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techgnotic — The Future of Storytelling Has Arrived
Published: 2012-04-03 08:08:22 +0000 UTC; Views: 682819; Favourites: 2160; Downloads: 0
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by techgnotic The recently announced changes to the core mythos of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and the backlash from fans over the ending to Mass Effect 3 have ignited an incredible discussion about the rapidly evolving “collaborative” relationship between producers and consumers of videogames, movies, and similar “products.” Now it’s exploded beyond the secure borders of top news publications, gaming and entertainment websites. Looks like this long-bubbling cauldron of traditional ways and means, modern tech, web economics, core beliefs and future shock has finally boiled over... The gaming industry, and gaming media, is wrong to label upset consumers as ‘entitled’ or ignore the They don't "owe" you anything. They make a product, and then you decide if you're going to pay for it. Since many of you think it's okay to download anything you want for free, even that second step isn't a guaranteed part of the process anymore. But it's a very simple transaction. They make. You consume. … Even so, you are not actually owed anything beyond whatever entertainment they produced for you in the first place. It’s the question roiling the genre arts sparked by the release of Mass Effect 3 and speculation about changes Michael Bay may make in his reboot of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Should a video game creator rework a game’s ending if enough fans are dissatisfied with the original? Should fans’ responses to rumors about projects-in-planning be a major consideration in the creation of those projects? In this article I contend that it’s not simply that the gaming and movie industries are mistaken to dismiss Let me make another important point. I’m always annoyed when the “they make – you consume” contenders try to moot or obviate the whole discussion of producers and consumers by referring to movies, games, songs, etc. as mere “entertainment”. When I eat a cheeseburger at Umami, ride a rollercoaster, or laugh at a joke in a late nght talk-show host monologue, But movies, videogames and music are different. We “invest” ourselves greatly in them. Ask any young fan who thrilled There is no such thing as a singular fan reaction. Art is an interpretive experience. What you read in Moby Dick, No person other than the artist can make his or her art. Art is the manifestation of one man or woman's vision for a In my personal experience, listening to the feedback of a rabid fanbase can be a double-edged sword. Say your film or TV show is But the flip-side is, ignoring the early adopters or original fans can be to your peril. Often, film and TV executives are far removed Personally, I think the best storytelling is the product of a strong, single voice. I think it's important for creators to listen to Author/Creator of “Diary of A Wimpy Kid” The makers of Mass Effect have, I imagine quite by accident, found themselves suspended over what they must find a frightening abyss, with There have always been editors, censors, critics and all the other intruders necessarily a part of commercial publishing. And the “input” of public Having an open and sincere dialogue with fans has become an integral part of our business and our books. We value their passion CEO/Publisher of IDW Publishing While I think there is a lot of merit to the idea of listening to the core audience of any given franchise. I think "caving" too Dickens never would have made the mistake of incorporating his readers’ ideas throughout a novel’s chapters and then written a final chapter Hardly. The new technology driving instantaneous feedback and a greater demand for reader participation is simply forcing writers and visual The new paradigm of feedback-fed conception, production and distribution will take a while to establish itself on the still “Wild, Wild West” In the end, as always: yuumei , alexiuss and vesner are creative, visual and narrative storytellers who, with well over a million Writers have editors, but who says the editors can't be the audiences themselves? If I were writing a story mostly for my own Author/Creator of Knite & 1000 W0RDS I believe in altering endings, as long as the fanbase demands it, but not in a way that the original book/game/title is heavily Author/Creator of "Romantically Apocalyptic" People were disappointed with ME3's ending, not just because the developers promised something completely different, but because Co-Creator of Off-White Graphic Novel Dave Elliott and Jordan Greenhall are acute observers of the deviantART community and its impact. Being in the comics industry, you are acutely aware of two things: 1) that every corporate character has a history Author/Creator - Weirding Willows It is no stretch to recognize that the nature of a civilization is tightly linked with its form of media. In the modern day, where interaction on a global level happens in seconds, involving the audience while a work is in progress seems to be the best way to ensure success, so long as the writer makes an effort to consider all of the feedback they get, in addition to considering what story they intend to tell themselves. Feedback is a tool, sharpened by the instant communication and social networking options made available today; but like any tool, if wielded improperly it can deface a work of art as much as redefine it. There will always be astounding stories that pay no regard to what an audience wants and are all the more richer for it. And I'm bloody thankful for that…I certainly care for the opinions of my readers, and I have kept them in the front of my mind during one story or another. People who create to be consumed would care about pleasing the audience, people who are consumed by their creation quite frankly care only to please themselves. There is certainly a delicate balance between considering input from outside sources and creating something how you, as a writer, imagine it to be. However, that fine line doesn't make the input any less meaningful. As a visual artist, have you ever experienced being pressured to alter an artwork, either by a dealer to make it more “salable,” or by your watchers, critics, or friends? As a writer, have you ever experienced being pressured to change an important part of a story, either at a prospective publisher’s or editor’s insistence, or simply because of a reader’s impassioned entreaties? As a reader or viewer (of movies, TV shows, videogames, art, etc.) do you feel a sense of entitlement giving you the right to not only criticize but actually demand changes be made to a disappointing work? Do you feel this entitlement is based in your great investment of both money and time in the work? Or do you feel this entitlement is based in your great investment of your head and heart in a particularly resonant storyline? As a writer or visual artist, is the connection between you and your audience important enough for you to want to make a change pleasing to them? As an online reader of Knite, Romantically Apocalyptic, or Off-White, is there an increased value or special connection you experience in being able to connect with the authors of your favorite works-in-progress and contribute your feedback? Does the ability to offer comments, suggestions, criticisms, and encouragement bond you creatively to a property in a way eclipsing passive fandom? Does Fan art and Fan Fiction created around an online story with author/reader interactivity become more of an integral part of the property than traditional offline fan art tributes? If you played ME3, how did you feel about the ending? TMNT or TANT?
The Future ofStorytellingHas Arrived
Should you listen to your audience?
The Contenders
investment of fans beyond simply spending their hard-earned cash.
vs.
disgruntled fans as nuisances deluded with a false sense of “entitlement” – I actually contend that commercial
storytelling across all media should increasingly incorporate community feedback as an essential element in a
project’s success. Fan influence might alter a project by 5% or 60%. It’s all in the balance of how fan feedback
is utilized in the process.
