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FireFlyExposed β Soap box
Published: 2010-11-22 17:16:17 +0000 UTC; Views: 1791; Favourites: 39; Downloads: 15
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Description
I don't change descriptions to my art as a rule. I usually just add an EDIT: blah blah blahI just feel the old description just doesn't work and needed the boot ... so here's the new one:
Soap Box:
A soapbox is a raised platform on which one stands to make an impromptu speech, often about a political subject. The term originates from the days when speakers would elevate themselves by standing on a wooden crate originally used for shipment of soap or other dry goods from a manufacturer to a retail store. The term is also used metaphorically to describe a person engaging in often flamboyant impromptu or unofficial public speaking, as in the phrases "He's on his soapbox", or "Get off your soapbox."
Deviant art is not the place to fly off on your personal little rants and insult people for their beliefs. It's bigoted and unnecessary.
Theism and atheism is not your local sports team. It forms an integral part of the persons life. It is fundamentally part of the person and how they view the world. I personally don't care if you agree or disagree with this statement, but it's how I see it.
Please remember if you reply here:
I don't mind you airing your opinion ... just remember your opinion is not the only opinion
On the hidden comment below:
It was sad to see that I actually had to hide a comment. This person created "anti" art geared at this stamp and tried to advertise it on here. I do feel that I need to thank them though for stalking me to this degree because they have bumper stickered this stamp all over their artist description and gained me four faves (possibly more since then).
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Comments: 71
That's brilliant
I really do like it when people can just live and let live (especially when they changed from being the opposite).
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Yeah. There are dickhead Christians, but there are also a lot of dickhead atheists who are really just as bad as the fundamentalist Christians they criticize.
There are idiots on all sides, really.
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My opinion isn't the only opinion. That is true, but may I say...
Calling us something like that is kinda offensive, you know?
Religion isn't bad, but I'm not forcing my faith on you. Maybe other people are bashing, and I hope I'm not. I'm just doing this out of "compassion". It's what we're supposed to do, in the most polite and respectful way.
Religion is a matter of blind loyalty and trust. It's all on the trust. It's also a somehow right way to live life. At least for us.
But then, of course, we're all born with conscience. So it doesn't mean that if one's a Christian, he's good. It's an inborn ability, to choose what's wrong and what's right.
God bless.
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Calling us something like that is kinda offensive, you know? < That is exactly why I made it. I have not seen this term used for at least 2 years now ... but it was making its rounds back in 2010 and I thought that it was probably the most disrespectful thing someone could say ... so it became the "headline" of my stamp.
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Yea, but what about respect? I didn't even bash on your atheism.
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I'm Christian. Did you read the description?
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You may consider my comment as blabber but I still have the rights to comment.
Religion isn't Bad. It may tear certain people up who fight about it. But the people who fight about religion is stupid. like aΒ christianΒ fighting with someΒ ashiestΒ who is their best friend. If that person who is Christian is trying to change that persons believes will just tear up their friend ship. trying to make people to believe in something they don't is kinda like forcing aΒ chocolateΒ bar down some ones throat who is allergic to something that is in it. I don't want to start this comment as a fight I was just saying :3
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I agree fully with you. Fighting about it or making a scene over it, is just silly
Just because you mentioned chocolate - I made one other religion based stamp on just that chocolaty subject:
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LOL XD I will watch you too~! XD LOL Chocolate cake XD
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I love being part of the only belief sector that laughs at this conflict.
P:"Look at these people and their silly problems."
P:"Lol."
But I stay out of these conflicts, Kudo's artist.
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What is your belief?
Sounds interesting
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Form of Paganism.
It's supposed to be formed about debate.
But in reality most days we laugh at the short-
comings of other faiths.
It's nice to laugh at a 'congregation'
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I agree that some people just overdo it, yeah. There are people on the internet - and especially on DA - who just deliberately go out of their way to piss people off just for the sake of it.
I do not agree, however, that insulting religion is worse or somehow more offensive than insulting something else. Religion, in my opinion, does not have any sort of "higher standing" or deserves any special treatment.
