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tigerfangart — Cyclops and Wolverine: 'Hypocrisy in Action and q
Published: 2012-01-17 20:31:59 +0000 UTC; Views: 1248; Favourites: 5; Downloads: 18
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One of the things that just bothers me about the Regenesis thing with the X-Men is how much of a raging hypocrite it turns Wolverine into. How can anybody think that he's the right man to keep teenagers safe? His freakin' HOBBY is dragging teenage girls into danger.Related content
Comments: 45
I don't get it didn't wolverine's sidekicks choose to go despite him saying no?
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Doesn't matter if he now all of a sudden believes they should never be in combat ever no matter what even if they're fighting for their own right to survive. He still allowed teenagers to fight with him in the past, the sudden change in opinion is hypocritical.
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Logan and Beast's hypocrisy aside I think wolverine's team is getting back on track. Scott strategies recently have been lackluster at best IMO.
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Lackluster? I'd have to disagree. There was nothing lackluster about the Mister Sinister thing. Cyclops managed to talk down the Celestials. That ain't lackluster.
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I was refering to having Magneto in a postion of power since his heel face turns doors are a revolving door. As well as keeping information from Hope thinking without it she can control the Pheonix force. I may have read it wrong though.
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You have to recall that Scott Summers is a desperate man. There are less mutants on Earth than there are in a college lecture hall class, and now thanks to Wolverine, that incredibly small population is now splintered.
Scott's primary goal is just to make sure that mutantkind survives, and that happens to be Magneto's goal too. So for now, it works. But you know that Scott has contingencies in play for if/when Magneto betrays him.
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To be fair Each Mutant picked thier own side. So I wouldn't put all the blame on Wolverine.
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But he made the split. He was the one who insisted on everybody breaking up to begin with.
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I think Most members would've left on thier own. I'm actually suprised the shcism didn't happen sooner. If were going to talk hypocrisy what about Scott and Hank's?
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Oh, Hank's a total hypocrite. He and his girlfriend Agent Brand murdered Forge, and then he's all up in arms about X-Force, a secret X-Men kill squad, so he goes and joins the Secret Avengers, a secret Avengers kill squad (until Remender showed up and said "no, no killing anymore.").
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Beast killed forge why?
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Um.... because Warren Ellis is really the only reason I can think of. I mean... he wanted the X-Men to help him stop a threat from the Ghost Box and Hank and Agent Brand opted instead to blow up Forge and the Ghost Box and his entire base instead.
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Ok read forge's wiki and I still don't get it. The only reasoning I got out of it was Forge is crazy. What the hell is a ghost box?
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Some kind of otherdimensional portal thing. It was really weird, and... well, it was Warren Ellis, so... yeah, that explains a lot.
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This is even more confusing then Bishop's heel turn. Any Thoughts on AVX?
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I think if this is what Marvel thinks is a new idea, then they're in creative trouble.
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Yeah they need to stop the crossovers for awhile. allright getting back to Schism I'm curious who do you think Nightcrawler,Banshee,Jean Grey,and Stacy X would've sided with. Would you agree with me that Scott is the midpoint between Magneto and Xavier's first split?
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I would say that Scott is traversing the road that has to be traversed considering the dire situation mutantkind now finds itself in. I don't think he likes it, and I don't think it rests well on his conscience, but when you are trying to make sure that less than 200 people are trying to survive a world that is trying to murder them at every single turn, you may have to make some hard choices. That is what he has done. He has made the hard choices, and they have kept the few remaining mutants alive.
As for Nightcrawler - I think he would have walked away from all of it, frankly. He was clearly disturbed by Logan and Laura's willingness to kill in the beginning of Second Coming, and I can't see him staying back with Scott's crew on Utopia. He may have been with the group Dazzler was supposed to have been heading up, as Cyclops mentioned in the Regenesis One-Shot - just doing hero stuff in San Francisco.
Banshee - the man founded X-Corps. He'd stick with Cyclops.
