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HollyRoseBriar — Seriously? SERIOUSLY?? You're doing this NOW??
Published: 2014-02-13 05:50:48 +0000 UTC; Views: 2122; Favourites: 57; Downloads: 1
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I don't think I want to see either of these guys with Emma. Neal lost every ounce of my support when I found out he had the gall to get engaged to someone other than Emma, and got cold feet about trying to give Emma closure. (Rumple might have a lot of huge faults, but at least he TRIED to make things right with Bae.) After what Neal did to Emma he has no right to try to be with anyone else without first trying to do what he can to make it up to her.
I have written a death-sentance on Hook ever since he shot Belle. (Or maybe it was when he hit and nearly killed her in her cell. Or maybe it was when he made Rumple think that Milah was forceably kidnapped rather than running away.) I ship him with worms.
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Comments: 113
Neal choosing to get engaged to someone else isn't exactly a crime. What was horrible of him was how he abandoned Emma and set her up to go to prison, how he rubbed the fact that he was moving on while she hadn't gotten over him i nher face like a total douche, AND how he immediately came crawling back to Emma as a romantic option after Tamara turned out to have been using him, as if how much he hurt her didn't matter and he was entitled to have her back if he so chose, what she wanted be damned. He was so not right for her.
Hook, however, while not the best man in many areas, AT LEAST took a much better approach when it came to Emma. He made his crush on her no secret BUT he didn't force her into anything because he respected her right to choose who she wanted or didn't want to be with, and made it clear that her choosing him would be the only acceptable grounds to build a relationship on, as opposed to trickery or contrivance. He gave her space when she needed it, gave up everything he had just to benefit her and do right by her, and has shown repeatedly how much he cares about her and often told how highly her regards her, as opposed to Neal who came off as putting her down often and not putting her first.
So basically, Captain Swan wins this.
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I might be mad at Neal for leaving Emma (to the cops) and then getting engaged to someone else instead of trying to make it up with her, but that doesn't really compare to Hook's threatened Emma's life on mutlipal occasions when they first met. Locked her and the rest of her freinds up to starve to death in a magic cell, threatened to stab her with his... sword... and/or "sword"... and that's just his offences to Emma. I could go on and on with his offences to other characters.
Anyway, long story short, Hook rubbed me the wrong way when I first "met" him and that pretty much killed my ability to ship Hook with Emma. Or just about anyone else.
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I don't recall Hook ever making direct attempts on Emma's life. The only two times he risked her life was when he left her in Rumple's Cell and when he was going to leave Storybrooke with the last magic bean. Otherwise nothing. He hurt Emma at points, but only in the same way Emma hurt him too, since they were enemies during that time. And please don't go on and on, I've heard it all before and most of the arguments don't even begin to paint Hook as being worse than Regina and Rumple. He did a lot of bad things, but he's the only villain whose made sufficient measures of atonement for his past.
Shame. You're missing out on a great relationship.
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I don't recall a scene where he sent someone to release her from that cell. He left her to die. That's literally an attempt on her life. At least when she left him with Anton she'd made a deal with the giant to let him out.
Plus Emma's strait up saved him on multipal occasions. While they were enemies. It's not even.
Not really. CaptainSwan disgusts me, so I can't miss it.
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He left her there to die because she'd earlier left him chained to the beanstalk, and even if Anton wasn't going to kill him, Hook didn't know that, and if he were to escape, Cora would likely kill him for failing. Again, he had no way of knowing that Cora would think sparing him was less merciful.
And Hook's helped/saved Emma on multiple occasions now. Even if not when they were enemies, he does so now as atonement.
You ARE missing out. There's really nothing disgusting about CaptainSwan.
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Team Somone Else or No One.
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Surprisingly he doesn't annoy me very much... Lately.
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They both suck damn it does it make me mad the show got rid of the best suitors for Emma so we choose which asshole is better Emma goes with Regina of that was the third option.