Oh, yeah ... and for the record: I'm an antitheist. I believe that religion, any type of it, is becoming increasingly superfluous to the point of total irrelevance in our modern society. I believe that humanity has outgrown the need for such childish superstition, and I believe that religion has been doing more harm than anything else over the last millennium. However, I am not somebody that uses this belief to go on hate rants just to insult people, so I really am rather offended by:
The problem here is that these so called atheist doing the insulting are often just a bunch of anti-christian/anti-religion in disguise and use atheism as an excuse to go off on some rampage
See, an antitheistic (call it anti-christian/anti-religion if you will) view is first and foremost atheistic, so there's no using atheism as an excuse here. Also, just because that view does not agree with you or your view, that doesn't mean it's bad. And lastly, having such a view does not, as I pointed out, make one more prone to "go off on some rampage", as you imply.
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Why do you believe that insulting religion is no worse than insulting something else (like a baseball team for example)?
Let me point it out like this rather: "I believe that humanity has outgrown the need for such childish superstition"
Childish superstition - that is offensive to me. You may ask why (maybe not) ... it's because you said, in no uncertain terms, that I am childish for having my beliefs. <<< those are the comments I am talking about as well. "However, I am not somebody that uses this belief to go on hate rants just to insult people" ... and you just did, even if you never thought you did. I am not some child believing in "magic skywizards". Childish superstitions clearly belong to those who are childish enough to believe them.
Why should it deserve a little more tact? Because there are real people on the other end of that insult who believe in what you are so flippantly insulting (and most insults are borne from ignorance of the religion or lack there of .. not all, but there are a lot). It's often a core in their life and how they base their life. It's not some colour, cartoon or sports team.
I could tell you exactly how I feel about the loud mouthed, insolent, anti-theists ... but it's not pretty. I find it whole heartily bigoted and unnecessary. "Also, just because that view does not agree with you or your view, that doesn't mean it's bad." (copy pasting because anti theists tend think theism is bad).
"Religion has been doing harm over the last millennium" ... we're living in the now. Most charitable revenue is from religious organisations, would you dismiss this for the odd loud few that plague theism? Do all Muslims fly planes into buildings? Do all Christians act like the Westboro Baptist Church? (FYI: I am Christian Methodist). Is it only some die hard Christians that think stem cell research is bad and all atheists think it's helpful? (I know an atheist who is dead against stem cell research). Don't mistake a few loud mouthed ignorant asses for a majority.
"I believe that religion, any type of it, is becoming increasingly superfluous to the point of total irrelevance in our modern society."
How so? I personally don't believe modernity should be seen as beyond religion. Religion is a deeply personal thing. How could they be seen as clashing?
"And lastly, having such a view does not, as I pointed out, make one more prone to "go off on some rampage", as you imply."
I never implied it, you just read it like that. I said the atheists that are >>>insulting theists<<< are using the atheistic disguise (or anti theist). That in no way even means the majority of atheists or even a large portion there of. All it means is those insulting in the worst ways are using atheism to go off on a rampage. Please do not twist my words. I also said "anit-Christian because it's usually Christianity on the receiving end of 90% of the rants by anti theists.
Sorry, not bitching at you ... I had some asshole on another site insult me directly for being a Christian ... who the hell dares to think they know MY REASONS AND REASONING for being a Christian?! I am still pretty pissed about it. Ignorant, bigoted, little ass seems to think he is far superior to me because he is atheist.
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People may believe in (or feel strongly about) a baseball team in pretty much the same way. I really see not much of a difference, there are real people behind anything you may choose to insult, and these people may always feel strongly about one thing or another. In the end it's all subjective, that is why I think there is nothing that deserves more or less respect or tact than anything else. People will react more strongly if things that are close to them are insulted, yes, but again, those things can be pretty ambivalent.
As to the "childish superstition" ... I said that because from my view, religion is indeed childish. That is a subjective sentiment, not a statement of fact. It does not necessarily imply that a believer is of childish nature per sΓ©, there could be a highly decorated, brilliant scientist who believes in something completely irrational (supported by the fact that there are indeed religious scientists ^_-), that doesn't necessarily make him any less brilliant, does it? You can choose to be offended by it, of course, but then, that's true about pretty much anything.
Aye, antitheists do think that theism (or rather religion, in my case organized religion) is bad. And no, just because they think this, it doesn't become fact (the truth is always relative anyway, so are facts). That doesn't mean that their view is necessarily wrong, either - it works both ways. It's all a matter of perspective.
