HOME | DD

zerotolorance — How not to Mary-Sue (Read the description)

Published: 2014-08-03 20:43:46 +0000 UTC; Views: 9999; Favourites: 44; Downloads: 29
Redirect to original
Description Now this is a topic I've been dealing with for some time that needs to be distressed. It's a very common problem you could find in a number of places and everyone has seen or has even been the cause at least once. I'm talking about overpowered, unoriginal, or poorly written characters be it fan made or original. This is something that has always bothered me, not because i believe it to be annoying, but because of the wasted potential due to some people not giving time and effort into their characters. why am I bringing this up now? Because something happened that shows just how bad something like this could get.

about a week ago a new acquaintance of mine had posted on a somewhat known deviants page by the name of Kechi. Kechi had recently posted a journal simply stating that his character is not a Mary-Sue..more on that later. My friend posted a reply on the journal with no intention to insult or hurt Kechi, but to simply tell him her opinion about the character and pointing out faults. Kechis reaction? insulting and yelling at her, then he deleted both the comments and the entire journal to hide the evidence and blocking my friend. My friend however, would not let these immature actions go so easily. She later posted a journal with details on what exactly happened and an extended version of her critique she posted on Kechis page. Kechis response? Making a journal insulting my friend even further and sending his blind goons after her with nary a reason and all the venom. He demanded the journal to be taken down and reported, acting like a toddler throwing a temper tantrum. A 20 something year old man sending mooks to attack a teenage girl, THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE.

more information on it here  fav.me/d7scnib


Everyone is entitled to an opinion and an idea with not one ever being the "Right" answer. some people may like a bit of column A while others prefer column B, that's the way it's always been and many people have learned to live with it. The thing is, even if you worked hard on your character and tried to iron out a good, clean character, it's always a good idea to listen to others opinions on your work. Think of it like a teacher grading your paper, pay close attention to what they say as it could lead to some useful advice that could better your work. I personally would appreciate people sharing their opinions and advice when it comes to my work and even encourage it, sure it might hurt a little, but it can better ourselves. 
Kechi chooses to ignore others opinions and anything that doesn't say "she's amazing" or "OMG I love her!" is an insult and must be terminated. Kechi and his goons took and twisted her words making her sound like some kind of bad guy and some of them even came in only insulting her and threatening her, demanding that she stopped and took the journal down. 

Neko had not once insulted or offended anyone in her journal, she only gave her honest opinion on the situation "I commented :a mary sue is not an real insult.It is simply describing a female character that is unoriginal,over powerd,rip off and down right a little Miss Perfect." ( XNekoCakeRawrX) does that sound like an insult to you? that sounds more like an explanation to me and the thing is she is right. you see the bio on Kechi up there? UNEDITED! i simply copied and pasted from Kechis bio on his own page. 

I'll let Neko summarize it for me 

"You make Kechi a goddes and a princess not to mention all forms an powers you gave her.

You made her french because apperently it's sexy but in reallity it's not gonna make your character any better.

You gave her M cups wich is way to much for a woman to handle.

You ripoff Sonic,Meroid,Kill la Kill etc. wich is unoriginal.

You character is a Mary-sue" 

that wasnt even an opinion, at this point it's just facts now. Kechi has no weakness, and every time one appears, he adds some bullshit to cover it up. 

Making a character is like baking a cake. There are a million and one different kinds of cake out there each made vastly different from the rest. you have to use just the right amount of ingredients for the cake to come out the way you want it. not too much, not too little.  Kechi, to put it bluntly, was adding way too many ingredients at once, spoiling the cake. then he adds way too much frosting in hopes of covering up the mess underneath. He then goes and adds pure solid fruits and other condiments as he pleases. that metaphor refers to ripping off diffrent franchises.


fav.me/d7r61awThat blue armor? looks a lot like Kill La Kill (Hell, Kechi La Kechi? Unoriginal)

fav.me/d6hskq3
A daughter that travels through space in power armor and works as a hunter? She even mentions the original source. 

the list goes on.

Don't get me wrong, it is okay to be inspired by a franchise and use ideas that you like. Hell he almost passed with the Metroid rippoff with his explanation of it. but the problem is he's using too much of it. 
If you like an idea, Good, if you want to use it, that's fine. Nearly every idea has been done by this point and inspiration is always the first step to an idea. but you cant just use the entire raw material. 
you need to piece it out, take what you like and what you dont like. Try to piece it back together and see what works and what doesnt and use the core element you want. 