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I don't think "SwanQueen" has ever been an option. I don't understand why that's a "possible thing". Neither Emma or Regina have ever expressed interest in women. Plus, Regina has tried to kill Emma multipal times, and I think Emma is only putting up with her because Henry cares about her.
So far, Graham has been my favorite suitor for Emma. But he's dead now. I would have liked Walsh, except he pulled a Hans. I MIGHt forgive him if it turns out he was being controled, but I doubt that will be a likely twist...
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I don't ship SQ just meant it as a much better option than the two guys at the moment and that ship isn't even plausible either but can buy it better than CS and SF. Graham was the best guy then August came and I liked him but they killed him to make Neal the better guy.
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I think Neal might be starting to grow on me... but only because it seems he's starting to shape up. I am still very dissappointed in several of his life choices, though...
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I love the look on Emma's face, it like she wants to slap them.
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YOU FOOLS ARE BOTH GROUNDED WHEN WE GET HOME.
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Doesn't Emma get a say in this? Good art. Funny.
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Come on! Everybody knows that if you act more impressive than [all] "the other guy[s]" then the girl will definitely get twitterpaited for you. It's a law of nai-chur...
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OMG I JUST REALIZED WHAT YOU HAPPEN TO BE DRAWING FANART OF.
/squeals and dies
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Ooooh my gosh. I killed another person with my art. D8 ( XD Glad you like it! 
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Yeeeeaaah... Not to thrilled about the idea of Emma being with Hook... Or Neal...
Neal caused her a lot of pain. I see that. And Hook was a perv from the start. And yeah, he did try to Emma and her family multiple times. And now he's head over boots for her? I don't think so. But, now Hook doesn't seem like a villan anymore.i don't care. I still don't like him.
Lol. Boots.
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I totally agree.
It's not so much that Neal hurt her, it's that instead of going to try doing whatever he could to make it up to her and give her closure he got engaged to Tammy. But I guess that is a part of hurting her...
They did too good of a job villifying Hook for me to like him enough to ship him with any characters I like. I'll ship him with Regina. They can both sail off the edge of the world together.
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And do you love Rumple and Rumbelle? 'Cause, y'know, Rumple is pretty much THE villain of the entire damn show.
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Rumple was literally possessed by a demon. If anyone is "THE villain" of the show it's the host-jumping Dark One demon.
Hook on the other hand, turned into a crooked pirate because a king was crooked. That was all him.
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Rumple was NOT possessed - he was INFLUENCED by a dark entity, but the nature of that entity requires the individual who is it's host to feed it their own inner darkness in order for it to give them power. Rumple's as much to blame for his actions and behavior as the darkness is.
Killian turned to piracy because he felt it better to be a free and honorable outlaw than an officer of a corrupt kingdom's navy, thus a cog in a system of oppression and unfairness. He might have let it go to his head and became a jerk, but he wasn't really a bad guy until Rumple killed Milah and disabled him. That marked his actual turn to true evil.
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Influenced by a dark entity in his head. Posessed.
He's a cog in a system of oppression and unfairness. He just decided to be his own boss and dictate who he would screw over. That's not honerable.
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Possessed would be if the entity completely overrode all of Rumple's personality, desires, facets, motives, and actions - made him act just how IT would. But that's not the case. Rumple was a deeply disturbed, messed up man bonded to a darkness that was like a drug to him. He had multiple chances to resist it's pull and get clean, and he chose to waste those chances each and every time. He's got a chance to start over now and become truly good, but he's not absolved of his actions he committed as the Dark One. He has to own up to them just like any other villain.
We never saw pre-Hook Killian "screw over" anybody except Rumple, and even that was because he was assisting a woman wanting to liberate herself from a toxic marriage with that man. And Killian was oddly merciful to Rumple when he came on to his ship. If it had been Blackbeard who Rumple tried to bargain with, he'd be dead.
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Which he does. He calls himself a monster on multipal occasions. Unlike Hook, who it seemed to me only mustered up apologies for his wrongdoings when it was the only thing to make him look good to Emma.