Jean - hard to say. It's entirely likely that were Jean still alive, the roles would have been reversed - with Logan being the hard-edge and Scott being the one wanting to reinstate the school.
Stacy - seeing as how she had lost her powers at M-Day, I don't think she really had much of a say in the matter even if she survived New Warriors.
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Interesting thoughts.
I think Nightcrawler would of tried to prevent the schism since he was friends to both of them. I hope some at Marvel ressurects him. He deserves More than a shock death. (I hatebShock deaths for Main Characters)
I guess banshee might side with Scott but X-corps blow up in his face thanks to Mystique so that leaves some doubt in my mind.
Stacy X is alive and repowered as of vengeance. I ask about her because she was close to both Logan,and Warren at one point and they were on different sides before the dark angel saga I think(Not sure on that one)
How do you think Scott would feel about Genesis?
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Maybe. But what good would that have done, really?
Well, X-Corps blew up in his face because he trusted the wrong people.
And I had no idea about Stacy. I can't imagine her wanting to go to a school, though.
Genesis is what? That Apocalypse kid in W&TXM? I have no idea because I just cannot bring myself to read that God-awful book. Every time I've thumbed through an issue I've put it back on the shelf in disgust.
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I'm going to make a bold statement I think there would've been a chance for the X-men to stay united since Kurt was the heart of the X-men. Form a marketing stand point if you still had the Schism you could Start a New Excalibur series.
I just bring it up because at the end it seemed he regretted X-corps.
I like that book Genesis is a clone of Apocalypse named Evan sabnur engineered by Fantomex and raised to be a virtual superman that's not a joke either.
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Maybe, but the Schism didn't entirely make sense from a character standpoint since it was a forced editorial decision.
And give Jason Aaron some time, and he'll make Apocakid a joke. He managed to take the end of the Dark Angel Saga and used that to turn Warren into a joke. The entire W&TXM book is a joke, as well. He'll find a way.
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Yeah i hate editorial mandates they usually screw up the book.
I'll concede Warren's been a joke since it clear they essentially have no idea what to do with him. I've got to disagree with you about the whole book I like W&TXM becuse it brought back some fun in instead of constant angst. Still to each thier own.
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To me, there's a difference between "fun" and "The X-Men's greatest nemesis is a twelve year old boy with money". I refuse to accept that as anything but a very ,very ,very bad joke.
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Yeah I don't take the hellfire kids seriously either. Still there are some classic x-men villians returning like Sabertooth and the Brood. I would also recomend checking out the new Scarlet Spider series. I also doubt the hellfire kids are going to stop harassing cycke's side.
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I've been reading Scarlet Spider.
And I don't think the Hellfire Kids will show up outside of anything Jason Aaron's writing. Let him keep his own special brand of stupid in his own specially stupid book, I say. I'll stick with the book that uses Mr. Sinister and Unit and whatnot.
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What do you think of Scarlet Spider so far?
I personally like wolverine and the X-men bu to each thier own.
Read AVX round one and both sides seem to be holding the idiot ball.
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I love Scarlet Spider. It's really nice to see a Marvel superhero book take place in someplace that isn't New York. And what better place for a Spider-Man clone to go than a city with a Mayor Parker? :-D
I've tried to get into WATXM, I have, because I like Kitty Pryde and I like Bobby Drake. But Jason Aaron is just doing too many ridiculously stupid things with the stories and the characters for my liking. I'm okay with an X-Book having humor in it, but I'm not okay with an X-Book being a joke.
And yeah, AvX is pretty weak so far, but hey - it's Bendis. He doesn't care who a character is, he doesn't care what a character is supposed to do - if he wants to do something in a story, he will sacrifice the character's personality and history to do it.
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Yeah Scarlet Spider is great.
That's fair I read some of uncanny but it just doesn't feel like the X-men it feels too millitant too me. I think Scott makes a beter field leader than nation leader.
Yeah I think Scott and Steve are both holding the idiot ball in AvX.
quick question during regenesis couldn't they have retreated to Atlantis or am I missing something?
