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windfalcon β Mary Sue - How to Tell
Published: 2004-02-25 08:27:37 +0000 UTC; Views: 430618; Favourites: 7007; Downloads: 44654
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EDIT 3: 11/22/09 You guys are kidding me XD For goodness sakes, reaaaaad the liink here: [link] Every time I get a comment that reads "the one on the left is a Mary Sue because she has green hair and a power," I realize that they're not reading the description which contains this link: [link]tl;dr: If 'special' traits fit in with the universe, it doesn't automatically make the character a Mary Sue. What if everyone else in Ami Machida's universe has green/blue/purple hair? What if everyone else has a cat power? Does that make her a Mary Sue? Not necessarily.
Please, spare me the time from having to point you BACK to the silly description and just take a minute to read the link. You know, the one I linked to a bunch of times up above. And the link here: [link]
EDIT 2: 10/11/09 I suppose this is long overdue, but for those of you with confusion, here is an explanation on why I perceive the one on the left as not a Mary Sue: [link] For the love of god stop whining about it D:
EDIT: 6/21/09 Okay, everyone, please chill with all the 'hay is my character a mary-sue!?11" questions. I get about 3 a day now and one thing you need to understand - I AM NOT AN AUTHORITY ON MARY SUES. This picture is a parody. Just for fun. The one on the right is obviously an extreme exaggeration of a stereotype and not the definitive definition for a Mary Sue. D:
Please full view. You won't be able to read the text if you don't.
For those of you who don't know, a Mary Sue, in a nutshell, is a fanmade character that is usually extremely beautiful, powerful, smart, talented, and in plain words, perfect in every way.
These characters tend to be quite a bother in fanfiction and role playing, since they simply can't be beat, and thus become boring.
Have any of you ever been rping, and come across a character who is like, " oh, well, that planet in the way isn't a problem *blows it up*"
Or, is like, "well, Vegeta and Goten and Trunks and Goku ALL have a crush on my character"
Yep. That's a Mary Sue.
So, for people who still don't understand, I made this little picture/diagram. Usually, Mary Sues have TONS of talents and TONS of powers, and no weaknesses.
Enjoy ^_^
-Done in Copic Markers, with the background and text done on computer -
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Comments: 4629
They're both Mary Sues. Why is this garbage on the front page again?Β
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Hey, don't say that to someone's artwork! It's rude. Just sayin' the more you start juding meanly to artists of their work, the more of a horrible artist you'll become. Oh, yeah it's not garbage. If you have nothing nice to say then don't say it.Β
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Pfft jealous much π.
Or at least it definitely seems like it.
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I don't think so, look more closely. This is on the front page because it's good art and entertaining to read, please refrain from leaving rude comments on excellent drawers' pages. I believe you're actually jealous, but that may be just me.
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Honestly, it's likely on the front page not because of the art - but because the message is very relatable with most of the community. I wouldn't go as far as to say that this work is 'excellent.' But it gets the point across effectively. This piece is from 2004, so obviously this isn't going to be very good compared to the artist's newest works.
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Also true, but I think the art is pretty cute
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Just one thing. Mary sues don't have to look over the top, they can look good. But a have a horrid backstory. Just saying. THIS ISN'T ABOUT THE GIRL ON THE LEFT
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I personally like Mary Sue characters. Humans always strive to be flawless and perfect, and it's interesting not only to see how an author personally interprets perfection, but how they exist at that level.
I don't think it's a boring character at all. sometimes having no weakness can BE a weakness, as well as test the creativity of the creator.
Mary Sue characters get a lot of hate, but it's all subjective. Nobody should compromise their vision of a character and give it arbitrary weakness and flaws to meet some anti Mary Sue quota.
your illustration here is very well done actually, and it does a great job of identifying the two types of characters.
My only gripe is the bias against the Mary Sue, which is still fine.
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To be honest... I think the best weakness for character's who are a bit Overpowered is the most simple but easy to exploit ones such as one of my own characters (Who's info is partly not finished to keep certain things hidden till I hit a certain point in my fanfic he's in) for a fanfic I've been doing has simple but at times easy to exploit weaknesses... he's emotionally weak due to a dark event in his past and also lacks full control of his powers, plus using the more advanced forms of his powers put a lot of stress on his body and mind, both of these easy to exploit as you can trigger the correct emotions to make him freeze up or refuse to fight back, or try to prolong a fight long enough while forcing him to use his powers which in turn weaken his body and mind.