But of course I stopped watching the show at some point. Maybe he managed to dredge up a sincere apology since I stopped.
We didn't see him not screw over anybody except Rumple, either. It seriously wouldn't surprise me if the self-dubbed pirate did screw over tons of people other than Rumple.
"Oddly merciful"... because leading a guy to believe that his wife was kidnapped and there's not a thing he can do about it is the epitome of mercy. It was just a way to needlessly torture him!
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The thing is that admitting you're a fucked up person who fucks up is not the same as owning up to your problems when you CONTINUE to display such problematic behavior, REFUSE to fix anything about yourself, and despite having victimized countless people for CENTURIES believe yourself entitled to rewards and happiness with no repercussions. When Hook was a villain, he knew full well what he was too ("I'm the worst human around!", "You have no idea..", etc.) but he clearly recognized that because he hurt many people in his pursuit of revenge on another villain, he was entitled to nothing - he'd take a death penalty after taking revenge in order to be punished for his own crimes. As for apologies, he gave a sincere one to Ariel (actually Zelena) when no one else was around to see, was apologetic for hurting Ursula in the past and even made an effort to restore her happy ending that he'd taken from her, frequently expresses remorse and self-loathing for bad things he does when he slips back to his darker side (even when it was literally beyond his control and Gold was making him do the bad things), and in the recent season he acknowledged that he'd been inconsiderate toward pre-Dark One Rumple when he'd held a sword to him and taunted him in their first formal meeting.
I wouldn't be surprised either, but Hook seems to have a code that hinges on the golden "Do Unto Others" rule. He doesn't screw with others unless he feels they've given him reason to screw with them. He didn't always stay true to this code during his revenge-seeking days, but that's because he was so single minded, self centered, and amoral to the point of being like a sociopath. He's finally come around to being a decent guy nowadays.
Put this into perspective - not only did Killian not kill Rumple on the spot when he barged onto his ship, but he allowed him to walk away from the duel he turned down - let him keep his life and go back home to his son. The "led to believe his wife was kidnapped and he was powerless to stop it" bit loses my sympathy when I consider that everyone else BUT Rumple seemed to recognize that situation for what it was - his wife leaving him. Rumple is the only one who perpetuated the narrative in which Milah got kidnapped and he was a powerless victim. Really, the only pain he walked away from that ship with was hurt feelings. Now when Dark One Rumple challenged Killian to a duel years later, he specifically stated that he would NOT allow him to walk away from the duel and keep his life - he had every intention on killing him. Rumple didn't know that Milah was with Killian at that time, but Killian knew and thus knew that if he died, he'd be leaving Milah without her lover. But he fought anyway, showing he has the courage that Rumple lacked - that he still lacked until very recently.
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I'm getting really tired of arguing about this. I don't even care about this show anymore, and there are things that you just can't argue me out of believing.
1. Milah had a responsibility to be the best wife and mother she could be.
2. It was good that she left because she was utter shit at being either.
3. Milah and Hook (but especially Milah) did Rumple and Bae INEXCUSABLE wrong when they didn't admit point blank that Milah was running away.
4. There was no reason that Milah couldn't have admitted she was running away, because if she was that serious about running away she had a crew backing up her decision to leave, both "moral" and sword support. Rumple had absolutely no power other than persuasion to get her to come back with him.
5. It was not illogical or morally wrong of Rumple to assume that Milah was being kidnapped, especially as the people directly involved didn't make any pains to make sure he knew her exodus was self-decided.
6. If Killigan didn't think that he was making it sound like he was kidapping Milah for a life of gangrape, he's a moron.
7. If Killigan didn't mean the duel proposal as a death threat to Rumple, he's a moron. That sword he was pointing at Rumple's FACE was sharp.
8. There was NO reason for Rumple to believe that he would not be killed in that duel. And if he was, that'd leave Bae without a mother and without a father. And as such it was not morally wrong of him to refuse to fight.
