Please don't misunderstand me. I like talking faith and nature, it's all fascinating. Personally, I think atheism is a bigger leap of faith than theism. When you think about God, there are only two possible explanations. Either He exists, or He doesn't. Pretty simple. There is no 'half-way point,' no happy medium. Whether you’re an atheist or whether you’re a theist, there’s a certain level of knowledge, and there’s a certain level of faith. In my religious/moral/philosophical experience, God’s been proven to me, I couldn't put it simpler. Yet I know you haven't walked the same road through life that I have. But when you say that "scientifically," God can not be proven, well...I can't help but contradict that. There IS a scientific approach!

One may not be able to prove God through mathematical formula, or quantum physics. I will agree with that. But to say that we live in a world that in no way points to intelligent design...that's just flat-out selfish and negligent. Look at space, massive cosmos. Look at the positioning of the Earth, the EXACT correct depth of our atmosphere (no other planet could sustain life!). Look at the laws of nature, the massive code that makes up our DNA at the very instant of conception. Consider the world of extra-dimensionality. Thumb through the nature of your conscience, subconscious, your convictions concerning morality, and things you believe in. Then, try to reconcile all of these realities with a basic theory of randomness and chaos. Looking at all of that, how can one presuppose a purely naturalistic world, refusing the possibility of unseen evidence? There are so many unseen things that point to intelligent design. I will list a few of the reasons God is scientifically proven to me.

Causation- God provides the best explanation for the existence of the universe/outer space and all that's in it. (The alternative theory is that "nothing" exploded and resulted in everything that we see. Life canNOT form from non-life! It's a scientific fact.)

Order- God provides the best explanation for abstract notions such as numbers, mathematical formula, chemical-based process, and natural laws. (The alternative theory is that the chaotic first elements ordered themselves into complex information systems. Non-intelligent elements forming themselves into their own complexities? Scientifically impossible.)

Design-God provides the best explanation for the absolute complexity essential in planetary, chemical and biological systems. (The alternative theory is that random chance engineered apparent design, scientifically impossible. You can‘t have reaction without an action.)

Encoded Instructions- God provides the best explanation for the digital DNA code contained in and controlling the functions of all life on earth. (The alternative theory is that complex code, i.e. binary code running computers, can pop into existence without any kind of programming, testing and debugging process. Scientifically impossible.)

Irreducible Complexity- God provides the best explanation for fully functioning biological organisms, systems, and subsystems that couldn’t come about through gradual evolutionary process without totally ceasing to exist at lower, evolutionary levels. (The alternative theory is that biological systems took huge, unseen leaps from simple to complex without any guided process or forward-looking instructions.)

Duality- God provides the best explanation for the separate human functions of brain and conscience (matter and mind, body and soul). (The alternative theory is monism -- only matter exists and the human brain only appears to have a separate subconscious ability.)

Morality- God provides the best explanation for the existence of love, emotion, selfless-ness, and essential moral/ethical values throughout the world. (The alternative theory is that unguided materialistic processes evolved higher human consciousness. Scientifically impossible.)

So, even after listing that, I still want to stress that I DO believe in evolution, to certain degrees. I DO agree with your butterfly examples, you're absolutely right! ^^ I agree with the whole DNA modification thing. I agree with how death is the important role, or "survival of the fittest." ALL of that is entirely relevant. To deny that would be downright stupid, if you ask me. I just don't and will never believe that God doesn't exist. Maybe if He would could down and tell me Himself that He didn‘t exist, I wouldn't believe anymore. ^_~

“God says we should steal, kill and lie to survive…”

You think that God says we should steal, kill, and lie? =O Are you admitting God is out there, somewhere? Lol Nature says that nature should steal, kill, and lie. Let me ask you something…what sets humans apart from all other nature? It is our soul. We have a spirit. Having a spirit falls back on having the ability to make the difference of right and wrong, make moral decisions, having a mind. We can think for ourselves, make deep scientific, moral, logical, ethical decisions for ourselves. Animals and plants don’t have that capacity.

As for philosophy, all that is is a “set of beliefs or aims…that underlie your practice or conduct.” Uh-oh…there’s that word belief again. And what is believing? It is faith, or trust. Where does our faith come from? The best logical answer is...

God.

