barananduen [2020-03-06 22:45:56 +0000 UTC]

I was sent to this article from a support desk ticket, where I was just wondering how the algorithm works (it wasn't a complaint; I was just asking for info) and, after reading it, I have a question... In the latest changes to the engine (so, way past the mentioned here), does submitting a piece to a large number of Groups deboost your deviation vs those that have been submitted to no or extremely few groups? Everything else being equal, I mean.

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fairexposure [2018-06-21 14:14:19 +0000 UTC]

If you know that the fair exposure algorithm is there. Then it is a really annoying feeling when submitting and choosing categories. Since you basically know that you kill all your exposure by putting it in the right category. Assuming you are a digital artist. And punishing for putting your work in right category doesn't sound like a very good design. And it's also reason for people putting stuff in wrong categories. So by fixing the fair exposure algorithm the wrong categories problem is fixed also.

At least make it like 80% less effective that what it is now. If there something that actually is popular in those different categories then it makes sense to lift it a bit among the other popular works, but why raise something that nobody not interested to the front page.

I would suggest that make it only affect works that have at least 500 favs. Since there is a reason why those artworks with 10 favs have only 10 favs. Putting them to front page don't give them much anymore exposure anyway, because there is a reason why they didn't have favs in the first place. They just not that interesting that people actually want to click them.

So better benefit for DA would be to have stuff in front pages that people actually want to click. I mean even from business point of view that would make more sense right? I don't think Tumblr or Twitter going to feature random doodle in the front page that have 10 likes, just because it's in abstract doodle category. No they wont because its just not very good business. If somebody really want see abstract doodles then they can go to that category. Isn't that what the categories are for.

Bit twisted concept of fairness to give others more advantage. Digital artists work just as hard as others. So it would be fair that all are treated equally. I mean it's already 2018 and all. Not 2012 anymore.

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Syvaender [2018-06-14 22:19:05 +0000 UTC]

This seems to be in good intention but I personally have to say it seems to cut out deviants in the middle range of popularity. Really popular artwork with thousands of favorites makes it to the top. Un popular artwork with barely any faves and obscure topics get pushed up by the algorithm and your everyday artist that does not get the help of the he algorithm for whatever reason is down on page 20 or something. 
-there's also artwork that clearly has little to no effort put into it pushed past artwork that clearly took the artist multiple hours 
-the algorithm takes effect in the highest of category branches where the whole explanation about "photography fans favorite less than fanart fans" does not apply. 
-I as an affected artist don't feel fairly treated at all when my fully colored painting gets pushed out of the way by a sketch with less favs/comments/views and more time on the counter. 
I fail to see how this is fair.

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Arthur-Ramsey [2018-05-10 20:09:14 +0000 UTC]

Here is my idea gear DA to main categories of people according to their skill level and make pilots hubs for each Advanced, Intermediate, and Beginner. It’s a box they check when they upload an image then setup your SQL to have browsers for these categories. Advanced artists often spend days working on art only to have somebody’s picture of their neighbor's dog licking the but of another riding at the top of the heap while their masterpiece is almost hidden. Your way puts all skill sets in one bunch and you try to please all but you please none. I might add DA would become more of a viable website for industry looking for professional artists and suddenly your competition websites don't look as attractive because their niche is gearing to a skill set.

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ryky [2018-03-24 16:52:44 +0000 UTC]

Hey  - I recommend - make the categories like  8 hours, 24 hour , 3 day popular  again, like couple years ago, people should see these categories when they come to Deviantart,  Something new and catchy for the eye, not WHATS HOT and pictures which were popular years ago. That no makes any sense and its not catchy for people its kind of annoying, everyone know the most popular artworks on deviantart we dont have to see them again. If these categories  like (8,24,3) will be popular again the new talented watchers can become popular, because on the 8 hours and 24 hours are also people with few watchers and a lot of talents, they will never get in to whats hot ,its impossible for them,and 8,24,3 are relly unpopular right now... I really love Deviantart its my favorite and main site, but i understand why popular people and also begginers start leaving this page and run to instagram. Pictures should be sort  by most favs and views again, also in galleries. That was the best for people, this is how top deviants here become famous,  but the new one dont have any chance anymore to reach this level of (popularity). Worlds needs new artist and we want to know about them. Next thing what should be on frond page is people from your watchlist, minumum % of people click on neews feed, its have to be easier see works from  people you watch. These times are hard for Deviantart and i dont want deviantart  to end like this. PLEASE if you READ this. Do something, do the best for your  people, you are the biggest artist site in the whole WORLD and you should be proud!  I mean all this in a good way, i hope you take your time and think about this, these are some ideas to make this place better, i know its not easy to make it like this, but we can wait, we can really wait for better place, and we want better  Deviantart, we dont want instagram, facebook and other sites, this page  should be  grow and not falling apart. Consider this plese. Im here for more than 11 years. I dont want miss old times on Deviantart, i want enjoying the present on Deviantart. With all the love and best regards,  Ryky  

