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Spearhafoc In reply to Libra1010 [2018-09-21 19:30:04 +0000 UTC]

He's an Adze; a type of vampire from Africa (specifically Ghana and Togo) that transforms into a firefly. 

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Libra1010 In reply to Spearhafoc [2018-09-22 17:29:49 +0000 UTC]

 Thank You most kindly for clarifying that! Honestly, a Vampire who transforms into a firefly might be MORE horrifying than one which transforms into a bat, at least - if only because people EXPECT the latter to be scary, while fireflies are the stuff of nostalgia for warm summer nights (making it all the more appalling when one of them suddenly turns into a Blood-Hungry and merciless monster).

 Having done a little more research, its interesting to note that the Adze might actually BE a spectacularly Evil firefly more than it is a person who turns into a horrifically bloodthirsty insect that isn't a mosquito - since it apparently POSSESSES certain individuals, while flying out at night to drink the blood of others.

 ...

 Makes you wonder if that blood-bug has actually decided to drain Mr Police Brutality dry or just wear him like a brand-new Leisure Suit! 

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Xlavok In reply to Libra1010 [2018-09-22 17:54:48 +0000 UTC]

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Libra1010 In reply to Xlavok [2018-09-22 18:29:36 +0000 UTC]

 I heartily disagree with the idea that Evil is purely subjective - History teaches us that morality is a moving target, but (along with the daily news & various court records) it also furnishes us with far too many examples of unquestionable Evil to accept that morality is purely a matter of current trends.

 One must admit that I DID rather resort to hyperbole when describing the Adze, but my intention was to describe the SPECIES and not the individual in question - who would appear to have a good deal of historic trauma underpinning his attack on the objectionable officer in question - and I will agree that not all Vampires in fiction are Evil, however threatening their powers and the nature of their Curse might be.

 Nevertheless, I WOULD like to point out that calling the Vordenburg Foundation purely Genocidal is a trifle unfair from what little we know of it so far; it's stated goals of achieving the Eradication of Vampirism could be achieved as easily by discovering a cure for that Metaphysical Disease as it could by hunting down & destroying every single Vampire (though I admit that we know too little about the Foundation to say anything with confidence about its methods, beyond the fact that it makes preying on Humanity that much more dangerous for the average Vampire). 

 (One would also like to suggest that the very existence of the term "Genocide" rather undermines your argument that all Evil is purely subjective).

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Xlavok In reply to Libra1010 [2018-09-22 18:46:02 +0000 UTC]

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Libra1010 In reply to Xlavok [2018-09-22 19:49:02 +0000 UTC]

 I shall keep that in mind, though one would argue a Curse is still a Curse, even if it seems less a Bane to the Vampire than their victims; I would also like to note that Evil is still Evil when those who commit it refuse to acknowledge it (and I fear we must differ in our opinions of the subjectivity of Evil), perhaps ESPECIALLY when they refuse to acknowledge it to themselves or to others. 
 
 Also "Eradication" means outright destruction in mass extinction levels hence genocidal.
 Not necessarily - "Eradication" is also used in the context of eliminating a disease (such as in the case of Smallpox), which isn't quite the same thing, although from the context you may be quoting the Author (in which case I'll need to eat my words quite shortly, possibly with a small helping of crow to help the medicine go down).  

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Xlavok In reply to Libra1010 [2018-09-22 20:04:17 +0000 UTC]

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Libra1010 In reply to Xlavok [2018-09-22 21:32:51 +0000 UTC]

 In all fairness hoping to discover a cure for autism - especially for the more aggravated forms of that condition, which severely impact quality of life - is not an inherently corrupt and inhuman object; if "cure" were being used as a euphemism for "sterilise" or "exterminate like a plague rat" then it certainly would be, but trying to create a treatment that will allow the autistic to better function in society (in the same way medication allows those suffering from schizophrenia or bipolar disorder to better cope with their own conditions) is a genuinely philanthropic goal.

  The desire to offer a cure for Vampirism is also a worthy one, IF that cure gives Vampires a chance to become Human once more - and to remain Human - rather than an immediate death, although it certainly conveys no right to FORCE the cure on anyone (especially those Vampires who function without preying on Humanity).