I am partaking of an “entertainment”. These are those momentary pleasures in life that help you relax or give you a cheap
thrill – and they are instantly disposable.
to vicariously inhabiting one of the characters in the Hunger Games. Dick Clark once rightly said that music becomes the
“soundtrack of our lives.” Movies have always been (and now, too, videogames) the alternative “religions” or mythos that
we choose to identify with, and by which we often define and direct how we think about our lives, sometimes to an extent
exceeding actual religions or ideologies. What I’m saying is that the “psychic stakes” in this current dispute are a little
higher and more vital to our culture than it just being a “consumer complaint” situation.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles by Zlydoc
From TheArtist GodsOf The Genre
and what I read in Moby Dick, are different things. That is very much one of the joys of the arts. We don't have a singular
response. There's a quote which states, 'All art aspires to the condition of music,' and that's because music is infinitely
interpretable. Who would want to conform an artist's vision into something else?
better world. And, hopefully, that vision will inspire generations to create their own art. That's just the way I see it.
CliveBarker , as a uniquely modern renaissance man, is especially qualified to comment on our topic. Only Stephen
King rivals his fame atop the charts of popular fantasy and horror fiction. As a novelist his books include "Abarat", "Imajica" and "Thief of Always". The Candyman and Hellraiser films were based on
his writings. But he is also a renowned visual artist, his paintings and drawings having hung in prestigious fine arts galleries.
He has been creatively involved in videogames, comic books, films and even costume design. He has produced films as diverse as
Gods and Monsters and The Midnight Meat Train. His perspective is that of an absolute original.
based on preexisting material like a comic. On the one hand, you have to be careful not to adhere too closely to the source material.
What's right for one medium (a comicbook or videogame, say) may not necessarily be right for a film. And vice versa. Secondarily, when
thinking about a film or TV show, you're talking about million or even tens of millions of viewers (as opposed to, say, 40,000 comicbook
readers). You are making a mass-market adaptation, so the broader audience may or may not be amenable to certain conceits.
from their actual consumers. Many of them no longer see movies in a public theater. More still, have never set forth in a comicbook
store. To some executives, there is literally no differentiation between, say, Superman and some small-press indie comicbook. They
perceive all comicbooks to be the same. They may have no understanding of the source material's DNA. I can't tell you how many times I've
had an executive suggest a change that I knew, in my gut, would send the fans screaming. It's hard to explain that to an executive,
sometimes. It's truly a gut-check kind of thing.
David Goyer provides invaluable perspective, having mastered every facet of the genre arts narrative. He is a
screenwriter (Dark City, Batman Begins, The Dark Knight, Man of Steel) who has also written for TV, comic books and videogames. He is
a film director (Blade: Trinity, The Unborn) and producer (Blade II and Trinity, Ghost Rider: Spirit of Vengeance). He is a novelist
(Heaven’s Shadow). Heaven’s War, the second book of his sci-fi trilogy, is unleashed this July; The Dark Knight Rises, the film sequel
from his original story, is in post-production; and his newest creation, Da Vinci’s Demons will debut soon on Starz.
their fans and to make adjustments along the way, but I'm not so sure that a collaborative effort can create a singular vision. I think a
creator should not only write to please their audience but also to occasionally surprise them.
Rue - The Hunger Games by Patsie
So what’s really going on with theMass Effect 3& TMNT showdown?
one foot planted in the old way of doing things, and the other foot toeing the unfamiliar terrain on the other side of the yawning chasm. They
encouraged fans to change the outcome of the game with their own decisions – but then largely ignored those decisions. Is this really a dispute
over creator’s rights vs. fan entitlement – or is it about how technology’s new tools are fundamentally changing commercial story narrative creation?
readership has always factored in as well, with some artists cursing it and others embracing it. Rather than write “take-it-or-leave-it” novels,
complete at time of publication, Charles Dickens was famous for creating his serialized stories a chapter at a time, published weekly of monthly
in magazines or newspapers specifically so he could gauge readers’ response to each chapter before writing or revising the next. Great Expectations
is certainly the product of Dickens’s brilliant compassionate mind and expert writing talents – but it’s also to a tremendous extent a collaborative
creation with hundreds of “contributing authors”!
Mass Effect 3 how it should've ended by Hellstern
ThePublishingPerspective
and input, so direct conduits like social media have helped us form a solid bond and bring us even closer in what is already a
tightly knit industry.
much to what fans want can lead to a watered-down product. Sometimes fans think they want something and as soon as they get it, the
franchise suddenly loses its dramatic tension. The bottom line, for me, is that sometimes there's a groundswell that is too loud to ignore.
If the majority of your fanbase is upset by something you've done or clamoring for a plot point that has been ignored, it would be
silly to dismiss it out of hand. But creators should also be wary of taking every single critique of their project too seriously.
Co-President and Co-Publisher, Ardden Entertainment LLC
Comic Book Writer, Flash Gordon and Phoenix / Founder, Macmillan Films
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles by SkyFinch
So Here IsThe Point
completely at odds with all those ideas. The Mass Effect 3 mistake was to encourage player “revisions” to the storyline – but only as a gimmick
rather than committing to this new reality as an integral part of the evolution of the narrative. Any “narrative” today, to be commercially viable,
will have to be “written” for the full spectrum of storytelling demanded by the evolution of web production and distribution. Stories must be full
spectrum narratives, able to fit themselves to tellings as videogames, comics and graphic novels, traditional novels, feature film and television
and Internet productions (live action or animated). And all these iterations of a core story will be subject to constant fan comment for revision
and extension. This is the brave new world that Dickens would have embraced as liberating rather than destructive of his authorship, the tool of
“reader” feedback having now become an instantaneous and continuous global information stream that will propel forward those who learn to navigate
it, and drown those who fear a “loss of control” in uncharted waters.
So is “authorship” doomed?
artist/creators in other art forms to face new realities and make tough decisions about how their artistic expression is going to be distributed to the planet.
Every time a painting or journal is posted on deviantART it has the potential to be experienced by a thousand times the number of people who had access
to anything written by Charles Dickens in his time. And be instantly commented upon by those people. Personal artistic expression and connection
has been liberated as never before. But the conundrum remains: No artist has to ever alter or revise an artwork, but then again, no artist has to
ever make a penny from his or her art. Writers, and all artists, must find the spot on that “art vs. pay” continuum where they are most comfortable
and functional. There can always be art for art’s sake, unintended for sale, but there is now a radical new way of becoming a successful and
world-popular commercial storyteller. And the new way heeds the feedback enabled by the new tech from word one.
