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Spider-Bat700 β Mass Effect Expanded Alignment Chart
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Published: 2018-04-13 01:33:52 +0000 UTC; Views: 3723; Favourites: 6; Downloads: 1
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To be honest, I almost never use the expanded D&D Alignment System. Reason being that, I often don't think there are enough characters who could legitimately be said to be in-between the main nine alignments to justify having the expanded system. But, a series with as many characters and as much moral complexity and variety as Mass Effect is an exception to the rule, so here is my expanded alignment chart for that beloved franchise:Lawful Good: Paragon Commander Shepard
Social Good: Tali'zorah
Neutral Good: Kelly Chambers
Rebel Good: Garrus Vakarian (since he's NG in ME 1 and 3, but CG in ME 2)
Chaotic Good: Jacob Taylor (and for my money, the only main ME character who is consistently Chaotic Good throughout the trilogy, unless you choose to play Shepard this way).
Lawful Moral: Samara
Neutral Moral Mordin Solus
Chaotic Moral: Kasumi Goto
Lawful Neutral: Miranda Lawson (pre-Cerberus defection)
Social Neutral: Veetor
True Neutral: Feron
Rebel Neutral: Urdnot Wrex (Pre-ME 2)
Chaotic Neutral: Grunt
Lawful Impure: Aria T'Loak
Neutral Impure: Harkin/"Fade"
Chaotic Impure: Javik (Pre-Character Development)
Lawful Evil: The Illusive Man
Social Evil: The Shadow Broker
Neutral Evil: Maya Brooks
Rebel Evil: Zaeed Massani
Chaotic Evil: Renegade Commander Shepard
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Comments: 16
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Think you can provide a brief description on the ones that weren't mention on the Alignment System?
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Eh, too much work and I'm lazy.
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What about Samara's stance on Lawful Moral and Aria's Lawful Impure?
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I could explain my reasoning behind those specifically, yeah:
Aria because she's a somewhat ruthless crime boss who isn't afraid to get her hands dirty, but that as far as criminals/villains in the series go, she's pretty mellow and mild, and also helps Shepard and company regularly. So I figured a middle-ground between neutral and evil made sense.
Likewise, while Samara wants to and believes in protecting the innocent and going after unambiguous evils like Ardat-Yakshi, her ironclad adherence to her code (a code that does not allow for grayness and thus encourages extreme acts), makes her a bit more morally gray than other benevolent crusaders against evil (like Paragon Shepard), who are more capable of recognizing gray areas and reacting accordingly.Β
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And Tali's Social Good? I don't get it, though I do sort of understand Rebel Good after noticing Garrus in that category.
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Yes, because she's Neutral Good leaning towards Lawful based on her respect for the Quarian admirals and her willingness to obey their orders. In fact, she IS Lawful Good for the most part, except if she gets exiled from her people and is thus no longer beholden to their orders. So I made her Social Good to reflect how she's been LG and NG at different points.Β
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I saw this. I'm not that familiar with the expanded system, but I'll provideΒ some thoughts. The problem with Mass Effect is where to put Shepard. But as bad as a renegade Shepard can be, at the end I'm not sure Shepard is ever chaotic (or any other) evil. Regardless of how Shepard treats people, Shepard repeatedly puts themself in harms way for others. I lean heavily paragon, but my favorite way to play the Omega DLC is chaotic neutral. Sometimes I agree with Aria, sometimes I don't. At the end she will tell you your the most dangerous person she's ever known because she has no idea what you are going to do. Overall my Shepards are usually in the neutral good category.
I'm also disappointed you didn't put TIM on here. Saren might have been lawful evil before ME1. But in ME1 he's more neutral (he's rejecting the Council's authority). TIM I think is a better fit for that slot. Also, where would the Reapers/Leviathan AI go? They might be an even better fit for lawful evil than TIM is.
As for some other choices, I think Liara is a better chaoticΒ than Kasumi (based on Lair of the Shadow Broker; apart from that, she's a better chaotic good than Jacob). I don't think Zaeed is neutral about anything. He's a mercenary who cares little about rules (he comes around a bit when a guns in his face, but most of us would). I think Javik could fill the social impure slot. Tali's a better social good than Vega.
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1. Renegade Shepard commits species-wide genocide multiple times, betrays and murders party members, slaughters Zhu's Hope colonists because taking them out nonviolently was an inconvenience, has murdered other people, regularly shows a sadistic and homicidal nature, etc. All of that sounds pretty Chaotic Evil to me.
2. Yeah, I really considered having TIM for Lawful Evil, but I wanted to include Saren. You have a point that in the books he could be more Social Evil or Neutral Evil.
3. Reapers and Leviathans are both as Lawful Evil as you can get, but I wanted a single character like TIM or Saren.
4. Liara is only Chaotic Good in ME 2 in my opinion and is otherwise NG. But I suppose I could replace Kelly with her (I sort of like Kelly though).
5. Jacob is Chaotic Good owing to his consistent cynicism regarding organized authority (also, as a member of Cerberus he is technically a heroic terrorist).
6. I see Zaeed as NE because he's a mercenary motivated by either greed or revenge, not random cruelty, which he actually seems to stay away from and look down on.
7. Yeah, Tali is the better choice than James, but I feel like James is also a good choice.
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The only species I can think of that Shepard wipes out is the Rachni. A case can be made for that decision (in fact, if you choose otherwise, almost everyone questions you not destroying them).Β Oh, and there's the Collectors who die whether you're paragon or renegade (same with the Batarians). So if those are the examples, paragon Shepard shouldn't be lawful good. I will grant that in ME1 renegade Shepard is a lot closer to chaotic evil, but Bioware tames down the behavior in ME2 and even more so in ME3. Plus, Jack killed people because she thought they were going to screw her over, admits to liking killing people, and crashed a ship into a moon, but she's just impure (you acknowledged this ranking being pre-character development).
