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Published: 2011-03-15 03:19:51 +0000 UTC; Views: 6021; Favourites: 245; Downloads: 38
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Okay. Lemme explain.Watch out. Textwall.
Hunting is cruel!
No, it really isn't that cruel. In most scenarios, the animal dies quickly and barely feels a thing. Most of the time the meat is used, occasionally the fur, rarely the bones. Not to mention that if it's not used, it decomposes and adds nutrients to the soil. Not to mention it can feed scavengers that come across it. Either way it's a benefit. Not to mention, when compared to meat farms, it's a lot better - the animal gets to live it's life how it naturally should and it has a very good chance of not being shot.
People only hunt for profit!
Holy crap... Anyone who thinks that the only reason people hunt is for profit obviously don't know anything about hunting. When you go hunting, you need many things. To name a few:
Camouflage Clothes
Hiking Boots (Good quality ones)
Food
Knife
Gun or Bow
Ammo or Arrows (You should have enough for your entire time)
Tags,
ect.
Then, when you spend all that money and get what you want, you still have to take the carcass to a butcher. If you want, you still have to take the pelt/head to a taxidermist. That leaves little room for profit. The only real profitable hunting is poaching.
People who hunt are nothing but stupid rednecks!
This one's a big shocker. Overuse of stereotypes, much? Not to mention in the state of Idaho, you are required to take a hunter's education course before you can get your permit. You have to take a test, pass, and take a hunting test. These people know what they're doing. Unless they're from NY. Ever heard the story about the NY Elk? Ask.
Hunting is just driving out into the forest and shooting animals from your truck!
Actually, that's illegal. You have to get out of your truck in order to shoot. You don't find very many animals by the side of the road.
People who hunt hate animals!
False-a-roonie. I live in an area surrounded by hunters. We're all hunters. I have never seen one hunter who hates the animals that they hunt. Not to mention that a portion of the money from the tags goes to the conservation of the animals.
tl;dr
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Comments: 334
That's my point, I don't see why I keep saying the same things, but yet you still ignore them.
I can sense this conversation dying...
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It took you over two weeks to reply like that?
LMAO.
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It took me two weeks to gain access to a computer, yes.
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lol!!!!!!!!
I told you not to be looking at that animal pornography ;D oh silly Pedro <3
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What? I'm not understanding what you are saying, I didn't have access to a computer, why would I of been looking at animal pornography during that time? Not only is that disgusting, and I don't even think that stuff exists, why would I be doing that? There's no gain from watching something like that. I'm not even old enough to watch porn, seriously. My names not Pedro by the way. :/
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That's how you got in trouble ;]
Well, you never told me your real name~
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I didn't get in trouble, I'm not that type of person who gets in trouble. I just haven't felt like going on the computer/ had no time to.
Well, considering the fact you have been on my profile before, my name is kinda on there. Jheila.
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I've been reading this conversation for four days now, and I have one thing to say to you dear.
Grow up, go to high school, take and pass biology, then come back to have a more convincing argument.
When you get to Biology, you learn that humans are part of something called the "ecosystem", part of nature. Hunting for us is just as natural as it is for the animals. It's an instinct we're born with and, yes, there are some who can ignore that instinct to a point of eating just fruits and veggies. But, there are others who can't.
We've evolved and grown with animals for thousands and thousands of years. The only difference between us now is the fact we've evolved with an ability to speak, give opinions, and express feelings.
Have you ever heard of a carrying capacity? That's when a population can only hold so many creatures in existence. And y'know what? Most populations don't regulate themselves out, causing over population, which leads to less land and less food for them, causing them to starve to death which, in turn, will make their predators die of starvation as well.
Whether or not you believe it, there are more prey out there then there are predators, so I think the little wolfies will be just fine, just as much as any other predator. It's the circle of life, it's what is meant in nature to happen. Hunting such as this has always been and always will be.
If you've ever lived in country places, nonrural areas, such as Montana, you would know that those can be pretty impoverish places, where people have to hunt to stay alive. You think a man will let his wife and kids starve to death? Consider this.
Put this man's aspect into that of an animal's. Or, more specifically, a carnivore or predator.
A carnivore and a man love and need meat, they both have families, cubs, kittens, babies, whatever.