Internet, but it will provide producers of content-driven stories with a real security in the commercial success of their properties – rather than
the increasing chaos they are currently falsely fearing. In the end “authorship” will always be bestowed upon the artist individual who most
commands respect as the one whose efforts most connect with us, the readers or viewers, regardless of any input from feedback or cuts by editors.
Writers need not fear a degradation of their work, nor their becoming mere typists transcribing the public’s wishes.
True talent and true vision will win out.
Charles Dickens by JuanOsborne
Deviant Artists AlreadyEmbracing the Futureof Storytelling
reads each for their stories on deviantART, enjoy an unprecedented relationship with their online audience. Their input is informed
by their status as artists already participating in storytelling’s new paradigm.
enjoyment, then I have no obligations to please the audience. However, if I am creating something with the main purpose of
marketing to the masses, then my work should reasonably meet their expectations, and the best way to do that would be to listen to their opinions.
edited, but rather in the way in which the 2nd story of the title continues. For example, if the protagonist dies in the 1st book,
he can be somehow brought back to life if the fanbase really really wants to read a 2nd book about him. Without this alteration,
one of the greatest books I've read called 'The Golden Calf' would not exist. Personally I'm very heavily influenced by critics and
fans, so if my work is lacking in some regard, I update it or try to improve on it.
players didn't just watch/play this story – they were an integral part of it up to that point. Every player who spent their time
playing all of the three games created a strong bond between themselves and Commander Shepard to a degree that, in a way, they all
became Commander Shepard. We all want to believe that our actions can change our fate and the fate of the world.
with certain aspects of that history carved in stone, and 2) these characters have a strong, ardent following that, if
you are going to change them, it had better be good, or you'll know about it via Twitter, Facebook, and deviantART. I
will no doubt face this myself 10 times over with "The Weirding Willows," which merges timelines and histories of more
than a dozen beloved, classic characters. Whilst being as respectful of the characters and their histories as possible,
I won't let that stand in the way of what I want to do with the possibilities represented. I'm looking forward to the
feedback I expect from this one.
It must be understood that we are undergoing a media transformation quite as substantial as the invention of written
language. As a consequence, we should expect social media (or, better, what will come to be known as Transmedia) to reshape
our world in deeply profound ways. This movement from center to edge, from author to community, from broadcast to interactivity,
is a fundamental. We will be seeing it literally everywhere, including art. Especially art - as we come to discover that one
of the core threads of this transition is a (real) aestheticization of life.
Mass Effect 3: At Any Cost by Arkis
Massacre of the InnocenceGeorgie Porgie threw an orgy
just outside L.A.,
where Jack Be Nimble grabbed his thimble,
outing him as gay...
Little Jack Horner bought Time Warner
before the bubble burst,
though Jumping Jack Flash saw the crash
and liquidated first...
Jack said Jill was taking the Pill
to ward off impregnation;
the Three Blind Mice have lobbied twice
for victim's compensation...
Little Miss Muffet had her tuffet
liposuctioned out,
and L
I Have Hope I have Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. I have to remember to breathe every time those words come, I don’t want to believe it. I still can’t believe it. I remember the first time my counselor looked at me and told me that my depression and anxiety might be something more. Great, I thought, What could possibly be worse than this?
Firstly, PTSD is not a disorder that only affects our war heroes, though that is what it’s commonly associated with. My own first thoughts were: “isn’t that a disorder for war veterans or someone who witnessed war first-hand?“ The truth is there are many causes for Post Traumatic Stress
QuestionsFor the Reader
Related content
Comments: 3125
I want to know what the original creators of TMNT think about those changes. Isn’t that important? I know I personally would pissed to no end if someone took something of mine and changed things about it. Especially some key points. I think Michael Bay for the most part is an idiot who can’t come up with original ideas, so he steals other people’s ideas and makes them his own and attempts to make money off of them. Transformers one was pretty cool, the rest junk. He wasn’t trying to make a good film those last two films though. That’s obvious.
This is kind of like a so called comic artist who blatantly steals panel art and poses and puts their characters in place of other people’s characters, case in point Nick Simmons and his entry into the comic book world, which didn’t last long. To me what Michael Bay is doing is no different than that.
I’m all for creators rights in ignoring what fans want, because you will never please every fan out there. But I’m sick of junk like these happening. Michael Bay doesn’t care about the fan, that’s obvious in his decision to change important elements to the story. He just cares about making money. Just like the studios that are backing him. The truth is most of people who own and run the companies of our beloved creations, don’t care about you as a fan; you are a consumer and nothing more. This is just my thoughts obviously and everyone is entitled to agree or disagree, but you can look at the history of how fans have been treated. I really don’t care if Michael Bay makes a Ninja Turtle movie or Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle movie; he’s already proven himself to make worthless junk of movies a long time ago. I won’t waste my money to go see it.
I didn’t play mass effect 3, but if you promise your players one thing, and then don’t deliver that in the end, then yeah you should expect angry fans. I’ve heard about the end. Sounded like a pretty stupid move on their part. I read once a rule of storytelling is if you promise your audience one thing and then by the end of that book, you have not made due on that promise, you have done a bad job in storytelling. I’m not sure how much I think this is true, but I can see the reason behind this rule.
A great example I have found of fans interacting with the creator is this one. [link] Dragons Bard, a serial novel written by Tracy Hickman (of Dragonlance and Ravenloft fame ). I’m not registered because right now I cannot afford it, but I have read about this, and heard many interviews with Tracy Hickman, and what he is doing over there is an amazing idea. If more creators did this kind of thing I think they would care more about their fans.
At the same time, sometimes the fan is wrong, and you cannot please every fan.
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not all things have a happy ending its called realism not every single thing have a happy ending and that is what most fans dont realize they need to get over it
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Thats what I meant to say fans need to know thing wont always work in their favor I just couldn't find the right words to say it
bottom line is fans always complain (yeah I think that sounded right)
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You kidding? All to often I hear fans complain when something DOES have a happy ending. Star Wars and Harry Potter come to mind.
Then there's the countless fanfiction of various franchises that make them far more dramatic and depressing then they were ever intended to be.
So, no. I don't think fans like happy endings either :/
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Also, you can make all the good choices in the world, sometimes things dont work in your favor anyways.
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Alright i think that the creator of the series/book/game/and so on has the final call, its thiers and they can do what thery wish with it.
HAS ANYONE READ GRIMMS FAIRY TALES!!!! thiers not always a happy ending to everything.