Now a lot of you are probably wondering about the character on the right. Who is this character? what does she have to do with anything? am i trying to say my characters are much better than his? No im not. this isnt even my character, i just made her up on the spot inspired by what was in front of me.

inspired by what you may ask?

INSPIRED BY YOU, KECHI 

While I was looking at your profile, I was actually interested in a few ideas you put in your character. I took a handful of them and used them to create a brand new character, inspired by You, in honor of You. 
You dont need so many things to make a good character, you just have to give it some thought. And there's always room for improvment. and others can really help.

I'm not here to hurt you Kechi. I want to help. your character could be something amazing, she just needs a little work. 
go ahead and send your goons after me if you want, but you need to be honest with me here. 

im asking you. critique my character, tell me what you think needs worked. i wont mind.

Kechi belongs to

also a shout out to and for bringing it to my attention and filling me in on the details


Related content
Comments: 105

Fianna2016 [2017-06-22 11:19:31 +0000 UTC]

the bio from the mary sue is kiling my eyes

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

PiePenguinFun [2017-04-29 13:34:49 +0000 UTC]

I.CAN'T.READ.THE MARY-SUE's.DESCRIPTION

*internally struggling*

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to PiePenguinFun [2017-04-29 19:20:45 +0000 UTC]

all of it was copied and pasted from kechi's profile. too much information and all of it is garbage.


dont worry about reading it. as long as you get the point

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-23 02:32:50 +0000 UTC]

Could not read that fucking long ass description for that Mary-Sue. Got to 'Badnick' and I had to stop. I can't believe Kechi isn't a parody character.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-23 03:14:50 +0000 UTC]

it got worse

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AmberRosiePosie In reply to zerotolorance [2016-03-24 01:16:07 +0000 UTC]

Jesus, 80 LB? Is she filled with helium or somethin'? 

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

zerotolorance In reply to AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-24 03:43:30 +0000 UTC]

must be the balloon boobs. that and shes an airhead.
or maybe its because shes malnourished. look at her waist.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AmberRosiePosie In reply to zerotolorance [2016-03-24 15:56:23 +0000 UTC]

I know XD It's always the Mary-Sues that are skinny minis but than have huge boobs 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-24 16:09:46 +0000 UTC]

i blame fashion models

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AmberRosiePosie In reply to zerotolorance [2016-03-24 16:57:31 +0000 UTC]

*rolls eyes* I don't understand why skinny girls are so pretty, I think women who look like actual an actual woman are more beautiful rather than anorexic teenagers.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-24 19:36:03 +0000 UTC]

i prefer curvy women myself

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

AmberRosiePosie In reply to zerotolorance [2016-03-24 19:37:52 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, wish being on the heavier side was actually accepted.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-24 20:10:31 +0000 UTC]

youd be surprised how many people actually prefer it.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

AmberRosiePosie In reply to AmberRosiePosie [2016-03-24 01:17:01 +0000 UTC]

And damn, she's portrayed as this god-like hero, she puts her character on such a high-horse...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

piink-lemonade [2016-02-26 01:47:06 +0000 UTC]

This....helped me a lot. Even though this was made like 2 years ago, this really helped me out in making characters. Thank u~
~u~

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to piink-lemonade [2016-02-26 01:52:19 +0000 UTC]

your welcome

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

FoundationDown [2016-01-04 02:31:06 +0000 UTC]

I'm pretty sure my OC(really a persona) would probably be rated a B, or C...

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to FoundationDown [2016-01-05 01:33:26 +0000 UTC]

i didnt mean to imply a rating system. it's a statement to how a marysue can be a terrible character. dont judge yourself so quickly based on other peoples ideas.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

FoundationDown In reply to zerotolorance [2016-01-05 01:38:27 +0000 UTC]

Oh no, it's okay, I just think something is wrong with my OC. It's okay.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to FoundationDown [2016-01-05 19:41:06 +0000 UTC]

if you think your character needs improvment then by all means go ahead and improve them. only you are in charge of your character

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

SeaPaintProductions [2015-09-10 01:05:34 +0000 UTC]

Besides the point..
Did anyone else die at the Mary Sue's face?

It's the face that says: "Lel."