They see an animal that is most likely to feed his family, to not let them starve to death, and they kill it, and use the meat to make sure his family doesn't die.
You're saying a human doesn't have the right to feed his family, but the predator does....how is that being equal to the animal life?
BUT! Here is a difference. A predator can kill wildlife any time it wants. It can kill for sport or kill for food and leave many times a day. Humans? In places where they can hunt, just to feed their families or have money to feed their families or put clothes on their backs, they have to pay for the gun, pay for registering the gun, pay for a hunting permit, and allowed either just one kill or one kill per species.
Humans aren't as cruel as you think, it's called survival of the fittest and it has been in action for all life since it was created. In fact, it'd be much more cruel if we didn't hunt them. Think of the birth rates and the death rates of these animals. As humans, we've only had it regulated until the industrial revolution, then we sky rocketed because of advances in our medicine and technology, making us live longer. Slowly, we're getting to our carrying capacity. But animals don't have those advances, yet, they have a knowledge of the land and can survive as such. Because of this, and have less predators than there are prey, their birth rates go up.
More births?
More animals.
Sounds fine right?
Wrong.
As there is a birth rate, there is a death rate. If this death rate lowers, that means that there will be more of this population. Again, sounds fine. But, the more of this population you have, the less land they will own. And the less they have, the less food they have and will slowly and painfully starve to death. Predator animals don't breed and repopulate as quickly as their prey do, so there will always be more prey than predator.
And as humans, we are at the top of the food chain. And y'know, it'd be kind of cruel to let animals starve to death like that. I love animals, I want to be a vet, but as you say, nature can help itself, and that's true. And we are part of nature, part of the biome and part of the circle of life. All other opinions (yes, they are opinions because you have yet to give solid facts on both sides of the arguement) are irrelevant.
Hunting animals for fun, for sport, leaving the carcasses. Yeah, this I dont approve of. But killing for the use of every part of the bodies for our survival and to help keep the populations down so 60 thousands more of them won't starve, yes, I do agree. Native americans hunted and used every part of an animal, the bladders for canteens, the blood for drink and ritual, the meat for food, the pelts for their homes, the bones for weapons and structures. That was something they did to survive, an instinct we all have, a fitness. If you know this term biologically, then I will be impressed.
However!
Don't also forget to take into account that while hunting these animals, they also had a great respect for them. Their Gods were based on these creatures, one they hoped and prayed to for strength and the ability to feed their families. As I said, we've grown side by side with the animals for years and years, and though we have, each of those animals and each of us know that we share the earth equally but it will always be just another day of survival of the fittest. Just as they can be prey, so can we. Animals can kill us just as much as we can kill them. Not all animals are domesticated and can be tamed.
I'm fine with your own opinion, that's great, but don't bash on hunters and wish them to hell (which you don't believe in yet you want them to go to a place you don't believe in)just because you don't feel the same as they do. You choose not to eat meat and that is your choice, others of us are different and don't feel the same as you do. As one would think of even his fellow man, one to save a thousand. If one animal can be killed by one man, they can eat and live another day and so can the thousands of animals in that species because they won't over population and have a density-dependent limiting factor such as competition for the food that they will slowly become scarce.
By the way, you say you need to keep repeating yourself because she doesn't listen to what you've written, yet I have seen her answer every one of your statements and you've ignored quite a few of her own. Before you go and judge a person for ignoring your side of the argument, make sure to read and reread your argument before posting anything so you aren't being a hypocrite.
Just act mature and stop replying because, no matter what you say, she won't change her mind and neither will you but there is no reason for you to constantly act as if you know it all and try to make her change her views. It isn't going to be anymore rude than using sarcasm and 'joking' to try and be a smart alack.
If you reply to this, I will most likely not reply to you as I am just stating my own opinion and I don't wish to be a part of the conversation between the two of you further. No matter how you word it, how you say it, whom you say it to or how much you repeat it, not everyone will agree with you and you can't force your own thoughts down their throats. Being rude and speaking before you've done your in depth research on both sides of hunting facts will get you nowhere.
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(This is the second time I'm writing this, and most likely, I won't be responding again)
Wow, just jumping into the conversation aren't you? I so want to say TL;DR, but I can't.