You read a story to be rewarded or tossed around by it, Harry potter starts off fun and ends with lots of unessory death, Legend of the Seeker is long brutal and harsh to the reader trind them apart with what happens to the main cast. Every book has to have something that keeps the reader going.
With games its a well it would have been nice but its not what happen. Does Mario get the princess yes but if she didnt fall in to Bowsers hands agian then how would thier be more games or the age old joke? I wont talk about Mass Effect as i dont like the game.
Simply put THIER JUST STORIES AND ENTERAIMENT!!!! This isnt real life and things of this nature are the creators relam not the fans, fans will come and go but the matrial has to be strong enuff to stand the test of time. If Shakespeare would have changed his work for his fans would it be the same? You write to a adudance yes but it can only be streched so far before its fandom and not the orginal idea.......in parting best example i have.....
Army of Darkness....US release has the nice fluffy ending with him returning to S-Mart and everthing being ok, overseas and director version has the he messed up and sleep to long and woke up to a destoryed world. Now which is the creator and which was the fan?
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Things we don't like are necessary for a story, from how i see it. I haven't played ME3 yet, so i can't say for sure, but endings are a different story. Everyone has their own idea of what's 'right', and if a lot of these people got what they wanted, i'd probably not enjoy what i'm playing/watching as much.
this is why i prefer comic books to novels. the AUTHOR is creating this world, and i'd like to see it how they see it. if i want to create my own world, i can think of my own story. Stop mistaking creativity with reading words and having images pop into your head, they are very different ideas. I think the author can change their work based on what the fans say, but not to how the fans want it. Altering the story in a way that you didn't have it initially, but not in a way that will leave you as the co-writer/author.
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Here's the deal, we have the aforementioned new technology driving "instantaneous feedback" right at our fingertips. But it's not just for feedback to the movie/game studios...it can be used to destroy their credibility and their business. The more connected you are the more exposed you are. These companies can choose not to listen to the fans. But when their stock drops through the roof and they're forced to shut their doors because a twitter trend has the whole nation boycotting them, they shouldn't turn around and cry foul.
We use to vote with our money. If we didn't like something we didn't buy or go see it. Now we vote with our facebook, twitter, and tumblr accounts. We can tell thousands of people not to see a movie or not to buy a game. I know my decision on not to buy Mass Effect 3 was based on reading about how bad the ending was from a blog. That blog entry just cost Bioware/EA $60. And as word spreads instantaneously so will the idea behind it. To boycott, to blast with dislike, hack, etc. Companies need to know what they're up against. An army of connected fans with little or no thought to the power that their words hold on the internet.
So big gaming, big movies, big whatever...listen to your fans. You certainly don't have to. And by all means, hire that director with the 'wacky creative visions' and turn him loose on our childhood. But don't be surprised if you're woken up in the middle of the night and shooed off the park bench you've been sleeping on.
Sincerely,
The fans
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A very awesome read indeed. Now let's cut to the 2 cent coins tossing.
In my opinion, fans should not have the power to alter an already done piece of art. We didn't ask Lucas to change Indiana Jones 4, now did we? It was a crap movie, nobody liked it, but nobody asked for a change. Same goes for Episode 2 and 3 of SW. Or The Last Airbender movie. No fanatic should have the power to alter a piece of art to their collective hive mind liking, no matter how much they don't like it.
It is absolutely OK to let fans get involved in an ongoing series, like it has been done quite a lot, but when you don't want spoilers, when you want them to experience a whole thing from beginning to an end without knowing what is next, you can't involve them, and they shouldn't be allowed to make you... change a finished work. Unpublished work - OK, let em give feedback, critiques, but once it is released, the only way is to go forward - if fans are not satisfied with the ending - expand upon it, don't change it, which as far as I know is what Bioware will do. It's nice.
That's why being a fan is bad. Because you become a fanatic. Now, I haven't played ME3 yet, I can't afford a full price game right now, but I have no doubt that the ending is technically of good quality. Fans don't like WHAT happens in it, and that is subjective. There are many games with more than dissatisfying endings, there are games and movies that end with cliffhangers and never get a sequel.
Also, especially with games, there is one thing people seem to have missed - what makes us love games is the mix of strong negative and positive emotions, be it from the game being hard, or some character being a complete asshole to the player, what makes games awesome is never one emotion of awe or love, but a mix of rage, love, hate, happiness, sense of accomplishment, optionally sadness, and so on and so forth. And that is why games at large aren't considered as good as the 90s games by many older gamers, because now it is just too easy and games have no spine, they can't stand up as a challenge to the consumer. I for one love what Bioware did, it made people rage, it made them go wild, express their emotions, it made them just alive with that ending. The other option was to have a "meh, it was fairly good ending". There is no awesome in today's games, it is either "meh, good", average or bad and must burn in hell.
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Actually, the ending isn't even technically proficient. It's a confusing mess in terms of editing, in terms of visual clarity, and it seems to basically subvert every sound storytelling principal since Aristotle wrote Poetics. Its directing is sloppy, its writing is embarrassing. The game advertises multiple endings, but almost cut-for-cut all endings are exactly the same with a differently colored tint. In a game that advertises the effects of your choices, generally holds that promise, and has thousands of variables -- none of them come into play.
There are dozens of near-thesis statement level articles on the net explaining why the conclusion to ME3 is so wrong. I'm a massive nerd and I've never seen an outrage of this magnitude.
In short, it's a nightmare on pretty much every single field you can possibly imagine.
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Hm, that was an assumption there, because I have high expectations of Bioware and pretty much all the time they've fulfilled them. I read that The Ending(s) just weren't satisfying plot-wise - they didn't answer questions, they didn't just provide enough. Apparently I was wrong.
But then again, I stand by my point that they shouldn't actually allow their fans to force them to change that - they can always expand upon it and redeem themselves that way, through free DLC for example, or a mission pack, expansions and so on.
Anyway, I believe next month I'll be playing Mass Effect 3, and I'll have a solid opinion on the ending.
It's not only that, by the way - this and the past year gamers have been very vocal, and this has brought us a few nice things, like Dark Souls to the PC. Nothing wrong with being vocal, it's quite nice actually, just I don't believe fanatics have the right to ask for a change in a finished work.
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Personally, I like to draw a lot and always try to give my best to make it look at good as possible. If somebody tells me that something doesn't look good I'll ask why and if I agree I change it accordingly.
