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xPine β such a troll.
Published: 2011-01-03 21:07:15 +0000 UTC; Views: 12611; Favourites: 932; Downloads: 85
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Yes I know I'm not quite the person to do stamps, especially ones like these. I had some muse to try this out, only because of today.
Stamps are cute, I'll make them if I had actual inspiration. So sorry for it being so.. boring but I like it clean. Submitting this to a bunch of groups so I can get an opinion on how people like it.But I'm in school today, right? I take AP World History, and if anyone doesn't know it's Advanced placement (college level) course a high schooler can take. So that's nice and all, and my teacher is someone who well... you can tell she's not deeply religious. She said she's had no religion before and she is not insulting in any way, I kind of find her funny, because I'm pretty much one of the only non religious people in the class (in the school too). She'll make little comments and her tone of voice is very funny when we talk about religion.
So we're talking about the Enlightenment period, and this was a time when the Catholic Church was under a lot of pressure. My teacher was explaining how the church really did use people for their money, was corrupt, and forced people into many religious wars. And then when the topic of the philosopher Voltaire came up (he was a huge critic of religion, calling the church ignorant and so forth) people in the class commented how he was gonna burn in hell and people like that are stupid.
So I'm sitting here thinking, and I think. "Wow, religion is a huge troll!" Thus, this stamp was born.
So many people die for their faith, so much corruption is in the church, so maybe people shove their beliefs down everyone's throat, even to extreme ways by killing them. The Crusades? Seriously. Why can't we have religious tolerance? Seriously, is it so hard to respect people?
This can be interpreted many different ways. So yes, this is my opinion! No, I don't have any problems with anyone religious
I have many religious friends and respect those who are. This is my opinion.edit: I'm getting a lot of group requests on this, thank you for those. xD
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Comments: 603
Because you know rampaging and pillaging from Europe to the Middle East is a totally valid way of dealing with people you don't like.
You want some actual history? The Crusades had nothing to do with "freeing Jews and Christians from Muslim rule". Many believed Christians had to own the Holy Sites in order for anyone to reach Heaven. Additionally,
The term "crusade" is also used to describe religiously motivated campaigns conducted between 1100 and 1600 in territories outside the Levant[5] usually against pagans, heretics, and peoples under the ban of excommunication[6] for a mixture of religious, economic, and political reasons.[7] Rivalries among both Christian and Muslim powers led also to alliances between religious factions against their opponents, such as the Christian alliance with the Islamic Sultanate of RΓ»m during the Fifth Crusade.
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On a popular level, the first crusades unleashed a wave of impassioned, personally felt pious Christian fury that was expressed in the massacres of Jews that accompanied the movement of the Crusader mobs through Europe, as well as the violent treatment of "schismatic" Orthodox Christians of the east.
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Once inside the city, as was standard military practice when an enemy had refused to surrender,[22] the Crusaders massacred the Muslim inhabitants, destroyed mosques and pillaged the city. [hint: that's killing innocent people]
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The Jews and Muslims fought together to defend Jerusalem against the invading Franks. They were unsuccessful though and on 15 July 1099 the crusaders entered the city.[23] They proceeded to massacre the remaining Jewish and Muslim civilians and pillaged or destroyed mosques and the city itself.[26] One historian has written that the "isolation, alienation and fear"[3] felt by the Franks so far from home helps to explain the atrocities they committed, including the cannibalism which was recorded after the Siege of Ma'arra in 1098.
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The story of the first crusade from the crusaders' perspective recounts the struggles of the first wave of crusaders to reach the hinterlands of Byzantium, of Islamic Syria, and then of Jerusalem; of the terrible slaughters of Jewish populations committed by a second wave as it marched through the Rhineland; [...] That such a band even made it to Jerusalem is remarkable, and was possible, first, because of divisions within the realm of Islam, and second, because Muslims in the various provinces misinterpreted the presence of the crusading army. They seem to have regarded the Christian forces as renegades, escapees from the poverty and oppression of the "territory of war."
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> [link]
PS: Islam is a branch of the Abrahamic beliefs. It's is their "home" too.
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Look, you are well aware of what I'm talking about. Yes, I've read about the tragedies, and massacres that went on in the Crusades, and I never said I agreed, supported, or liked any of that. Humans are flawed no-matter what. The problem is, people seem to think Christians view themselves as "perfect", In reality we know we're far from it. Furthermore, if you were a Christian, you'd understand that all evil things came from Satan (the Devil); and polygamy, sharia law, the way they treat their woman, and the hate towards all non-muslims, is evil. It isn't that they're not peaceful (many are) it's the fact that their beliefs are violent, and oppressive. Also, Judaism began thousands of years ago, Christianity began around 2000 years ago. Islam began around 1300-1200 years ago, and then they gained "their" lands from conquest.
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Now, how come your massacres are okay and "oh well humans aren't perfect" but you began here with how evil Muslims have to be over the same thing?
You do realize polygamy is condoned in the Bible, right? (PS: What's wrong with polygamy?)
And also that Islam draws it's laws regarding gender roles from the Bible and the Torah, right? In fact, the Quran basically regurgitates a lot of stuff from the Bible.
