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Vylinius — (Work in Progress) Map of Known Planetos
Published: 2017-11-30 21:20:54 +0000 UTC; Views: 9937; Favourites: 41; Downloads: 145
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A messy work in progress of my head canon for the political landscape of Westeros during the reign of King Aerys II just as the Tourney at Harrenhal gets under way.Related content
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It's a bit of a mix of canon information from the books and the World of Ice and Fire published materials, and quite a bit of head canon especially when it comes to most of the smaller political subdivisions and borders outside of Westeros proper. There's also some cases where this map directly contradicts canon such as showing various ruined or abandoned cities as still being inhabited in the islands north of Sothroyos and in the Dothraki lands of the Great Grass Sea. I think I'll eventually produce a key for this map, but likely in conjunction with the story of sorts I've been plotting alongside my work on the map.
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I mean considering World of Ice and Fire is supposed to have been written mostly by a Maester for King Tomen I, we can safely assume that the information for anything outside of Westeros is both biased and inaccurate, especially the further out we get. Personally I'm highly suspicious of any of the geography past the Bone Mountains. So if you are world building it's probably a nice touch of it's own realism to just say Yandel got that part wrong, and if you really want to add a nice touch, maybe a reason for that. I mean so long as it's not some place we go to and canonically see hasn't been inhabited in a long time, there are plenty of reasons they could have bad information. If we're talking the Basilisk Isles, there's a few reasons they might not have good information. Remember this si going to be information they have been able to receive. All that stuff about rival claimants to the title of God Emperor of Yi-Ti might have already been resolved by the time the book gets published. Heck, given the nature of the book, there's reason to question if it even describes the conflict with any accuracy.
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Entirely true. Whenever I finally get to writing up the story proper, I intend to include little side bits using an in-universe perspectives to explain and discuss the misconceptions present in Maester Yandel's work in a similar fashion to how academics discuss the origins of misconceptions we find in works during our own middle ages that would make reference to China. However, I am leaning a little closer to Yandel's information being generally inaccurate, lacking in detail, and/or out of date instead of as wrong as seen in real life incidents of similar reporting during the middle ages. I justify this due to how in the history of Westeros and some characters in the canon are presented as having trotted around most of the known world. While they are obviously the exceptions, it makes me more willing to accept some of the bits that Yandel relates on the lands east of the Free Cities being "correct" to some degree. In the case of Yi-Ti I'm going mostly with a combination of Yandel is out of date and his information is warped by the stories about the pretenders. The supposed revived Emperor is merely a distant descendant of uncertain lineage who has gained considerable power in their local area and is harkening back to an Emperor from Yi-Ti's history for legitimacy and perhaps due to an irregular amount of narcissism. Something similar to the leader of the Taiping Rebellion claiming a relationship with Jesus Christ, but more subdued. However, I plan on most of the "fighting" between the claimants and Empire to be done by what would be the reign of King Tommen in canon. But, most of these plans and ideas are still unfinished. After all, my primary focus right now is on the background to Aerys's reign and what would be the "present" day of when the story proper would start.
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I've also suspected much of what we hear about Ashai and the Shaddow Lands is at the least exaggerated, if not wildly misconstrued by Yandel. Much of it seems to be flavored as to make them seem sensational in a way scandalous to "godly" Westerosi in a cultural "here there be dragons" kind of way. It might be harsh but is probably not actually magically toxic, at least not to the point indicated. I mean if Yi-Ti was concerned about the prevalence of reavers enough to build a whole new capitol, this means that at the very least there was enough of a population, and other ports present, to support that so people besides Shaddow Binders do live there. Also Melesandra remembers being a child in Ashai, and is from there, so obviously there have been children in Ashai. And no I do not consider Marwyn a "reliable" source. He's at the least someone who associates himself with less than savory types like Mirri Maz Duur and Qyburn, if not up to no good himself. Plus his allegations of a Maester conspiracy sound to me similar to the rantings of conspiracy types I've known who wind up in government jobs and now know "it was all true".
Although I do have a rather unexciting and mundane theory as to why animals, and even some people tend to become sick and drop dead in Ashai. Heatstroke. It's a city on or near the equator, made of a black material, it's going to get ridiculously hot. It explains the Ashai'i preference for covering themselves head-to-toe in long robes. They may even make use of magic to cool themselves or their living spaces. Also, if they are not incorrect about the (at least relative) extreme age of their city, the lack of usage of animals may also be cultural, as their culture may pre-date these animals selective breeding into useful mounts, or even their domestication by other peoples. The lack of children might just be an aspect of secrecy, IE: they don't let them out in the open, or they don't let foreigners to wherever they tend to keep them. It could also be that a significant portion of the Ashai'i themselves don't live in Ashai proper, and raise their families in the surrounding countryside, and only use the city for things like trade and the study of magic.