If I disagree and the person still pressures me, he/she tells me unconsciously that he/she doesn't respect my personal way of expressing things through my drawings.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of constructive critism, but there are things I want to do a certain way to maybe get a message across or because I think that there's no need to change something because to me, it looks good. Should everybody comment on how one certain aspect doesn't fit in and I'm the only one who thinks it does I'd do a remake and compare the two pictures, because when really everybody says it looks wrong I'd at least try their idea out.
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where'd the fan entitlement bullshit come from? we just thought the me3 endings were stupid and a bad way to end the series. so we complained, and we have every right. this article makes this song like we have some legal stake in the issue, and we're going to sue their pants off if they don't give us what we WANT(not deserve).
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"Teenage alien ninja turtles" just google it.
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1) I have felt pressured but this is mainly because of a huge inaccuracy in the character's actions, a character was described as ruthless and I wrote them trying to save a former opponent whereas they wouldn't even entertain the thought.
2)I feel my literary works are chiefly emotional, if you have read my journal entry "The Gauntlet: Shatered", (I guess I shouldn't have advertized my work, but you get the idea) I started that as a means of letting go of whatever it was that made me so upset, and ever since, I had written it as a permutation of imagination and venting.
3) No, I wouldn't really care if my change upset my audience (Unless that is I some how ended up in the middle of Stephen king's "Misery").
4) Well yes and no, like I said if my change doesn't satisfy you, O.F.W.. I mean if there is an inaccuracy, then I will gladly change that but I wouldn't like you to try to change the plot of one of my works, so why would I try to change your work?
5)...... Uh, I cannot answer that just yet.
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This sums up my thoughts on this topic. --> [link] You can substitute "movie" with comic, video=game..or really any form of entertainment..
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I definitely, 100% believe in communal storytelling. I guess it's because my mother is a storyteller, and part of her job is to collect classic myths and rework them into something that can entertain audiences of today, often involving audience participation or drawing in of other, more personal stories. I feel like stories have always been communal and denying that aspect just stunts creativity. Stories come from hearing and experiencing other stories, and other stories come from other people, and you can't tell a story without people there to listen-- or at least, not in a way that is, I feel, very satisfactory as an artist. Narrative is a positive feedback loop by nature.
As a writer, I understand the defensiveness about saying "no, this is what my story is about" or "no, this is what my characters are like, and this is what they are going to do" and you don't really want to change that, because they're your babies and you love them; but there's a huge, HUGE difference between "pandering" to an editor or fanbase (and therefore losing "artistic integrity") and recognizing that a story isn't just yours alone-- it's a collective experience. That should be celebrated, I think. A good narrative brings people together in ways not a lot of things can.
Think of the storyteller or artist like a trail guide: they should know where they're going and take you to fun places, but at the same time, they need to be aware of the needs of their group. They need to make sure they're not going too fast or pushing too hard, or skipping over the places people want to see best, or else it will end up in a bad experience for everyone-- and that doesn't make the trail guide a very GOOD trail guide, does it? But at the same time, the trail guide needs to make sure the group doesn't lead so much that they decide to take the expedition over the edge of a cliff. A writer/artist too must strike that balance; if they can find that sweet spot between controlling the story with an iron fist and having too many chefs spoiling the soup, they can invite the audience in to have some active involvement in the story, creating an active investment in the story, while still maintaining a quality experience.
At least, that's how I intend to continue writing, and that's how I'll maintain my "artistic integrity".
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I think there are 2 schools of thought here, but first I'll voice my opinions.
I think the fanbases are getting tooooo pushy, demanding too much and a lot of the time groups within the fanbase can conflict, one wanting one thing, and another wanting something else. I don't support fanpleasing, I think that a creator should create what they want and not base it on the sole purpose of making money from gullible idiots who throw their money away.
Schools of thought are this: 1, if a company wants to please the moronic shouters demanding more and more, it leads to degeneration, because usually the ones yelling the odds are only filling their fantasies, not being creative. (from personal experiance on the PSN network, a lot of people don't even realise that their games are made by people, they think they come from thin air)
2, If a company delivers a piece of rubbish, then sure it's going to be abused and no one will want to see/play/use it. So, instead of churning out any old rubbish, and at the same time not fan pleasing, they should go for elements of what is popular, not follow it, and try to create something different, that would be much better to push their talents instead of lazily looking for ways to make easy money in the market. No effort really shows.
I agree with comments here that people shouldn't just rush about and buy everything that everyone else is buying, was like peer pressure in the early 90's, everyone did what everyone else was doing, and it led to regret and disappointment, with very little fulfilment.
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Just gonna leave this here
[link]
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An artist should never feel they "need" to change their works. That said once you reach a certain level of visibility you are going to need to start being able to look at your criticism and be able to emotionally detach yourself from your end product to be able to see if the criticism holds any merit.
That doesn't mean that all criticism is valid, and if given the choice you should always look for your own solutions to the consumer problems instead of just eating theirs up. A surefire sign that there's something to the criticism is that it's being repeated from multiple sources.
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I can say that a fair number of my stories have been changed quite a bit from the original intent. Editors and publishers provide a fair bit of vital input that should for the most part be taken into account. I have no problem with making adjustments for this, but given a large lack of fans, I've only had minimal critique from a fanbase. What I have gotten is impassioned resistance to some of my ideas. But given that part of my writing style involves giving disbelief or anger, this has hardly let me change my ideas too much.
Now as an observer? I feel no right to ever demand changes. I trusted these people to deliver a story and an ending that was not of my own design. For that reason I cannot honestly say that I should provide more than constructive criticism. The decisions of other artists are not to be shaken after the fact. Perhaps questioned, but not actually adjusted for my preferences. Whether or not I resign myself to hours of reading a book or playing a game should not give me any entitlement whatsoever.
That's not how all people think, but as a creator I know that difficulties that come with telling elaborate, engaging stories that everyone will like. I think it is impossible. And given that, there is nothing wrong with that. Even if I were to make the best story in history and only 10% of the fanbase approved of its ending, I would be content because that ending is the destination I and by extension the hero of the story have arrived at even with all the pain and suffering that has traced that long and dirty road.
This all being said, if enough of my fans would complain about an ending enough, I would be willing to adjust my details by adding perhaps a little more to the epilogue. For all I know, I may have missed a plot point and that needs to be addressed. But... I will almost never change the ending itself. I tend to have hundreds of possible endings in mind when writing a story and to be honest, the one I decide to choose often has more than its share of sentimental and sometimes painful attachment considering that I decided to leave all other possibilities aside in favour of the one I chose.