And that the Bible also preaches hate towards non-Christians and oppression? Have you ever actually read the Bible, dude? Have you read the Quran? If you wanted to bash Islam, start with how their messiah raped a nine year old girl, not over shit that's actually a part of your holy book too.
Christians also gained "their" lands from conquest (did you notice all the antisemitism there and that the Jews didn't want them there but they took it anyway?). And, Hebrews did too - in fact according to the Bible they ethnically cleansed the Mesopotamian area. They're probably the most violent, historically speaking, of the three of you. That being said, every fucking culture or people or religion has conquered "their" lands, your argument is invalid.
If age has anything to do with anything, then Christianity is also suspect since Judaism was established long before it. See how much sense that makes? You're all tied to the same faith, ergo you all like Jerusalem a lot, it's your "home" because it is the origin of your faiths. (Technically not since Judaism didn't start there but whatever.)
If you were a Christian, you'd know Ha-Satan isn't evil nor did he give birth to evil nor is he the root of evil. His role has always been to test humanity's faith and resilience, at the bidding of YHWH. He can't and doesn't make anyone evil or create evil himself. He's not wandering around waiting to possess people and make them go have an orgy while eating babies. He's not "the Devil" nor does he control or send people to "Hell".
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plus he was supposedly created by god to test peoples evil
-also do you wanna help me with a group called freedom of opinion
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No massacre is okay, ALL humans have failings, and those failings come from the Devil. And when all other religious sects are no longer warring with eachother; Muslims still are, to some degree.
If your going to ask, " Whats wrong with polygamy?" I'm no longer going to take you seriously. It's illegal in many countries, and can lead to disease, as well as birth defects.
The problem is, that you think Christianity is based around the "Old Testament". If you wanted to learn about it, you should have read the "New Testament. That is where most Christians fail, and where non-Christians get messed up. The Old Testament is a collection of myths, and legends taken from Judaism. Many of the people mentioned in it were real, but Adam & Eve, the Flood, world created 3000 years ago, are all Jewish myths. And everything saying God is harsh, judgmental, and punishing IS NOT TRUE. The New Testament is written accounts from John, Peter, Luke, Mathew, Mark, and James, of the teachings of Jesus. His teachings are what you should read first, if you want to learn about Christianity. But, there is still some danger in that testament, since even though they were some of his closest disciples, they were still former Jews, and they still had failings.
Baptists, and other judgemental Christians get that way because they firmly believe in the Old Testament. That, is what turns everyone off about Christianity. And all the stuff you mentioned before, that came from this section of the Bible were done, and written by people who became deceived by the Devil. And one other thing, when you hear other Christians sending people to Hell, that is wrong. Jesus said not to judge anyone. We have no right, power, or authority to send anyone anywhere, but judgmental Christians don't think about this.
You should not try to explain Christianity to me. You are mixed up on many things from what I can see. I don't know what Bible you read that from, or what type of (so called) Christian you herd that from, but you are totally messed up on this:
"If you were a Christian, you'd know Ha-Satan isn't evil nor did he give birth to evil nor is he the root of evil. His role has always been to test humanity's faith and resilience, at the bidding of YHWH. He can't and doesn't make anyone evil or create evil himself. He's not wandering around waiting to possess people and make them go have an orgy while eating babies. He's not "the Devil" nor does he control or send people to "Hell"."
He was first created as a Ark Angel named Lucifer. He turned into Satan when he became jealous of god, and desired to rule over the Universe. He deceived other angels into being his followers, and rebelled against God. God rebuked them, and created Hell as a place for them to reside. Satan is the creater of all evil, the deceiver, and the father of all lies. He does deceive people into doing wrong; he does try to have people possessed, and he has never had a role in God's plan to begin with. Furthermore, only Christ has the power to send someone to Heaven, or Hell, but he is not judgmental punishing.
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umm the old testiment is probably a bit more accurate than the new plus the bible has been re-written and changed so many times it is probably not even accurate stories anymore so yeah
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If thats the case, then why do doctors recommend people the HPV Vaccine, incase the person it is given to will have multiple partners?
Either way though, Saddam Hussein, and Bin Laden, were both children of a Muslim with many wives. They were never shown any love as children, and because of that, they became the way they did. Thats another reason why it's wrong.
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They recommend it because people do tend to have more than one sexual partner over the course of their lifetimes, and having multiple sexual partners who also have multiple sexual partners tends to up your risk of catching an STD through simple probability. Polygamy however has nothing to do with that, sleeping with lots of people because sex is cool and a nice thing to have (as long as it's safe and consensual) and having unprotected sex without knowing enough about your partner's sexual history has to do with it.
And that's not why they were evil, they were evil because they were evil. People get warped ideas that don't reflect on a whole group of people. Whether they were shown love as children or not, I'm fairly certain that polygamy had nothing to do with it. Can you bring me any studies showing that polygamy results in evil assholes? Until then, I'm going to blame society.
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I never take anyone who spits out the "F" word constantly, seriously, about that subject.
Also, they've been known to take wives under 14 years of age. Just saying.
Anyway, I've had enough of your "Foul-Mouthed" attitude, so I'm done talking with you.
Good day.
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I fail to see where I have spewed "fuck". Are you talking about the video? It's from South Park, that's all they do. Get a sense of humor, man.
