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#lgbt #stamp #transphobia #terf #transphobic #lesbophobia
Published: 2017-09-16 10:39:44 +0000 UTC; Views: 15421; Favourites: 337; Downloads: 1
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Oh boy tumblr, oh how I hate you.
So I got into an argument with radical feminists, specifically terfs. And I do mean actual terfs, not whatever tumblr considers a terf.
They filled every requirement:
- Be a radical feminist
- Classify yourself as a classic or real lesbian
- When someone says most transgender people want bottom surgery, bring up one study from a magazine to get them
- Call trans women "Pretending to be female"
- Call trans women "Male to Trans"
- Be against people trying to define what a lesbian is, but call lesbians bisexual when they date a trans woman, even if she's fully transitioned
- Say that only a few transgender women can pass as women, most don't and some do but as you get closer to them their male-ness shows (despite if they have had; facial surgery, hair removal therapy, makeup, etc)
- As soon as you point out your not a lesbian they say "You're not a lesbian, I am so why don't you believe me???"
Also, the one I was arguing with had a post on her blog that went something like this "@ Everyone who identifies as lesbian and would date a trans women; its okay to be bisexual but its not okay to use the label of a different oppressed group to try to invade it". Like.
No.
Bisexuality is when you're attracted to both men and women. A woman who is only attracted to women but would date a trans women, pre op or not (but usually post op) is not bisexual.
Also apparently, saying its a preference to be a lesbian and not wanting to date a trans women isn't good enough anymore. You have to say its their sexuality and dating a trans women makes any women either straight or bisexual.
If anything, that's more homophobic/lesbophobic than saying lesbians can date trans women.
Makes you think.
Please do not use this piece if you are a;
Terf, Swerf, Ace Exclusionist, Transmed/Truscum, Nazi, (No)map, anti-anti etc, or intend to make fun of it
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Comments: 284
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Oh... Um...
This is a topic that I am still undecided about.
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my trans and gay friend was told by someone that he was bi because if he liked someone trans (ftm) they were “tEcHnIcAlLy” liking a girl
likee
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Don't scroll down into the comments there's a lot of transphobic fuckheads
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You saved me from a lot of aggression today. Bless you.
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A TERF said I was homophobic for saying a lesbian dating a transwoman is still a lesbian.
That's probably one of the most confusing accusations I have ever heard.
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I'm a dude attracted to and dating another dude who supports dudes dating dudes and chicks dating chicks
i'm sooooooooooooooo homophobic for supporting a chick dating another chick regardless of if one of them happened to be born with a dick
I'm sorry that you care so much about other people's relationships that you have to be transphobic in the process.
And when I'm saying a transwoman, I mean a transWOMAN. Not a guy who pretends to be a transwoman for attention or to get lesbians to date him. (Take someone like Blaire white for example. She is obviously a woman, regardless of whether or not she was born with a penis. She is attracted to strictly men, and is engaged to a man. She is a straight woman.) Lesbians, just like everyone else, are not required to date trans people, but if a lesbian happens to be attracted to a transwoman, she is still just as valid.
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It is if the transwoman is a man.
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I love how you say you're not a transphobe yet you clearly compare a transwoman to a man, yes theyre amab at birth but theyre a transMTF... theyre not a fucking man lol...
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One can compare anything to anything.
I'll compare pinepples to genocide right now.
Pineapples are a declicious fruit and genocide is really bad.
It doesn't mean they're similar.
I never said they were a man AFTER they transitioned.
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Yes but it makes a difference when its blatantly offensive/transphobic/hurtful, ect.
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Well it's good I wasn't any of those things.
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You kinda were but okay.
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What's offensive about it?
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You were being blatantly transphobic? Which is offensive to trans people including myself lmao ????
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What did I say that was transphobic and what was transphobic about it?
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"It is if the transwoman is a man." literally you're saying a transwoman, is still a man. that is not the fucking case.