"we're living in the now."
Yes, we are. But the one who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it. Something I, as a German, was taught over and over again at school ... ^^
Oh, yes, religious organizations are big on charity these days, but in all honesty, charity is not monopolized by religion and I do not need to believe in a god to donate money or offer help to people in need. Nor do I need faith to lead a moral life.
I also know that you can never reduce a larger group to one view or opinion, and there are fundamentalists in any ideology.
On the other hand, there are people in high offices of, say, the catholic church (the most relevant christian sect over here), who actively seek to make blasphemy a punishable offense, who meddle in politics, who - in public sermons - denounce unbelievers as inhumane and spread hate against people who choose to live their lives free from religion (in an official church capactiy, mind you - the ones I'm referring to are bishops and archbishops).
We have freedom of (and from) religion in civilized countries nowadays, but few people know that that freedom is something that has been fought by the christian faith every step of the way. Freedom won, but they're still trying to undermine it.
That's just an example, but it should illustrate why I am violently opposed to religious organizations specifically.
As for modernity ... religions have originally been a means for the early humans to explain the inexplicable. I think that's one point we needn't argue. There have been some major atrocities committed in the name of faith, but that's beside the point - in the past religion did have a purpose one way or the other.
But look at the last 200 years. Our understanding of the world has grown exponentially. There are still a few things we do not yet understand completely (like the human brain, and - by proxy - the human consciousness), but extrapolating from those 200 years of rapid growth, it's safe to assume that most of those will be understood by the end of the century as well. There is (or soon will be) simply no need to substitute a hypothetical higher power for explanation purposes any more. That is what I mean when I say that humanity is outgrowing the need for religion.
This is also supported by the demographic changes pertaining to religion: About 15 years ago a mere 22% of the german population (and as far as I know it's similar in many other countries) did not believe in a god. Last year it was over 50% already. The human race is waking up, religion is becoming increasingly obsolete.
Now, I am not saying that people shouldn't believe what they want. In fact, since I am a firm believer in the value of individuality, I think everybody should believe exactly what he wants - but the important thing in my opinion is that that choice is made completely personal. Nobody, in my opinion, has any right whatsoever to force his beliefs on others in any way, or to try to convert others to his beliefs.
I have been baptized as a child. I was not given a choice in this. I believe it was wrong to take that choice from me, because I would have chosen differently. I believe that not even parents have any right to choose a religion for their children. As you say, it's a deeply personal thing, and nobody should have the right to interfere with or influence that decision in any way. Another reason why I oppose organized religion.
Now, you may have notice that I avoided using the term "christianity" specifically here. My opposition of religion encompasses all of them equally. I agree with you that most people just go hate on christians, many even just because they want to piss people off. There will always be ignorant assholes out there, of whatever denomination. Guess that can't be helped, sadly ...
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OK ... feel better ... changed the description as well, sounds more like what I was trying to get across.
People do not feel the same way about baseball. Baseball usually lasts the term of a game (ie a few hours) and most insults are toward the team and are most of the time just for fun and to rile the opposition supporters (very rarely getting too emotional). Religion is a daily thing ... part of the way many operate. You don't wake up in the morning and look out your window and think "Oh my, Joes Pub Baseball made a wonderful day" or when you start your meal "Thank you Yankees for the meal we are about to receive" ... you don't go to bed at night and pray to the Packers for the gift of life they gave you and how good your life is for knowing them. There is a HUGE ass difference and people need to start understanding this.
Your "childish superstition" statement was a statement of your opinion on me since I fall within these parameters. How could you call me childish for my beliefs? Your lack of belief doesn't make you superior in knowledge or rationality. It's irrational to you because you have not experienced what others have. It is completely rational to me ... I went through a process of deductive reasoning to come to my very logical conclusion.
"You can choose to be offended by it, of course, but then, that's true about pretty much anything."
As you took offense to what I said.
"Yes, we are. But the one who does not learn from history is doomed to repeat it."
I never said forget about the past. My point was to stop bringing up the past and slapping every religious person with shit that other people from history did. Do people come up to you and keep labeling you as a Nazi and how you wiped out millions of people? No ... because you didn't, the same as all those theists you are lumping together in your statements of the past. Most theists cringe when they hear what people did in the past and what some nut jobs are still doing today.