And yeah, they do and I don't agree with it, that's super fucking creepy. But that's not exactly related if you want to talk about POLYGAMY. Also back in the day when people lived to be about 30 you had to get married at like 12 if you wanted to have enough offspring so the odds of one surviving were decent. Obviously, nowadays we live much longer (in developed countries at least) and so sticking to a... not tradition, but... whatever the word would be, isn't exactly a good idea, in fact, it's SUPER FUCKING CREEPY AND I WANT TO MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT I DO NOT CONDONE IT. But some places still cling very strongly to traditions and the general way things used to be done, and that's why. Again, not a good thing, but that's why.
Also why the quotes around foul-mouthed, and why the capitalization? Grammar, dude.
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"You sure as fuck implied it."
"I don't agree with it, that's super fucking creepy."
whatever the word would be, isn't exactly a good idea, in fact, it's SUPER FUCKING CREEPY AND I WANT TO MAKE IT PERFECTLY CLEAR THAT I DO NOT CONDONE IT.
...........
If you believe their is nothing wrong with polygamy, then obviously there's nothing wrong with you marrying a guy with three wives, is there?
I was tired, and I've been using them frequently lately.
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Well I didn't use it in the post above that one and I thought you were referring to that specifically. And anyways, who gives a shit if I curse or not? It's just a word, it doesn't hurt anybody! Fuck fuckity fuckfuckfuck.
And well legally there sure is something wrong since you know that's not legal in America and yeah, I don't like polygamy and personally want a monogamous relationship. But there's different cultures out there that DO allow it, and if it's not directly, clearly hurting anyone or promoting inequality or unfairness, who are we to say "you can't do that"? Imposing your beliefs on others is a dick move, man. And honestly, I think it's really really stupid to care too much about what other people do with their personal/sex lives if it's not hurting anyone and it's all consensual.
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Being a woman, shouldn't you of all people find a problem with that word? Considering I'm a guy, and I'm absolutely disgusted with it?
It's hurting the women of that culture, and turning them into slaves.
Yeah, your right there's nothing wrong with that.
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...Okay wait one fucking second. Are you implying that because I'm a girl, I should be horrified by cursing?
And no, it is not necessarily! If a girl is being married off and basically used as a commodity and isn't marrying someone because they love them? Yeah, that's wrong! But if people love each other and are okay with having other people in that relationship, then there isn't a problem with that! People do it all the time!
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No. You do realize what the meaning behind the f word is, right?
Are we as humans, going to lower ourselves to an animals level? Because, lions, cattle, and many other animals were ment to breed that way. If humans were ment for that kind of relationship, then there would be far more females then males in the population.
You did read this right? [link]
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Yeah, it means fucking. Sex. That's a pretty nice word in my opinion.
And um, humans ARE animals! We have desires and wants and needs and feelings and that's just how it is! Really I think you are being very sex negative here. :/
And look, I agree that all of that sucks, and really it's part of why I'm not religious: the refusal of religion to ADAPT to a modern society is what really bothers me, and adapting to a modern society includes better treatment of women. THAT'S what the problem is.
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I personally think that, being the most intelligent beings on Earth, we should act better then the lower species of animals. But, if thats what you believe, then thats fine.
I'm a clean guy with morals. That's why you're thinking that.
Well, the thing is, religion is not a custom, nor a tradition. It is (usually) the worship of a supreme being, who created the Universe. If you look at it that way, it becomes necessary. But if you don't believe that, of course religion becomes unnecessary in peoples eyes.
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Lower species of animals? we are no-where near the food chain and do not think of animals as a lower species, that is just a way to become arrogant and hurtful
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I read your comment, walked up to my cat and told her, "I am superior to you in every way." She didn't make any indication that she was paying attention, cared, or (obviously) understood. How the heck can you be hurtful or arrogant when you're talking about animals? Telling another person that you're above them is arrogant and hurtful, but an animal? That makes no sense.
Humans ARE at the top of the food chain. We may not be the biggest, fastest, strongest, or have the most acute senses, but we are the smartest. Is there anything more deadly than a gun? Come on, in Africa there is a native tribe (it's either the where some of it's members are known as lion killers. They earn that title by killing a lion with a club, it's usually in self defense, but still. I'd say that puts humans at the top of the food chain.
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took you this long to respond? fail. i cant wait till you die and if your god exists you will probably find your views were wrong in every way and it will probably be
A) a woman
B) created humans for more than hating other people so you fail that test
C)An animal lover
and you are telling me animals don't understand humans? no your cat does not understand you, all the animals I know and have owned understood me without words. and you say telling an animal you are above them makes no sense? seriously? every living thing on this planet is equal, no better, or worse than each other, we kill other species for survival as a nessecity that does not make us better and before you tell me how superior humans are please remember humans are animals too....that evolved from a species closely related to apes so technically you are calling yourself a lower lifeform. meh you wont listen to me anyway just get of your high horse and stay away from this stamp as the owner made it because he hates how hateful YOU are to everyone else and are a close minded fuck good day to you sir.
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I'm sorry, I'm not on as often because I'm to busy doing things that actually matter.
Ok. Let's get something strait. A God is a God. Not a man, not a woman, a God.