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I've my own theories on nature and conditions of Ashai and the Shadow Lands, which I'd like to keep to myself due to their implications for the story I'd like to eventually tell. I will however, comment on some broader topics dealing with the orientalized and mysterious city of the far east. I don't mind the idea of magical toxicity, though I will agree in that it is unlikely to be extremely prevalent in Ashai. I imagine it'd be far more prevalent in the cities shown as ruins on canon maps of Planetos in the far east, such as Stygai. I'll also concur on the point of it being extremely unlikely that there are no children in Ashai, at the most extreme I'd say it's possible that Ashai is some kind of city only used by those native to the region for trade with the outside world and thus the children are kept at other smaller settlements near Ashai that would in that scenario be the actual residences for the majority of the population.
As for Marwyn, while I don't trust him, I think he like Lady Dustin offers a valuable if very likely inaccurate perspective on the world of Westeros and particular actors within that world. In the case of Marwyn his idea of a maester conspiracy that has been, in my opinion, blown out of proportion in many examples of fan speculation is still valuable. As it is likely that maesters communicate and that the leadership will act on their own ideas or interests and will ostracize those who do not get with the program in the way that Marwyn himself appears politically isolated from the rest of the Arch Maesters. But just like with any organization there will be difficulty in maintaining continuity of any kind of leadership across generations and thus any "conspiracies" practiced by maesters would like known government actions in reality be somewhat haphazard and prone to a mixture of success and failure born from the real challenges any kind of covert act would face, especially in a medieval setting where even with ravens there would still be significant difficulties involved in communication and coordination of assets on any kind of truly large scale.
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True on the parts about Ashai. But I did want to offer a completely mundane, non-magical, and non-sinister explanation for things like the the absence of children and animals supposedly dropping dead. The Ashai'i culturally might permit things we, and also Westerosi, might disapprove of, but I think the idea that they are somehow "dark" or "sinister" has much more to do with the misunderstandings of outsiders than anything else. If Ashai really is a city and a culture of its own, then it probably has the same mix of savory and unsavory people and customs as any place in good ol' Westeros. Especially considering the highly negative views that the Westerosi and Lanisters in particular have of magic in general, if Ashai is one of the few remaining major centers of magic and magical learning, then they will probably focus on and exaggerate any negative aspects of the city and its culture.
I do agree that it's a valuable perspective, however I do think that most of the questions about Maester accountability have a lot more to do with general distrust of an independent academia or a class of intelligentsia by those who's interests that potentially threatens, on whatever side of the social hierarchy they happen to be on. IE: political elites distrust them because they can act counter to the power structure, and populists distrust them because they are their own elite in a way. Really my concern is that they might be on the losing end of a major Westerosi power struggle no matter what, as intellectuals often are. Which is they are aware of this might be the real motivation for them having their own agenda. Survival. A group of dedicated scholars without direct loyalty to one group in particular is a potential threat to anyone looking to either consolidate or restructure power to their own ends. This includes a revolution by the commoners, a particular great house, the church or foreign conquerors.
More generally I distrust the Maester conspiracy theories, both inside and outside of the world because when we do see Maesters acting (or even considering acting) deviously or conspiratorially, it's for frankly "unmaesterly" reasons. Things like political, religious or family loyalties that they are supposed to give up. So the idea of some great conspiracy of Maesters would be largely, if not entirely, counter to this characterization so far. Any historical conspiracies they (or specific members) might have been a part of were probably for similar motivations. That being said, I have entertained thoughts of the supposed "secret matriarchy" in the reach possibly being opposed to the seemingly hyper-patriarchal "Oldtown trinity" and that possibly being the main long term historical conspiracy. Though depending on the culture and politics that might venture more into the territory of "open secret" or even "unspoken reality" than grand conspiracy or secret war.
Also, just to state I for one do not consider Maester Cressen's attempts to poison Melisandre necessarily sinister, the woman was burning innocent people alive, and if the show is any indication of where the books are headed, he was right on the money about her being a threat to the holders of Dragonstone.