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goku-no-baka [2018-03-21 16:54:40 +0000 UTC]

From what I've observed, since the end of 2017 8H  front page is spammed by some sort of fetish drawings (various kind) even with mature filter up and mostly ponies and sonic OCs (gotta go fast fellow).
While 24H frontpage is spammed with people with huge audience and new less known artists barely makes there an apperance. Unless they exploit cathegories (which do happen a lot).
People keep spamming same work 10x times within hours to see which one makes It because this sytem is stupid - and sometimes 2 or 3 copies stay very high up!

I basically stopped browsing FP because You find 1 okayish art to a 20 weak ones ratio which sucks.

From what I've observed after failing to even land in top 200 with recent works,  Algorythm appears to compare Your watches / pageviews beside work views/ comments and favs. So after long hiatus, with a lot of inactive community following your website You'll never or barely happen to land on the FP.
Because person with 15 favs and much less watchers will be there first.

Im on da for 14 years - had better or worse moments, but always managed to have a comeback thanks to FP which motivated me to keep investing my time (and money - CORE) into this website.
Right now It just makes me wanna ragequit when I see screenshot with 17 favs stuck in "my" cathegory which is at the very top, where I land on the very bottom with a drawing I spent days to create.
I am not sure what's fair about that?
If artists who actually DRAW don't gain an audience because of a broken system whats the point of staying here?


Fair exposure Is ok as long as there are people who watch over exploited cathegories and maintain a standard so people may discover something interesting and GOOD.
I truly hope DA wont become fetish website like Y!Gallery (and sadly It's slowly & steadily happening).

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GoldenDruid [2018-02-28 15:32:52 +0000 UTC]

Can we get an option to view art by most favorites -as well as- this "fair" algorithm?  That would be ideal.

I hate that the new algorithm is applied to my own gallery when I try to view my most popular pieces.  It makes it much harder to decide on what artwork I should make prints of.   My most faved pieces are scattered all over in an unintelligible order. 

The algorithm is pointless when applied to individuals' galleries, but I can see why it could be useful for browsing.  Please consider bringing back the option to view art by favs as well in individual galleries.  Thank you!

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CatzK3 [2018-02-27 14:16:10 +0000 UTC]

THIS ENTIRE THING IS COMPLETE HORSE SHIT... 

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Pajunen [2017-09-25 16:21:23 +0000 UTC]

As DA uses the Fair Exposure method, the exploits of categories that get more exposure than others, should be monitored more effectively. For example, there are digital drawings or screenshots submitted to the photography or literature section every day, and it's not by mistake. It takes too long before they are relocated, if at all. That way they steal exposure from photographers and writers. I understand mistakes, but I've noticed that certain people are doing it repeatedly and they keep doing it, because that way they get more exposure without any consequences, even they are breaking the rules constantly. 

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Lance-the-young [2017-04-22 22:04:22 +0000 UTC]

Like a lot of folks, I just assumed this was a bug and sent Help Desk a ticket about it, then was brushed off and told to come here.

See, I don't even care about the exposure aspect; I use the Sort By Popularity tool on my own gallery as a way of sorting out what my Watchers want to see. This system seems to put objectively unpopular things in my Top 10, and not even a wide variety of them; of my highest rated things, an overwhelming number are stories, which account for a small fraction of my submissions since they're predominantly not what I focus on. And yet it's the most popular thing in my gallery. Even though it's not. And weirdly, this seemed to start happening a couple of months ago. Is this when 2.1 came out?

I hold that this system genuinely IS "Random" despite claims to the contrary. Has anyone been able to get a straight answer about what criteria this searches for?

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3wyl [2016-08-17 00:05:05 +0000 UTC]

After filing a help desk ticket why inactive groups are shown on the front page of a group directory search term, while active groups are not, I was directed here.

If this algorithm also affects groups, then certain points conflict with what is happening with the groups directory and do not accurately explain or describe what is happening to the groups directory.

These following points, for example:

- The goal is to maximize the display of the most popular deviations in a variety of topics (styles/genres/art forms).
- It uses an algorithm that is "fair" in nature -- meaning not biased toward any topic, yet still based on popularity.
- Changes to Fair Exposure and Popular browse are in the interest of highlighting the best from a wide range of deviants and showcasing an array of styles and genres.
- strike a balance between showcasing depth (i.e. groups or deviations that are popular with many individual deviants) and breadth (i.e. groups deviations that are popular with a wide variety of DeviantArt sub-communities).