Second. That's right, we shouldn't be hating on each other. But, we aren't perfect, we're human. And for your information YOU restarted this argument when it was over months ago.
Third. No duh. Why do they exist then? Obviously since we're made to eat meat and have higher brain functions so they are still lower than us.
"and you are telling me animals don't understand humans? no your cat does not understand you, all the animals I know and have owned understood me without words. and you say telling an animal you are above them makes no sense? seriously? every living thing on this planet is equal, no better, or worse than each other, we kill other species for survival as a nessecity that does not make us better and before you tell me how superior humans are please remember humans are animals too....that evolved from a species closely related to apes so technically you are calling yourself a lower lifeform. meh you wont listen to me anyway just get of your high horse and stay away from this stamp as the owner made it because he hates how hateful YOU are to everyone else and are a close minded fuck good day to you sir."
Wow. Humanity is doomed.
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How does not having sex when we want to = being better than animals that do?
And oh man oh man, equating morality with sexual behavior? That's really upsettingly sex negative. :C You need to learn to be more sex positive! Here's a good place to start learning!
And religion should be able to adapt too. If God wants us to keep on advancing as a society and still scream THANK YOU at him for making us (assuming any supreme being(s) did create the universe and that they do in fact want us to constantly thank them for it over and over (awfully conceited...)), then he should let us bend a few rules and stuff. Anyone who writes anything and expects it to last knows to make it editable! Just look at the Constitution!
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Ah, forget it.
No offense but, I'm not interested in any of that! I'm not saying it's a bad thing. I'm saying, I don't think it's right to abuse it, or just play around with it. For instance, I'm staying virgin until, I find someone to marry. That would be after I'm 18 by the way.
All he wants, is for us to carry out his will. And he is not conceited either. He just wants us to love him in return. Is that so much to ask? If it is, than I guess we're all hypocrites for loving our parents.
And how are we supposed to worship him? Pray to him. Ask him to lead us in the right direction. Become close to him. Ask him for his help. Ask him for forgiveness for the sins we committed. Follow his teachings. Read the Bible every Sunday, or go to church.
Some of it may be difficult, but the right way is never easy, it's definitely worth it though. At least it is to me.
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And yeah, that's your choice and that's cool!
And lots of parents want their kids to carry out their wills, and a lot of them get hated by their kids later for it (see: stage moms xD) I guess God really is like a parent then xD
And yeah, if you want to, then go for it man. Worship the invisible man in the sky however you want and however much you want! And I don't mean that sarcastically, I think it's fine to worship God and stuff. I just think it's important that you remember that the way you worship God isn't the way everyone does, or everyone should! People are all different and everyone has a right to believe what they want, as long as it isn't hurting anyone else. And Islam itself doesn't necessarily hurt anyone else. That's all I'm saying.
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Yeah, that makes some sense. Personally though, I think anyone who hates, or dislikes their parents should read this. [link]
I understand that. Very good point.
Thank you for being a reasonable person.
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Polygamy is not polygyny, and is not inherently turning women into slaves. Many people here in the US are in polyamorous (since you can't get married to multiple people) relationships and are just fine. There's nothing wrong with polygamy or polyamory.
The HPV vaccine is for EVERYONE, not just people who have multiple partners, because HPV is extremely common (in fact, more common in men than women). The vaccine is to prevent cancer. It's not just for people who've had more than one partner, it's for everyone regardless of sexual history or intent, because it prevents cancer.
You know what else "spreads disease"? Anything to do with other people. Literally. You can't start restricting people's love lives just because "it could spread disease" because it doesn't matter what people do - disease will be spread. Your anti-sex rhetoric won't change that and it sure as hell won't help prevent disease since your type of bullshit is the CAUSE of high contraction rates - because you assholes won't tell people about contraception and safe sex practices.
And of course, you didn't say shit about birth defects. Still waiting for your proof of "birth defects". Here's a hint: contracting something isn't a birth defect.
That being said - even two virgins having a kid will spread disease and birth defects, their own inborne diseases. Me having kids would give them depression, regardless how of many or how few partners I ever have in my life. I'd probably have seizures and severely harm the fetus during pregnancy, causing even worse issues. Am I not allowed to get married now, according to you? Because I "spread disease and cause birth defects"? You'll have to stop the majority of the human population from getting married.
Also you're a despicable person for assuming Muslims abuse their children.
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And you're an ignorant piece of scum, who thinks he knows all the answers.
Forget it. I'm tired of arguing with the likes of you.
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S'funny you say that considering you're the one going around calling everyone who disagrees with you names and refusing to back up anything you say.
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That was the first insult I have given anyone here (and the last). And, the word "asshole" seems to be pretty familiar, if I check comment history. You are a hypocrite.
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Actually, no, you've been insulting from the start
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> (men of a religion born from hate)
> Gee, I wonder why 'Christian' Europe decided to go to war, and drive the Muslims out?
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> But, go on, give me a snarky reply just because I'm "religious". -_-
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> So this is what an agnostic is like. Glad I'm not one.
> Why are you even defending Islam? I thought you were agnostic
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> there is no point in arguing with someone who has only known ignorance there entire life.