9. Hook KNEW Rumple and Milah had a kid at home. He SAW the child. Rumple mentioned him as a reason for him to release Milah. He shouldn't have had to be told that Rumple would be worried about leaving his kid a complete orphan.
10. Most of Rumple's actions do have a veign of selfishness in them. That doesn't mean he doesn't also have selfless reasons to do things, too.
11. Most of Killigan's actions have a veign of selfishness in them.
12. Killigan's character rubs me the wrong way, and from what I've heard of his backstory and "redemptoin arch" I have very little to no sympathy for him. Period.
13. A lot of what Rumple does isn't right and I'd like him to get rid of his demons and change his ways, but in the end I find a lot of his decisions understandable. At least to some degree.
14. At some point I think the writers just ruined their own characters... every single one of them. Made them go out of character... and in a bad direction.
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Like Rumple shouldn't be held to the same standards you hold Regina and Hook? That he should somehow be exempt from taking full accountability for his villainy the way other villains are because he's "possessed" and they're not, and he deserves to be happy with Belle as his wife even though he's a WIFE KILLER and has a history of MURDERING defenseless women. Not like Hook - that bastard hit a woman in the face and made rape-y remarks during a sword fight! There's no way he deserves anyone!
1. And Rumple had that same responsibility in terms of being a husband and father. If he wasn't going to excel at those, then what gives Milah no right to abdicate her own expected responsibilities if she so chooses?
2. It WAS good that she left - that's what a person who feels suffocated under a marriage and lifestyle she doesn't like SHOULD do. If they desire a change, they should exercise their right to make a change.
3. True, Milah and Killian were at fault for deceit, dishonesty, and cowardice on Milah's part. At least they and fans like me can admit that.
4. Also true, but she didn't think that part through. As she admitted herself minutes before her murder, she let her misery cloud her judgement on how to approach the situation.
5. Not illogical or morally wrong at first. After a certain point, though, it becomes all too clear what's actually going on, but Rumple (subconsciously, not deliberately) REFUSES to let go of his earlier reading of the situation because that's a framing of the situation in which he can come out looking like the wrong victim as opposed to the instigator of the problem.
6. Or maybe Rumple's the moron for reading gang-rape into his words, which gave zero overt implications that he had anything of the sort planned for Milah. Companionship could mean exactly what that word means, and if it's alluding to sex, then there's nothing saying said sex is not consensual on the woman's part. If Rumple assumed gang-rape there, he did so based on his preconceived misogynistic assumptions of men and women in this sort of situation.
7. THAT was totally bad form on Killian's part, and he himself has come to realize that as of late. In his words, he'd "played the villain in that little drama" by behaving in such a way to a well-meaning man that he didn't personally know or have anything against.
8. Then he should have mentioned that he was declining the duel on behalf of a loved one, because all Killian saw was him refusing to duel FOR a loved one.
9. Killian knew Bae existed, but he didn't know how much Bae was a motivation in Rumple's actions and behavior. Because Rumple gave no indication that he was.
10. Sometimes he's being simultaneously selfish and selfless. The entirety of the "Desperate Souls" flashback story was that. Contrary to popular belief, though, everything he did in order to get the Dark Curse cast and broken so that he could find his son was entirely selfish. Bae was in no danger and did not want to see his father in his life again, but Rumple was insistent on finding him again so that he could get the emotional gratification of his son's forgiveness.
11. They used to, but ever since the second half of Season 3, Hook has been living and fighting for others rather than himself, putting the needs of Emma, her friends and family, and the entire town before his own time and again.
12. Hook is literally the only major villain on the show who's had a proper redemption arc, and was also the only villain who was sympathetic from the start (we saw him experience a tragedy in his first episode). Rumple and Regina weigh redemption by what THEY gain and retain from it, whereas Hook weighs it by how much the person he loves gets out of his good actions. He lives in atonement for his past the best way he possibly can, and feels entitled to nothing that he won't fight for himself.