Also I think you're forgetting the fact the Volderberg Foundation are basically fanatics that hate vampires as a rule and this what Philip also told me too but I'm not so sure I'm supposed to divulge this information just yet though but once you put two and two together, they are genocidal in the end as they obviously are. I will defer to your closer relationship with The Author - I am, after all, a very new arrival in the APEX SOCIETY setting - but I will also reserve the right to draw my own conclusions based on the story as it plays out. I would also like to point out that if the Vordenburg Foundation are anti-vampire zealots then the likes of Count Dracula, Graf Orlok, Lord Ruthven and even Countess Carmilla have given them & their predecessors ample reason to Hate Vampires.

 Think of all the bloodless corpses, think of the inhuman powers wielded against "mere" mortals, think of the unending nature of a Vampire's depredations, think of the dehumanising nature of those powers and consider how many victims have therefore gone the way of that poor Transylvanian woman in DRACULA - whose child is stolen by the Count to feed to his "Brides" and who is then torn to pieces by mind-controlled wolves for daring to protest that injustice to the Count in person.

 SOMEBODY needs to stand up against those who commit such crimes and give such victims Justice - unfortunately, as with policemen when they are obliged to deal with Murderers & Rapists & sundry unpleasant criminals, being obliged to observe the very Worst of a type rather sours one's attitude towards those who share that type (whether Human or Vampire). On the other hand this doesn't give the Foundation a right to exterminate an entire species, but Mankind DOES have a right to defend itself against the most predatory examples of the type and the Vordenburg Foundation would appear to be leading that Defence.


 Also you're treating Evil like it's a objective thing even though it doesn't exist at all only except you're moralizing defining what's "Evil" and what isn't despite ulterior motives behind it. To say that Evil is sometimes subjective is reasonable; to say that it DOES NOT EXIST is delusional - Evil is by no means simple, but it is very Real and to deny that is to ignore the Worst in Humanity to a highly dangerous degree.


 Define what is a "curse" and what isn't because it's a manner of perspective but it seems you have a fixed view of what vampirism is vs what many variations of what it could be because seems to me you're one of people who actually *wants* vampires to be all irredeemably "evil" which is actually quite boring actually (like I have seen enough of this attitude towards vampires in the DnD community and hell even White Wolf's VtM's community holds this similar opinion as well judging from personal experience.) Strictly speaking I do not want ALL Vampires to be Evil, I want it to be understood that even Vampires who don't actively seek to harm others are potentially dangerous - in something like the way a person who owns a gun is not necessarily Evil, but IS potentially dangerous. This is complicated by the fact that, unlike a gun owner, the powers of a Vampire are intrinsic and all too often contingent on Human Suffering (whether through the physical symptoms of blood loss or because a vampire kills to cover its tracks or because they seek to enhance their power through Human Sacrifice or simply exploits it to impose their will on the population).

 Quite frankly, in any setting where they exist, I want Humanity to be fully capable of defending itself against Vampires - and fully capable of holding the Undead to account when the latter attempt to impose themselves on "mere" Mortals, in the same way that the Blackmailing Mobster or the Serial Killer are held to account when they attempt to impose themselves on the Population.


 As for defining "Curse" my definition is simple - it is a condition or a working, most often Supernatural, that inflicts suffering either on the subject or those whom that subject targets (especially when that condition or working conveys nothing of benefit to Humanity). Vampirism is a Curse - at least in its most classic depiction, because it is a condition that obliges the subject to maintain immortality and supernatural power through the suffering of others (as noted above).

 Immortality, it should be noted, is not inherently a curse - although it is generally either Fictional or posthumous - but a form of Immortality based on becoming a bloodsucking parasite for as long as you live generally counts as one in my book (especially if the parasite MUST kill those whom they feed on).


 By the way please allow me to conclude, Xlavok, by thanking you for your patience in debate and for your courtesy - I suspect our Admiration for the Apex Society will remain mutual for a long time to come and also Hope that our conversations will remain civil rather than insufferable! 

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