HOME | DD
ShanahaT — Sally's Mary Sue test (a visual guide)
#analize #marysue #sallyacorn #test
Published: 2018-09-29 18:01:02 +0000 UTC; Views: 8473; Favourites: 106; Downloads: 15
Redirect to original
Description
For those who are encountering this for the first time, this is actually a test for an upcoming project I am working on.This is also a visual incarnation of an article I made a couple months ago, here's a link to the written version.
www.deviantart.com/shanahat/ar…
I recommend reading it if you want the specifics on what the panels are proving.
It should also be mentioned that I bring up stuff here that I didn't adress in the written article.
For example, I bring up more of Sally's embarrassed moments here then failures in this visual guide,
but in the written version I bring up her failures more.
And that one part I show in the perfectly nice portion is a moment from issue 173 that shows how not being perfectly nice can be a good thing for a character. (when it's done right)
Also, that part where Sally is hugging Hope was written by Karl Bollers. Just wanted to point that out.
Lastly, it should be mentioned that this portfolio (like the written article) uses the official Mary Sue index made by IDRlabs.
Here's a link to it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=cRW1--…
That's all for now. And stay tuned for that upcoming project I mentioned.
Sally is copyright
Related content
Comments: 43
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
Yep this too proves once again, sally is NOT a mary sue so peeps say she is can shut the F^^^^ up
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
dude, don't spam that thing here.
I saw it the first time. What the hell is your problem?
and they are a load of shit anyway.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I only known her from the cartoon(which is not a favourite of mine but it's passable and had some good stuff) I didn't really like her there but I didn't think she was the absolute pinnacle of desperately wanting an awesome female that some haters say she is.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
So you only know the Satam show version.
The version that didn't have an explanation for her abilities,
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
It is not very long to be fair before it was canned
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
for this chart, proving she is not a Mary Sue
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Ok then, your welcome.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Fantastic chart. Basically rounds up nearly all the reasons why I love her.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Sally is not mary sue.
I read the comic and show Sally teaching Hope to be a positive person
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
I'm honestly repulsed by the argument that she's a Sue. It totally comes from the fact that she's from an unfamiliar continuity and has a centrality there which isn't present anywhere else. Just because Mobius ain't one's flavor of tea doesn't give them the right to bash the world for things that aren't true of it. It's a grasp at straws, really.
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
You know whats another b.s. Complaint that needs to be debunked
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I'm sure there's plenty.
What is it?
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
The "archie sonic is a man whore/womanizer" argument.
Claiming that sonic dated several girls at the sane time when im almost positive that NEVER happened
So you could make a chronological list of the instances sonic starts dating someone, when he breaks up with them, and when sonic starts a new relationships, including all the times sonic and sally broke up and made up.
So for example
Sonic × Sally #1: issue#?-#?
Sonic × Mina: issue#?-#?
Sonic × Sally #2: issue#?-#?
Sonic × Fiona: issue#?-#?
Etc.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I can sum that up in one sentence.
The relationship chaos only occurred in the early to mid 2000s.
and that's it.
Every other period is clean of that criticism.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
I still feel like a chart or graph of sorts for the many Archie-Sonic relationships for sonic would be nice.
That way people know the truth
👍: 1 ⏩: 0
I would throw in the extra category that reliance on others (as an extension of the perfect/flawless/overpowered) is something a Mary-Sue doesn't have. And I don't necessarily mean that the person utilizes others like, for instance, overcoming being in 2 places at once/doing things simultaneously but actually being dependent on another for their goal which in itself validates the other character(s) to be more than just the admiring audience or damsels for the Mary-Sue to awe and/or rescue.
I'm sure there're some direct moments she's expressed a particular need for Sonic and his speed to get somewhere or delegated an assignment to Rotor to figure out a problem because he's the tech guy not her and expressed that no other route could be taken to get there.
P.S. As an example of how pure nicey-nice she may or may not be, in both the show and the comic, at a moment where Sally was intending or was put on the spot to say something nice about Antoine, all she could do was glorify some base detail about him as if to say even she thinks he's an unremarkable dork. In "Fed Up with Antoine", Sonic calls her bluff to say something good about him and she nervously retreats while saying, "well yes...he umm...he..has good hair..." while in a moment in the comic, she's sitting with her newly restored mom and is discussing her friends when she gets around to Antoine and can only muster to think up that he has a great French accent to which they both amusedly giggle.
👍: 1 ⏩: 2
I don't think those moments mean much.
Those first and third moments are just Sally joking around, that would count more toward the personality category.
That second one though is Sally struggling to find something nice to say about Antione. That wouldn't count for anything.
👍: 1 ⏩: 1
It would interrupt her "perfect kind". In the comic example it ultimately comes off like a joke at his experience while the show example at best shows her diplomacy a little.
Also, those were additional examples to lump in since I said they lend to whether or not she is one of the categories.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
That comic one is just a joke about his abilities, and the show one is Sally struggling to think of something nice to say.
Diplomacy or not, I still don't think they contribute to the perfectly nice category.
