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AndreOF-Gallery — Hateg Basin Chart

#zalmoxes #balaur #telmatosaurus #magyarosaurus #paludititan #haetg #hatzegopteryx
Published: 2018-05-15 21:14:39 +0000 UTC; Views: 17015; Favourites: 130; Downloads: 42
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Description After a long time I post a non-cladogram non-journal post, you probably will like this a bit more since 12 of you chose it

Notes:
01-Elopteryx here is restored based on a Velociraptorine skeleton even if I classify it as a Unenlagine because other possible Laurasian Unenlagines have been found as Velociraptorines. And they weren't fish specialists as their Gondwanan relatives.
02-Struthiosaurus has no armor because the study about its armor was done for S.austriacus rather them S.transylvanicus, and I'd just split those cause 15 million year gap.
03-There is possibility of a giant dromie and troodont from Hateg, the first is know from skull bones and the second only by teeth. I'm not going to scale the dromie and I'm not messing with tooth taxa.

Species that were omitted:
01-Abelisauroid: Fossilworks lists an abelisauroid femur from Hateg, but when I checked out it was either the or part of Bradycneme holotype. Megalosaurus hungaricus may be an Abelisaurid but it is a tooth taxa and I'm not messing with those.
02-Bradycneme: it is dubious, papers even refereed to it as "Bradycname" so I decided not adding it.
03-Doratodon: waned to add this one but its phylogenetic placement is problematic and so I decided moving it to the bench.
04-Dracula: fuck it, there is no paper and it is from the same place and time as Hatzegopteryx.
05-"Magyarosaurus" hungaricus: it is much larger them the rest of the fauna, it may be from a time before where Hateg may not have been an island or from latest Maastrichtian where Hateg got larger because of sea level drops. Besides that we don't know if it is Magyarosaurus and I didn't had a clue from which taxa I would scale it, so it will not show up.
06-Richardoestesia teeth: we never know what it can be microraptorine, halszkaraptorine or even crocodile.
07-Troodontid teeth: say no to tooth taxa scaling.

Acknowledgement:
     &  for helping me to scale Magyarosaurus.

References:
Blanco et al., 2014 for the Allodaposuchus skeleton.
CAU, Andrea; BROUGHAM, Tom; NAISH, Darren; 2015 for the Balaur skeleton.
Greg Paul (Princeton Field Guide to Dinosaurs, 2016) for the Telmatosaurus (Tethyshadros)
Mark Witton's Zhejiangotperus, Quetzalcoatlus and Hatzegopteryx skeletons, the first used for the torso and appendicular skeleton, the second for Eurazhdracho neck and skull and the later for its own (markwitton-com.blogspot.com.br… ) (markwitton-com.blogspot.com.br… )
for Elopteryx (Velociraptor), Struthiosaurus (Europelta), Heptasteornis (Mononykus) Magyarosaurus (Rapetosaurus) and Zalmoxes skeletons
&  for Paludititan (Nemegtosaurus silhouette) and for scaling it respectively
Related content
Comments: 53

Spearien [2021-12-17 16:24:44 +0000 UTC]

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Spearien [2021-12-17 19:53:21 +0000 UTC]

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Spearien In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2021-12-17 21:10:14 +0000 UTC]

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Spearien [2020-12-01 18:08:51 +0000 UTC]

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Spearien [2020-12-01 21:42:28 +0000 UTC]

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Spearien In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2020-12-02 14:17:51 +0000 UTC]

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Spearien [2020-12-02 15:21:37 +0000 UTC]

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Spearien In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2020-12-02 18:34:56 +0000 UTC]

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Spearien [2020-12-02 18:45:39 +0000 UTC]

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deinocheirusmaster [2019-06-11 03:19:00 +0000 UTC]

Is there a paper or study on this dromeosaur and troodont skull fragment you mentioned?

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to deinocheirusmaster [2019-06-11 19:57:04 +0000 UTC]

There are but I just don't know which ones; I come to know these taxa when someone posted those in discord.