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> this ignorant as fuck whole post lol
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> What I'd expect from a semi-troll/jerk.
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> I've heard exactly the opposite, about tolerance, from Muslims themselves.
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> more ignorant shit
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> Furthermore, if you were a Christian,
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> If your going to ask, " Whats wrong with polygamy?" I'm no longer going to take you seriously.
> they were still former Jews, and they still had failings.
> You should not try to explain Christianity to me.
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> Forget the discussion about muslims, you are totally MESSED UP.
> YOUR MIND IS CLOUDED BY ARROGANCE, AND YOU ARE NOT HUMBLE AT ALL. YOU ARE CONFUSED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS, IT WOULD TAKE ME A YEAR TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU.
> So if you learn it the right way
> I'm no longer going to continue this conversation because you understand nothing,
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> The real problem here is you are Anti-Christianity, and misguided about the truth about Christianity, so that is why there is no point in arguing with you.
> Personally, you're on level with an Atheist, in my opinion.
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> I'll be sure to add you in my prayers again.
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> I never take anyone who spits out the "F" word constantly, seriously, about that subject.
> Anyway, I've had enough of your "Foul-Mouthed" attitude, so I'm done talking with you.
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> Being a woman, shouldn't you of all people find a problem with that word?
> Yeah, your right there's nothing wrong with that.
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> And you're an ignorant piece of scum, who thinks he knows all the answers.
> I'm tired of arguing with the likes of you.
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> I'm a clean guy with morals. That's why you're thinking that.
Funny how you try and call me a hypocrite when you're the one making hateful commentary then trying to say you "don't hate anyone".
But, no, I'm not a hypocrite for showing you up where you've fallen flat on your face. Ad hominem doesn't mean name calling. Ad hominem means name calling without any point. And you never had any point.
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> "Are you serious? Less than half of those would be considered insults."
I didn't say they were all insults, I said they were all made with insulting intentions.
> "And a few others I didn't even say. (How do I know that? Because I don't cuss.)"
I quoted directly from you. But reading your post made me realize you thought my summaries of your posts were quoting you. Are you really that fucking dense?
> "Sarcasm actually."
No shit? You were being purposely vitriolic about Muslims as a general, "okaying" a massacre.
As for the rest, yes, you were being condescending, hateful, nasty, sarcastic, slighting, insulting. Hence why I said, "Actually, no, you've been insulting from the start", and that you had no room to talk about how others were treating you when you are far from innocent.
> "How can you even think about considering that an insult?! It's a gesture of kindness for crying out loud!"
You said it for the purposes of spite. You were intending to make me angry, to upset me. It was not a "gesture of kindness", it was a gesture of spite and arrogance . If I had been sick and you said, "you'll be in my prayers", that would be different. But instead, I disagreed with you, expressed negativity towards your religion, so you said "so I'm gonna pray for you" because you didn't like it. It is NOT a gesture of kindness to bulldoze over someone's feelings, demand someone FORCE them to change, not so subtly call them stupid, and purposely try to get their goat. Don't pull that shit on me. The Backhanded Compliment - It's a thinly veiled dick move christfags like you always try to pull, trying to hurt people but lauding how "good" you are for "praying" for someone.
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Are you foreign? You don't know what dense means?
> "Well, you've been insulting me as well, so nor do you have any room to talk."
I didn't say I did, I said, that you're not innocent whatsoever.
> "Ever considered that they actually ment it?"
Don't pull that. You said it with antagonistic intent, otherwise you wouldn't have mentioned it so spitefully. And by doing so you are intentionally disregarding and pushing aside my own beliefs. [link]
That is a fantasy caricature of Satan that was created for the purpose of causing hysteria against European Pagans. Good job.
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Look, everyone needs praying for. But, if you don't want it, than forget it. You, obviously have something against me, and (from what I've seen from the stamps on your page) you are a completely unreasonable person. Therefor, I literally am done arguing with you now.
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good job i was reading the whole thing, i dont mind religious people but i hate people like that, those are the kind of people that look at me strangely because im a goth and have hate when im with another girl (lesbian)
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Fundie Christians and Jews exist. The former here in America, the latter terrorizing Palestinians and other Jews in Israel. Your argument is invalid.
...What the fuck? Polygamy doesn't lead to birth defects and disease! Marrying more than one person doesn't do that you fucking moron. And it's actually perfectly legal in many countries, so what's your point? Christians were committing polygamy for the longest time - in fact nothing in the NT condemns it, except that priests can only have one wife.
The New Testament also says horrible things. Including God being judgmental and harsh and punishing. And the New Testament is based on the Old Testament and is still a part of the Christian canon, which is why it's in the Bible. There's nothing in the New Testament that outright says the Old Testament is a lie.
PS: How come "oh they had their failings!" works for your religion but not for Islam? After all, you were justifying the Crusades because "Muslims were mean!" and excusing the Crusades because "We're not perfect!" but neither of these excuses are given for the reverse.
No he was not named Lucifer. The only Lucifer in the Bible is a king of Babylon. That would be a human. Contrary to popular belief, angels were not once humans. Ergo, Lucifer is not Ha-Satan.
No he did not "turn into" Satan. He was always and still is Ha-Satan.