I didn't realize I needed to pass biology to have an opinion and share it.
Of course we are part of the ecosystem, all I ever said was that we aren't nature, not that we aren't any part of it. But still, all we do is destroy ecosystems, and then when we see what we've doe, its too late.
You do know that animals have emotion also? And that they can express it? Somewhere along the lines not being able to talk apparently makes animals expendable.
"You're saying a human doesn't have the right to feed his family, but the predator does....how is that being equal to the animal life?"
Wow, just wow. Are you sure you were following along this conversation? Because I do recall mentioning this.
So, you're saying that if you take hunting away, then we won't have any food? I guess stores and markets don't count sell food where you live then. We have billions of animals being killed in the US alone, and now apparently none of that is usable? All those lives were killed for nothing? We go and kill millions more, because the billions already killed, cut, and processed aren't enough?
"As there is a birth rate, there is a death rate."
(okay, that was bitchy of me, but seriously)
Land? What land? You mean the land that we took? These animals have barely anything compared to what they used to have! No wonder they are going over their carry compacity! And if animals can't regulate themselves, then how did they do it before humans arrived on the scene? Dinosaurs didn't die off from killing each other, before we came to many new lands the natural wildlife was doing just fine! (we learned that in 5th grade btw, any one would know what that is)
"Whether or not you believe it, there are more prey out there then there are predators"
Once again, this is elementary stuff. Food pyramids, used in like 3-2 grade I think showed this, but only about 10% available energy is given down the line, plus the fact that predators have to usually go miles before finding food, and they don;t even always catch anything! Now we are just lowering their chances, while killing them too! Great way to protect the animals guys. Still, without us even doing anything predators will still starve, even if there are more prey. Us killing them doesn't help in the long run.
I always liked the Native Americans for that reason, they respected the environment, the animals, and they had no other way to obtain meat.
Animals usually only kill people as a sign of desperation, curiosity, or confusion. (not to mention disease)
I use the term "go to hell" as a way to say, I hate you at the highest degree, and I hope you regret what you've done, not that I actually want them to go to Hell, mostly since I don't even believe it real.
I've read everything she has said, I've responded to everything except for the ones I've already mentioned, and combined answers together.
I'm just merely trying to make this seem thing less boring and a nuisance by adding humour.
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Heh heh, you're funny. I do recall mentioning that you're entitled to your opinion but you're just looking into one side of an argument is all I'm saying. ^^ You're not understanding, quite comical really.
Oh? So, you're telling me that the people who live in country areas, who don't live anywhere near markets and in poverish areas, aren't allowed to hunt for their food? =o So, you're saying they need to starve to death, correct?
Hun, what you're talking about with animals being processed in a slaughterhouse is not hunting. That is part of farming and not relevant to the conversation you are trying to give to me.
People living in rural areas in the country don't have stores like that where they can buy meat like that. And stores where they can buy stuff like that are hundreds of miles away. If they have too little money to even support a farm, you think they are going to waste that money on gas to drive those hundred miles to and from just for meat when they can hunt not just for food but to be able to sell the pelts to be able to afford their home? They don't have things like that and, as a nature law, survival of the fittest. Not everyone has money to splurge on foods like that and have to do what they can to survive.
Lol, you're really very funny. This reply had me giggling. Why would you use that term instead of just being honest? :3 Why degrade yourself to using a term that includes something you don't believe in rather than just telling the truth and saying you don't like them? It can't be anymore rude than telling them to have their eternal soul burning.
You're right, it is very funny now. I didn't think anyone could be this stubborn and so close minded. ^^ It is very humorous.
I, personally, can't imagine hurting an animal, I love animals. But, if I were in a situation where I needed food to live, I would do it. You never know what you would do until you're put into a position of either them or your death.
Pedro, you're only 13, you haven't lived long enough to realize what it means to have to survive. You don't know much yet about the world. One, that many people who hunt don't have money to support themselves and hunt for means of survival and two, that everyone has opinions on all of this. You're putting words into another's mouth and trying to twist the words to seem like you're the better person in this. This is what I mean by grow up. Just accept that someone has a different view from your own and get over it. You won't ever get someone to say "You know, you're right, I'll give up my lifestyle just because you say it's wrong."