And I agree with you that the Bible can seem wrong. There are parts of the Bible that seem so irrelevant to today's day and age, I can see why one would want to toss it out the window, abandon any thought of it. Some people ask why we should heed a book written thousands of years ago, even if it IS the just word of God, penned down by men like us. The truth is, men make mistakes. We are imperfect, yet even with the mass of knowledge we have access to today, we are still helpless, still facing moral wrong-doing. The Bible is just a set of guidelines to help those who want to see God someday undo those wrongs.

Oh, don’t worry, I know you aren’t a Satanist. You're a naturalistic-nihilist. ^^

You would have voted for Obama?!?! Omg...I think I'm in love with you. _

And THANK YOU for taking the time to talk to ME. And I have thought about what you said. Now, it's your turn to think about what I have.

Btw...how on earth do you pronounce your name??

Peace and love!
-Jodi

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-10 21:37:41 +0000 UTC]

hahahaha... what a guiness post!!!
well, your views are extremely thought-thorugh and down-to-earth... you have overdone yourself yet again in my eyes!

there are some things that I disagree, but that is your point of view, it would be childish to try to change it by force... look, I say that what man calls God he acctually means Nature... and I believe in Nature... but, people have this annoying habbit to put conciousness in fornt of everyhting... no, I think consciousness is just another step in evolution, (and a missguided step at that) not the first form ever... Natural laws exist, yes, and they are the ONLY thing that explains the complexity of live and predetermination, the vastness of space and the perfection of DNA... but the imperfection in DNA is the only thing that got us from amoebas to these destructive machines today! gravity is one of those forces and those natural physical laws are the only thing responsible... that's that... so, when (and IF) I say God, I acctually mean Nature
morality is strictly and apsolutelly human, please don't involve "god" into it... morality is what we get into our consciouss through the process of socialization, the one thing that our parents teach us... again I will mention, animal, they are the perfect machines, servants of NAture and they do not have absolutely no morality... they survive... why would the natural laws be different for us against the animals when nature is equall to all... no, if animals do not have morality, neither should we... I'm not saying we should go out and kill anyone we want... we must NEVER forget that we are both a part of nature and society... and society had an agreement to pass the natural power of the fittest to one person (the social leader) so we won't kill each other... this way society remains since the day the first hordes... this is the gretest human invention... society!!!
there are natural laws and social laws, animals must respect only the former, we have to respect both... that's that...
as for love, it is an illusion, it's just a spirirtual atraction to a person which anyone can feel, and it was created in the process of evolution just to ensure sexuxal contact between to compatible units... just as orgasm (on the first sight, an unneeded surcomstance) came to be thorugh evolution just to ensure not loosing interest in sex... you see, everyhting in nature is desperately based on keeping us atracted to each other, to make babies... maybe there is something to this space-sense thing of your's
design, its just a result of gravity... atoms gravitate to each other, moleculs gravitate to each other... planets gravitate to each other! that's that... that's why everything is in the shape of a sphere... the spherical formation when trillions of atoms paste together...
as for monism... yes I agree... we are in a monistic world... litteraly... everything is built out of atoms, and atoms only differ in the number of electrons and protons... all of them are made form the same material - densed up energy... so, only energy exists!

hope I wasn't very hard... I respect your views very very much, I just don't agree with some of them...

don't try to pronounce my name, not even my peiople can sometimes... it's a serbian name... I'm serbian by father... if you must know, it's pronounced Neh-Mah-Nia (this NIA in the end it will be much easier to pronoince like the spanish pronounce their N with a curved title on the top sign... the Nj sound)... so Neh - Mah - N~a... call me Neno (Neh-No)
yes I would have voted for Obama even though he is pro-greek at the moment, I don't really care for our government's problems at this moment... they are ultra-nationalists and nationalists make me sick (no offense if you are one, but seeing you like barack, you proabaly aren't )... btw, we never hear about your government, only about your presidents... what party is the governing one at the moment there... the republicans?

wow, a long post, can't look it through at the moment for mistakes... srry if there are any!
take care... and please write

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-10 22:25:15 +0000 UTC]

Oh, no I don't take you as hard. In fact, the entire opposite. So don't worry! ^^ Like I said, I absolutely adore you, and I love talking to you.

I very much respect your views, but I think we can agree to disagree, as far as God is concerned. So, truce? hehe. You are very grounded in your belief, as am I. But know that you are a very intruiging person, you never cease to amaze me.

The main thing that stuck out to me is how you said love is an illusion.

Love is an illusion?