Not having a Facebook account was a choice I made years back. And right now, I can say that I am fine with using snail mail and regular email to communicate with creators. It may be slow, but in the end, the time lag gives me time to think over the things I just spoke of in the message. Even if I was upset, I will have recovered by the time I get a reply. And usually, I feel fine and content.
Mass Effect 3 was a wonderful game. And while the narrative differed only slightly with my choices, I can say that the game has easily become one of my most treasured memories. Every decision, every battle, every major plot point had me actively striving to reach a catharsis. In the end, I wound up crying--literally crying--when I got to the end of the game. I was sad, I was heart-broken, I was upset. But I was also happy. The ending urged me to make the vital choice that the series had been building up to, with no shortage of pain in the moments prior. While there was no detailed epilogue like in many games, the decision alone allowed me to interpret my decision in the way I imagined it. To me, the galaxy will be a happier, more ideal place now that the conflict is over. After the week or so of heavyhearted aftermath, I was able to say that the ending was perfect for me. And changing it now would only hurt me because then my decision--my conclusion--was wrong. And that would hurt me in ways I cannot foresee.
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Nice try, but I wanted to say what I'm thinking personally the 1st picture I've seen.The picture where Mutant Ninja looks cruel and scary. I don't want the games to be mixed with others like Mass Effect or something like that. If anyone wants to meke supergames and mix the heroes of some comics I think it could be interesting if they keep the spirit of each of the hero added to the game. I think it could be possible to try but not to make the good become the evil.)
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If some "fan" tried to tell ME to re-write, re-record, or re-draw my art I'd tell them to stick it where the sun don't shine.
Weather I like what they do or not, it's THEIR choice. Just because you buy someones products doesn't mean you have any right to dictate to them anything.
If you want to show them your disdain, don't buy their product/game/CD/movie. I didn't buy Mass Effect 3 for example. I didn't buy any of the Transformers movies. I wont buy the new Turtles movie. You don't HAVE to have anything. Have some balls. Don't fall for the hype.
Art should never be dictated by profit margins or anyone but the artist. PERIOD!!!
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Hmm... I think when you deal with the fanbase, you have to strike a delicate balance: take some good ideas from them( since fans can dream up some good improvements), but don't totally pander to the base( since the masses are, in themselves, pretty fickle.)
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I think there is a difference between wishes of the fans and dictatorship of the fans. Incorporating the first is great, enforcing the second *IS* IMHO death of the authorship and because there are so many fans with so many desires and wishes, if we mix all them together the result is the same as with colors - brown ....
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I think the biggest question is why is the story being created? If you're creating a story for marketing success, yes, listen to your fan base. If you're creating a story for story's sake, fuckem. Most are somewhere in between.
fwiw I've never been a "invested" in any video game or movie franchise. I really can't consider myself a rabid fan over anything. I enjoy playing Final Fantasy, and I enjoyed reading Harry Potter, but I wasn't clawing at my seat in the movie theater when I found out they cut my favorite scene from the Lord of the Rings books. I'm invested, just not THAT invested. I have more important things to get worked up over like, you know, real life.
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I personally do think that this is true. You have to have a good enough story and ending that somehow even meets or further surprise the audience.
I have to really praise you for pointing out the fact that Hollywood is now milking money out of good old story, particularly Michael Bay as you can see from Transformers and now the upcoming TMNT. What he did wrong in specific is that he only listened to the audience (or his bank account) who said that they want another sequel, yet without a single good piece of story, the team just mashed around a bunch of cramp and make it 3D to capture the hearts of the audience. Shockwave is what I am pointing out as his purpose is only to curl his tentacles and break buildings for the 3D effect.
I really appreciate this mesmerizing, truthful and astonishing great piece of article!
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I think that game, story creators, and any major company should take into account fans desires when the game is in the making, but once it is produced their should be no pressure to change it, the ending is the way it is, as long as it's good thats what matters. The point to an ending whether sad or happy is, their is a rhyme and a reason to it.
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Frankly the reader or the consumer is not entitled to get the ending they want. If every single book, movie, or video game ended the way I felt it should it would never have brought me the satisfaction or the entertainment that I had during the process. So I say there is no such thing as entitlement and it threatens every write that an author has with their products.
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Look, make whatever you're going to make. Some people will like it and some people won't. That's the way it always is. And every time someone fucks with/reboots/anything's a franchise people get pissed off. That's the way it will always be. The pissed off and the excited. You should only make something you're proud of. Something you want other people to see. Otherwise there's no point to any of it. And don't apologize for it. Even the people that are pissed off are probably going to see the TMNT movie anyway.
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All of you Shut the Fucking hell Up!
You have no right to judge so until the ninja turtles movie comes out just you god Damn Opionated view until then You Faggot Idiots.
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If Hollywood wants to make movies out of other things, the Director needs to want to make the movie for the same reason that the original author wanted to make it.
If they are in harmony, then the movie will evoke the same qualities that made us like the original creation in the first place. The companies making movies shouldn't be marrying creators and directors based on popularity, but based on drive and communication.
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My Thoughts:
Movie makers are always murdering stories. Take the Spider-Man films thus far, for instance: turning Venom into some emo kid instead of an experienced reporter who felt wronged by little upstart Peter Parker, and Star Trek 2009 completely re-writing the Star Trek storyline for no good reason. I've just stopped going to the cinema. I wait until films come on TV, then if I like them I buy the DVD, that way I only pay for the things that I think are good enough to pay for. Some films I will probably go and see in the cinema if enough people say they're good, but if I hear a film is bad or not true to the original story I'll avoid it completely, I protest with my feet.
Many changes are completely unnecessary though, like making the turtles aliens. That doesn't even make sense, they're TURTLES.
Questions for the Reader
As a visual artist, have you ever experienced being pressured to alter an artwork, either by a dealer to make it more “salable,” or by your watchers, critics, or friends?
- I always read feedback on my artwork and stories, because I'm posting my art to get feedback, and if I find it helpful I will change things to make them better. I won't compromise my original story be adding or changing unnecessary things though, I want it to be true to my original vision, I just want to know where I can improve as an artist and story-teller.
As a writer, have you ever experienced being pressured to change an important part of a story, either at a prospective publisher’s or editor’s insistence, or simply because of a reader’s impassioned entreaties?
