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Totentanz0 — Nazi Victory Map -PART 1-
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Published: 2010-09-29 21:50:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 53403; Favourites: 137; Downloads: 1321
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Nazi Victory Map--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
www.mediafire.com/view/wwhan1n…
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Comments: 57
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Can you please give me a staf, which you used to use in your maps?
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Especially the second.
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This scenario is unrealistic. I highly doubt that the Germans would try to hold all of Europe like that or invade America.
Here is a more likely German victory map of Europe: www.valtakunta.eu/eurooppa/kar…
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Trust me, you are not the first one to point it out! This map is not from an alternate-history scenario. It’s just a somewhat maximalist collection of Nazi aims. It’s more cumulative than speculative…
I knew that site. I can’t read Finnish so I just basically looked at the maps. Their interactive map is delightful. I expecially appreciated the enlarged Ostland and the Gotenland. I have to say that I’d personally prefer the Somme-Geneva line as the new border between France and Germany. And in case of Italian capitulation, which I suppose in this case, I’m usually expecting to see the annexation of OZAV & OZAK. I also believe that the correct new German name for Sevastopol should be TheodErichshafen and not TheodOrichshafen, Theoderic the Great being called Theoderich der Große in German.
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Great Map
The another map is not easy to understand. (the Finnish map). But the name of Sevastopol was really Theoderichshafen
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I love the details you uncover and then put onto these maps. I really wish someone could compile all of the Nazi's plans and such like you post and make a huge reference book about it.
I don't particularly care about the Nazi's, but the things they did, the reasons why, and all their plans have and always will intrigue me until I read it all
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I would buy that book!
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I think your next project for this series (if you're looking for one that is) could be the Nazi's "successfully" implenting the Atlantropa Project.
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AFAIK the project Atlantropa wasn’t particularly popular among the Nazis (apart from “The Man in the High Castle” ones).
Not to mention that for me it would take ten times as long to get to the Adriatic Sea!
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True, but it does suit National Socialism very well. It's so ridiculous and the benefits are miniscule compared to the cost of implementing it, plus the chances of it actually working are variable to say the least.
Suits the Nazi's down to the ground!
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I dislike the Nazis and hate their crimes, but I think I can not agree that you say the german engineers, scientists and architects of that time were dumb or stupid.
Even the Nazis overtook the society and the country, the Germans were since the 19th century of the most creative and intelligent people Europe had, and the date 1933, didn´t make idiots from all of them.
And it´s sad, that most people don´t know why the Germans followed Hitler, it was not because of racism, but because of all the crisis and the chaos caused by the french dictate of versailles after the first world war.
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I never said German engineers, scientists or architects were dumb or stupid.
I said the Nazi's (as in the German political and military leadership from 1939-45) were dumb or stupid.
Yes, I realise there's a difference, I've been posting historical stuff on this site long enough that you should know I can differentiate between Germans as a whole from 1933-45, and members of the National Socialist German Workers Party.
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Ok sounded to me like you think they all were dumb, because to be member of the Nazi party did not automatically mean you are an evil racist, many people had to be member, to get higehr positions or just to work on, some people became even members without knowing it, for example many soldiers in the war didn´t even know, that they were made members in the homeland.
But I see I did you missunderstand
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Ok sounded to me like you think they all were dumb, because to be member of the Nazi party did not automatically mean you are an evil racist, many people had to be member, to get higehr positions or just to work on, some people became even members without knowing it, for example many soldiers in the war didn´t even know, that they were made members in the homeland.
But I see I did you missunderstand
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Nazi would have won if they would have followed steps...
1- Nazi-Soviet Non Aggression should have been respected.
2- After taking over most of Europe (except UK) Nazis call for Armistice with USA/UK. English Channel becomes "Militarized Zone".
3- Nazis gain Arabs as Economic Allies.
4- Breakage of Alliance with Japanese Empire (left to fight alone with USA)
5- WW2 Ends early
6- Nazis get Nuclear Weapons (no using, show of force only) maybe?...
