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UnicornReality — We wont go back
Published: 2006-12-09 20:43:31 +0000 UTC; Views: 4606; Favourites: 119; Downloads: 45
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Hello.
These are my views and my views alone. Yours may be different and I understand that.
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Comments: 331
I had to read the comments to get the stamp...
All in favour of choice!
(also: good lord god my heart goes out to any woman in that desperate situation... doesn't bear thinking..)
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[link] <---- really bad diagram right there. Don't click if you've just eaten.
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I don't think anyone would wait 23 weeks before aborting. Its probably more of a hassle as opposed to when its a little embryo and easy to get out.
Its not as bad as childbirth though. XD
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Bad argument.
That's a picture of an illegal procedure ([link] ).
And if you're trying to win the "isn't this greusome" contest, the stamp wins hands down.
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fine, you want a legal procedure? here's one: [link]
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Its no worse than how the animals look in slaughterhouses, prior to being chopped up and turned into meat.
Do you eat meat?
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Yeah that's icky. Wire hanger is still worse.
I don't think we're really arguing the same thing here.
You say "look how gross and horrible abortion is."
I'm not saying it isn't, and I don't want to speak for Hanratty-stock, but I don't think she's saying it isn't gross either. The point is, you can't make women stop having abortions. You can only make them stop having safe, sterile, health-department-regulated abortions. Legal abortions destroy fetuses. Illegal abortions risk the lives of the mothers as well. That's the point here.
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legal abortions kill and hurt women too. many times, especially with procedures such as Curettage and RU486, women have severe complications associated with the abortion. Curettage can cause severe bleeding and hemorrhage if the doctor is not exactly along the uteran wall; and being so exact is incredibly difficult. RU486 has had four deaths directly linked to it, and over 600 women have complained of complications. Other medicines are taken off the shelves after just one death. RU486 has had four. The only reason why we don't hear about these occurrences is because the media is all for people having unrestricted, non consequential sex. but that is a different subject that i won't get into here.
and yes, illegal abortions are more dangerous, but the rate of those is far less than legal ones. and i'm not saying that the illegal ones are ok, they are just as bad, maybe worse. but are a few illegal abortions worth the lives of the 4,000+ women and babies who are harmed and killed (respectively) every day?
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I have to disagree with you about the media attention. There has been a great deal of talk in the media about RU486, including two books about it than I can think of off the top of my head. Now let's set aside the fact that you seem to think only a handfull of women would have abortions if they were illegal, and look at the numbers. It's one thing to say how many people died taking the drug, but it's quite another thing to talk percentages. 100% (yes 100%) of the American women who died after taking RU486, also took the second medication (called misoprostol) intravaginally, while it is only approved by the FDA to be taken orally. Oops. Then there's the fact that since 2000, the number of fatalities in the US related to RU486 abortions has been about 1.39 in 100,000. That means that for every 100,000 women who take the drug, less than 2 of them die. I know I sound heartless saying that, but can you honestly tell me that if 100,000 women scraped their insides with wire hangers, you think that fewer than 2 of them would die? Hundreds if not thousands of them would die. And that's just one of the creative ways women have found to self-abort. Others include insertion or injection of Lysol, turpentine, or soapy water into the uterus, of course there's always poison. Small doses of foxglove, belladonna, and even opium have been used illegally to terminate pregnancies. Now I don't care if women take poisons or pump their bellies full of soap-water to terminate their pregnancies. I really don't. None of my business. But, when it comes to my loved ones. My wife. My mother. My sister. My friends. I want them to have the CHOICE to go to somewhere where the instruments are sterile and their odds of surviving are far better than they would be at home with a wire hanger.
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I understand where you are coming from and have to admit that I was not aware of the secondary detail of the Misoprostol. I have read several articles (even ones from a pro-choice view), and none have mentioned that. I have seen where some of the women had pre-existing conditions, but the second medication I have not seen. If you could give me a link to a legit article that mentions that, i would be appreciative. Besides, where do you think the women got the medicine? Who do you think told them what to do with it? Yes, the clinic doctors. Can we really trust people who do that?
I also know that women believe that their lives will be improved with the termination of their pregnancy, but is it really? 83% of women who have an abortion suffer PAS because of it. For some, it takes a while to catch up, but eventually it does. There are several reports and TV interviews that have taken place to that effect. Abortion also increases the rates of sterility among women. Furthermore, being pregnant increases the pre-cancerous cells in the breasts. If the baby is taken to term, then the milk-producing cells overpower it. However, if the woman has an abortion, there are many many more pre-cancerous cells present. This provides an increased risk for breast cancer. How can this 'choice' be helpful to them as much as accepting their responsibility as a new mother?
It is said that having the baby would 'ruin her life', and I understand where that may be the case. There may be financial issues, educational issues, or maturity/ability-to-care issues, but what about the responsibility issue? When two people have heterosexual sex, there is always the risk of pregnancy. It is the responsibility of the couple to accept the consequences of their actions, not toss them aside.
Also, at 8 weeks, a fetus can feel and respond to pain. Most women by this time have not yet had their abortion. So when the fetus is being ripped apart limb from limb by vacuum aspiration (the most common type of first trimester abortion), he or she can feel the whole thing. When the abortion is by an injection of a chemical that will stop the heart, the fetus moves away from the needle, and the doctor often has to chase it. People often speak of the woman's rights, but what of the rights of the unborn? A famous quote states, "It is a poverty that a child must die so that you may live as you wish."