Also you are right about the having no weakness can be a weakness since I may of not watched but looked it up a little... but doesn't the main hero of One Punch Man have the problem of his bored out of his skull because he can't find even a single bad guy who can survive a single punch for him? Pretty say that sounds like a weakness to me.
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wow, never thought that way, or seen anyone think that before!
nice to see someone else's opinion
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Thanks, I definitely appreciate someone who can understand a different point of view.
I always thought that hatred for the Mary Sue archetype was irrational. Like people were being taught that it was bad and then reinforcing it with each other..
But I'm pretty passionate about art, and I use a broad definition of it. Guidelines and rules in art make me sad haha
good day to you
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Β I'm pretty in between. I do not mind powerful or smart, or beautiful characters. But I want to be extra communicative with their players so that unwanted power abuse is prevented.Β It entirely depends on the maturity and skill of the writer to make a powerful character a good one.
Β I've played with characters that were capable of killing mine in a single blow, but there was a balance there because of communication. I don't want my character to die, so we make a compromise. I'm willing to sacrificeΒ my character's arm or leg - but he gets to escape somehow.
Β Whereas in other roleplays I haveΒ had people literallyΒ say they killed my character because they can, and I would just leave because it was no fun whenΒ it became unfair like that.Β
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You brought up on very important thing that plays into all Merry Sues... specially if it's a self-insert... no one wants to let themselves or their character(s) die... problem is you always hit that wall where the person you're roleplaying with puts you or your characters up against something that won't leave you any second chances if they was to lose the fight... which honestly is pretty understandable... but if they make it be every single foe that's where you kinda have the "Merry Sueness" forced upon you... I mean lets not forget some bad guys take pleasure and joy in beating the hero but letting them leave so they can just watch them run away trying to cling to what little life they have, yet people always seem to forgot about that kind of stuff...
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I feel like Mary Sues annoy a lot of people; take for example Megami from Yandere Simulator (random example :T), sheesh Megami, no need to be good at everything!
Just imagine yourself looking at a Mary Sue in real life and not hating them.
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That's the thing though, in art and stories and creative works. Hate is different.
Say there's a guy who's being a jerk in real life and you hate his guts.
Now say that guy is the villain in a novel. The fact that you hate him, means he's doing his job as a villain, and you could argue that he's a good character because of it. Average normal likable guys don't make good villains.
There aren't many perfect people in the real world. but there are definitely those who have more than others. Sometimes people do just have it all and there's not some secret bad thing that "balances it out". Rich, Smart, good looking, polite, thoughtful, charismatic ect. If they aren't a jerk about it, then hating them is just jealousy.
tl;dr Mary sues definitely do annoy a lot of people. but I am of the opinion that they aren't some horrible monster to be attacked, but another type of character that can add flavor in the right story. Sometimes you just need a character to fantasize about or to admire and look up to.
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Good point, makes sense why you like them!
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Mary sue characters are not necessarily overpowered, but that is certainly an element that plays into it. A big thing people don't understand about characters is that they should not be perfect. People care more about seeing a character evolve and gradually overcome difficulty, rather than seeing them overcome something with ease. That being said, if a character has too many problems to the point where they turn into some emo existential mess, then people will get tired of hearing them complain about their problems. Characters are made of failure and imperfection. If they were perfect, there would be no reason for them to be in a story of any kind since their is no need for them to evolve. I think a lot of this stems from the OC problem of trying to put yourself into a story. Since you are you, it is hard to see yourself in a way that a reader would. What may seem like a great difficulty to yourself, may actually not be as big a deal as you are making it out to be, and vice versa. It is really tempting for someone to create an OC that's "The Ideal You", but this is a terrible trap. You are interesting as a person because of your flaws, just as a character is interesting because of their weakness. "The Ideal You" has not weakness, making it a flawed character from the start.Β
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With the "Ideal You" thing... problem is some flaws are not easy to recreate in an OC... such as myself I have ADHD which take a high dose of tablets for to keep myself under control and Asperger's Syndrome... those two things are not so easy to recreate in an OC... since one well what's to say the world I end up in as my OC has the EXACT kind of tablets I have to take for my ADHD?