"Popularity" or "the best" are not conveyed in groups that have not seen any activity for years that have a handful of watchers.

I understand the problem of "making that which is popular more likely to be seen, gaining even more popularity", but groups are not artwork and can't be treated as such.

People join these groups for many reasons - to interact with others, give and get comments, etc. - and it doesn't do any good for the members or DeviantArt as a community if the groups are not active, but are still shown as the first results on the page. Rather than dividing the community between inactive groups, it makes more sense to unite members in an active group - that's what active groups are for.

I guess it makes more sense that DeviantArt would shoot themselves in the foot this way. Many articles posted through HQ this year have talked about community, interaction, deviant engagement, etc. yet we still seem to be blind to the fact that active groups pave the way for this.

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DahriAlGhul [2016-01-03 04:22:26 +0000 UTC]

Ok, let me try venting my puzzlement about all this once again --- not sure, anyone at DeviantArt-Admin reads this or cares, but whatever.  So ... I just searched for "wonder woman" and "popular last month".  If you scroll down, there are then a ton of screen shots of the original WW TV series with Lynda Carter.  At the top (I think) there is  with 220 views and 22 favs, there are a lot more.  For example, quite a bit further down there is  with 113 views and 10 favs, at this point of writing.  Great show, thanks to for posting them, no complaints.  Shortly after that, you find a piece of mine,  with 273 views and 22 favs.  And considerably further down, you get to  with 181 views and 19 favs.  I happened to be lazy, just checked those few, one can probably come up with a lot more examples just like that.  Just scrolling through what the search finds, it just puzzles me how seeing a huge number of screen shots of that TV show up there and very few 3D renders like mine, if at all, achieves what is claimed here, namely "Fair Exposure's task is to strike a balance between showcasing depth (i.e. deviations that are popular with many individual deviants) and breadth".  The whole thing just doesn't seem to make sense to me at all.  It is frustrating not only to artists who then get pushed all the way down and don't get their art exposed (yeah, sure, that's part of my complaint here!!), but also for anyone looking for work that gets seen by many others.  There is just no way to tell, whether a piece that pops up high in a search lands there because it is truly popular (as the search claims) or just lands there because some funky quirk in the algorithm.  It renders the search fairly useless.  If DeviantArt has the option "randomize results" or "show variety", that would be fine for those that want it.  But why force it?  And why force it in such a strange and bizarre way?  I just cannot figure it out.


c-edward

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Alexaphyr [2015-12-11 22:48:33 +0000 UTC]

Interesting; this is good to know!

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DahriAlGhul [2015-09-30 06:46:16 +0000 UTC]

I figure, i keep collecting funny results of the "fair" algorithm and post them here.  So, just now I searched for "wonder woman" and "popular in last 24 hours".  The deviation  had 9 views and 0 favs ( I gave it one, then! ) and was ranked a few above  at 102 views and 17 favs.  Fascinating.

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Cyberalbi [2015-09-26 18:51:03 +0000 UTC]

Some days ago I submitted



Mature Content

in Digital art/Mixed Media/Fantasy it has 823 views and 27 faves and In Popular 1 week it figures only at the 69 place while fav.me/d9abgud which has 60 views and 25 faves figures at the 11 place, this "fair" popularity algorithm seems to me to be rather strange

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DahriAlGhul [2015-09-25 21:25:55 +0000 UTC]

Ok, griping a bit more.  A few hours ago, I submitted , called "Wonder woman lifts a tank". At this point it 82 views, 9 favs, which makes me happy.  Now, searching for "wonder woman" in the last 8 hours, I find once again many items listed way above me.  For example, there is , it has 26 views, 2 favs, and I have a very hard time seeing any connection top the search term "wonder woman".  There may be one, fine, and nothing against this wonderful artist!  But I have to seriously wonder whether the search algorithm really produces the "popular" items for the search term "wonder woman", as the web site suggests.  How is that helping anyone?  And how is that "fair"?  Truly strange, IMHO.

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Cyberalbi [2015-09-23 22:41:54 +0000 UTC]

Most my works with faves comprised from 100 to 300 and views from 5000 to 20000 which appeared very well in search results before this "fair" algorithm are now practically invisible, it does not seem very fair to me!