Me for example, I'm not trying to make you change your views but I'm just reminding you of the facts of science and survival. When you're older, you may understand better what's like to be on your own and trying to do anything to get by and live because, as I've said, you'll never know what you would do until put into that position. Hunting is a natural part of life, whether you hunt or not, it will continue to happen. All about fitness and survival of the fittest. If the animals continue to hunt one another, we will continue to hunt them for purposes of survival and times probably will never change because people never change.
And that is my last piece on this conversation. Good day to you young lady and I hope you prove to be less stubborn and more open minded in the future. Thank you for the partial listening you did do. ^^
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And I really don't think you should be calling me close minded here, stubborn? Yes, I don't give up easily, but not close minded. I'm just seeing many more alternatives than other people do, which is almost the opposite of close minded really.
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I can clearly see you don't care as much about the feeling of animals as I do. You care more about the people. Understandable.
Well, I'm just the exact opposite.
Age defines nothing. And considering the fact you're in high school, you wouldn't really know how it's like living on your own and trying to get by either.
Ah great, being judged once again, just lovely.
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Lol! Oh my god, this is hilarious!
I love the humor you're putting into this conversation~!
Hm, well, you do have a point there Pedro, I shall give you that. ^^ However, I have parents that work hard everyday at jobs that give us just enough to get by and most times we do have to go without. It makes me appreciate the great things when I get them. And having a job, that bit of money goes to helping get things when I can. I don't have everything handed to me, I work to get the things I get and my parents work even harder most times to be able to give me the rare expenses that I do get. I know that one day, I am going to be on my own in this world. Mommy and daddy won't be holding my hand until I'm 50. And I accept that.
Am I judging you? Nope. I'm giving my opinion. ^^ And my opinion is that you're putting words into my mouth and twisting my words. -gasp- Am I right?! 
No, that isn't what open mindedness is. Being open minded is willing to accept all parts of an argument, to be accepting of things like that and the the things that people do and who they are.
For example.
I'm open minded, know why? Because I accept your position on this situation. I accept that it is what you believe and how you want to believe it and I don't try to change your mind. I'm just giving you my part in the argument. :3 Instead, you keep insisting that I'm judging you and that my views are wrong. That's the beauty of the US, being able to believe what you want to believe, have your own opinion and be able to give your opinion. ^^ Just accept that I'm not going to agree with you, now or ever, and respect my view as I do yours. That ends things quite easily and keeps any misconceptions or the constant on-going debate over the internet that will prove nothing on either side besides the fact that some people can't see eye to eye.
Really, we aren't even on the subject of hunting anymore, so I think my job is done here. ^^
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I'm sorry, but the "driving into the forest and shooting from your truck" part had me laughing, for some reason. Maybe because it ties in with the "redneck" stereotype way too much. XD
But yes, there are too many misconceptions about hunting out there. Native Americans hunted, and they had more respect for the animals they killed than perhaps most of the ignorant hipsters who accuse us of hating animals.
I don't like people who do it for fun though. Fun, profit, whatever, it's not right. At the very least, use as much of what you kill as possible. So at least that deer you killed could serve a better purpose than just an ornament on your wall.
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I don't mind killing animals for food and the fur (as long as it's not just used as decoration) but poaching and killing for fun bothers the hell out of me. And I read your earlier comments about how you say hunters don't enjoy the kill, they enjoy the nature and I couldn't disagree more. I live in a southern state where there are hunters as well. Every single one I know of does in fact enjoy the killing and talks and jokes about it as if it's nothing. Lets think about the hunter in Snow White actually (the traditional story); He APOLOGIZES to the animals he kills because he doesn't want to kill them but he needs them for food. That kind of appreciation for the animal is what I don't see in hunters around here anyways and is what pisses me off. I don't oppose hunting in general, just the ones who think animal life is worthless and lesser than humans.
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I agree 100%
Also If no one hunted over population happens and the animals would eat all the food and suffer even more from starving. Some people are to stupid to relize there is a reason why we have hunting in the first place. Same with not eating meat. What will ya do when all the animals eat the crops and there is no more vegetables and fruits to eat. If people said they did their research I highly doubt they truely did. Also I LOVE animals I hunt because its fun and keeps the population down. Just because I hunt does not mean I hate animals that's like saying I hate this person so I'll go kill them. No. I love animals alot and if someone really loved animals they wouldn't oppose hunting. But one thing I hate the most is when people say hunting is murder. No, no it's not. Murder is killing a human Not an animal.
