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tornrose24 In reply to Tete-DePunk [2015-04-20 04:55:26 +0000 UTC]

The storyline of Twilight Princess is actually pretty good. When I think about it, it does carry themes of being selfless, the dangers of wielding power (or believing you are powerful and invincible.) and how hatred can corrupt a person. 
To me, Zant was like that in the game: the twili's ancestors were banished to the twilight realm, out of the realm of Hyrule, and he resented the twill Royal family and everyone else for not 'having the faintest hint of desire.' If one has played Ocarina of Time and Wind Waker- and understood Ganondorf's background as a result- it's easy to see why he took the chance to take over when he could. Midna was the opposite- she didn't care what happened to Hyrule in her own per suits, but she was able to push aside her selfishness and possibly get over her own hatred (which seemed to be hinted at.)
You are also correct in being reminded of Ghirahim when it comes to Zant: on first glance, both seem rather calm, and arrogant on first glance, but if nothing is going in their favor, they will drop their masks and become wild and insane. (Or, in Ghirahim's case you... well, let's just say you get a good show, just before you fight him and if you are staring, he would love it.)
Both are also unpleasant when it comes to henchmen- it's implied that Zant cursed many of the twill into the creatures that work for him, in addition a few of the residents of Hyrule (which Link may, or may not have killed.) and not only had Ghirahim once knowingly sent a horde of monsters to their deaths to accomplish his own goals, but he hints that he had to vent out his anger on them when nothing was going his way.
Finally, Zant and Ghirahim are almost the complete opposites to Midna and Fi (Link's companions)- there's hints early in both games, and I can't spoil it if you haven't read into the story lines, but it's incredible. (And I wish the creators delved more into the story lines of the games, but they have a 'gameplay first' policy going on.)

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Tete-DePunk In reply to tornrose24 [2015-04-20 18:27:26 +0000 UTC]

You grasped the crux of themes contained in the Twilight Princess storyline- selflessness, the dangers of wielding power (or believing in the illusion thereof), and how hatred, resentment, and envy can corrupt even those holding the best intentions, such as Zant.

Here is where Midna succeeded where Zant failed. Because she was able to put aside her own hatred/prejudice against Hyrule, she was able to bridge the rift (to some degree) between Twili and Hyrule. Midna's development and growth in the story was exceptional to watch.

One cannot fault Zant entirely for his actions. Because he allowed his own hatred to consume him, he grew blind, and in growing blind, he became corrupted and susceptible to being controlled by a baleful entity as Ganondorf. As you mentioned, even Ganondorf's actions can be explained in the backgrounds of OoT and WW. The culpablity lies in how they allowed their actions to have dire consequences and employed violence and oppression as means to justify the ends.

Superficially, both Zant and Ghirahim appear to calm, arrogant, even suave. (Well, in Ghirahim's case, at least.) Both are deluded by an obstinate sense of vanity and an overestimation of the full extent of their powers and appeal.  And as you pointed, both are willing to exploit their minions for Pyrrhic victories.  Both are also emotionally unstable as well.

You are right- both Zant and Ghirahim are the opposites to Midna and Fi. While I have yet to delve further into watching the cutscenes and gameplay of Skyward Sword, Fi's role and character is certainly intriguing.

Say, Rebecca, do you know of any book guides for LoZ titles sch as Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword? Or any other guides for the franchise in particular? Like the guides for anime series? Do these exist for the LoZ franchise?

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tornrose24 In reply to Tete-DePunk [2015-04-20 21:44:23 +0000 UTC]

I'm afraid there aren't any book guides for TP or SS (There is Hyrule Historia, but it doesn't have enough to offer since it acts as a 'history text book.' in that regard/)
It's so crazy, but Zant IS almost exactly like Ganondorf. Ganondorf came from an all female tribe (who only allows one man to rule over them every 100 years.): considering their background, that they are said to seek out mates in Hyrule, and where they live, it's easy to see the beginnings of Ganondorf's resentment towards the Hylians. The Twill are similar to the Gerudo (and I have a theory that many of the Gerudo were sent into the twilight realm, which would explain why Midna looks different from the others in her true form) so, out of all the possibilities, this could have been how it was easy for Ganondorf to further corrupt Zant.
It would be a lot of fun to talk more about Ghirahim (who is one of the series greatest, and dangerous villains- in my opinion.) but I will save that for another time.
I think I'm one of the few people who tolerates Fi- I like her as a character because she is, almost literally, the iconic Master Sword itself, and it was interesting to see who this being was, and she changed just who that weapon that was first seen in A Link to the Past was. (And since ALttP was the first Zelda game I knew about, and that to pull out the Master Sword would be wondrous, it does further a personal connection to the games.)
I think if you get around to looking into Skyward Sword and watching the gameplay and cutscenes, I think you would like the storyline. It has themes like perseverance (especially concerning both Link and Ghirahim) fate- and facing it, despite what it may mean- and the story shows that even gods can be flawed, despite their best intentions, and may even forget the most important issues in their plans. It also has a rather chilling reason as to why the conflict between Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf are destined to forever fight.
It also offers an answer to what a positive version of power should be: to not only be able to develop one's own strength, but use that strength to persevere (which, ironically, goes hand in hand with courage, if used correctly.)
Concerning the Triforce, I was hit with an amazing realization: it's Hyrule's own Forbbiden Fruit and is the greatest temptation for causing sin in the world. It's insane just how much religious parallel there is to Zelda! (Which is implied to have it's own Devil, among things.)