- I once worked as part of a group machinima project. I would build a set and characters in the game, ready to animate, show them to the director, then he'd say I completely interpreted the script and make me change it all. It was his script though, so I would make everything over again and submit to his will, but there were some areas we would argue about and I felt he wouldn't budge on but that he should. In once scene he has some science lab assistants call someone a "ginga" with a hard "g", a derogatory term for red-haired people, and I said that those characters wouldn't use that kind of language, but he refused to budge. He had already re-worked that scene because the animation was impossible for the first draft though.
I left the project because I felt he was treating me like an employee, despite the fact that I was doing it in my spare time for free, and was being unreasonable with the demands me made on me.
Apart from that I've never been published professionally, so I've not really had other experience of that. I do always try to stay true to original mythology or fiction if I reference something in my writing and art though, because I feel to change things for no reason is disrespectful to the original artist/author/people who used to worship whatever mythological being that I am referencing, etc. and it annoys me that today's screen writers seem to totally ignore the original fiction or mythos that they base their screenplays on.
As a reader or viewer (of movies, TV shows, videogames, art, etc.) do you feel a sense of entitlement giving you the right to not only criticize but actually demand changes be made to a disappointing work?
Do you feel this entitlement is based in your great investment of both money and time in the work? Or do you feel this entitlement is based in your great investment of your head and heart in a particularly resonant storyline?
- I feel that if enough people don't want something or want it changed, writers should listen. After all, if they're making something that people aren't going to want, then it's in their interest to change it to something people DO want. Also, if we, the fans, have grown up with the original story, bought the comics, watched the cartoons, bought the toys, etc. we feel that a) we've spent money on the franchise so they owe us continuity and good entertainment in return and b) it is destroying out childhood memories and betraying our loyalty to the franchise to change major elements of it, thus ruining it for the loyal oldschool fans.
So yes, I feel entitled to have a say.
As a writer or visual artist, is the connection between you and your audience important enough for you to want to make a change pleasing to them?
- Sometimes. I won't change certain things, and I won't draw/write "fan service", but I do try to see what feedback I get and learn from it. I won't change something just because people ask for it, but then I write original fiction, I haven't taken someone else's idea and changed it beyond recognition like Michael Bay or J.J. Abram.
As an online reader of Knite, Romantically Apocalyptic, or Off-White, is there an increased value or special connection you experience in being able to connect with the authors of your favorite works-in-progress and contribute your feedback?
I've never read any of those... I do feel valued when my feedback is listened to though, like it USED to be in the Red vs. Blue community. Since the site changes and the gradual degredation of the series though I've stopped logging into the site and withdrawn my sponsorship.
There haven't been other instances where I've had the chance to give feedback though... I guess on some of the comics on Deviant Art? It's nice to know you're appreciated as a fan in any case. When things are changed in a way you don't like you feel... betrayed.
Does the ability to offer comments, suggestions, criticisms, and encouragement bond you creatively to a property in a way eclipsing passive fandom?
It really depends on what kind of feedback you get.
Does Fan art and Fan Fiction created around an online story with author/reader interactivity become more of an integral part of the property than traditional offline fan art tributes?
I think the ease of access of fan fiction and fan art on the internet means more people are aware of it and therefore it becomes a bigger part of the community just because everyone can see it and read it. Offline not many people see it, so it rarely enters the general mythos of the original fiction.
If you played ME3, how did you feel about the ending? TMNT or TANT?
I haven't played the Mass Effect games, but I am strongly for Teenage MUTANT Ninja Turtles and againt Teenage ALIEN Ninja Turtles (which is just plain silly).
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A well written article.
In regards to ME3 after all the time and money fans have invested into this world are they not allowed the right to demand or ask for the ending/endings they were promised?
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As far as mass effect goes, the ending was... Poor to say the least. Each ending had exactly the same cutscene but with different colours. But that is beside the point. What really disappointed the fans was the lack of diversity that the ending obtained.
Us humans are fickle creatures when in comes to emotions, and the producers of the famous mass effect series have wanted the consumers to become emotionally bonded to their characters, giving them choices throughout the entire series's that affects the characters morality and those around them.
And it worked. But because of that bond people will demand an ending which suits the way their character has acted throughout the game.
What would of most been satisfying is a large variation in how mass effect 3 could of ended. There could of been an extremely hard to obtain good ending, and a not so hard to obtain extremely bad ending. Or somewhere in between which would be the current ending people are so angry about.
All of which would of been affected by the decisions that the consumer had made during the course of the series. The whole point of Publishing something is to show it to the general public, whether it would be art or a game, and follow up on their opinion.
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I think listening to the audience is damaging to a large degree. Whatever you create, the audience had no opinion about it before you created it. Their opinion did not help to make it what it is, why would it help continue that?
An audience is contradictory and reactionary. It's opinion is only likely to move toward the lowest common denominator. In fact the reason most Hollywood films are instantly forgettable is that they are designed by committee to appease the masses.
The mistake here is that this article suggest the Ninja Turtles being aliens is a creative error. It isn't, its a quality control issue, like that problem with holding an iPhone the wrong way. The Ninja Turtles movie is a product, if they get the design wrong, people wont buy.
Anyway, if audience is the future of storytelling, future stories are going to be bland, predictable rubbish. If the audience knew how to write your story, it would already have done so.
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Spielberg said it best, it's a collaboration between creator and consumer. Bioware should know better than to give a half ass ending. you guys created a game based "solely" on choice and consequences, and we get one(16) ending with different colors. It's NOT entitlement, it's common sense. so we get a free DLC added to the current ending. fine. moving on.
Michael Bay is a dick. period. if he knows what TMNT fans wants and respects it he wouldn't change the very thing that makes it unique. besides you can't call em freakin' turtles if they are aliens can we?? so why bother with TANT? call it something else like a spiritual successor to TMNT or something that is based loosely on that franchise. Battletoads? whatever the case it's laughable really, it's like "hey lets make Thundercats, except they are really household cats that was exposed to a microwave oven, so they are called MicroCats! and Mumra is a Nazi. Don't worry guys im collaborating with the original creators".
Here is the deal: if we had great creators back then making great things without the instantaneous feedback we have today, what's wrong with this picture?
Degradation of artistic talent. If creators of today somehow are dependent on feedback then you (creator) aren't good enough to call yourself that in the first place. why do you depend on feedback if you "know" what you're doing? again going back to Spielberg, collaboration with the consumer "based" on the creator's inception. does Spielberg ask for feedback like an amateur? Hell no he is the Master of his craft and he deserves the title.