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I've learnt about hunting and that is exactly the reason I do oppose it. You say hunting is not cruel, and yet many animals do suffer, wounded, bloody, frightened. Even if one animal ends up this way, it should path the way to banning it altogether.
Hunters do claim to love animals, and I don't doubt that they believe they do. But loving something doesn't mean you kill it, unless I have completely missed the point of what love actually means.
If a human would not wish to be hunted down for their skin, teeth, meat or any other 'useful' part of it, then they are hypocritical. For there is little difference in killing a man or an animal. It takes the same limited amount of compassion for both. People only 'make' a difference between themselves and animal kind, usually for the purpose of doing what they want, and in this case it is needlessly taking a life, one that isn't theirs to take.
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In most situations of hunting, the animal dies in seconds. Very rarely does the animal just get wounded. Hunters typically wait until they have a clear shot until they shoot. Tell me, do you eat meat?
I see a big difference in killing a human and an animal. I was raised to believe that human lives are more important than animal lives. We've lived off of animals for as long as we've existed. Why is it cruel and wrong all of the sudden? Yes, because the only reason we kill animals is because we want to.
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You say in 'most' situations, and very 'rarely', that simply is not good enough. No I don't eat meat.
However we were raised we are still born with freedom of choice when we get older. Simply because you were raised with a certain set of beliefs, does not make them the truth.
Humans have lived off of animals for a long time, but trying to justify it simply by saying it has been around for a certain time period isn't a justification at all. Evil traditions often stand for a long time. It is cruel because of the pain and fear that is inflicted, not to mention the fact that no human has the right to choose whether another creature lives or dies.
Humans are no better than animals, but I suspect it cares for their ego more to assume that is the truth.
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Then wouldn't nothing be true if every set of beliefs can be wrong in someone's eyes? I think that your beliefs aren't true, so does that mean we both live lies?
Honestly, all you're saying is mere opinion so there's no use fighting.
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Indeed it's true that any persons set of beliefs can be false, but if you want to answer the question over whether animals can and do suffer during hunts then by the standard of morality it should be a crime. It isn't opinion that animals suffer during these hunts, it is fact. And with that in mind, my opinion is based on facts, yours seem to be based on enjoyment and nothing else. If this were a fight, it would be one you'd leave at a loss for words, as it is you fail to stand up for your cause with anything substantial. If you have something in mind to say to justify such heinous acts then by all means, enlighten me...
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My opinion is based on facts too. Did you bother to read the description? I love how you turn up your nose because you don't realize that your opinion is just as closed-minded.
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I did read your description, and nowhere in it can it justify taking a life. I would rather have a closed mind where cruelty is concerned.
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Yeah I have and I STILL oppose it. If you truly research you'll see our interference only causes more problems. There's the reason that wolves "surplus" kill so we "need" to hunt them. If you were half logical you'd realize this is because we're WEAKENING the deer population and STRENGTHENING the wolf population. We need to just stop this and let nature sort itself out.
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You're incapable of seeing more than one point of view aren't you? I hunt to preserve my peoples culture and provide for my family. But someone like you would rather see an entire culture vanish than a single animal die.
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Mother nature is a cruel bitch. The deer population is getting weaker naturally because of the overpopulation of the wolves. If you were half logical you'd realize that hunting is less cruel than disease outbreaks and starvation. Do you know what happens when the wolves begin starving? They start moving closer to towns and cities, which endangers people and livestock. I'd rather see a wolf die than see a flock of sheep die. If you live in a rural area like I do, you'd understand how precious livestock is to farmers - especially when the economy has jumped off a cliff.
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Dude it's a VICIOUS cycle that CAUSES all the problems. One year we kill wolves for killing lovestock so the deer have no major predator. Then we kill the DEER which causes the wolf population to plummet do to lack of prey. This causes wolves to seek out livestock. Which often makes THEIR population go up them we kill THEM. Surplus killing/livestock deaths are causef by OUR interference. Nature kept ITSELF sorted out for a VERY long time. The second we started to kill for reasons other than food we fucked nature's delicate balance over royally.