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doesnt matter lmao a transwoman cannot be a man because yknow, theyre a transWOMAN, you dont fuckin call a transman a girl do you? or are you that transphobic lmao
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It's not transphobic to call a man a man and a woman a woman.
Transwoman doesn't mean that they are a woman. Only that that's how they identify.
Take for example Christian "science", Economic "liberalism" and the Star "fish".
When you use the word "transphobic" too liberally you dilute it.
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oohhhhh my god are you actually dumb? I never said its transphobic to call a CIS MAN OR CIS WOMAN transphobic, because GUESS WHAT? Theyre not transgender.
whereas it IS transphobic to not respect that if a 'man' is a transWOMAN to call them a woman + she/her pronouns
also those examples literally have nothing to do with the conversation but go off i guess!
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That's not the point being challenged, we're not talking about ciswomen but transwomen.
Why is it transphobic? It's a little discourteous but when you are a man (as all pre-everything transwomen are) the correct pronouns are male pronouns. But pronouns aren't important anyway so it's not big deal to just be diplomatic and use the preffetered pronouns.
They explain how a name doesn't prove anything.
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You're joking right? Man you legit have to be a troll you cant be this fucking stupid.
As a fucking pre-op trans man would you call me a fucking woman? No you wouldnt because that'd be transphobic as fuck, do you know how much dysphoria that could fucking cause me? I go through enough of that shit as it is.
Also pronouns are important because theyre fucking gendered you absolute nitwit. Its also common courtesy to go by peoples pronouns, if you dont do that you're legitimately an asshole and you should probably go learn some fucking manners :/
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Am I stupid or am I ignorant or am I simply of a different opinion to you? Because there's a difference and I am not the one to resort to name calling.
Yes, I would. Not to you personally, because that would hurt your feelings and that isn't good. But that's what you are.
Why is it transphobic? I thought it was simply true. Man and woman denote a certain type of anatomy. They have in English for centuries.
I don't think dysphoria is caused by the words I use, it's the dysphoria that makes people want different pronouns.
How does them being gendered make them important? The Finish language has no natural gender and they're well enough. Unless you mean that they're gendered so they should reflect gender? Why though? Isn't the gendered nature of pronouns an echo from a more patriarchal time?
And I do use a person's prefered pronouns. They're not the right pronouns but why should I care? I'll still use them for diplomacy's ske.
Maybe more people would have manners to you if you didn't call them stupid before simply explaining your position and using a straw man fallacy.
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Christ! You really are ignorant! You cant see through your fucking ignorance to just see how transphobic your opinion really is!
Calling a pre-op transman a woman is blatantly transphobic because yes, it causes disphoria AND you calling them a woman clearly defeats the purpose of using their preferred pronouns? Legit thats misgendering them. And misgendering a person in some cases can set of ptsd from years of being purposefully misgendered by their parents, I know it would for me. So you purposefully doing that shit is fucking disgusting! Like yeah im AFAB but hell im not even a man! Im fucking trans non-binary/androgynous? Then what would you call me? Still a woman? Also fucking transphobic!
"But that's what you are." amazing, you assuming that im a woman is fantastic and makes me feel like shit! You should maybe rethink your opinion because of how hurtful it is towards the trans community bucko.
Also you dont think that dysphoria isnt cause by the words you used, but it is.
"Maybe more people would have manners to you if you didn't call them stupid" literally called you stupid because you're transphobic but you're too ignorant to see that lol
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What am I ignorant of? I am aware that within transgenerist ideology, the definition of "man" and "woman" are changed so that a transwoman is not a former man, but a woman who was simply "assigned male at birth". I'm simply using words with their proper definitions. I never said anyone shouldn't do something.
WHY IS IT TRANSPHOBIC!? That's what I want to know...surely if it's true it's not prejudice?
I'm just telling the truth, buddy...I'm not saying it out right because I don't want to offend people who don't offend me but if you put me under pressure and want the truth I am not going to say that a man is any less of a man just because she identifies as a woman.