7- Empire grows ECONOMICALLY...
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mein gott!!!!!!
Deutsch Geschichte in einer ganzen Reihe von Wörtern Format!
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Mind if I use this for something? I need a well detailed map like this for a project I'm working on.
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Hey, I need your help. I kinda lost about few things.
What are terms for these areas:
*Germany and areas to Alsace-Lothringen and Lithuania
*Those areas plus Reichostland up to the Ural Mountains
*Those areas plus Mittelafrika and other colonies
I'm confused between "Greater Germany", "Greater German Reich", and"Greater Germanic Empire" (if there is such term)
Thanks!
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Interesting question! Ok. First of all, this nomenclature is pretty fluid. This is my personal understanding of it:
-Altreich ("Old Reich"): territories of Nazi Germany before 1938 (before the annexation of Austria, Sudeten, etc...)
-Großdeutsches Reich ("Greater German Reich"): Altreich plus distinctly ethnic German territories outside of it (Austria, Sudeten, Alsace, some parts of Poland, etc...). "Etnic German" is itself an ambiguous term and surely the Nazis could have extended it as they liked. But you get the basic idea.
-Großgermanisches Reich {Deutscher Nation} ("Greater Germanic Reich {of the German nation}"): previous territories plus those areas of Europe that could be claimed to be Germanic for some reason. This can be easily visualized looking at Germanic speaking areas (other than the previously strictly "German" speaking areas), such as the Netherlands, Flanders, Norway, Sweden, Danemark... Great Britain is usually excluded. Or, more consistently, places with a "Germanic" history or ancient "Germanic" blood, which include also parts of France that were under Frankish, Burgundian or Norman domination or Northern Italy. I usually consider to-be-Germanized-Eastern-Europe/Asia (but not Siberia) as an extention of this sphere. The Mittelafrikanisches Kolonialreich plus maybe Neudeutschland in Brasil, the Dutch East Indies ond other colonies could be added to any of these terms. But they were to be external territories, to be exploited but not, in the near future, to be extensively populated by Aryans.
-There is an also an interesting quotation from Himmler that apparently extends this never ending Nazi matryoshka doll. Of course, you can find it in one of my "references pages" ([link] ) :
"Against the background of these dangers, he argued, it was imperative to ‘take the road upwards’ and not stop at the creation of a’Greater German Reich’. ‘After the Greater German Reich comes the Germanic Empire, and next the Germanic-Gothic Empire all the way to the Urals, and then perhaps even the Gothic-Frankish-Carolingian Empire. The Reich Leader SS believed that we actually had a claim to that; the others simply had not noticed it yet."
So we could add:
-Germanisch-Gotisches Reich ("Germanic-Gothic Empire"): Everything to the Urals (or to any other eastern border they wanted). The use of Gothic is probably to reclaim those areas that were under "ancient Ostrogothic domination". The same eritage was used as an excuse to annex southern Ukraine (Gotengau).
-Gotisch-Fränkisch-Karolingisches Reich ("Gothic-Frankish-Carolingian"): Everything plus rump France? I don't really know...
The ultimate step, as usual from Himmler, is the:
-Germanisches Weltreich (Germanic World Empire): do I really need to explain this?
Hope it helps.
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I can't reply this because your explanation is just too precious
I've save it!
Thanks!
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Nazis from todays generation exist some places of the world there is a known gang in Sydney I believe a movie was made about it
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Well, the information is very good. I think it needs writed references, if someone has problems with the links. And the map is very good too, but it needs something more (I can´t explain myself). Very good work.
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Thanks!
I'm not sure I understand your suggestion. Are you suggesting me to add more references, especially for the linked material? I thought that having 3 monstrous pages of references was going to be annoyingly long, go figure! (^_~)
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Did you find all these books on your own, or find the references on various sites?