13. "Understandable" isn't always equivalent to "justified" or "right." Rumpelstiltskin has done WAY more bad than he has good, and is the source of much of the suffering other characters have gone through on the show. He has only just BEGUN to redeem himself for all that he's done, and even then it's not likely to end in happiness for him - at least, that's what Robert Carlyle himself believes.
14. And I can agree with this too. Some are less severe than others (Rumple and Hook are still my favorite characters despite issues I have taken with them at points), but all the characters, the plots, and the show is just not as strong as in the beginning.
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Nobody holds Hook and Regina to the same standards they do Rumple. Rumple is always the heart of pure selfishness and cowardice and evil no matter what he does. Even the fact that he believes his wife was kidnapped makes him a "horrible person"... while the people involved in leading him to believe that skip off with a shrug and and "omg, they don't NEED to give the coward closure". If I ever go too far in defending Rumple, it's mostly because people don't give him the breaks and support that they give characters like Regina and Hook. You're doing it right now, basically claiming that Hook's only noteworthy offences are hitting a woman in the face and made rape-y remarks during a sword fight... ignoring that he's tried to kill several defenseless women himself... in addtion to other crimes.
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Rumple's FANS hold him to a HIGHER standard than the other villains because apparently he and only he is a good and redeemable person at heart, and none of his villainous behavior and actions are his fault because he's cursed and possessed to do those things against his better judgement. (Yeah, reeeeal complex, interesting villain character there - one who has no culpability for any of his crimes. 
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Rumple doesn't deserve a happy ending after a lot of the stuff he did as the Dark One. I just found him less anoying and a tad bit more sane and reasonable than the rest of them, so he's one of the villains I rooted for to be redeemed. Or at least I did until the writers started killing all of the characters' characters...
At that point Rumple honestly seemed to me to be too broken-spirited to do much but ask her to please don't leave Baelfire home alone. (Which I fail to see as abuse. I didn't begrudge Milah fun, but while she was living there she was at least responsible to find someone else to watch her toddler while she was out having said fun. It's just what you do if you are a semi-decent human being.) If Rumple was abusing Milah in any way, I'm totally sure that Milah made sure she gave at least quadrupal whatever she got, which makes her victim card a lot less valid.
When Milah left, she had an entire pirate crew backing up her decision to leave, morally and physically... there was no way that Rumple COULD have stopped her even if he tried, so Milah had absolutely no reason not to be an adult and tell him she was leaving and why (which was neither being nice to him and certainly not giving him what he wanted), other than the fact that she's a horrible person and wanted to leave on the cruelest note possible and overuse her victim card, which the act not only voided out but put her in the negative. She's the entitled brat in this situation.
I don't like Milah. Like, at all. I want to feel sympathy for her, and to some degree I did, but the utterly hateful attitude she had in almost every scene she was in just really turned me off to her character. Rumple not going to battle certainly landed them in a not-desireable situation, and she had a right to be unhappy and upset about it, but I believe that the "you could[should] have died" "I wish I was a widow" talk was crossing a line. And the speed at which she shifted to said hateful attitude gives me the impression that dispite her initial tears at his going to war, she secretly wanted him to die from the start so she could cash in on his equivalant of life ensurance.
I totally count Hook leaving Emma, Snow, Aurora and Mulan in that cell as him trying to kill them. But let's say for the sake of argument that it doesn't count and go back to Belle. I'll first make a note that Belle was my top favorite character on the show. In that cell when Hook hit her unconcious... he was clearly about to kill her, and only didn't because he was stopped. And then later on he menaced her and then shot her memories away, the latter of which (at the time) was practically killing her because she wasn't Belle anymore and it was expected to be permanant. And then he took another favorite character of mine (Archie) and he menaced him too. He basically threatened every single one of my favorite characters, most of which didn't do anything or much of anything to deserve it.