I think it's a bit hyperbolic to suggest anyone has ptsd from being misgendered. It's churlish but it's not traumatizing, especially if it's not done maliciously.
And the issues with not giving someone their preferred pronouns has been acknowledged as not the point being challenged here. I did not knowingly use the non-prefered pronouns and will not. So I'm not sure what your issue is.
You expect me to take you more seriously because you're a non-binary/androgynous? Who cares that you're that? Why do you care? Why does it matter to you that I know or care? What difference does it make?
Well you might still be a woman yes. I don't know you but whether one is a woman or not has nothing to do with gender. It's a sex.
What's transphobic about it? You're not even trying to make a case.
I didn't assume you were a woman. I just told you that if you meet the established criteria to be a woman you're a woman. Maybe you're a man maybe you're a woman. I don't know. These words have been around for a while, it's bizarre to just change the meaning of them.
My first loyalty is to truth rather than transgenderists. It's not like I would even express these opinions without being pushed.
I don't claim to be a neutologist, I don't know gender dysphiria.
Well you're yet to make a case for how I'm transphobic. I though transphobic was fear or prejudice to transgender or transexual individuals but it seems I was wrong.
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god also i just realized we live in the same country, you absolutely better not call me a fucking woman if i ever meet you or so help me god you will regret it :^)
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god you really are ignorant huh, i legitimately cant even be bothered to respond because you are just the worst my dude.
Actually yknow what. "I didn't assume you were a woman. I just told you that if you meet the established criteria to be a woman you're a woman." I'm not a woman, just cause i have tits and a vagina does not make me a fucking woman, yes im afab, no im not a woman. Im a fucking transman you piece of shit!
Legit if you dont know how saying a transman or transwoman is their assigned gender at birth is transphobic then man you. you really are wild.
anyway yeah i cba to respond anymore so bye lmao.
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Thanks for admitting you're a transphobe.
Now deactivate your new account which you've only created to troll.
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How am I a transphobe?
I have no issue with transgender people
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Yes, trans people are still their original gender! Trans men are men and trans women are women!! They transition their bodies to their actual gender! Oh you meant chromozones and genitals (sex) as gender instead of sex patterns in the human brain (what gender actually is).
Yes, trans people cannot change their chromozones. Transgender men are biological females according to their chromozones and genitals, however the sex of their brain/gender is male which makes them men. Transgender women are biological males according to their chromozones and genitals, however the sex of their brain/gender is female which makes them women.
Gender dysphoria is caused by the sex patterns in one's brain not matching the sex of their body, as sex patterns in one's brain can make a mind-map of what the body should look like. If what the mind thinks the body should be and what the body actually is do not match, it causes uncomfortableness to distress
Its not caused by chemical imbalances post-birth and surgieries help to alliviate gender dysphoria. The reason the suicide rate can be so high may be due to surgery complications, inability to join sports team when they start to transition, a higher risk of being denied housing or work, rejection from the community, rejection from family and more. Maybe it's because society outcasts them as freaks and often deny them medical attention they need that makes them feel alienated and alone. Thats just me, a trans guy, though.
Also lesbophobic was made to focus on homophobia that is directly towards lesbians.
If you want to know more about the actual science behind being trans, here's a video with scientific research linked in the description
- www.youtube.com/watch?v=MitqjS…
Maybe people calling you a "bigot and shit for stating facts", are calling you that because a lot of your "fact" is literally just your opinion. There is plenty to show that transgender women have similar sex patterns in their brain to cisgender women, and vise versa for trangender men and cisgender men. There are links to some in the description of the video I linked you.
But then again, you called me an "NPC SJW" on my main account, accused me of saying gender is a social construct (I never did), accused me of saying that genderfluidity is real (I never did), misgendered me multiple times, said that your facts "triggered me" which is funny considering I have an anxiety disorder and trauma that can ACTUALLY trigger mental breakdowns, accused me of mixing up gender with a personality trait (I never did), said you weren't gonna let me "bully you" into respecting people, accused me of "denying reality" (I never did), and you called me a coward for blocking you after saying multiple times I don't want to interect with you due to you being very disrespectful to my friend.