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I don’t actually own every book listed. I do own some of them, for example: Visions of Victory: The Hopes of Eight World War II Leaders; Hitler's War Aims, Ideology, the Nazi State and the Course of Expansion; Hitler’s War Aims, the establishment of the New Order; The memoirs of Doctor Felix Kersten; Hitler's Table Talk 1941-1944 (Italian version); Fascism's European empire: Italian occupation during the Second World War (Italian version). Most of the others should be totally or partially readable online (for example on Google Books).
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I'm favoriting this in hopes that I would eventually read that, but I doubt it. sorry, but still your welcome for the fave.
Suggestion: make the desc. shorter
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Thank you for the fave.
I'm sorry, but the description is probably only getting longer, the text being a collection of quotes. It's not an alternate universe fiction by me (I authored only the first two lines!). :-P
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MITTELAFRIKA!! Maybe in this timeline the Angel's Lance space elevator truly built on top of Mount Kenya or Kilimanjaro
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Thank you very much for the links! The first map is very interesting (for the 2° one, I'm not very much into post-punk music... ...just joking 
About your future project... Wow. I'm already a fan of it! It's always so difficult to find reliable sources and maps about this topic and a coprehensive site would be painfully amazing! I'm totally looking forward to see it.
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Okay, answering your questions in order:
- Yes I do.
- Yes, quite a lot.
- I got them from Rosenberg’s work on eastern administrative planning, much of which has been charted before (although few of it provided online). This easily available map depicts the absolute earliest of his revisions, and shows both Ural and West-Siberia (situated in between Ural, Muscovy, Turkestan, Tannu-Tuva, and the Yenisei river).
[link]
- No, just a curious fellow.
- That’s my intention. I’m still in the process of doing research and gathering the necessary information, but eventually (sometime next year probably) I’ll get down to producing an entire series of maps depicting the type of world that these people tried to create and hosting it on a new website. Accuracy takes time I'm afraid.
PS: See this and scroll down to the relevant passage on South Africa.
[link] (Nazism)
PPS: A wise assessment. You need to remember that institutions such as the Generalgouvernement or the Reichskommissariats were ultimately just transitional in nature, as they were intended to be completely and directly integrated into the Nazi state. Furthermore, it's actually the entire gist of Nazism: because its racial expansionism had no ideological limits to it there is no logical end-result for it other than total victory or total defeat. If the policies that Hitler’s political party had set out would have continued unabated for decades to come, the present world would be completely dominated by an inhumanly cruel and nightmarishly totalitarian super-state.
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Wow! There's so much information out there! And isn't always easy to differentiate reliable sources from rumor.
I'll try to find the "Selling War: The British Propaganda Campaign Against American "Neutrality" book.
Do you have the real boundaries of Ural and West-Sibirien? Do they look extremely different from mine? Is there a chance to find a map showing them in Internet? Am I a stalker?
Seriously, have you ever thought about creating a similar Nazi-Victory speculative map? You seem to be very well informed about this topic I bet it would look amazing.
PS: Do you have any information about plans regarding South Africa?
PSS: Sometimes I've the distinct feeling that, to represent the real territorial claims of the Third Reich, I should have made a plain grey map...
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I know - I was the one who put most of that information online. I do actually have the exact boundaries of Ural and West-Siberia. The two Nordlands are the ones that are really hard to find any accurate information on.
Re: South America: Read "Selling War: The British Propaganda Campaign Against American "Neutrality" in World War II" by Nicholas John Cull, as it goes into detailed length on the origins of both the real map and that British forgery. To sum up the real proposed political changes:
* Argentina and Brazil expand pretty much the the same way there as they do here;
* New Spain is pure fiction;
* The larger states of South America such as Peru, Venezuela, and Colombia aren't just gobbled up by other countries.
On top of that, Hitler also seemed to be interested in the prospect of establishing future German colonies in Argentina after reading a book on the matter that piqued his interest ("Auswanderungs-Möglichkeiten in Argentinien"). According to Hermann Rauschning (a very dubious source, to put it mildy) he also vowed that the Nazi government would create a 'New Germany' for itself in Brazil.
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