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I do like non-magical and mundane explanations for much of the exotic information we're given on the world beyond Westeros itself, but I believe as with the fact that there was some truth to domestic Westerosi myths about its own magical heritage that there is likely a similar grain of truth in the information we're given on the wider world, though that truth may be vastly distorted. And you do make an excellent point on the general Westerosi view of magic being to some degree negative at its worst and disbelieving at best, minus a few rare exceptions. Though I'd say the general or most common view appears to be suspicion/disbelief and those who practice magic having a reputation as self-serving and those who belief them being ditzy and not to be trusted with major decision making.
I wholly agree with your perspective in regards to the maester conspiracies and their current situation. Though, I'd say the Maesters are a very interesting intellectual elite in that they appear to be the sole class of intellectual elites in Westeros and to a great degree regulate their organization and its knowledge. Qyburn being a notable exception. We also don't see the church in Westeros fulfilling the major intellectual role it did in medieval society. This makes the maesters very interesting to me as there aren't many historical organizations truly analogous to them. Which makes the kind of influence they wield oddly unique and how it might be used by individuals or organization at large greatly interests me and leaves me a bit undecided on what I think the internal politics of the organization might look like.
I was unaware of the idea of a "secret matriarchy" in the Reach. Such an idea is intriguing but, I imagine whatever roots to it there may be prior to the Queen of Thorns that the modern existence of it in the setting is very different from whatever its original roots were. Also I'd be hesitant to consider such female influence a matriarchy and instead think of it more the natural result of the Reach being so vast and practicing the kind of strict division of social influence between male and female elites. Thus the natural application of a woman's political influence in the private sphere may look like conspiracy when it crosses into the public sphere when in reality it is a fairly normal form of practice that the male elite of Westeros are simply uninterested in, just as real medieval male elites often belittled or projected onto the political actions of real world medieval female elites.
My opinion of Melisandre is perhaps softer than your own, but I think her character in part is troubling for both in-universe and meta reasons. And I'll agree that Maester Cressen's attempt to poison her were pragmatic and certainly moral considering his position. However, I don't like to judge the value of an action based upon what its consequences may have been since the true consequences of an alternative are difficult to discern at the best of times.
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I mean I am presuming the Ashai'i have magic, jut that it's not having the effects the Westerosi are presuming. Namely my suspicion is that the Ashai'i have some kind of magical air-conditioning, that allows their otherwise inhospitable city to be tolerable for them. I mean most Westerosi don't seem to have an especially hostile, or even unreasonable, view of magic. However the current Lanister regime, seems to be especially hostile to anything it perceives as "foreign", and looking at A World of Ice and Fire from the perspective of either appealing to their sensibilities or serving as propaganda makes some of the statements about how these various cultures engage in unsavory and dark practices at the least suspicious. More so when you consider that "unreliable narrators" is something of a theme. I wonder just how mysterious the Norvoshi really are and how "dark" the practices of the Qohori would actually seem. Especially since the contextual evidence seems to indicate the the whole blood sacrifice in re-forging Valyrian steel is probably nonsense.
They do resemble the Confucian bureaucracy in China to some degree, but you are right in that they don't seem to have a true historical analogue. But if they are inspired by that source, again, a major regime change could easily bode quite ill for them. There are cases where incoming dynasties slaughtered them en-mass as they represented a threat to their consolidation of power.
So the idea that such a secret matriarchy comes not just form the queen of thorns plot-line, but also some of the founding legends in the Reach itself, that suggest many of the older houses, that might have been independent kingdoms originally, might have derived their titles matrilineally. There is even some indication that some of these first men cultures in the Reach might have practiced polyandry. So the idea being that there has likely always been a "Queen of Thorns" in the Reach, and that Lady Olenna isn't so much a social climber as the preserver of tradition. However this theory isn't popular as some of the others for a number for reasons. Firstly, it seems to have historically been confined to the Reach. Secondly, it doesn't show a clear connection to magic or dragons, you know, the cool stuff. Thirdly, at it's most devious, the plot seems to be the peaceful expansion and consolidation of the Reach through diplomatic marriage, not exactly the most sinister of motives or means, especially in the context of Westeros.
I mean my choice is really because the Cressen attempt to poison Melisandre is given as the go-to for proof that the Maesters as a whole are really part of a conspiracy of amoral puppet-master assassins. When really it seems to indicate the opposite, if anything. And I don't really take it as after-the-fact justification for his attempt, so much as evidence that his instincts/judgment about her being a threat to the household were correct. True he couldn't have known, but his deductions from what he saw were correct.
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