I never said religious organisations had a monopoly on charity ... but they do make up an incredible bulk of charitable works. Do you agree with this statement: Religious institutions are more charitable because it is convenient. They minister to their congregations on a charitable life and where they can help. Example: My church leaves boxes out for their food ministry, you go and pick one up and fill it with the stuff on their list and you drop it off again ... or you can donate toys for their Christmas drive ... or their AIDS ministry ... that's just naming a few from my specific church (now imagine every church doing this).
I also never said you had to know a god to be charitable or that morality came from religion. Both statement come from the very ignorant few. I have seen countless atheists tell specifically Christians that they are not moral because they follow an immoral God (despite the fact that that statement reeks of ignorance) ... would you agree or disagree with this? Or does morality come from being atheist?
I have never heard of your examples of the Catholic church and I find it hard to believe (apart from the blasphemy bit ... that I can believe). If you read the Bible you will understand why I say this. You may be plagued by problems of high Catholic officials ... but think of this: The Methodist church played it's role in bringing an end to slave trade in Brittan. Do you not see the good that some churches did in the past?
I disagree with your points on religion being founded as a way to explain the inexplicable. Not all religions are like this. Some were, but not all.
"There have been some major atrocities committed in the name of faith"
EXACTLY! In the name of faith ... not because of it. People would still commit those atrocities if religion were eliminated. People would have found some other excuse to start that war. Oil, gold, salt, slaves, silks, land, skin colour, language ... there are more than a half dozen examples that people have already used as an excuse to fight. Why do you think the USA is still occupying some of the places they fought against? It's not for religion ... it's for power. Think of it like this: the USA bombs the crap out of a country ... then when they win (which they always do), they offer "cheap" contracts to rebuild the cities THEY bombed ... it's about money now days with backdrops of religious excuses to band people in one common thought (and people fall for those surface excuses every time)
"There is (or soon will be) simply no need to substitute a hypothetical higher power for explanation purposes any more."
And why is that? Religion is not science and never claimed to be such (true some religions would fall away with more understanding, but not all). There is absolutely no reason that religion can run along side science; most do not clash.
"The human race is waking up, religion is becoming increasingly obsolete."
Again, I can take that as an insult. I am pretty much fully aware of my understandings and perceptions of the world. I could equally say that people are bullied into non belief by people saying "You are so childish to believe that" "You are so stupid, how could you believe in a magic sky daddy?". People are emotional creatures that want to be liked and will drop something they believe in if bullied enough.
Example: Free thinking: You're only free thinking if you think like them ... but that's not very free thinking if you are me. (not every one states this)
I agree that nobody has any right whatsoever to force his beliefs on others in any way. I do however think your statement "or to try to convert others to his beliefs" is unrealistic. You're telling me right now what you feel about your lack of belief and how unnecessary and childish religion is. That is a firm stance and trying to show people how silly it is to believe; it's not a forceful stance ... but it's still a firm stance. As soon as you open your mouth about your beliefs (or lack thereof) you are subtly trying to convert. It's human nature and people try make you change your mind about all sorts of things on a daily basis: "don't buy this washing powder, ours is better" "You should drink this beer because it will make you popular" (not mentioning you prefer the taste of your beer) "This years colour is red and lavender is so last year and dated ... ewwwww" ... everyone is trying to convince you that their whatever is better. You get to decide in the end whether to follow them or not. It's the same with religion ... you propose an idea and try convince ... although, I do want to slap some sales people and tell them to f***off because I already said no thank you a few dozen times.
Baptism is simply the recognition of a child being raised in a Christian way by their family. It is not a deciding factor or anything that binds anyone to anything. It has no meaning to the child ... it's only meaning is to the parents. Would you blame your parents for giving you your first bath? Or your first hair cut? Baptism only really means something to you if you do it later in life when you understand what you are doing and why you are doing it.