So if you're just gonna keep misgender trans people on purpose despite it being disrespectful because of your person opinion, there is not point on even argueing back. You have already showed to me that you are not respectful to transgender people if they disagree with you even slightly
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Just block the troll. He's not worthy of your time.
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Its not just a youtube video, as I said in the original comment, it has the links to each scientific study behind the video in the description. But because you can't even do that yourself. Here's the links to each one.
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK…
- www.encyclopedia.com/science/e…
- academic.oup.com/endo/article/…
- www.cam.ac.uk/research/news/ma…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic…
- emedicine.medscape.com/article…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/74…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/artic…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17…
- www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23…
- williamsinstitute.law.ucla.edu…
- globalnews.ca/news/3648571/tra…
- www.apa.org/topics/lgbt/transg…
- www.bu.edu/research/articles/l…
- www.newscientist.com/article/d…
- www.theatlantic.com/science/ar…
- www.reuters.com/article/us-usa…
This won't all make sense if you don't watch the video though, because it goes in order of how the video goes. If you still think this disagrees with "fact", show me an unbiased article for each of these sources that disproves them.
Right now that thats out of the way. Gender dysphoria is caused by the sex patterns in the brain not matching the sex of the body, surguries actually do alliviate dysphoria of those who suffer from it, and it can be seen in many articles, autobiographies through text posts and video and more. Though it may not be the right thing for everyone, a ton of people benefit from it and their life's are made better by it.
"transgender surgery was first done by a pedophile who took a botched penis surgery on a boy and decided to turn them into a girl".......actually you're wrong. Its not my opinion, your factually wrong. We all know you are talking about the David Reimer case, which though hoffic and abusive, was no the first "transgender surgery done". One of first ones was in 1930 in Germany, however the transgender woman who recieved it 3 months after probably from complications. Christine Jorgensen who recieved her sex resignment surgery in 1952 in Denmark. Be aware, David Reimer was born in 1965 over 30 years after the first sex resignment surgeries (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_reas… ) (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lili_Elb… )
In America, sex resignment surgery only became a thing in the 60s and yes typically with children, however David Reimer was the not the first and wasn't the only one affected by this. Many intersex children has their genitals mutilated at the time and were forced to live as girls/women to also be apart of the man's cruel experiement. Older trans people even said that when they went there to get sex reasignment surgeries at the time, it was all very sexualised and that they did not like how "experimental" the whole surgery was aparently going to be. Though it may have started the whole sex resignment surgeries in America, many people do not like John Money or his ideas as they have hurt so many people in the long run. (www.jhunewsletter.com/article/… )
It's literally used for homophobic that is specifically faced by lesbians, no need to get so angry over it. Also [citation needed] as I have never once said that "queer" is a gender and I have said mnay times that queer is a slur.
You are still calling anyone who doesn't agree with you "snowflakes" in 2019 and are still claiming you are saying facts, including things that I have disproved and I will continue to disprove. You are literally no better than any "sjw" that shouts insults and blinding thinks their opinions are facts.
"Cis doesn't exist and its not a gender neither is trans. " No one is saying "cis" or "trans" are genders. The words Cisgender and Transgender are not genders, they are simply describing the way the person was born/the difference between a trans man and a cis man.
"Hell you idiots invented CIS to mean "comfortable in skin"" Uh no we didn't - "From the Latin preposition cis(“on this side of”)." "The earliest known gender-related use of the prefix in any language was in a 1914 German-language book on sexology" - (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cis- " Cisgender simply means that the sex patterns in your brain match the sex of your body and thus you'd "stay on this side of gender"
"Gender studies classes are not science based, they are faith based and what you just told me is chemical imbalances, it doesn't mean they are the opposite gender. It just means they have a birth defect." [citation needed] to where I said anything about gender studies classes, let alone saying they were good. Are you trying to say that having different sex patterns in the brain is caused by chemical imbalances post-birth? Um thats just not how that works. The reason for someone having different sex patterns in their brains than the rest of their body has thought to be due to chemical/tesosterone and estrogen imbalances in the womb while the baby is developing, that can't be changed post-birth.