What matters most is weather or not a character does something about the people around them, not what they think.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Either way, they show her not to be necessarily an angel especially if she has the same ribbing nature as Sonic. In fact his response after her comment about his hair was, “pfft...yeah right.”
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
No, because that would contradict the overpowered and Never fails categories.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Umm...I don't think you got the point of my comment. I'm saying that a Mary-Sue doesn't rely on others because it goes with their overpoweredness, perfection, and never failing. Sally not only has limits, isn't flawless, has failed, but has also been dependent on others which shows that she doesn't have every skill/asset in the book allowing her to do things singlehandedly. Patricia Smith (the creator or Lt. Mary Sue) listed amongst the criteria that they're someone who's good at everything from Art to Zoology and saves the day by their skill alone.
Just to spell it out: I'm naming another category to what constitutes a Mary-Sue and noted Sally could easily pass it.
Additionally, I was adding onto my first comment before you responded so I don't know if you saw the revision before this response...
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I guess I didn't see the revision.
But I still don't think that category is necessary though.
Because weather or not one would need others to succeed is still part of the overpowered category.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
I don't agree. Take the most recent Mary-Sue: Rey from Star Wars. She's overpowered in the Force but that doesn't mean she knows every skill. Granted, in regards to her, the fact she's got all the boxes checked, pilot, mechanic, Force-wielder, etc. usually leaves her declared "over-powered" but I segregate those two categories. In your example, you showed Sally getting training as argument that her skills didn't come from nowhere but it didn't quite debunk that she's a Renaissance (Wo)Man of all things and would therefore not need others when it came to some field of expertise.
Superman is overpowered because he can do too many super things and how depending on the writer but that doesn't make him unreliant on supporting characters because a super-sleuthing intellect isn't exactly in his wheelhouse nor is being a magic wielder since magic is one of the 3 things he's vulnerable/weak to.
So I submit that Overpowered (shrugs adversity off or way too high to even call it adverse), Flawless (as in no negative qualities like being ugly or disabled), Without Fail (meaning wins rather than loses), and Overqualified (as in deus-ex skillset) all hold equal standard. Also, her relying on others can equally lend to her humility if she's not embarrassed to ask or can swallow her pride and do so even if her lack of ability counts as a flaw.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
Well if you feel that way, then I recommend talking to IDRlabs about it.
I don't think they'll agree as well, but by all means talk to them about it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
You've done quite the amount of research into the problem. I can only admire that, especially considering characters like Sally, Cosmo and Elise are "hip" to hate in this fanbase. I feel that the term "Mary Sue" is used less to describe a poorly written character and more as an insult to female/male characters that the person doesn't enjoy.
I think we'll have to search the origin of the term to find its meaning once more:
The term "Mary Sue" comes from the name of a character created by Paula Smith in 1973 for her parody story "A Trekkie's Tale". As she states, "Mary Sue stories—the adventures of the youngest and smartest ever person to graduate from the academy and ever get a commission at such a tender age. Usually characterized by unprecedented skill in everything from art to zoology, including karate and arm-wrestling. This character can also be found burrowing her way into the good graces/heart/mind of one of the Big Three, if not all three at once. She saves the day by her wit and ability, and, if we are lucky, has the good grace to die at the end, being grieved by the entire ship."
"Mary Sue" today has changed from its original meaning and now carries a generalized, although not universal, connotation of wish-fulfillment and is commonly associated with self-insertion, though the characterization of upstaging the established protagonist(s) of existing properties remains fundamental. True self-insertion is a literal and generally undisguised representation of the author; most characters described as "Mary Sues" are not, though they are often called "proxies" for the author. The negative connotation comes from this "wish-fulfillment" implication: the "Mary Sue" is judged as a poorly developed character, too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting.
The research you've made is quite reasonable and has a decent background from all Archie issues. I wonder if more research can be done to disprove the Mary Sue stigma for other characters in the franchise.
Something I really want you to do is to try and find incriminating evidence, something a "hater" would do to disprove your point, and then tear that apart as well.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
God damn, Sally has gone through so much abuse yet she still persists in her goals by making selfless sacrifices and overcoming the obstacles by any means necessary. The poor girl deserves way more respect than how everyone treats her. She just cant get a break either in the comics or outside of it.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
Why do they think she is some kind of Mary Sue? I think she outshines Disney Princesses to be honest. At least she had adversity in her life to deal with to become the person she had to be. I think she is a great role model. You did a good job with the demonstration.
👍: 0 ⏩: 1
People on the internet rip her over Archie 134 for the slap she gave to Sonic even though the whole thing, (while not the best action Sally did) was blown way out of both proportion and context. That's ignoring other actions by other characters that are way worse than the slap.
Ironically though, the slap idea was created by one of the artists at the time Johnathan Gray (Not Karl Bollers: the head writer at the time of that issue) who was a Sonamy fan who purposefully wanted the slap so that Sonic and Sally would break up and that Sonic and Amy could be together. However, that was foiled when SEGA took notice and put the hammer down on the situation.
It was not only flat out wrong as a bias towards Sally and disregard for her traits, but it was poorly setup and executed for the sake of changing a relationship.
👍: 0 ⏩: 0