On top of him doing all that, I just don't like pirates. I'm completely anti-romantic about pirates. When I think of a pirate and it isn't obviously just a stage persona, I think of the stereotypical pirate... a gross creep who'll take anything they want (up to and including people) from anyone they want and kill whenever they feel like it. That's my default view of pirates. Killigan might be one of the "I call myself pirate but I'm honestly just an explorer/mercenary who happens to be anti-monarchy", but he identified as a real pirate and he acted like a sleazeball, and I was too mad at him for trying to kill, hurt, sell out, menace, and shoot my favorite characters to care enough to try to overcome my anti-pirate prejudice and see past his sleazeball "act".
I don't want to talk about this anymore. I don't like Killigan or Milah and I'm not obligated to. Especially as I'm not watching the show.
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I think a happy ending for Gold is possible - it's just not in the "living happily ever after way." They did a great job in 3A, so I hope they come up with something similar here, though maybe not with him dying since that'd be redundant now.
I honestly don't entirely blame Rumple for his actions at the tavern since a parent leaving their child alone to go have fun at taverns is something his own father did and that might have made him more determined to make it stop, though to Milah's credit, she at least immediately came home when she actually saw Bae there, showing she loved her son more than Malcolm loved his. And the realistically tragic part about Rumple and Milah's marriage is that no single party was "the abuser" there - it just became toxic due to two people with differing points of views making mistakes. The single thing I think Rumple should get entirely the blame for is not doing enough to salvage that marriage even when Milah asked him to move the family elsewhere.
If Rumple had only listened, maybe she wouldn't have reached a breaking point of wanting to go with Killian AND they'd be away from the draft that threatened to take Bae and led to Rumple becoming the Dark One to start with.
Milah wasn't being "a horrible person" when she left without letting Rumple know - she was simply being a fool and a coward like she herself ADMITTED later on. Rumple didn't respond to the situation in the best way, but I do agree that the situation didn't need to be what Milah made it in the first place.
I only got "utterly hateful" out of a total of two scenes Milah was in - when Rumple came back home from the war crippled, and when she was drunk at the bar. Otherwise I saw her either being supportive of Rumple (before the war) or at least trying to be reasonable to him or in front of him (everything else, including when Rumple was an evil Dark One threatening the life of her true love and screaming at her for her failures as a mother.) And she was never interested in life insurance - she just didn't want to withstand the social maligning that came along with being married to the village coward. She felt she'd RATHER Rumple have died and she been a widow than to be married to a known coward (never "I wish you died" or "I wish I was a widow"), but she also told Rumple "you don't HAVE to be the village coward" because they could start over somewhere else where they'd be in no danger of public scorn, ridicule, or oppression. Milah as bipolar to explain her mood shifts is a theory I'm willing to accept, but not that she was just greedy all along 'cause that did not come off to me at all.
Hook was definitely about to kill Belle in Regina's cell and that was needless, cold, and downright evil of him. That scene, like many in that episode, showed that Captain Hook *gasp* was a bad guy! Yeah, he was not a good person at that time in his life, nor was he when he shot Belle over the town line and expected Rumple to lose her forever thanks to him, just like he'd lost Milah forever thanks to Rumple. (Though it is worth noting that Hook's still got a moral advantage over Rumple here in that 1: he was merciful enough to not take the woman's life like Rumple did, and 2: he was willing to IMMEDIATELY accept a death penalty for having hurt an innocent person, hence his daring Rumple to kill him like he'd done on his ship earlier, jumping in front of the car, and then CONTINUING to taunt Rumple into killing him - even as a villain, Hook understood how basic morality ought to work and that meant villains not getting happy endings after having denied just that to good people.) And while he menaced Archie, he didn't do any damage to him after he folded and told him what he wanted to know. Lots of villains menace my favorite characters and it doesn't mean I have to hate them and find them unforgivable just for THAT. I love August Boothe and Gold not only threatened him in Season 1 (which is sort of justifiable since August had pretended to be his son and tried to control him) but he gleefully tortured him in front of a fireplace in 4B (which was NOT justifiable). I love Emma and she got menaced by Rumple and Regina far more times and in far more severe ways than Hook ever did or could. Yet I still love Rumple as a character and used to like Regina's character overall until Season 4. When a villain by virtue of being a villain does bad things to good characters who don't deserve it, "he did it to [insert favorite character's name here], therefore he's unforgivable and doesn't deserve to be redeemed or loved!" is a biased and myopic opinion to have.