That's entitlement status. Not normal people who are just passionate about a game trilogy that felt betrayed by the ending, that is just common sense.
another question: since when common sense is NOT a thing? whats that Mr Bay? oh you farted...
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Can simply put this all in a single sentance.
If one sells their rights for a cup of rice, expect porridge.
Man who made the turtles sold it, and now its becoming something else; ME3 is Corporate, all they give a toss about are bucks. Corporate is on the look out for the next golden goose so they can genetically modify it to binary fission golden eggs - think The Hunger Games, Twilight. Since Harry Potter made a fortune, all want to find the next one and flog like a dead horse.
At the end of the day, what do you want? Creativity or cash. Contuary to belief, cannot have both. Money does not make creativity.
If others try to force you, tell them to F*** off.
Good article!
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I was at a convention on the weekend that was attended by Brandon Sanderson, the writer who took over the epic Wheel of Time series when Robert Jordan passed away. If anyone has a unique insight to delivering on 'what fans want', it would be this guy. He was hosting a discussion titled 'What Do You Owe Your Reader?' and had some very interesting things to say. I am going to paraphrase here, but there is one point that stood out to me and I think can be applicable to any genre or medium.
You need to deliver on the promises you have made to your audience. If there are character arcs that need to be resolved, conflicts or plots; you have made a promise to your reader and should deliver. There will always be certain expectations from the fan base, and you should meet their expectations, but in a way they didn't expect. Know your genre and know your audience.
So, as *IrrevocableFate stated, there is a delicate balance between using outside input and creating something that is your own. But as long as you deliver on your promises as a creative artist, your fans will follow you on any trip you take them on.
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I have heard him say similar things before. He is a brilliant writer.
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Crazy! If the art is original I don't think fans have any right to complain and demand changes. Well, complain, certainly but who are you to challenge an artist's vision? Why are you qualified to know better what they see in their heads and their hearts. It's the height of arrogance.
However, the Turtles example is the opposite. It's someone else's material that Bay is butchering, so fans have every right to complain. [link]
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First of all, great article, I really enjoyed reading it. You raise some very interesting points on a subject that has been, what I would describe as, lurking around every since technology opened the flip side of the creator-consumer channel to the masses. As with most serious arguments, I feel that both extremities of the scale can line up some strong arguments.
My first thought was, what if I think back to all the stories, movies or comics I read/saw as a kid that shaped my life in often pretty profound ways, how would they have affected me if they would have been written/made by immense input from the soon to be consumers? To use your example, how would Mob Dick be different today? I suppose, to a certain extent, the individual interpretation give some flexibility, but how far can outside input go when someone wishes to tell their story?
At first, I instinctively agreed with the "I create - you buy". I mean complaining about the ending of a story is like complaining about getting the wrong toy in a Kinder surprise egg. You willingly buy something you only know part of the specs about. The alternative would be to get the full story before you buy, and that makes the point mute.
But that was before social media, before the internet. Today, for a video game for instance, you stick the little tidbits that are leaked or advertised together to have a pretty accurate idea of what the game will be like. And often you don't get what was advertised.
Bottom line, I think it's the creator's choice to either create something because he wants to tell a story, or create a consumer product. The first case should pay a lot more attention to what you want to say, regardless of displeased fans. The latter should take the consumer's input in as much as they can (differentiating the "entitled" opinions, from constructive criticism, which in itself is really hard). But in the end it all comes down to the constraints of resources. Who knows how many stories would have excelled given enough time and money. You can find successful stories in both categories and everywhere in between. But it's a little different when you touch a well established "brand" of story. I'm often torn about watching reboots of stories a like, on one hand, you get the immerse yourself in the story you enjoyed so much once again with a fresh take, on the other hand, who knows what it might turn into.
I think that our generation is the one stuck in the transition to mass media. Not long ago, only stories tested by time and enjoyed by many would shine through (and that can vary, dependent on the person of course). But now days we get submerged in a tidal wave of entertainment, where pretty much everyone feels like they have an interesting story to tell. Well in my opinion, that's not the case. So it becomes harder and harder to even find the precious gems, not to mention actually enjoying it. Sometimes it feels like quantity over quality, but that goes for the consumer as well, ans often just want more and they want it right now.
Anyway, that's just my 2cents
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It seems to me that there's art, then there's interactive art. With the interactive art, it seems to me that the artist and the user must comingle ( is that a word?) in order for it's function to be fulfilled.
How many performers on stage would be upset if their audience asks for an encore after a particularly stimulating concert? How many artists have been booed off the stage? That said, no one is absolutely obliged to give the people what they want, not everyone wants a Picasso, but then Picasso was only offering one piece at a time.
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yeah, i'm aware that this whole idea of collective or collaborative storytelling has been hovering about for a while within the 'community' (i also played with it in my 'youth') but i have to say at the stage where i'm now (knowing about deception within deception and the actual stakes of the showdown in the reality game) it all seems a contradiction in itself.
the author is the 'author' (meaning not just the fancy 'creative') exactly because he or she knows something that the audience ought to know as well, or in other words they have come to perceive an agle of 'reality' that they want to share. that implies a hierarchy between the creator and the listener or viewer and there's no judgement there, but to put it in terms of the dao, it's just the way the cosmic stream of reality unfoldment has brought about and positioned us within its embrace.
that is to say, of course, we're all different, but not just in history, race or faith, but also in abilities and skills and knowledge. we change through interaction but we only 'rise' through notions that are in touch with 'utlimate reality' rather than wishful thinking or flights of fancy. it's just the way how it, and that is why writing is so pivotal to our entire experience as human beings – we arrive at our notions (whih in turn utterly determine our trajectory of overall growth) from what we have come in contact with that has previously been written (or 'left') for us!.
it's really not an easy subject and involves very high levels, i'd say. we human beings can believe and believe in anything. it's very difficult to discern, especially in a world as chaotic and multidinous as the the present. and it's even more difficult to 'trust' anyone or anythign in a world base almost entirely on self interest. even the so called 'worldwide community' adheres to psycho-mechanics of group psychology and will 'like' what confirms their existing group canon and 'dislike' everything and everyone that challenges it.
anyway. nice to be called back to deviantart by an email telling me that i'm owed money from prints that i've sold. i did enjoy being here and i did love meeting everyone that i'd met.
also everything that you've done, both as a community, as well as by pulling the strings behind the scenes with an architectural design and a conceptual creation, is awesome. perhaps will be here more often again?
lol,
r.
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