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I don't know about it being excessively militant. It's very superhero as far as I can tell. Me, I like it because it takes the crappy situation that Marvel put the X-Books in waaaay back in House of M and makes the best out of it. That's the main problem with the books these days, it's that M-Day stole the X-Men's purpose away from them. If you have the X-Men clinging to the dream when there's less than 200 mutants compared to 7 billion humans, that just makes them idiotic. The only option that makes sense any more is to try to survive at any cost. To try and reactivate the mutant gene so that they have a purpose again. And Uncanny focuses on that.
As far as retreating to Atlantis, seeing as how Utopia and Atlantis are intricately connected and intertwined, they're kinda the same locale.
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Well I haven't seem them deal with someone who can be reasoned with so I may be jumping the gun. I disagree that they're idoitic for trying to still trying to help the dream as it would help thier survival.
Thank you for helping me on the Atlantis thing. I thought they were just allies.
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Clinging to the dream never helped them before, when their numbers were in the millions. When they're down so low, it's just a fool's hope and you need to prioritize. It becomes silly when you stick to "I hope that some day, humankind can live at peace with these 200 people with super powers. All 7 billion of you."
And no problem.
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I'm not saying that they don't need to survive I just don't see why there is no room for both.
besides WATXM and UncannyX-men what is your opinion of the X-books?
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X-Factor is the best character-driven storytelling Marvel is publishing and I feel like more people should read it.
I tried to get into Christos Gage's X-Men Legacy, but it was awful. I really think he's burnt out as a storyteller because his once-incredible Avengers Academy has become awful as well.
Victor Gischler's X-Men lost me due to his obsession with vampires. I have never liked vampires, and the Vampubilee thing is aggressively annoying.
I have no interest in reading the Team Wolverine stuff since both WATXM and Legacy have left me cold and I haven't heard anything good about Marjorie Liu's Astonishing X-Men.
And I tried to read Uncanny X-Force, but I could not get past that God-awful artwork in the Captain Britain storyline.
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I haven't read X-factor.
Legacy I think suffers from being to focused on Rogue and her forced relationship with Magneto.
Yeah the vampire thing kind of turned me away too.
Well there will be a diffrent artist for Uncanny X-force at Issue 24 this is after the Captain Britain arc. So iwould recomend starting there if it was just the artwork puting you off.
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Well if you think that a tragedy like this is not enough for change the point of view of a person then i cannot argue about this anymore. And something else, Kitty was assigned as Logan's student from Xavier himself and when her and Logan went to their first mission together Logan locked her in the Blackbird for not getting hurt. And before the beginning of the X-Force Logan fight with Scott for getting Laura, James, Rahne and Elixir involved. So his stance is not something new
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Agree to disagree, then. And for the record, Scott had nothing to do with Elixir's (the youngest and most inexperienced member of that team) involvement with X-Force. Wolverine was the one who decided to put him on the team when Josh opted to get his memories erased rather than stop what they were doing.
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I said "manipulated" not "brainwashed". The story was like this: the RRH seperated Wolverine's soul from his body and send him in Hell. When Logan eventually returned and regained controll of his body he sook revenge against them and the RRH send 5 assasins to fight him. Wolverine killed them but it turn over that they were his own children that he did not know he had during his long life. So you think after all that his behavior during the schism is hypocritic.
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Yes. I do. Because he'd spent years gleefully charging into battle alongside teenage girls and now all of a sudden, he's opposed to it so violently that he's willing to blow up all of Utopia?
The one thing has absolutely nothing to do with the other.
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Actually is not hypocrisy at all. Wolverine was manipulated by the Red Right Hand to kill his children (that never knew their existance) just before the schism. So after a trauma like it's clear why he took that stance during the event
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I don't think that makes it any less hypocritical. Being brainwashed into killing people is different than having a sudden aversion to allowing teenagers to fight for their lives.
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It also doesn't help that the X-Men have been deploying teenagers to fight since their INCEPTION!
I managed to do a better take of the Schism event than Jason Aaron, and I'm going to do a second version.
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