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DahriAlGhul [2015-09-21 18:54:46 +0000 UTC]

I am rather puzzled by all this.  Perhaps, being on the "downside" of this "fair" algorithm makes it look particularly unfair to the one who is affected by it?  I shall just give one example.  Last Saturday, I uploaded a deviation "Wonder Woman: shell impact", see .  Now, when searching for "wonder woman" in the last three days, it is listed on page 2, not page 1, despite having gotten 325 views and 19 favs. No issue, I thought, certainly, the other deviations must be more popular then! I just randomly checked a few others way above me: 19 views and 5 favs was one and there were many more like that.  I do not mean to denigrade the other artist and deviations: all power to them!  But, c'mon, 325 vs 19 views?  I submitted a help request for this, since I thought there was a bug ... but apparently, this is the "fair" algorithm.  So odd, so unfair.  My view, at least.

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DahriAlGhul [2015-09-21 18:53:09 +0000 UTC]

I am rather puzzled by all this.  Perhaps, being on the "downside" of this "fair" algorithm makes it look particularly unfair to the one who is affected by it?  I shall just give one example.  Last Saturday, I uploaded a deviation "Wonder Woman: shell impact", see .  Now, when searching for "wonder woman" in the last three days, it is listed on page 2, not page 1, despite having gotten 325 views and 19 favs. No issue, I thought, certainly, the other deviations must be more popular then! I just randomly checked a few others way above me: 19 views and 5 favs was one and there were many more like that.  I do not mean to denigrade the other artist and deviations: all power to them!  But, c'mon, 325 vs 19 views?  I submitted a help request for this, since I thought there was a bug ... but apparently, this is the "fair" algorithm.  So odd, so unfair.  My view, at least.

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Asralore [2015-09-16 15:08:49 +0000 UTC]

this is the worst
i literally sent a trouble ticket cause i thought it was a bug at first. (luckily i got a mail very quickly with a link to this. kudos to that)


it is bad because:

- when i search for popular work, i expect to find actual popular work. this also makes the term 'popular work' on this site highly misleading, and not user-friendly.

- people who worked hard for their popularity get pushed back. not only is this unfair for those artists, but it also makes this hard for them to get people to commission them since their art is "too popular" to show up on DA and fewer people end up seeing their art.

- there are already alternative options to give more unknown artist recognition like 'undiscovered' this makes this system no longer relevant.

- popular work has gained popularity because it is actually relevant to the tags you are looking for, unlike most of the art that shows up. (at least in my case, i can imagine this is not the case for a lot of other people)


i do get the idea behind it though. i honestly think many unknown artist need more exposure. but this idea is simply bad.
i sincerely hope this will be fixed in the near future because i really bothers me and a lot of other users. it doesn't necessarily need to be scrapped, i just needs to be changed or a better alternative needs to come.

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Zekkentak [2015-09-10 23:43:49 +0000 UTC]

So this is update is what caused the website to go to shit..
No surprise considering what it does.

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djailledie [2015-09-09 09:04:33 +0000 UTC]

The changes which have happened around Aug 10th are really frustrating. I have been around for many years, have posted 700 images in the Street category and thought I had understood how it was working. I was making it to the top 5 images quite often, best images to the top, less good ones were less visible... Now after Aug 11th, none of images has appeared in the top 20, and the number of views on my images has been cut by 5x... I am sure that others beneficiate from it and I am happy for them, but images with 20 faves not appearing in the top 20 images, with lots of images with no faves ahead tells me that something is broken!

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mygingergirl [2015-09-07 06:38:41 +0000 UTC]

if someone has some kind of problems talk to me,face to face.... 

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StephanePellennec [2015-09-01 09:27:02 +0000 UTC]

I really don't understand:
How is it fair to push back in the end, far from the eyes, works that are more popular for keeping some of the less popular in front of everybody's eyes (The eyes who want to discover by browsing the first page).

How do you choose what deserves to be put in front?

Today's example:
www.deviantart.com/browse/all/…
This work:
 50 views, 6 favorites is in the top front 
This work from the same artist:
 45 views, 13 favorites is far behind

My work:
 93 views, 21 favorites is behind the first one

This work:



Mature Content

 7 views, 0 favorite is the last one of the list.

When this work:
9 views, 0 favorite is the 3 one of the list (a work that is without doubt in the wrong gallery).

How all this is fair?? I don't understand. 

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PrincessMagical [2015-08-29 06:37:51 +0000 UTC]

And I see that my artwork is being pushed back past artwork that has no faves. I have paid for years of my premium membership and now my work keeps getting pushed back to the very back. And it's not about mine being #1. It's about being fair and showing the most popular to least popular.

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PrincessMagical [2015-08-29 06:00:14 +0000 UTC]

It's not fair and not right to change it. I want to see most popular to least popular like I've always been able to do. I'm a premium member but instead of seeing the good quality artwork, I'm seeing all this porno which should NOT be here to begin with. Please change it back to the way it was.

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PrincessMagical [2015-08-28 15:56:35 +0000 UTC]

Fair exposure isn't accurate for most popular. The system was fine for years.

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