His name is Killian, BTW, not Killigan. And in his Captain Hook days he was definitely an evil, ruthless, skeevy creep of a pirate who would sink to any lows in order to get what he wanted. As with Rumple, I can acknowledge the guys faults and sins but still love the character.
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I agree with you about Neal. He's very much a douche and was no help in Neverland. As cold as it sounds, I have to sometimes wonder why Rumple wanted him back.
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He was a bloomin' HINDERANCE. Rumple and Neal HAD Henry and then Neal had to go and stun Rumple and get him and Henry caught. I mean, I can understand him not being comfortable around Rumple after hearing that, but come on! Like it or not Rumple is his only protection against Pan (AND Rumple, since he didn't have the knife or anything else but a TEMPORARY stunning solution.)
It just shows how strongly Rumple can love once he loves someone.
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Even though he hurt Belle and Archie, my two favorite characters on the show , it's hard to be mad at Hook b/c he's just super sexy! Want to know which of Emma's lovers was my favorite?: Graham. I miss him so much!
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He's definitely very charismatic.
Yeah... Graham was a good one. I wish he wasn't dead...
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Thanks! Expressions are fun to draw. :3
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I ship Swanfire a lot, but probably because I can oddly relate to that coupling
However, I agree with you on Hook, I am not a fan either >.< Sure he has redeemed himself a little, but overall, he just...no...
But where the story is right now, neither of them deserve her -___-
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Hook says he's into Emma "for the long haul" and then immediatly starts hitting on Tinkerbelle........
So far, since he went and got himself engaged to Tammi and took forever to even apologize after she found him, the only thing Neal has going for him is that he's Henry's biological father. And that isn't a very nice thing to have to rely solely on...
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I never liked Hook....character-wise, he's a great character...but I don't like him
As for Neal, he went off and got himself engage because he believed that Emma wouldn't want him back after he left her behind and letting her go to jail... would you take someone back after they ditched you?... he didn't run into Tamara until years later, and even then, he was being manipulated by her... Neal held a lot of grudge and guilt so it is very difficult to apologize, forgive, and ask for forgiveness
And even though he left her to get caught, he gave her the car AND all the money he made off of the watches so she could have a start on a new life after she got out... what sealed the deal for me is the end of Season 2, where before he fell through the portal, they tell each other they love the other...
Unfortunately, with the way Season 3 is going, he either needs to buck up and prove himself, or they introduce a third guy that Emma will end up with
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He's icky.
No. I will never accept Neal's decision to not go try to make things up with Emma. Being afraid that someone you've hurt won't forgive you for hurting them or accept you back into their life is not an excuse to not try your best to apologize to them. That's like stabbing someone and regretting it, but instead of doing something, anything that you can, to help the person that is gasping in pain and bleeding you run off and try your best to forget the nagging pain of regret that you stabbed them because you think they won't be your friend anymore even if you tried helping them get better... meanwhile the person that got stabbed is staggering around trying to not die all on their own. The nagging pain of regret is nothing but a warning light that you need to fix something... not you but the person you hurt. That's the whole point of it. He didn't didn't have a right to forget what he did to Emma by getting with someone else until he had done everything he could to try to make things right with her and she either forgave him or didn't. If Emma forgave him and also accepted him back in her life, then he could be with her again. If she decided not to forgive him or forgave him but didn't want to be in that sort of relationship with him, THEN he could go find another woman to be with.
