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futureshamutrainer — Who Said?
Published: 2012-06-25 16:37:38 +0000 UTC; Views: 643; Favourites: 21; Downloads: 9
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Who said? The judge. Make him wrong! Show your pride and defense for orca trainers, killer whales, and Dawn.No anit-cap. I don't want to hear your opinions if they involve orcas being 'trapped' or 'in prison'. I love them the way they are. Go comment somewhere else.
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Comments: 24
im just asking these questions because they are beyond me..
are we bound by duty or love to stop a lion from having a zebra for lunch?
or are we only required to protect the animals in our immediate vicinity / experience?
is 'man incarcerating + eating animals' a result of the fall?
evidently, even a shepherd takes care of his flock/cattle only to eat/sacrifice them,
do we attempt to abolish that?
also is 'animal feeding off animals' a result of the fall? or did God call that good too?
because from my limited high-school science knowledge, ecosystems are incredibly cyclical
and self-sustaining. I hear that some even believe the absence of humanity would be beneficial.
and if the incarceration of animals on our part is twisted and 'sinful',
what point is there trying to prevent a sin?
our mission isn't to outlaw every sinful action, but to submit to God's work
of conquering and abolishing sin itself from our very hearts.
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I feel like animal eating animal was caused by the fall. Mainly because I find it hard to imagine that the image of a lion violently ripping into the throat of an antelope is fitting with the idea of paradise. XDD
However, the point remains that as-is, we can't go around stopping animals from eating each other. Sad as it is that's how it is. Saving a zebra doesn't do much good if the lion then starves to death. That being said--while we shouldn't try to flip over nature, we can do our best to be humane. It'd be wrong of me to stop a wild fox from eating mice, but it'd also be wrong of me to live feed a tame mouse to my already well-fed cat.
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I love zoos. I own pets. But I don't support orcas in captivity.
Ok, think about it. We have this REALLY BIG, very intelligent, carnivorous animal. And we put it into a tiny tank? And have people swim with it? How is that in any way a smart idea? e___e
Take, say, a poison dart frog, or a tropical fish, or an owl. They are relatively tiny. It is no trouble at all to put them in a nice enclosure that can give them everything they need. Even bigger animals like lions or rhinos are possible to house properly. But orca whales are bigger than all of the above. I've seen many nicely designed habitats for big land animals. I have yet to see an orca housed in anything that's more 'natural' than a big empty tank of water.
Then there's the fact that they're intelligent. Are they human intelligent? No, duh. But they are still pretty darn intelligent, as shown by their ability to work with people. So of all the animals you could coop up in a boring undersized tank, it is the unfairest to them.
And then there are the trainers who have been KILLED by orcas. How many people who work with parrots do you know who had their companions kill them? Eagles? Small monkeys? Little exotic cats? None. But orcas are big and as I mentioned carnivorous and can and will kill people. Not all of the time, certainly, but one death at all is one too many.
God made animals and He said it was good. He didn't say it was good to coop them up in crappy undersized tanks where they can kill a trainer if they get nervous or stressed. I love God, I love animals, I love interacting with animals and do indeed believe God made them for us to love and care for. But I really don't think what they're doing with captive orcas is properly loving and caring for them.
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You just don't understand like I do. I know the trainers there. They take care of them VERY well.
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No matter how nicely they take care of them in captivity, the point is they shouldn't be there in the first place, unless something really crippled their ability to live in the wild.
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The population of orcas has decreased. Now it is actually a good thing. They couldn't control that people before put these animals in captivity. They can't just put them down.
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Of course not. Euthanasia for any healthy animal is awful. However, while they might be stuck with the current orcas, they can stop capturing/breeding new ones for captivity (I could be wrong in thinking they're still catching new wild ones, but I do know they're breeding them, at any rate). If orcas that couldn't survive in the wild were eventually made the exclusive type of captive orca, then both sides of the matter would likely be appeased.
And one of the main points of zoos is conservation, yes. But most captive orcas are 1) not even kept in zoos, they're kept in amusement parks and 2) they tend to a lot sicker and shorter lived than wild ones, so I don't think captive-based conservation programs are fitting here.
Also again, just... just step back and look at it. Orcas are huge. The only comparably sized captive animals are probably elephants. Elephants are land animals, so it's somewhat easier to give them the room they need--just put up a wide, wide fence, so to speak. But orcas are water animals, which makes things so much harder. You need filters, all the 'surroundings' have to be imported, takes up way more room and is way more expensive, yadda yadda yadda. If the expenses and difficulties were able to be overcome and there were some great orca habitats, then I'd be more content. But again, more often then not they're stuck in undersized tanks. Even a tank that gives them room to swim around a fair amount is a lot different from a natural-looking habitat that is big enough to take more than two minutes to traverse.
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She said no anti-cap comments, so go and argue about anti captivity somewhere else.
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She edited that in AFTER my initial comment. Which you would have learned from reading our comment string. Observe before you comment. :l
I also find the anti-cap label idiotic. Anti-cap implies I am against any captivity whatsoever, when I am only against healthy wild caught or healthy bred orcas in captivity.
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I'm done here. I'm just sticking up for a friend.
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Okay, listen. I'm not trying to be rude or anything, but I made this photo for people who are on my side, not yours. If you don't want to say anything nice about it, don't say anything at all. Read the description. I don't want any anti-caps. I get your point, but it won't change my mind. I don't care about your point. Look at it from a different point. I can see from your point of view. Can you see from mine?
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If you aren't willing to defend your opinion, don't post your opinion in an open forum. Not to mention you didn't put in that 'anti-caps' bit until after I had initially commented. I am a member of the Christian group you submitted this to. I like animals. Thus it caught my attention and I shared my opinion.
If you're going to not care about my point then I highly doubt you can really see from my point of view, and I question whether I should bother attempting to see from yours. But I DO see from yours. I've seen captive orca shows. I've swum with captive dolphins. They are beautiful animals and it really is captivating to see them up close. But--I was also in Florida when the news of one of the trainers getting killed had just occurred. I had never heard of such a thing before, and I looked into the whole captive orca thing more deeply. And came to the conclusions I have just shared with you.
I love animals deeply. I believe God gave them to us to enjoy and protect, as I said. But as much as I'd like to be ok with it, as much as I'd like to be able to still be able to sit there in the stands and watch their beauty up close, I now believe that such a view is selfish.
The bond between human and cetacean does not need to be destroyed. That would be worse than this. But the bond does need to change so that we are focused more on what's good for them then on what's entertaining or beautiful for us.
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You don't really want to get my started on defending my opinion. Not in a rude way though. I don't find it selfish at all though.
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To each their own. Take care.
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Okay then...
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I thought you desired the discussion to be over?
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Yeah. I just didn't understand the first sentence.
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You don't find it selfish, I do. To each their own, we all have different ways of seeing things.
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That's true
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Are they trying to pass laws against whale training?! D8
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Yeah. As if now they can't do waterworks.
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