As for Zaeed, if the way he treated the Batarian at the start of ME2 isn't random cruelty, I'm not sure what is. He could have brought the guy in without treating him the way he did. Plus, he's a mercenary. I assume Garrus being a mercenary is what moved him away from being lawful. I would expect it to do the same with Zaeed. I'm not talking a big shift, but at least Rebel impure.
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*Ahem* Krogans, Geth, and Quarians. In ME 3, he can condemn every last one of those species to extinction. Invoking the Batarians and Collectors is also a poor comparison in my opinion because the former was literally the only way to stop the Reapers, not gratuitous cruelty born out of hatred or bloodlust, and the latter were a race that couldn't be anything but mindlessly evil servants to Reapers. It's like comparing LotR heroes killing Orcs in bulk to what Darth Krayt does to the Mon Calamari in Star Wars: Legacy.
As to the idea that Renegade Shepard is "toned down" in ME 3 that's something I couldn't contest more; Renegade Shepard murders Mordin and/or Wrex, lets Samara kill herself and then murder her last daughter just for kicks, and (again), can condemn up to three sapient races to extinction.Β
As for Jack, it was mostly on the account of her tragic backstory and her evil being less well defined than Renegade Shepard's. In retrospect, I may make Javik the Chaotic Impure one though, because for what it's worth, I do agree with you that Jack is Chaotic Evil overall. I just think she's less CE than Renegade Shepard by way of being more sympathetic and with it being less clear just how bad the damage she's caused is.
Well, to be fair, Zaeed has a personal hatred of Batarians due to viewing them as terrorists (and incidentally, opposition to terrorism further contradicts the idea of Chaotic to me). As for Garrus, he became less of a mercenary and more a well-meaning vigilante, which to me isn't the same thing. I'd consider shifting Zaeed to Rebel Impure, but I left those four blank because I feel like not enough characters in a given franchise fit those to justify acknowledging their existence.Β
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Taking out the Krogan, like taking out the Rachni, might be the right choice if you were consistent at being Renegade (Wrex is dead). Especially if Eve doesn't survive as well. Also, you'll have to show me where you can take out both the Geth and Quarians. A consistent Renegade will take out the Geth as I recall. I don't recall any way to kill both off (unless you're counting choosing the destroy ending, which to me falls into the Batarian/Collector category). I'm not arguing Renegade is a nice guy; he might even be evil, but chaotic evil (think of the classic chaotic evil - The Joker) wouldn't do the good things a Renegade Shepard does.
As for Zaeed, if you see Garrus (vigilante - who would also be opposed to terrorism) as being better than Zaeed (mercenary), then it doesn't make sense for Zaeed to be to the left of Garrus on the lawful/chaotic scale.
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It depends, I think. Concerning the Krogan, it depends on whether or not Wrex and Eve are alive. Because if they are, and Renegade Shepard betrays them and Mordin (which a Pure Renegade might do, if they intimidated Wrex into standing down in 1), then it's pretty hard to justify to me.Β
Yes, I was thinking of siding with Geth over Quarians in 3 only to then wipe out the Geth at the end. Either way, enough Renegade points and you can Intimidate the two sides into standing down, at which point letting one wipe the other out is (again), indefensible to me.Β
Again, it depends. But I personally think Renegade Shepard is CE, and while capable of some good deeds here and there, the evil still outweighs the good to me (as characters like Two-Face and Harley are CE, but have still had moments of goodness here and there).
As for Garrus/Zaeed, it's true that a vigilante would be opposed to terrorism, but on a moral basis and less of a legal one, if that makes any sense. Basically, I see Garrus opposing something like terrorism from a Good Vs. Evil angle, whereas a cold-blooded and ruthless but strictly speaking professional merc like Zaeed would oppose it from either Even Evil Has Standards or a Neutral (professional hitman) Vs. Chaotic (aberrant and erratic) angle. At least, that was my reasoning.Β
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I'm a destroy only player. I don't buy the Indoctrination Theory as a player, but I don't see how a Shepard can trust what the catalyst says. Maybe I could control the Reapers, or maybe the Catalyst just wants me to kill myself. Even if he's right, how long can I control them? Will I eventually make the same choices the Catalyst made? This is the AI that thought the Reapers were a good idea. Therefore, it's not infallible. Again, as a player, I may know how things work out with the other choice, but my Shepard doesn't. So I can't hold making a destroy choice against Shepard (I do it as a paragon all the time).
Maybe renegade Shepard is evil, but I don't think he's chaotic evil. But I could be wrong.
I see what your saying with Zaeed. I would still tend to disagree. Thane, prior to reforming, would fit your description better in my opinion. The problem with Thane is he's on a journey attempting to change positions on the chart. But the way Zaeed behaves in his loyalty mission is not neutral to me. He acts without regard to Shepard's wishes, who is the only authority figure/law he has at the time. Shepard even says he should knock Zaeed out when Zaeed sets the facility on fire. That's the angle I'm coming from on Zaeed.
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Fair enough.
Also, just updated it so that TIM is LE instead of Saren. I still say both fit it perfectly though (at least in the games proper, but even in the novels Saren is a corrupt authority figure who uses his authority for evil ends and abuses his power).
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@PsiDeschain
Thoughts? I'd like to have an intelligent Mass Effect's appraisal of this.
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