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We don't kill most of the wolves for killing livestock. Don't be ridiculous. There's this magical thing called regulated hunting - only a certain amount of wolves can be taken in a certain area. The numbers for wolves around Yellowstone (at least in Idaho) is extremely low. In 3 months of hunting, only 150 wolves have been taken in Idaho, Wyoming, and Montana combined. Yes, I will admit that there is a lot of hunting of deer. I think it's a bit out of control and I do my part by not hunting deer. Nature is never truly balanced. People think that the only reason some species have gone extinct is because of humans, but we were the ones fighting to save the animals. Certain species will go extinct naturally. Millions of dollars go to saving species that are endangered every year. We aren't all the evil things that morons take us to be.
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and overpopulating the animals would probally eat all the crops and that means food would be hard 2 get its good 2 hunt sometimes but not over hunt
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Exactly. Fish and Game makes sure that we don't over-do it. They only allow a certain amount of animals to be taken per season per area - i.e. I know in one part of Targhee National Forest they're only allowing 5 deer to be taken this year.
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Where I live you can only shoot two bucks and two or three doe I think its good that we dont over do it but I get annoyed when people overreact and say hunting is a bad thing and then when I think of the bad things I can only think of one or two but when I think hunting is good I can come up with better reasons.Plus its better for the animal then not hunting them at all.
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This stamp (and the artist comment) is great. Ilu<3
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This is such a great stamp.
I'm in the UK and I grew up in a hunting community. I do believe that the 'sport' of (any) hunting benefits the species and most importantly, the human race. I am a Falconer and this season I plan to hunt fur and feather with my male Harris Hawk.
I could be out there hunting the rabbits right now, as there is no closed season for them over here. But my respect for my quarry species and my hunting partner prevent me from doing this. I believe that respect for the quarry is key. I will let the pregnant does give birth and raise their young in relative security- this pays off next season, when there are plenty of young rabbits around for 'Milo' to get started on. In the same way I respect my partner in the way that I will not hunt him when he is moulting as this could damage his feathers early on and be detrimental to his performance this year. Rabbits ruin crops. I've seen lots this year, and I presume myxamotosis is therefor down where I live. This will mean more little rabbits being intergrated into a large population and could therefor negatively effect Farmer's harvest this year.
I also plan to shoot with my Father this season. Pheasants, raised to be shot. But how many ARE shot? How many escape the boundaries of the shoot and intergrate into the wild population? I say, fair play to those Pheasants! They are left alone and allowed to survive, at least until the following year.
It's a sad case that if a few Anti-'s took the time to learn about hunting, and maybe even took a day in the field, many of their opinions would change.
And how many cute little innocent animals are killed by civilian cars each day? FAR MORE THAN IN HUNTING. With Milo, as little as one in ten flights is successful. Only one in ten, in a huge and growing population on UK rabbits.
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Thanks!
I've always wanted to try hunting with a falcon. I think it's illegal to hunt with dogs here, let alone falcons. My grandma lives in Montana and they get a lot of rabbits and prairie dogs. We try to cull them, but it never works. My grandma has to poison them in large amounts so they don't damage her property further. People think that the coyotes and her dog will just control the population, but it doesn't because the little buggers multiply like mad! I don't think there are very many pheasant farms around here, so we just go out in the forest along the road and hunt them. They're actually the only animals you can just stop along the road and shoot (if you have your tags).
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Thats very interesting! Here some forms of sport with dogs are illegal, or limit the numbers of dogs that can be used. Personally I don't see how getting killed by one dog, or three, will make any difference to the quarry!
Most anti-'s just don't understand the damage that some animals can do to the property of an individual, or their harvest. Rabbits and their like can RUIN people's livelyhood!
Falconry's one of the best field sports around. If you ever get the opportunity to go out with a falconer into the field, take it!
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UNTIL I learned about it.
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Did you bother reading the description? Average hunting is actually quite humane. It's not the evil thing that people make it out to be.
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Funny how she's a LOZ fan- a game where a boy in tights abuse cuckoos and horses
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Yes, since LOZ is clearly not a game and is real...Your point is so valid, it hurts.
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It was a joke, hence the trollface
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