Omg. That's going to make me cry. =[
Love isn't an illusion! It's the most real thing we have the chance to possess! I believe in love very much. Love is what made me, love is what keeps me, love is what will have me. You really think love is unreal? Haven't you ever been in "true love" before? It's the most powerful thing...it can hold you up, it can come crashing down. It can't be predicted, pre-determined. Love is what holds families together, friends together. Yet love can be what starts wars. It's so colossal, so incredible! Anyways. Yeah. I'm a romantic. Meh.

So...

Nemanja. I honestly think that is the most beautiful name I have ever heard in my LIFE. It feels like air in my mouth when I speak it. It's so...right. Gosh, it's so beautiful. I googled it, and I found out that it means "Does not have." Is that right? Tell me, why did your parents name you a name like that? It's so sad, so...bitter, or something. =/

I have the most normal name...lol. Jodi. Boring. I only know that it means "praised Jewish woman," and it's VERY easy to spell. lol! I'm definitely not Jewish, though. I'm rather what you would call a mutt. I'm 2/3 Irish and 1/4 Native American.

Neno. That is so cute. I love it! It's nice to have something to call you now, Neno.

No, I'm not a nationalist. Hehe. The republicans (President Bush) have our government at the moment, but come 1/20/2009, Obama will be sworn in, and Democratic goverment will be ours. I'm so excited!!!!!!!! I can't wait to see what happens. ^^

And don't worry about your long posts. I have fallen in love with them. ^^

I OFFICIALLY LOVE YOU, NEMANJA.

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-12 10:17:33 +0000 UTC]

awww thank you so much sweety... I love you even more now ))
and thank you from the bottom of my heart for liking my name! Yes that's precisely what it means litteraly translated, but it's never taken for it's meaning... it's a very popular name nowadays in Serbia, and even though I live in Macedonia (next to Serbia) I have a Serbian blood in me... hahaha... my father is from Belgrade form Serbia, and my mom is from Macedonia, so... they gave me the name because it was popular and because it's the name of the first ever king-patriarch of Serbia... Stefan Nemanja the first-wed my brother is called Stefan for that same reason hehehe... I hope you pronounced it right because I don't really like my name that much, it sounds like someone is angry with me when they call be by my full name, I like people calling me Neno, it's easier and kinder heheheheh... it's stupid I know, but that's that

unfortunately yes, I don't believe in love because there is no naturalistic logic of it existing... I believe it's just an evolved form of "being attracted to..." just to make people come together more stable and with the man overrating the means of love, it has become a perfect way to sell lovey-dovey bears and treats, just as valentine is an orchestrated holiday... srry if I don't meet to your beliefs, but that's that...
"Love" you so much for understanding and respecting my beliefs... take care, and hope to hear from you much much more
kisses

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-12 20:46:59 +0000 UTC]

I "love" you, too, and you're welcome from the bottom of my heart!

You truly do have a beautiful name, and I'm sure I'm pronouncing it right. ^^ When you described the nja sounding like a Spanish accented n, that really helped out. I am teaching myself the Spanish language, so I think I have at least the last part of your name down pat. ^^ (Yay!) "Neh-mahn-ñah" It's Serbian!! That's so cool. I was thinking Slavic, or something. lol

What are your parent's names? And how do you pronounce them?

You're named after a KING! O_O OMG that is so amazing! ^^ Oooh, I like the name Stefan, too. Very manly and beoming. I still can't get over Nemanja, though. I swear, I've fallen in love with it! Did you know that I named one of my recent poems after you? You should go check it out. It's called, obviously, "Does Not Have." You were a muse! Hehe. A male muse. ^^

I like Nemanja better than Stefan. Neno isn't stupid, either. It's very endearing. Very sweet! ^^

I'm sad that you don't believe in love, but at least you believe in attraction. Hehe. Like I've said before, I respect your beliefs, and I know that they are very firm, as are mine. "Lovey-dovey bears and treats" LOL you are too funny!

So, now, when you say you officially love me...does that really mean you're officially attracted to me? LOL
I guess I should not be expecting any bears, flowers, or treats from you soon! (And that's okay, because I'm not so much girly to want stuff like that from a man. I'd rather have a walk in the park, or a night of stargazing. Or even just a held hand. ) I do believe in love, but I can't stand fairy-tales. They make me sick. They are so unrealisitic, and only happen in dreams. =/

Did you ever try to DL yahoo messenger? Let me know, and if not, I will try to DL MSN. ^^

Talk to you again, soon!
XO!
-Jodi

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-13 13:48:45 +0000 UTC]

hahahah thank you very much... and I was so increadibly touched that you wrote a poem inspired by me... I don't think I'm worthy...