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You can find the information about Misoprostol in the Wikipedia article about RU486 [link] and its authors site their sources at the bottom of the page. Mostly newspaper articles.
I really do agree with you on the responsibility issue. Many women have abortions because they don't want to face up to the consequences of their actions, and many women put themselves at needless risk. And I grant you the premise that making abortion illegal would put an end to a great deal of that. But it would also take away the option of a legal abortion from the women who desperately need one. Rape victims, and the mentally and emotionally incompetent for example. There are people out there who really have legitamite reasons for needing abortions, and wiping it out entirely would give them no recourse. Also (no offense meant) it's one thing to talk about financial issues being a small thing compared to the issue of responsibility as a 16-year-old, but when you're living paycheck-to-paycheck, an unexpected pregnancy can actually ruin your life. What would you say to the families who are forced to have the child then can't afford to feed it? In a lot of cases we're not talking about parents having to give up their digital cable, there are people out there who can't afford the rent if they have a baby.
Also, I just have trouble seeing how it's any of my business, or yours (or the government's, or the churches' for that matter) what these women do. Provided they know the risks of the procedure when they make their decision, I don't see how it's anyone's place to tell them not to.
The part about the baby feeling pain at 8 weeks sounds suspect to me. The nerve cells of the brain have just started to branch out at that point. Even this pro-life article disagrees with you [link] But, every article you read will probably give you a different age at which a fetus can feel pain, and the fact is that it's probably very hard to know for sure.
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The articles on Misoprostol, though I will have to gather more information before I can legitimately argue against those claims.
With rape victims, I understand where people think that this would help the women. And maybe it does sometimes. But a true healing would include the acceptance of what happened. By giving birth to the baby, the woman proves to herself that she can be better than the rapist (not that the woman is equal to the sick bastard, not saying that) and she can bring good out of a scarring experience. Also, even if the baby was the result of a rape, does that make him/her any less human? Rape is an extreme example of severe physical abuse. So is the occurrences of a father beating his little boy in front of the kid's mother. Does that make the boy any less human? By seeing the boy every day, the mother is reminded of the horror of her husband's actions. Should she, then, be allowed to kill the child to rid herself of the memories? No, of course not. This child is out of the womb, so we can see it and mark it with its inalienable rights. An unborn baby is still human, but we can't see it, so killing it does not seem to mean as much.
Financial issues are a severe burden to hold, and it makes sense that people think abortion is the answer to that. There are several things that are specifically designed for women in situations like these. For example, the Safe Haven Laws allow women to drop off their newborn babies at hospitals, fire stations, police stations, etc, no questions asked. The mother can still allow her baby to live, but doesn't have to worry about how the child will affect her family. Also, there are many facilities that offer free medical services for women who cannot afford to give birth. There is one of these such places a few minutes from my home called the Tepeyac Family Center. [link] The doctor has specifically told me that if a woman, regardless of her religion, for it is a Catholic-affiliated Center, needs medical services, but cannot afford them, he will pay for it all himself and work with her to get back on her feet if necessary. Also, there are many places that will give free 'gear' for the woman to care for her child. Even if she cannot afford another child, there are places ready and willing to help out.
(i would write more, but i have to leave. i will continue later)
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Fucking brilliant stamp.
Im not going to get into a protracted discourse of the perceptions of 'right or wrong' based upon societal standards but I WILL say that, having -been- someone denied choice once, that I would defend the right to -choose- till the day I die.
And it is that. The right to CHOOSE that I support wholeheartedly. If you choose not to terminate, then good for you. If you choose to terminate, then respect yourself enough to do it properly.
No. We will never go back.
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Am I the only person who saw this as a Mommie Dearest joke? 8D
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haha yeah, I saw that and thought "No wire hangers!"
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Hee~ Can't beat the classics... But you can beat your adopted children. n_n
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My honest "Huh?" and "On second thought, spare me the details."
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^^ The details are gory and yucky.
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Just to clear up my last comment for anybody who reads this.... I'm not getting into a pro-abortion/pro-life fight... but my personal stand is that abortion is murder. I understand why women would choose abortion... I've been pregnant and have felt all the fears and depression that comes with it. But I still feel that an embrio or fetus is a life, and being a mother, I'd much rather see the child born and given away, than never born at all. But like I said, I don't want a fight... those is just my choice. I would never hold up signs and yell at women who work or go to an abortion clinic. That's just wrong as well.
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its nice to see that even though you stand by your opinion you are open to the knowledge that everyone else has the right to thier own opinion 
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Yeah... as the quote goes, "to each his own"
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Although I understand the rights, I think the coat hanger is a really bad symbol since if women are in a position where they choose abortion, I would never want to see them try to perform it on themselves! Go to a clinic please!
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We had to watch a video once about this woman who used a coathanger.
Just thinking of it makes me cross my legs and want to vomit. It was horrific.
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I understand being desperate, but women need to know that trying to perform abortions yourself can lead to your own sickenss and possible death! It just scares me that women are that depressed and desperate. I want to reach out and help them, but I know that I can't.
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It is an awful thought that a woman would go as far as a coat hanger or, worse in my opinion, a knitting needle. 
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I've heard of women puposefully hitting themselves in the stomach too. ouch
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