He didn't rebel yet. If you read the Bible, you'd know he's yet to have fallen, because the Bible says a number of things happens when he falls.
"Hell" is not in the Bible, it is a name stolen from the Roman Hel. There is only the Lake of Fire, which is where souls go to purify through burning. Ha-Satan doesn't rule "Hell" nor control it. When he falls, he will be sent to the Abyss.
He did not create evil. God created evil.
He doesn't deceive anyone. His job is to test people's faiths. He's meant to bring to light the darkness inside a person - he draws it out, if it's there and ready to controlled. That is his purpose - to sniff out the "bad guys".
Jesus is a judge. He's said some nasty things about what he'll do to you if you don't follow him. He tells people to abandon their families and cut off their body parts for him.
Learn your religion. Show me in the Bible where any of this you're saying is said. Or, wait, you believe the entire Old Testament is a lie - then from what does the New Testament base? Because after all the NT doesn't mention anything remotely akin to what you've said.
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"forget the discuission about muslims,...."
well....da thing ya tryin to forget IS da key man...
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> "Forget the discussion about muslims"
You forgot it a long time ago when you refuse to accept that they are also Abrahamic and have done nothing different than Christians or Jews.
> "Jesus routinely contradicted the Jewish scribes and priests"
He also encouraged them routinely as well. And his disciples did it doubly.
> "proving them to be hypocrites"
Really? Where? The only literal outing of hypocrisy I remembered reading was when he criticized the Roman government being in bed with their religion.
> "That is probably where you're getting this judgemental thinking."
Are you calling me judgmental, oh person who routinely spits antisemitism and islamophobia?
Or are you remarking upon Jesus's judgmental behaviour? 'Cause, nope, that's not it. I know when he's pointing out hypocrisy and when he's not - and "abandon your families or be damned" wasn't a statement about hypocrisy.
> "YOU TAKE THE BIBLE, WORD FOR WORD"
You excuse the Bible no matter what's wrong in it. You call people "false Christians" for "taking it too literally", but won't afford the same courtesy for Muslims.
> "AND DON'T THINK ABOUT WHAT JESUS COULD REALLY BE MEANING"
Oh lawl, you're one of those "no you're just not reading it right!" sort of people whenever someone points out something wrong with the Bible. Frith forbid your saints might have said something shitty, it must be a riddle.
> "YOUR MIND IS CLOUDED BY ARROGANCE, AND YOU ARE NOT HUMBLE AT ALL."
Says the person ranting and raving about how perfect their religion is and how anyone who isn't Christian is evil.
> "YOU ARE CONFUSED ABOUT SO MANY THINGS, IT WOULD TAKE ME A YEAR TO EXPLAIN IT TO YOU."
Typical christfag response. I ask you to cite your shit, you claim there's no point.
> "NO ONE knows everything about Christianity."
Yet you claimed to.
> "you understand nothing, and it would be a waste of too much of my time."
Look children, the dog is backing with tail twixt its legs, yet claiming they can fight "but just don't want to".
Funny how you say I "clearly know nothing" when all I did was ask you to prove to me anything you said was right.
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Ask a Catholic, or an Episcopal priest if you think you're so right, because obviously I'm never going to get anything through to you.
The real problem here is you are Anti-Christianity, and misguided about the truth about Christianity, so that is why there is no point in arguing with you.
Personally, you're on level with an Atheist, in my opinion.
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> "Ask a Catholic, or an Episcopal priest"
You whine that I'm biased and then you want me to ask a biased person for "the truth". Hurr.
I did ask a Catholic. They told me I couldn't masturbate, even though the Bible literally never says a damn thing about masturbation. And the Catholic Church is the one perpetuating all that stuff you condemn.
> "because obviously I'm never going to get anything through to you."
You've yet to make any attempt.
> "The real problem here is you are Anti-Christianity"
I didn't claim to be anti-Christianity.
How come this logic of "you point out negative things about the religion therefore you're a bad person" doesn't work with your antisemitism and islamophobia?
> "misguided about the truth about Christianity,"
You've yet to provide any sort of truth about anything, even when asked.
> "you're on level with an Atheist"
Wow look how loving and tolerant you are. What a good Christian. Jesus would be so proud.
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If your not even willing to listen to one who teaches the Christian religion, then ask a hermit. If you think you know more then them, then, you're basically saying, that you know more than the priests, the hermits, the disciples, the apostles, and every Christian I have ever met.
Masturbation is considered a lustful act. Lust is one of the 7 deadly sins, which are mentioned in the Bible. We are called, by God, not to sin.
You read Episcopal, too didn't you?
I have made several, but you've rejected, and dismissed every single one.
Does this seem familiar to you? ---> [link]
You want truth? Meaning facts? [link] [link] [link]
"My doctrine is not Mine, but His who sent Me. "If anyone wants to do His will, he shall know concerning the doctrine, whether it is from God or wether I speak on My own authority. "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; bug He who seeks the glory of the One who sent Him is true, and no unrighteousness is in Him. "Did not Moses give you the law, and yet knone of you keeps the law? Why do you seek to kill me?"
The people answered and said, "You have a demon. Who is seeking to kill you?"