Religion is also part of the culture of the family. You were brought up to never forget your German history ... a few of my friends were raised in a culture that tried to make them feel ashamed of being German. Is it right to feel ashamed of being German? Not in the slightest ... but in some places, the culture is there that explains why they should be ashamed. Then you get other cultures, like the Zulu, who had a culture of pure pride ... they were strong warriors and have still not forgotten this, they are taught to be proud and that their dancing and animal skins are that damn awesome. It's in their culture to learn and love their past. Why would it be any different for religion? If it's in the culture of your family, then it's taught. Would you not tell your children how childish and silly you think religion is? Because that is teaching them to be atheists. You cannot be neutral over things like this, it's not possible. As soon as you voice an opinion, you are steering your child in that direction (they may eventually change their own course though).
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I'm not up to answering this ... depression is a bitch.
I don't agree with your points.
Have a nice day and keep up the speed painting.
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actually, I'd say you're the one whining considering all the anti-religon stamps you have faved...no offense
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Sorry, no offense, but this comment offers no substance. Please provide an alternate or rebuttal.
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Well, there's the self-censoring of profanities and bashing a certain insult, don't let insults get to you.
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I find insults in this sense to be stupid and unnecessary. It could even be to some degree seen as immaturity.
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someone else who agrees no more religion.
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On the contrary ... I believe everyone has the right to believe what they want. Religion is vital to some people. Even in the event that all modern religions are wiped out; there will be people who believe there is something out there.
I don't live in a country where religion is such a big deal ... you are what you are (unless you are a "bad witch" which is just stupid how people pretend to know who is a "bad witch")
The statement I was making was that people were using dA to state their very angry anti religion messages and insult the people part of that religion. Thankfully people seemed to have calmed down and stopped the hate.
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Indeed that's what I meant by said statement.
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ahhh ... my bad
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Fag is a horrible word. That is all I have to say.
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My stamp didn't single out Christians
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[link] And with this, I will cheerfully dissapear. Unless, of course, something comes up.
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I found out that those anti-religionists chicken out if dealing with Muslims, Buddhists, and Hindus but Christians [Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox, Latter-day Saint, etc.] and Jews are free game for them.
What idiots.
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Can I point out that Buddhism isn't a religion it's a way of life.
But I do agree with them being idiots. Unfortunately I doubt it's going to stop anytime soon, anti-religionists have been around for centuries, and it's not just the atheists doing it. You get people in certain religions who will flame out at others of different religion because they think theirs is better. So it's not just atheists.
(I can't believe no-one's picked up on that yet)
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Only saw this now ... it's not that no one has seen it. If I had to cover every single aspect of this topic my comment would just be a text wall and no one reads a text wall.
I would wager that 99% of the people here realise that even other religions do the same ... it's just far more common to see it from the anti religious
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It's okay.
I'm not that sure it is that common from the anti religious as it is from the religious. As we both know religions hate on each other every day. Atheists are known to keep to themselves a bit more than others.
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I'm not sure that's quite right ... there are atheist groups on dA that almost encourage people to make anti religion art. [link]
#atheist-alliance < check out their affiliates as well
There used to be an FFRF group on dA, but I think it's been closed
I haven't seen any religious groups going on quite the same level of rampage. I could be wrong though.
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I just looked at the about us - the person who created that group is banned.....
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Well that's good
but yeah, I think that in general the atheist community is quite spiffy 
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Very true. The minority always make a bad impression of the majority.
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o.0 I've never seen those groups before, they look very scary....
I take back what I have said, those groups look scary....
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sorry for the delay of my answer ... I have been rather lazy :/
Yeah ... they won't touch what people would class as a benevolent religion. I saw a stamp on the lines of "I dare you to make fun of Buddha" or something like that ... pretty much aimed at the guy saying anti x,y, or z religion
I have seen the Muslim faith attacked a few times, not so much Jewish ... but definitely the bulk of anti religious stuff is geared at Christianity.
Honestly it's people who wouldn't dare do it to a persons face and think "OH ... Look, the internetz! No1z can tuch meh!"
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Once is talked of this with a demotivational poster it haved over 1000 views in less of a week.
Some guy decide to attack me and 5 minutes later all my gallerya was kicked out of deviant.
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I know what you mean
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I put a darwin picture and a bunch of crazy guys attacked me, all of them said they were atheist,thing get worst after i told them Darwin was a beliver and not an atheist, that he waid he belive on God until his last day.
worst after i send them evidence that Catholic belive in the Big bang and Evolution.
I just show evidence that many religious people belive in science too.
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