"Quit your fucking whining about how you are so oppressed and have anxiety and trauma you special snowflake. You use tumblr lingo and want to get victim points." [citation needed] show me where I said I was oppressed. Also, the whole point of mentioning my anxeity and truama was to try to get you to realise that you're using the word trigger/triggered wrong. Triggered doesn't mean some kid being whiney or annoyed on the internet. It literally means, from the original meme which was a psychology point of view: An event, experience or other stimulas that initiates a traumatic memory or action in a person. (en.wiktionary.org/wiki/trigger ). Also since when have anxiety and trauma just been "tumblr lingo" lmao, I'll tell my therapist that. Also, are you sure you're not the special snowflake who wants to get victim points considering you're making a huge fuss over some trans teen wanting basic human respect and still using a dead meme from 2016, instread of realising its a serious medical thing? Okay
"Gender identity is a communist thing to devalue people and categorise them into collective boxes you place them into with your ideology." [citation needed] show me where I said I like the term gender identity and where I even mention communision (which I don't support btw). Also, "my ideology"?? You mean trans people getting basic human respect?
"because you are too ignorant and stupid to understand how reality works because it doesn't fit into your delusional hugbox" [citation needed] Surprizingly, I do understand how the world works. I know that some people will just no respect trans people no matter how hard you try and there is nothing you can do to change that. You will have to hear other opinions that don't agree with your own and I support that. There will be people who hate you simply because of who you are and all you can do is to keep being yourself despite that. I also now know that people will judge and assume how you think because you're trans on the internet *wink wink*
"You attack and call people "transphobes" for stating facts and not calling people "xer", you people are literally Nazis." [citation needed] Show me where I have "attacked" people, seriously. I am anti-harassment. And another [citation needed] Where I said I believe in neopronouns and that people should always use them considering I've made a stamp critising the most popular one, and have said many times that I do not support them. Also jfc man, you must really want attention if you're calling all trans people nazis because of shitty people in the community
"Grow a brain and get medical help, you seriously need it." I mean, I think I have a brain. I mean I'm in school, able to type on a computer and am able to disprove some of the outright lies you are saying. Also, I am getting medical help to help with my gender dysphoria aka transitioning. When I had to live as a give, I was very depressed, had bad anxiety, self harmed, almost kms all that nice stuff. But now that I try to live as a boy as much as I am, I am so much happier and I feel as if life has a purpose and my next steps to truely be myself is T and surgery. I think my group of psychologists did well. Oh wait, I told a story about my mental health I must jsut be a special snowflake with no actual problems right?
"I am not gonna coddle your delusions and you are a coward for blocking people that tell the truth." Well considering that being delusional means I "believe things that aren't true", you're just plain wrong. I also don't have schizophrenia so even though thats not what you meant, you're wrong on that side too (dictionary.cambridge.org/dicti… ). Also [citation needed] to when I blocked people for telling the truth. Wait, you mean you? Thats just not what happened. I blocked you because you kept interacting with me even though I told you not to as you had been very disrespectful towards my friend and was not comfortable continuing a conversation with you.
"Gender dysphoria cannot be cured by surgery. It hasn't and never will be. Whats keeping you mentally ill people in check is people feeding your delusions with things you want to hear and denying reality because you don't want to face facts." Okay 1. Gender dysphoria, in most cases, cannot be fully treated or "cured", full stop. This is because that even when a trans person has "fully transitioned", they will still be reminded that they are trans while having to take their testosterone/estrogen, doctor's appointments and more. All we can do for now is simply allivate most of the dysphoria, which is done through medical transition aka hormones and surgeries. If you would like to prove to me that 100% of people who had sex resignment surgery did not feel any better after surgery. Also, feeding the delusions???? Oh, you mean basic human respect and not purposely setting of someone's mental health issue, got cha. Also, most trans people are not "denying reality because they don't want to face the facts". They know that they were born one sex and can never truely be the other sex in terms of chromozones and biological sex. However, that does not mean they can't also accept that the reason they are who they are is because the sex patterns in their brains is not the same as their biological sex. These are not mutually-exclusive beliefs.