What he did to Emma broke her ability to trust people. Money (which, as it turned out, she never got) and a car do not mend that. Rumple's offer to turn back the clock for Neal was a much better solution than money and a car............. The fact that he loved her is what makes this all so sad. He cared about her but he was too much of a coward to go try his best to fix things with her. That's what irks me about him I guess. He likes to act like he's so much better than his father, but in this aspect of life at least Rumple has him beat. Because dispite having hurt Bae in a very horrible way, and not having total faith that he would be forgiven, he did everything he could to make it up to him.
Agreed.
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But that's what [I believe] makes him so realistic... How many people do you know will own up to his mistakes, go back and find closure? Most guys fear rejection, so they don't go back to face it
How many people do you know were left with a broken heart and have to find a way to heal on their own, and become broken on the inside...
True, what he did was cowardly, but his choice was not surprising... yes, the car and money did not mend anything, but I believe it showed that he still cared for her even when he ditched her...how many guys out there breaks it off with a girl and not leave anything behind? In my experience/ friend's experiences, there's usually nothing left behind for them besides a broken heart
Swanfire is similar to what happened to me and my current boyfriend [hence the reason why I am rooting for Swanfire]. A few years ago, my boyfriend and I dated, but things got difficult [mainly bc he moved and it became long distance as well as several other problems that arose]. He hurt me real bad, and yet i still had feelings for him and he had feelings for me. However, he couldnt find a way to forgive himself for what he has done, and he didn't think that I would take him back after what he did. To cover his feelings, he found someone else to try to forget me and move on. I, on the other hand, had to cope and figure out ways to forget about him. Years later, we found each other again, and found out that we still love each other [he wasn't with this other girl anymore at this point]. Though it was a rough start, we slowly started to trust each other again and now we are happy together [4 years now]. And it was I who reached out to him first [actually on accident but I was the one who contacted him after those few years.] Even though we have been together for a few years now, he still wants to prove how much he loves and care for me to make up for lost time as well as make up for all the hurt and pain.
That's how i see Swanfire. Love that endures through everything and anything. Even with the mistakes and bad choices that happen, they still love each other. Neal even states that it was the biggest regret of his life to not mend things sooner with Emma, but now he's never going to stop fighting for her.
So was Neal a coward? Yes. Does Neal deserve Emma? Not right now; he has to prove it
And yeah, the issue with him and his father is just a whole other level. that's the only thing that, bothered me about Neal, but again, I understand [i realize i am an uber sympathetic person, i sympathized with the evil queen before her backstory was introduced]. Between Neal and Rumple, it was a lifetime of heartache and issues. So when Rumple has shown so much change, it was hard for Neal to accept that because Neal didn't witness that change. When Neal asked Rumple to change when he was younger, Rumple refused [Bae wanted him to give up his magic, etc]. But I agree with you, the worse thing about Neal is that he thinks he's better than his father, when he's doing the exact same thing [being a coward].
However, unlike almost every other character [especially characters like Regina, Hook and Rumple], we don't see Neal really develop yet besides "I realize that i should have fought for my love, so I'm going to do that now..........11 years late....". Almost all the characters have grown since their time in Storybrooke, Rumple especially. We as the viewers see Rumple change, but Neal hasn't seen, or believe, that rumple changed. True, Neal went through a lot, but he really hasn't grown.
I'm holding out for him, but I can see him being easily written out of the story [there's rumor that there will be a funeral, so...]
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Realistic? Yes. Likeable? Not by a long shot.
I suppose if he sticks to making better life choices from now on and Emma agrees to forgive him and take him back then I will support Swanfire.
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Everyone has their opinion on him... I see why he's not likeable, but I like him anyways...then again, I usually like the least liked characters oddly
Lol, I think it's funny that my side of the family [me and my sister plus a few friends] really like Neal and dislike Hook [on various levels]
Then the other side [several of my cousins and other friends] despise him with a passion and are completely head over heels for Hook
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Nobody you know ships her with the late Graham?
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Lol, I did...but when he died, my ship died with him....
But if they bring him back, I might jump ship and go back on the Graham x Emma ship
But sadly, no... no one that i know of ship them
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I would hope it's not an actual shipping anymore... Difficult to tell sometimes though...
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