My parents' names are Dragan (it means Dear or Sweet, it's pronounced Drah-Ghan, something like Dragon hehehehee) and my mom's name is Elena (it's pronounced Eh-Leh-Nah, and it's the equivalent of your Hellen)

yes, my name is serbian and serbs as a nation are slavic, just as the russians, macedonians, croatians, bosnians, slovenian, polish, slovakian, ukrainian...

well, I wouldn't call it sexual attraction because it is limited to physical view (don't get me wrong, I believe you are very attractive) but it is a spiritual attraction, yes, i like you very much as a person!

I agree with you on the fairy-tale concept, it is so tacky and childish... that's why my parents never told me that cinderella or snow-white crap when I was little, instead they told me mythological stroies, greek, romanian, egyptian myths... I'm with the mythology since I was born so I feel a special connection to it that will never diminish...

nope, srry I don't use any other messenger except the main windows live MSN... and please do send me a link to the poem, I would most definitaly like to read it.

thank you for all... hope to hear from you... kisses

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-14 04:47:05 +0000 UTC]

Aw, well, you were just the icing on the cake! ^^

Oh, I really like the name Dragan, that is SO awesome. VERY handsome name, indeed. It sounds like the British pronunciation of "Dragon." The empasis is on the first syllable, right?

Elena is used here in the States, I've heard it before. It's a very gorgeous name.

My Dad's name is Tony and my mom is Joann. Pretty common names, too, lol.

Oh, I hope you didn't misunderstand me when I said you were attracted to me. I was only kidding. Yeah, we definitely do have a connection, and it's an incredible thing. I'm so happy I ran into you on this website!!! I smile when I see a reply from you in my inbox. ^^

Yeah, fairytales gag me. I'll watch them with my niece, though, I admit. I watch them with her because she deserves to have dreams, especially at her young, tender age, and with the way the world is going. (She's 8! God, I love her so much.) Her name is Tamiyah (T'-MY-yah), which my sister made up. It turns out her name is Jewish, and means "Perfect God." You can imagine how much I love that, hehe. Do you have any nieces or nephews? I'm curious.

Lol wow, we need to get on messenger. Hehe. I'll go ahead and try to DL MSN, and hopefully we'll be able to chat on there soon.

YOU ARE AMAZING, AND I..."LOVE" YOU!

XO
-Jodi

PS: Here's the link to Does Not Have! [link] Hope you like it. Like I told you before, you were a bit of inspiration, and I am grateful to you. I don't know if it has any of the philosophical punch you wanted me to try, but I welcome any critique you may give.

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-14 11:02:25 +0000 UTC]

this is too much... I'm beyond not worthy... I cried like a little girl ... this is just so increadibly AMAZING... William Blake is nothing compared to this... just a tacky, old, romaticist fart... this is just so penetrating... god, you made my week...
THANK YOU, THANK YOU SOOO MUCH, FROM THE BOTTOM OF MY HEART, THANK YOU!!!!!

I officially love you!

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Masa-chan In reply to Sozokai [2008-11-14 18:48:34 +0000 UTC]

Oh, gosh, Nemanja. I don't know what to say, other than thank you...

I told you that I almost cried at your comment on the page of the poem itself. It was pretty astounding. I was really moved.

You are SO WELCOME from the bottom of my heart.
You inspired me! I couldn't help but giggle at your William Blake being "old, romanticist fart" comment. I will never be as good as the old romanticists, but thank you thank you thank you for at least comparing me to them!

I officially love you, too. ^^

Oh!!!! I have good news!!! I have MSN, now! My username is jodilane2000@yahoo.com, so add me!

Hope to talk to you again, soon!

-Jodi

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Masa-chan In reply to Masa-chan [2008-11-11 00:05:01 +0000 UTC]

I meant to say that I was 3/4 irish and 1/4 Native American.

You obviously can't have 2/3 and 1/4 together and have a whole. HAHAHA!

Gosh, I feel dumb.

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Sozokai In reply to Masa-chan [2008-10-31 13:24:13 +0000 UTC]

hmmm i wanted to discuss this poem far and wide for the readers but it would need time... tell me if you got the sense of it so i can explain you the metaphoric details... its an amazing nihilistic theory said in a simple metaphor... pls write a post like crazy explaining to the last detail what you got, and ill fill you in... its too hard for someone, it made my father angry that im writing so seclusive and metaphoric that it cant get to the people easy...

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