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to SeaPaintProductions [2015-09-10 23:13:55 +0000 UTC]

that's what I was going for by the way everything here was done by me. no copy/paste involved.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

SeaPaintProductions In reply to zerotolorance [2015-09-11 22:46:13 +0000 UTC]

Ok.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

segamarvel [2015-08-18 10:49:45 +0000 UTC]

A lot of people go on and on about how important it is that a character be flawed. This is not so. The reason flawless characters like Superman are popular is because a character doesn't need flaws; they need vulnerability. I think that no matter how "perfect" a character is, as long as you enjoy, relate, or basically just like that character, it doesn't really matter. I enjoy a lot of characters many call "Mary Sues" (Superman, Alicorn Twilight, Mickey Mouse ect) even if some don't because I could honestly care less about how many flaws a character has as long as I enjoy them.

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-17 09:08:39 +0000 UTC]

Alright then, Let's say you do enjoy this person's character;
Does that make their behavior, when faced with some critsism, acceptable?
Does not liking criticism mean a person should never have to learn from their mistakes and never have to improve?

A character may never be perfect but the person behind that character should certainly know better considering that he is over twenty and verbally attacked a thirteen year old, not to mention stold someone else art and ideas 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-17 09:21:17 +0000 UTC]

Now your just making assumptions. I have not stolen anyones ideas nor picked on them over it. I have a different opinion. Simple as that. Criticism is good and I have no problem with it. It just depends on how it's being used. If it ain't broke then don't fix it. I even have my own OC who's only a comic book clerk with no OP alicorn powers. I'm just saying that the term mary sue gets thrown around alot to the point where it has lost some of it's meaning. www.youtube.com/watch?v=qnokGc…

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-18 07:23:36 +0000 UTC]

I assume that a 20 year old should know better than that? Well, yes,i do.
Oh--I appologize if I was not clear enough; I was not referring to you, I was referring to this Kechi person. Kechi was the one who stold art and picked fights. His horrid behavior is what brought his beloved character under attack in the first place. He obsessed over it to the point of picking fights over some criticism.

The term mary Sue does get used a lot, but if the shoe fits...if the character is an over powered self insert, loved by all the best men and the canon women just hate her for it, and is a flawless heroin who masters everything at age 14 when every other character in the canon has had to go through years of training, well, that's describing the exact same character that gave the term it's name--Mary Sue.

Characters aside, there is a wrong way and a right way to handle things, and Kechi, (I think he's changed his profile name) handled things the wrong way. Calling 13 year old child a bitch in a journal? Come on, now. If it's not acceptable for even a teenager to treat people like this, oh, say Princesselizabeth013 for example, than what makes it acceptable for an adult man to handle himself this way?

(Hey, thanks, for the link--this is a pretty good clip, too! I never thought of Superman a Marty Stu but I have heard people call him that before. I have to remember all these points the next time it comes up.) 

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-18 07:28:33 +0000 UTC]

I think we are having a misunderstanding. I don't exactly disagree with you. See the reason I came to this page in the first place was because some superman hater linked this page to me saying Superman was a mary sue. I as a superman fan felt the need to mostly defend superman. I have no idea who those people that you said insulted a 13 year old are. I don't even have any connection with them whatsoever. But since you agree with the video I sent to you then we have nothing to argue about.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-18 08:56:37 +0000 UTC]

What kind of weirdo hates Superman?
I don't think the link you were given applies here, because kechi is a Sonic fan character; I don't see how she relates to Superman, because Superman is from a SuperHero universe where big powers are the norm. So someone led you wrong.
 
There has definitely been some misunderstanding here.  
And I agree with you--Superman should be better respected than that. Not liking a character doesn't make it a MarySue/Marty Stu.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-18 09:52:34 +0000 UTC]

That's good to hear. Superman is a great and loved character. If he wasn't he never would have lasted this long. Which is over 75 years. Superman has problems just like us despite his abilities. He is even relatable in some ways to if you really think about it. It's not easy being Superman. The Smallville series more then proved that. Nice to meet you by the way. Do you like superman to?

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-18 10:17:15 +0000 UTC]

Over 75 years? Dang! That's amazingly close to an entire century!!