As for my Asperger's Syndrome... there is no meds for that... nor do I find it easy to recreate in my OCs in the past... since you need only so many symptoms to be classed with it... and each person suffers different symptoms such as I really can't stand a simple change in my day to day life... just picture trying to recreate that on OC along with the many other symptoms that a person with Asperger's Syndrome can have... so yeah call me lazy if you want but I just find it way more simple to... well leave those two flaws out if I ever make an OC that is meant to be an insert of me... it's just... easier for me.
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I can definitely see how adapting those flaws can be difficult, but it doesn't necessarily have to be those specific flaws. This is where you can get really creative and even world build a little. Perhaps make something similar but more simple for your oc to overcome that ties in with the world.Β
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I tend to try and replace my mental health problems with different flaws but what really ticks me off is when someone gives their OC ADHD and uses it as an "Get out of jail card" for when they go and do something down right fucking dumb and can walk away from it without a problem cause ADHD. That's not how it works. Hell when I was a kid and we're talking 1995-2000 here... orange smarties used toΒ caused me to get a bit violent... even gave my own mother a nose bleed at the swimming pool because of them. But I only got like that when I had orange coloured smarties, not I just suddenly do it for no sudden reason. That's not as I said how ADHD works,if you give your OC ADHD and want to make use of it? Give them a crap ton of sweets beforehand so the said flaw works at the right time but never use it as a random "Get out of jail card" as that's just insulting to me and others who suffer ADHD wouldn't you agree?Β
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I definitely agree. If you are going to use something like ADHD as a defining part of a character, you better have researched it thoroughly. Not only to avoid being disrespectful, but also to make sure your character doesn't turn two dimensional.Β
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Yeah... it just disgusts me when people use things such as ADHD as part of their mary-sue's loop hole of getting out of trouble. If anything ADHD SHOULD bring them into MORE trouble not let them get out of it right?Β
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Both these characters look pretty mediocre.Β
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2004Β
Enough Said.
This is like a nero thread OTL
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I'm glad that this is on the front page again. It's fun to look at this and then see what works you have done since. It's pretty inspirational.
(it's also crazy to think I was only 12 when this image was posted. I feel like the Indiana Jones of the internet being here, exploring an ancient temple... No offense).
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I 100% agree with you on this entire comment haha
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I feel like, the accurate depiction of a mary-sue is a character that doesn't fit in, whether effort was made to fit them into their fandom was made or not. A character can be over-powered if it fits within the fandom. I believe what really matters is whether the personality is worth the character or not.
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Thanks for this informashin I am new to this
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I feel like this (and a lot of other criticisms of Mary Sues) lack a fundamental understanding that a character sheet is a reference but not a character in and of itself. Characters are made through story and interaction and even traditionally "Mary-sue" characters can have a story that makes them a good character (example: My Immortal, the fanfic, vs My Immortal the web series).Β
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Itβs weird, because looking at the first picture (the not Mary Sue) Iβd actually consider her a Mary Sue too by todayβs standards. Well.. not a Mary Sue specifically, but that thereβs not much thought in it. When people create Mary Sue characters it shows that thereβs nearly no thought going into that character and their interests and diversity. And the not-Mary Sue example, while it probably was well thought out in 2004 when you made this piece, has been rehashed out over and over and over throughout the years in stories and roleplays and so the lack of thought for the character and their diversity in the story/roleplay shines through.
TL;DR I canβt believe this is from 2004 wtf dAβs algorithm, also itβs interesting to see how character creation/Mary Sue creation has changed over the years.
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It's not like the not-mary sue character looks like a really deep character, she looks like the typical introverted otaku/geek anime character, so it's boring too.
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Makes me think of my Sonic OC compared to how Chris-Chan sees himself.
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Plot. The only armor material more powerfull than an old nokia
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Until it runs out for some people.
I just had a feeling, that that's the last time I'll ever see my ship.....
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Β You have been freed from this comment by the Llama of Justice! Have a nice day.
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Interesting. I was wondering why this was in my What's hot section. Bustling with activity, I see. I like it! And while I do agree to a point, to each their own I say o/. Have a nice day!