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Tete-DePunk In reply to tornrose24 [2015-05-04 21:26:35 +0000 UTC]

Rebecca, please pardon the tardy reply.

For some time, I have heard about the Hyrule Historia- is it also an art book by any chance? Given the series breath-taking designs, it would seem apropos if an art book (or a series thereof) were released.

Thank you immensely for the background concerning Ganondorf and Zant's similarities. As you mentioned, there are striking commonalities between these two. Perhaps these parallels foster their collaboration, but also foreshadow their gradual rise, descent, and ultimately, demise, because both allowed corruption to taint their otherwise logical and reactionary motivations.

Your theory regarding the Twili might originate from banished Gerudo members is very intriguing. If you wish, I should very much appreciate if you could expound your theory.

Certainly! Ghirahim exudes a certain quality- elegantly poised, but affected with his own incurable vanity. Deceptive, cunning, something of a sociopathic Stepford Smiler. For some reason, his sly nature reminds one a good deal of the earlier Rumplestiltskin from ABC's Once Upon A Time.  One could say Ghirahim shows traits of a High Machiavellian, but he is ultimately motivated by his master, Demise, hence he only employed Machiavellian methods to achieve serving his master- as opposed to the absolutely Nihilistic stand a genuine Machiavellian would resort to.

What? You mean Fi is not well received by many LoZ fans? Personally, she is one of my favorites from what little I've watched of the cutscenes. Characters as familiars, aids, and guides are among my favorites, including those who are the spiritual personification of a sacred weapon, much like the Zanpakuto in the Bleach series. Also, her loyalty and composure endear her as well.

You are absolutely right, Rebecca. Upon closer (and thoughtful) examination, the Legend of Zelda series contains a remarkable depth of religious, philosophical, and spiritual allusions and presents its own worldview and universal truth.

Thanks to you and Andrew, I have become a huge fan of the series, and I would be indebted to you if we could discuss more about the series, and the entire religious, philosophical and spiritual connotations woven throughout each work and character.

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tornrose24 In reply to Tete-DePunk [2015-05-04 23:14:23 +0000 UTC]

It would be fun to do an analysis on the connection between the Twili and the Gerudo here on deviant art (I do not own a blog, but still...)
Fi is not well recieved by fans because of her role as the 'support character.' Link always has a certain companion in this game and often they are especially connected to the game's theme or mechanic. Most of them have a tendency to tell you information that you already know, and you might not be able to skip it (especially if you've played the same game more than once.) Those who tend to be more verbal about this are thus considered annoying, such as Navi from Oot, while others like Midna are pardoned because they have a more active role in the game and will not provide too much gameplay information upon you.
Fi, sadly, falls into the 'Navi' category because she will tell you what you are likely to deduce or repeat what you already know. The other downside is that there was a lost potential from not being more active in the storyline (I can not say what it is, but it concerns something rather shocking in Skyward Sword that adds to the mythos of the Master Sword.)
However, it is undeniable  that her appearance to the Master Sword attracted lots of attention when the first artwork came out. She may not have the emotion that Midna does, but it's clear that she and Link has a special bond as companions, and when she dances it IS rather lovely to watch.
I'm also fond of her theme. This music number from the game incorporates her theme, as if to say that she is as happy as Link was in this moment (which is important since she is normally seen as this stoic, robotic being, devoid of any emotion.) It's one of my favorite musical numbers from SS:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFvequ…
(don't read the comments, because some of them have spoilers.)
I'm afraid I am the wrong person to give her justice without entering the spoiler territory.
The Hyrule Historia contains beautiful concept artwork and ideas of 'what could have been' (some of the artwork for Skyloft portrays it in a sort of Gaudi style) and some of the ideas are worth chuckling over. There's also a 'prequel' manga in the back to Skyward Sword which I'm sure you would adore for it's storyline.
Just for the fun of it, I'm also including this from SS: The way this song was done is incredible because it's a song a lot of the fans have grown up with and it now has this sense of timelessness, awe, and anticipation for adventure. It was given the treatment it rightfully deserves. www.youtube.com/watch?v=mxOMCH…

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Tete-DePunk In reply to tornrose24 [2015-05-07 18:44:04 +0000 UTC]

If you ever post an analysis of the Twili and Gerudo theory, please link it to me, please?

I understand the general dislike of Navi, though it appears Fi should hold similar or equal ground with Midna. Fi, as you explained, is the spiritual personification of the sword. But she is also her own person who realizes her own duty and role in the fabric of fate and to save the future.

Thank you immensely for the musical pieces! One aspect that is particularly striking about the LoZ series is the lush, symphonic pieces its scores include. Ethereally breath-taking!

Ah! A Skyward Sword manga? Goodness, I am ectsatic that exists! Are there other manga prequels or adaptations in the LoZ canon?

Rebecca, thank you ever so much for the links and the detailed explanations. As someone who has gradually grown into a LoZ fan, you and Andrew have been instrumental in mentoring me in this field. Thank you again.

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