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-18 10:34:23 +0000 UTC]

Also I like to think that this song defines him for me quite nicely. www.youtube.com/watch?v=QNEAvt…

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-21 09:57:06 +0000 UTC]

Whew! What a voice! very nice!
It starts a bit slow but once it picked up the pace, it was actually pretty good!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-21 09:58:57 +0000 UTC]

Agreed. Did you noticed all the hidden messages in the words of the song?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-28 11:15:14 +0000 UTC]

Had to watch a few times to catch everything.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-18 10:25:32 +0000 UTC]

I know right!? If People don't even bother to really read a superman comic then here's the next best thing and it's really freaking simple. Put. Yourself. In. His. Shoes. Now what do you have? At first I would be having the time of my life.... and then it sets in how utterly screwed I am. I can never look at my mom the same way again without the risk of burning her face off or freaking out about seeing through her bones. I'd be afraid that the next time I sneeze I might hurt everything around me. I can't take the time to have fun and flie because I might hit a bird or a plane. Then we got bullies. I can't ever risk fighting back. Ever. Not to mention I really REALLY hate bullies. So it would be easy for them to piss me off. Then I will freak out if my own government notices me and sees me as nothing more then a test subject under a microscope. Did I forget to mention the super hearing lets me listen to all the crying and wars going on? Superman is a positive figure but he's still not all funny sunshine and rainbows 24/7.

See? Really well thought out and more complex then you would peg someone with superman's powers. If I did have these powers then it would be both a curse and a gift.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-18 10:34:52 +0000 UTC]

Um, perhaps we should continue talking by commenting on profiles, I feel like we are being rude to Zerotolerence.
I'll respond to this on your profile.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-18 10:38:04 +0000 UTC]

Sure thing. I was just about to say the same thing.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-21 09:57:53 +0000 UTC]

Alright then.  

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-21 10:00:58 +0000 UTC]

Crap I just realized we are still talking on this page!

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-28 11:15:41 +0000 UTC]

yeah, we should stop already.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-18 10:15:45 +0000 UTC]

Gotta admit, he makes it hard for other heros to measure up to him. Superman is forever iconic, so those antifans can just suck on that.
Hello, there!
 I'm not an actual fan, But I do know a bit about Superman, and I do hold plenty of respect to him as a great character. But to be honest, i'm more familiar with Batman and X-men; the older ones, not these newer movie versions.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-18 10:19:30 +0000 UTC]

That's nice to hear. To be honest Spider-man is my number 1 favorite and Superman is number 2. That's right Superman is liked that closely for me even compared to a guy whose whole purpose was to be relatable.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-21 09:48:56 +0000 UTC]

I always felt like Spiderman had it kind of tough. He always seemed more humble compared the the great powers of other heros, but he always worked with what he had. I've been waiting forever for his two friends to join him in the movies. One was Iceman, and I have trouble remembering her name. It was like Starfire--it might have been FireStar.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

segamarvel In reply to LuckyLadyXandra [2015-09-21 09:56:40 +0000 UTC]

Your right it was firestar. They had a show called spider-man and his amazing friends.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

LuckyLadyXandra In reply to segamarvel [2015-09-28 11:11:36 +0000 UTC]

I had a cassette with them too. It was so much fun to watch.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

zerotolorance In reply to segamarvel [2015-08-19 01:19:31 +0000 UTC]

first of all how is mickey mouse a mary sue? when was he ever considered over powered? that's like saying Bugs Bunny is overpowered.
also I had to look up alicorn twilight. I'm not one to watch mlp so please refrain from pony terminology as I am not familiar with it.

second. you do realize that vulnerability in itself is a flaw right?

lets put things in another perspective for you. why do you like these characters? is it because of their powers? is it their universe or their place in the world. odds are neither of those things. what you like is the character. and nothing builds a character better than his or her own flaws. to accept that something isn't perfect is when we feel that we can connect to it. The first example you bring up is superman and your argument was that he doesn't need flaws, only vulnerability. The thing is that flaw is what made him vulnerable in the first place and allows us to connect to him via said vulnerability. it doesn't even have to be a physical flaw but rather mentally or emotionally too. such as how super man has to bear the weight of metropolis on his shoulders not to mention the emotional baggage from lois lane and the loss of krypton. hell even the injustice series really shows just how much superman can take before he snaps of which people can relate to when it comes to the loss of a loved one and the feeling of failure or loss of control.


in other words. technically you are correct, but in order to connect and like a character we first have to feel sympathy with them, and the only way to feel that is if you can find something about them to latch on to, which is always a flaw. 

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

segamarvel In reply to zerotolorance [2015-08-19 01:48:09 +0000 UTC]

Sorry just sent the comment to the wrong person.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

zerotolorance In reply to segamarvel [2015-08-19 03:36:59 +0000 UTC]

yeah...sure... 

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

segamarvel In reply to zerotolorance [2015-08-19 04:04:35 +0000 UTC]

.....Seriously? Was that emoticon needed? That's kinda insulting. BTW sorry if that came off as rude. I gave an opinion. That's it. I may have worded it wrong here and there but you know what I mean't.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0


| Next =>