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holy shit this was drawn around the time I was born
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Fun fact: you can still have Jasmyne not be a Mary Sue - you just need to create a challenge. She cannot die, but then can she take the grief of all her friends passing as she stays immortal forever? She can create galaxies, but would their creation upset the balance of the universe? It doesn't matter how powerful or "special" a character is, what matters is the writer's skill to create a matching challenge. In a way, creating challenge for someone with this set of powers is more fun.
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I agree. What makes a Mary sue character is a lack of challenge, problems, or repercussions. Even an overpowered character can be a deep one if done correctly (and with personal weaknesses of course).Β
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In one of my stories I have a guy who has won a challenge against the spirits of life, death and mind (custom world), so he cannot die, he can kill at will, he can heal, and he can read minds. However when I write stories, I never use him to resolve world problems. He doesn't care about that stuff, he is an archivist that just lives in his own environment where he struggles with the concept of loss and sanity - he lost all that were close to him, and being able to read minds, he hates living in cities - it's overwhelming and horrible to hear all the selfishness and just general stress and pain of normal people. He lives in a small village and often visits an orphanage - the elders fear him, but the children love him, because he somehow always knows how to help. But it's hard to get attached to them, because they will all one day die. One of the saddest things that happened to him was, he fostered a baby with his healing magic - she was always asleep in his robe when tiny. But when she grew up, she left with a hunting party for her first hunt, and died. He left the village for a few years, trying to recover, but it's hard to recover from something like that, especially on your own.
So yeah. Main rules of interesting storywriting in my opinion are: If there is no conflict, there is no story, and, the characters can easily get into trouble, but they shouldn't easily get out of it.
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I see where you're coming from... I think... just because they have these powers doesn't mean they have to play the hero which normally has them go looking for the trouble which ends up being more of an annoyance then a real threat... but I think one major problem here is... when you come right from gaming to creating fanfiction stories... you're so used to the hero surviving each encounter without a physical or mental scratch at all that you forgot that the characters your making for the story you're writing are still capable of dying just like anyone else.
I mean look at games like... Mass Effect 2, if you don't make the right choices from the start of the game, you could very well end up with your Shepard falling to his/her death at the end of the game which can come as a big shock when you get the impression that Shepard must be an immortal now he was brought back alive after dying at the start of the game and you only have a health and shield/barrier bar there for gameplay reasons... only to have him/her full on fall their death at the end of the game if you fucked up so badly.
As for mental damage... I'd say look at Metal Gear Rising: Revengeance, you start the game off making it look like you're all powerful but you get your ass handed to you within the end of the first level... and then about halfway into the game you get threated into segment where Raiden has been mind fucked and you're unable to fight back like you could a few mins ago all because someone had caused his a mental hit instead of a physical one... I admit not the best example since he got over his mental problem within no time (but that's video games for ya) but my point is video games rarely show this kind of side to our video game heroes, I mean I for one liked the Tomb Raider 2016 reboot game. Instead of starting off as the Lara we all knew and love who can kill another person without any effect on her mental state of mind... we got to see a side of her where she was almost throwing up, while covered in blood and in full shock that she just killed another human point blank with a pistol.
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At least, the one of the right is so perfect it can be fun xD
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Mary sue is not One specific person, It is any Fictional character that is too Perfect and too colorful, So basically A character with no flaws or problems, but It could also be considered a mary sue if they have too many flaws and problems.
Example:
Normal character: Her name is Emily, she's a simple girl who loves the outdoors, she could be a bit lazy but that never stops her from playing Β Β Β with her pet Bingo.
Mary Sue (Too perfect): Her name is Princess Sparkle lilly kawaii neko chan, She's the princess of rainbows and Universes, She's 14564 years old but looks 16, she has HUGE breasts and all the boys loves her!
Mary sue (Too much flaws): Her name is Sophie the killer doll, her parents were killed right in front of her and her new orphan parents abuse her everyday, she's bullied at school and even by teachers and she looks very ugly with no hair due to the fact that she has cancer and suffers from many illnesses. Then she killed everyone to get revenge
(Gary stu if Male character)
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Sophie the killer doll is actually what I'd term an Anti-Sue. An Anti-Sue is basically the opposite of a Mary Sue - she has too many flaws.
Ironically, the original "Mary Sue" was actually a parody of that type of character.
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