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ak1508 [2019-02-20 12:14:08 +0000 UTC]

Where did you find the sizes for the sauropods? I intend to make either Paludititan or MAgyarosaurus sculpture, but need to be sure about a reliability of size estimates, as most I find out there are 6 meters in length for Mag, but this one here you say is 8.8. I also tried backtracking in HArtman's folders and coudln't find the reference either, may have missed soemthing or it might no longer be there? Could you direct to the source please? 

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to ak1508 [2019-02-20 13:09:02 +0000 UTC]

I made those on my on.

Magyarosaurus: I scaled it based on the length of the midshaft of the largest Magyarosaurus dacus (humerus?) compared to the humerus of the vary complete teenager Rapetosaurus. The (humerus?) of the largest M.dacus specimen was broken so I made a "completed version" of it using Rapetosaurus humerus. Than I scaled it and got to this result.

Titanosaurs scaling can vary a lot depending on what species you use as base; the 6 meter Magyarosaurus is kind of a classic estimate and probably based on Saltasaurus; but the 2 people that I know that have "recently" scaled Magyarosaurus (Me and Randomdinos) found it larget than the 6 meter estimates for the largest M.dacus specimens. (The "M."hungaricus specimens are even larger - 10+ meters).

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ak1508 In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2019-02-20 15:11:58 +0000 UTC]

Ok I see, thank you for explaining! Keep them coming!

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Atlantis536 [2019-01-18 08:41:21 +0000 UTC]

That's a big Magyarosaurus.

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Deform2018 [2018-08-07 02:21:45 +0000 UTC]

How large would the "Dracula" Pterosaur be?

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acepredator In reply to Deform2018 [2018-09-28 17:19:35 +0000 UTC]

Dracula could just be a really big Hatzegopteryx.

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Deform2018 [2018-08-07 10:37:53 +0000 UTC]

It is impossible to say at the moment, it hasn't been published yet so without material I can't scale it.
Though it is said to be coming out on the end of fall so around December it may be already out and I'll scale it.

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SassyPaleoNerd In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-10-29 22:08:02 +0000 UTC]

I have Photos of the Original Specimen :v

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AlternatePrehistory [2018-05-29 13:23:00 +0000 UTC]

These are some wonderful silhouettes!

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to AlternatePrehistory [2018-05-29 14:32:42 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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cloudyvortex [2018-05-18 07:24:45 +0000 UTC]

Cool work, and congrats on your first scale chart. I guess even with island dwarfism in effect, grown sauropods are still way, way too big for the local apex predator to even consider going after. "I am the king of the Mesozoic, and I am above the food chain."

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to cloudyvortex [2018-05-18 11:06:44 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

Sauropods method of defense is being bigger them anything around them*, so even in an island where size is a risk they "need" to be bigger them their predator.
*They had other methods like being gregarious, a whip-like tail, armor and sheer brute force.

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vasix [2018-05-17 00:37:03 +0000 UTC]

Loving this one!

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to vasix [2018-05-17 10:33:24 +0000 UTC]

Thanks

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105697 [2018-05-16 23:41:10 +0000 UTC]

Nice!

Though the giant dromie isn't known from teeth, it's from skull bones.

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to 105697 [2018-05-16 23:43:51 +0000 UTC]

Thanks and updated

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Dinosaurlover83 [2018-05-16 04:13:53 +0000 UTC]

It's finally here! Really good job on this one.
Is it just me, or do Paludititan and Hatzegopteryx seem so much more massive than everything else? (I know Magyarosaurus is the same size, but it seems a lot more... slimmer than the other two.)

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Dinosaurlover83 [2018-05-16 09:46:38 +0000 UTC]

Hatzegopteryx has a small torso and pterosaurs are ridiculously lightweight for their size, it seam massive but in the end it wasn't.

Paludititan is more massive, it has more torso then Magy does (proportionately) and since there is where most mass is located no wonder it is that more massive.

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Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-16 00:14:34 +0000 UTC]

Really cool chart!

Paludi looks gorgeous. 