"You would rather blame everyone else for not confirming your delusions than coming to terms that you are mentally ill and need help." [citation needed] Where have I blamed everyone else for not conforming to my "delusions" (which I've proved I don't have)?? Wait, you mean treating trans people with basic human respect for who they really are?? Dude, what. Also, yeah me and other trans people do have mental health issues and we do seek help. You know what helps a lot of us? Transitioning.
"I am not misgendering you snowflake, I am telling you the truth you don't want to admit is true. You're delusional and mentally ill, don't try to lecture me on reality when you reject it." The literal definition of misgendering is "Refer to (someone, especially a transgender person) using a word, especially a pronoun or form of address, that does not correctly reflect their gender". (en.oxforddictionaries.com/defi… ) Yes, this does include called a transgender man "missy" to disrespect him. I accept that I am biologically female and that I can't be biologically male on a chromozone and genital level, but this doesn't mean my brain cannot have male sex patterns, as I've explained before. There is literally nothing horrible that will happen to you for respecting a trans person for how they wish to be respected. I am a transgender man and I wish to be respected as a man. It really isn't that hard. Also, I just don't reject reality and I've agknowledged it many times in this comment.
"Next you'll be telling me the Earth is flat because science is transphobic." No, because I am a man of science. Science literally is on transgender people's side man, as I have shown in links above. I may be trans, but I'm not fucking braindead.
"Nobody owes you anything to call you a pronoun, misgendering isn't a hate crime, your feelings are not the law." [citation needed] Where I said it was a hate crime and said my feelings were the law. I hope you also just randomly decide to misgender cisgender men you meet and don't like, because they didn't do anything to deserve to have their pronouns respected. But you won't, you only do it to trans people. Respecting someone's pronouns and who they are, cisgender or transgender, is called basic human respect. You don't have to use somone's pronouns but it just makes you look like a dickhead.
"Get thicker skin and a real job thats not living off your parents and being so fucking sensitive." Bitch, my skin is thick af. I've been through so much shit, you really think I'm crying over some bored shit on the internet misgendering me? Hell no. But that won't stop me from calling out that you are disrespectful and that everyone, regardless of them being cis or trans, requires basic human respect unless they do something to truely not deserve it. Also, in what way do you think this is a job? I'm currently a student and I am planning to get a job, in fact, so yet another assumption
Also, I'm sensitive? You're the one throwing a huge fit over someone telling you to give trans people basic human respect.
Anytime I put [citation needed] is where you have just made up stuff that you think I believe, and I do not. Stop assuming every trans person is a hive mind
Everyone deserves basic human respect (unless they truely do not deserve it e.g. school shooter, mass murder etc). Its not your place to decide which group of people as a whole deserve basic human respect for things they can't control.
There's no good reason to continue this. The chances of you changing your mind is slim and not worth my time when I could be doing something productive
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A gay woman dating a trans woman is not bisexual because the man who wants to be a woman aka a trans woman, FEELS like a woman.
...or rather what he believes a woman feels like.
Makes as much sense as all other transgender things!
Aka none!
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this is a pretty old comment but if the 'male' was born into a male body, 'he' doesnt just feel female. 'he' has a female's brain. 'his' brain pulled something like a switch, 'he' pulled a female switch. 'he' is a she. so a lesbian dating a transwoman isnt bisexual.
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"Female brains" and "male brains" just look different.
And they can be found in both people who were born with testicles and people born with ovaries.
What is really going on is that people think that being male or female is how you act, not what reproductive organs you were born with.
And that is wrong!
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