Jesus answered to them, "I did one work, and you all marvel. "Moses therefor gave you circumcision (not that it is from Moses, but from the fathers), and you circumcise a man on the Sabbath. "If a man receives circumcision on the Sabbath, so that the law of Moses should not be broken, are you angry with Me because I made a man completely well on the Sabbath? "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgement." -7 John 7:11-16
Satan Tempts Jesus
Then Jesus was led up by the spirit to be tempted by the devil. And when He had fasted forty days and forty nights, afterward He was hungry.
Now when the tempter came to Him, he said, "If You are the Son of God, command that these stones become bread."
But He answered and said, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God'"
Then the devil took Him up into the holy city, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down. For it is written:
'He shall give his Angels charge concerning You,'
and,
'In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest You dash your foot against a stone'"
Jesus said to him, "It is written again, 'You shall not tempt the Lord your God.'"
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.
And he said to him, "All these things I will give You if You will fall down and worship me."
Then Jesus said to him, "Away with you, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the Lord your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"
Then the devil left Him, and behold, angels came and ministered to Him. -4 Mathew 5:2
I have nothing against you, or Atheists. In fact, God bless you. I'll be sure to add you in my prayers again. (And no. I don't pray harm for people, like the Baptists do.)
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You said I was a biased source, you told me to go to a biased source. No it doesn't work like that. I instead go to objective sources - the texts itself and theology majors. Of course, that being said, I've spoken with many religious people. So, lol.
> "Masturbation is considered a lustful act."
Citation? Masturbation is never mentioned in the Bible. Ever.
> "Lust is one of the 7 deadly sins, which are mentioned in the Bible."
Actually they're never in the Bible. Not anywhere.
There are two lists though that are similar, one in Proverbs that says nothing of Lust, and one in Galatians that is actually a deal longer and also says nothing of Lust, only of extramarital and premarital sex. The Seven was made up by the Catholic Church quite a deal after the Bible was established.
> "You read Episcopal, too didn't you?"
[link] What?
> "I have made several, but you've rejected, and dismissed every single one."
No you haven't. You just said "NO NO NO YOU'RE WRONG!!!"
> "Does this seem familiar to you?"
What about it? The group is anti-gay and rejects Christians if they are or support LGBT people.
> Wiki article on Lucifer which says:
Use of the name "Lucifer" for the Devil stems from applying to the Devil what Isaiah 14:3β20 says of a king of Babylon whom it calls Helel (ΧΦ΅ΧΧΦ΅Χ, Shining One), a Hebrew word that refers to the Day Star or Morning Star (the Latin term[2] for which is lucifer)[3] This association developed in Early Christianity, in the 2nd or 3rd century.
In 2 Peter 1:19 and elsewhere, the same Latin word lucifer is used to refer to the Morning Star, with no relation to the Devil. In Revelation 22:16, Jesus himself is called the Morning Star but not "Lucifer", even in Latin (Vulgata stella splendida matutina)
[....]
The Christian demonology and belief in the devil dominated subsequent periods.[9] However, though the New Testament includes the conception that Satan fell from heaven "as lightning" (Luke 10:18; Rev. 12:7β10),[8] it nowhere applies the name Lucifer to him.
Yeah see that article says Satan was not originally called Lucifer and Lucifer was actually a King of Babylon, as I said.
Because he contrived "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the earth and resemble 'My power' on high", Satan-Sataniel was hurled down, with his hosts of angels, and since then, he has been flying in the air continually above the abyss.[7]
Also as I said.
> Article on Devil
The Hebrew Bible (or Old Testament) describes the Adversary (Ha-satan) as an angel who instigates tests upon humankind.
[...]
Texts make no direct link between the serpent that tempts Eve in the Garden of Eden from Genesis and references to a Satan in the first book of Chronicles[3] and in Job.[4] In Hebrew, the biblical word ha-satan (ΧΧ©ΦΈΧΧΦΈΧ) means "the adversary"[6] or the obstacle, or even "the prosecutor" (recognizing that God is viewed as the ultimate Judge). As much as the Devil exists in any form of Judaism, his role is as an adversary and an accuser which is assigned rather than assumed.
[...]
In mainstream Christianity the Devil is known as Satan and sometimes as Lucifer, although it has been noted that the reference in Isaiah 14:12 to Lucifer, or the Son of the Morning, is a reference to the Babylonian king.
As I said.
> Article on Satan
Satan (Hebrew: ΧΦ·Χ©ΦΈΦΌΧΧΦΈΧ ha-Satan), "the opposer",[1] is the title of various entities, both human and divine, who challenge the faith of humans in the Hebrew Bible. In Christianity the title became a personal name, and "Satan" changed from an accuser appointed by God to test men's faith to the chief of the rebellious fallen angels
[...]
From the fourth Century Lucifer is sometimes used in Christian theology to refer to Satan, as a result of identifying the fallen "son of the dawn" of Isaiah 14:12 with the "accuser" of other passages in the Old Testament.
[...]
Satan is also identified as the accuser of Job, the tempter in the Gospels [...] The Book of Revelation describes how Satan will be [future tense] cast out of Heaven [...] Ultimately [as in, eventually, not immediately following his casting out], Satan is thrown into the "Lake of fire", not as ruler, but as one among many, being tormented day and night forever and ever..