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-16 00:15:02 +0000 UTC]

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-16 00:23:54 +0000 UTC]

Funny thing is, Paludititan appears to be taller (at the shoulder) than a white rhino. Why's it about the same weight? Well, actually, even lighter than a male white rhinoceros. I'm assuming its ribcage is small or something.

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-16 00:30:19 +0000 UTC]

Rhinos have short stubby legs and the rest is pretty much a large torso and a big ass head.
Paludititan has longer and slander legs like those of an elephant, the torso is around the same size (I guess..) but sauropod have hollow bones and air sacs.

In summary one liter of sauropod weighs less them one liter of mammal.

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-16 00:47:46 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, it seems you're pretty much right about the torso thing. I just scaled and compared their torsos, and they are roughly the same size, although Paludititan's is slightly bigger. But are you sure that the stocky legs would make all that difference? I mean, they are about 2x shorter than Paludi's legs. Well, I don't know exactly how slender they were, that's why I'm asking. Also, I thought most of the low density was in the neck, so it wouldn't matter that much.

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-16 00:59:20 +0000 UTC]

Neck and tail are quite pneumatic, they don't add much mass look at barosaurus 26 meters and only 11 tones.

The thing about the legs is that they are larger and make it taller, a rhino has short little legs and so it is shorter them Paludititan. To be honest I don't know why I commented on this, it doesn't add much to the point, forget it

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-18 01:06:29 +0000 UTC]

So, apparently, I could be right. Paludititan is slightly oversized in your chart, hence why 1920kg seemed a little weird to me. I mean, I'm using the same reference as you (Megalotitan's skeletal). According to his work, Paludititan's torso was ~2m tall, a little shorter even, whereas in yours it stands at about 2.5m.

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-18 01:52:07 +0000 UTC]

There are bigger specimens, I not going to change it for now.
Will update the measurements for the one in the chart depending on how upsized it is from his work.

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-18 01:56:40 +0000 UTC]

Ok.

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Majestic-Colossus [2018-05-18 11:02:33 +0000 UTC]

A better answer:
"Megalotitan also scaled other specimens, one is smaller them the one in his schematic and another even bigger them the one on mine, so I'm not going to change the one on my chart now because it will be a lot of work and I'd need to make the chart all over again
So because of that I'll see how "upzied" mine and correct the measurements on my chart."

And thanks for pointing it out

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-18 12:49:34 +0000 UTC]

So you have nothing to worry about.

The Paludititan in your chart could perfectly match the size of some individuals, so the only thing you need to change is the mass estimate. It's still Paludititan-sized after all.

No problem, I just wanted to help in case that was meant to be the same specimen Megalotitan scaled.

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Majestic-Colossus In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-16 01:11:01 +0000 UTC]

I see.

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Tigon1Monster [2018-05-16 00:13:24 +0000 UTC]

I thought Elopteryx was thought to be a Troodontid?

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Tigon1Monster [2018-05-16 00:18:16 +0000 UTC]

It is really fragmentary so none classification is strong.
I'm following Dennonyx  classification where he synonimizes it with Variraptor, so that's why it is a dromie.

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Tigon1Monster In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-16 00:23:25 +0000 UTC]

What about before when you drew it?

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to Tigon1Monster [2018-05-16 00:37:44 +0000 UTC]

My drawing is a troodontid, but I changed my opinion since them.

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Tigon1Monster In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-16 00:42:38 +0000 UTC]

Okay.

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TheArgentinosaurus13 [2018-05-15 23:41:27 +0000 UTC]

This looks REALLY good! Extremely helpful too. I’ll definitely use it when it come to drawing formations or research purposes!

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AndreOF-Gallery In reply to TheArgentinosaurus13 [2018-05-16 00:07:32 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the complement  

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TheArgentinosaurus13 In reply to AndreOF-Gallery [2018-05-16 10:31:30 +0000 UTC]

No problem pal!

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Rahonavis70m [2018-05-15 22:09:17 +0000 UTC]

The sauropods are taller than I expected.

I’m assuming ‘Dracula’ is looped in with Hatzegopteryx.

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