As I said.
Good job.
> 7 John 7:11-16
What's the point in posting this, again?
In fact it defeats your earlier point of the OT being "all lies" considering Jesus says it "kills him" if you don't intend to keep the laws. And of course, "judge with righteous judgment"... that's judging, idiot.
> 4 Mathew 5:2
The story of the test of Jesus's faith? Also do notice "devil" is not capitalized; you do know devil is an actual descriptive word, right? Meaning scoundrel, rascal, unsavory sort?
> "I have nothing against you, or Atheists."
And yet, you said, "you're on level with an atheist" contemptuously.
> "I'll be sure to add you in my prayers again. (And no. I don't pray harm for people, like the Baptists do.)"
Except praying to spite someone or to piss them off defeats the point of prayer.
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Then you have nothing to argue about muslims, if holy books are supposed to be taken WORD for WORD.
Whatever.
Ahuh, and what church were these people from?
[link] (United_States) <--- Make sure to add that, after you click the link.
Some would see it that way, some wouldn't.
Oh, it was a club. Nevermind then.
So it would seem. By the way, the Abyss, is another word for Hell (actually translated from Hades, which is greek, which was borrowed by the Jews).
That is, again, the Old Testament. Which is the entire reason God came to Earth, as Jesus, in the first place. Also, the New Testament clearly states that Satan and the Devil are the same being.
All taken from the teachings of the Old Testament profits. I don't know who you think is right, but I'm going to listen to God himself.
"Idiot" One more insult, one more hypocritical act. (Claps)
I thought you were going to say something like that. That is one of the places where Jesus tells the people, to actually follow their beliefs (if that is what they are), instead of ignoring them, and being hypocrites. He still intended to teach them the truth, but what's the point if they're just going to ignore his too? I said, he is not judgmental, but merciful. He still judges, he is God. But, we are not called to judge someones soul; we don't have the right, power, or authority to do so. That is what I ment.
Yes I know it is capitalised, I just wrote it the way I saw it. (Instead of focusing on grammer, why don't you actually stay on the subject, like any other rational person would.)
"Meaning scoundrel, rascal, unsavory sort?"
If you're trying to tell me the word, "Devil", means a number of different things, then LOOK. You know what context I'm using it in. And it is the name of the Evil One.
I'm definitely not a friend of any Atheist (or at least not the vocal jerks), but I don't hate them.
I was letting you know, I do not have a grudge against you. It wasn't ment to spite you. I literally ment what I said. But, if thats how you took it, then I have a question: What's wrong with you?
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You argued earlier that the Muslims were a religion formed from hate.
Later, you said that Religion changes over time, when you talked about how Christianity changed over time.
Maybe, perhaps, although born from fire, the Muslim religion has changed its course? You are the one acting as if religion doesn't change over time. You don't seem to understand your own arguments.
I was raised into a Catholic family, and I joke about religion being trolling with my friends all the time. Also, religion creates almost every major conflict in the world prior to 1900. It's true if you actually look back at it. Also, if you look at it, you're arguing as if you are a zealot. You don't seem to get it, but if anybody, you need to take the idea of religion a bit more lightly.
Also, stop flaming. Flaming is just as bad as trolling, and in your signature, you imply that you hate trolls.
And Dametora, you are being insensitive about somebody's ACTUAL BELIEFS. If he wants to slightly zealous, let him be zealous. You can't force him to think something one way or another. Your profile states that you are from the United States, so if anything, YOU of all people, should understand:
1. The Freedom of Speech
2. The Freedom of Religion
3. The Respecting of a Religious Establishment
And, if you think that I am trolling, keep in mind, that I came into this conversation upon my own will, attempting to create at the very least a slight understanding, as a third party that is pointing out the other two parties' problems.
Truthfully, the stamp's point is completely proven- Religion has forced both of you to start flaming each other. Flaming is caused as a direct result of trolling, and the only source of trolling is religion itself. Why? Because the rest of this entire conversation thread appears to be (At the very least, something very close to) a legitimate conversation, so the source of the trolling can't be either of you, and the stamp itself is a legitimate concept which I think is true.
P.S. I have Atheist, Christian, and other religious friends. We all agree that religion is the source of much strife, and so we get along, knowing this simple fact.
TL;DR- Stop arguing, both of you are arguing over a point where both of you refuse to budge. As it turns out, there's no real right or wrong. Just respect each other's opinions.
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Well, that was until ~pine told me about the modern interpretation of Islam. Since then I was no longer thinking that about them.
But, sure thing! Those are some very valid points. Alright I shall stop arguing.
Thanks for your comment.
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Oh, and if you're going to state that because I hide my age online, I don't have any legitimate weight behind my arguments, just to let you know, I only don't put it down for the same reason why I don't have a Facebook- I prefer to be Semi-Anonymous. I am fine if all my accounts have very similar names where they can tie the accounts together to realize they're all from the same person, I just don't want people tying my account directly to me. I don't necessarily want people to have instant access to all my information. Cuz that's just creepy.
P.S. I'm 17. I only am telling you this because you really should stop. But then again, does age REALLY matter?
TL;DR- I am Semi-Anonymous. Deal with it.
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