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InsertSomthinAwesome — Pyromaniacess
#cinderfall #rwbyfanart
Published: 2017-10-19 20:42:38 +0000 UTC; Views: 10774; Favourites: 542; Downloads: 0
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Description
So I really like cell shading when it's done well, but I don't do it very often personally, so I gave it a shot recently and this was the result!Personally I'm pleased with it!
Also, I LOVE Cinder's outfits. =3
I am not the owner or creator of any of the material related to RWBY
However I am the creator of this image therefore you are not allowed to use it without my permission.
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Comments: 103
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I absolutely adore this! Well done! She looks absolutely gorgeous!
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Thank you so much!
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Sweet picture. Question: Is it okay with you if I borrow this image for a special request, please? With you’re permission and promise to give you credit after the picture is done, okay?
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Thanks!
Alright, but only as long as you put credit and a link in the description. (Sorry to basically repeat what you said, but I have to be really clear on this.)
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It's cool. Here's the link of image: Cinderfall Trained by Palpatine
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Alright then!
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This is SUPER pretty! <3 Cinder is so pretty~
I think her anatomy is a bit off though, it looks like she's too twisted! Some twisting is obviously possible but I don't think her torso could twist that far with her legs in the position they're in. It might hurt her or cause the spine to kinda come apart. But even still this is really really nice! I love the shading and the lighting and everything! Especially the flames <3
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Thank you so much!
xD I think you are right. I was going for effect more than logic.
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You're welcome! <3
Well even with that, it's a beautiful pic
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Haha, thanks.
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I hate Cinder, but I am interested in what she'll do in this volume. I doubt they'll kill her off just yet, but something bad is bound to happen when she confronts the Spring Maiden. I await that fight with dread.
You did a great job with this picture. I'm not an expert on clothes, but I think it's safe to say you nailed her outfit. Her expression looks just right too - she must be fighting someone she genuinely wants to kill, but also knows to take it seriously. She's not playing around like she did with Pyrrha. I wish I could say more, but you probably haven't seen the latest episode yet, so...
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You shouldn't hate Cinder just for killing Pyrrha. You should hate Pyrrha for charging in to fight someone she had no chance against, a person who didn't even care about killing her until she came under attack and fought back.
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Why hate anybody? Pyrrha made a flawed decision.
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Eh...I phrased that poorly. It's not really Pyrrha's fault either. It's Ozpin's. He convinced her that if he did not obey her, everyone would die and it would be her fault, all to maintain his control of the world. www.youtube.com/watch?v=OFpte_…
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Which makes it easy to sympathize with Jaune when he's so upset about hearing how Pyrrha got put in that situation.
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A shame that Jaune completely drops that entire plotline. As does everyone else. Seriously, do these people have no reaction to finding out a shadow government has been using them as human shields?
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I can only assume they wanted to put it on the backburner until they got their own situation under control. Here's hoping we can see more of it the closer they get to Atlas.
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But "their own situation" is...fighting on behalf of that shadow government, against people whose motivation is to overthrow that government and liberate them. Have none of these people considered that they're fighting for the wrong side?
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I feel like considering Salem wants to divide and destroy humanity and is strongly connected to the Grimm, and the White Fang was being spearheaded by a man whose goal would give Killmonger goosebumps, they're more focused on fighting forces that are visibly dead-set on killing innocent people. This shadow government is hardly morally clean, but they are the lesser of two evils.
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Salem does not hate humans or want them dead. Her entire motivation is based on how she cares about them. She is morally disgusted with how Ozpin rules them from secret and uses them as human shields. Her closest allies are all humans and she treats them as if they were her children.
The WF's goals do not line up with the rebellion against Oz's tyranny.
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I promise I'll keep this in mind when rewatching the series to prep for V6, but for now, I think we'll have to agree to disagree. I don't trust myself to have a civil argument.
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Can't disagree about facts. RWBY's canonical image songs have confirmed her motivations.
Ask yourself -- what exactly would she gain from killing everyone for no reason? It makes no sense as a character motivation, and is inconsistent with how she treats her allies.
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Alright, I guess this is as good a time as any to practice being civil in an argument.
Are we referring to Divide? There's nothing in that song about liberation. While it does call Ozpin out for using children as soldiers, there's no remorse to it; it just promises that they'll die horribly, too. Unless you meant a different song, there are no facts that back up this interpretation.
I think you are right in that Salem's motivation hasn't been confirmed as wanting humanity dead, but even characters that never trusted Ozpin regard her as a threat to their existence.
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"There's nothing in that song about liberation"
But her motivation is liberation from his secret rule. The entire 3rd verse is about that. Her whole war against him is a rebellion against his secret rule.
"While it does call Ozpin out for using children as soldiers, there's no remorse to it; it just promises that they'll die horribly, too."
You miss the point. She calls him out on MORAL grounds. "Dark, sick, cruel". "Your sins". She takes MORAL ISSUE with his shadow government and human shields. This proves she cares about moral life and considers his actions to be morally wrong and herself to be morally right in overthrowing him.
"but even characters that never trusted Ozpin regard her as a threat to their existence."
You mean Birdbrain. One character. A character who has never met Salem or her allies, by her own admission, and is scared of her for irrational reasons.
I'm going to remind you that Ozpin, fucking Ozpin, the person dedicated to maintaining his power and preventing her from overthrowing him at all costs, her archenemy, has not claimed she wants to kill everyone. If she wanted to, he would have told the other characters that. He did not. He says she merely wants to "change the world", away from his world.
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Yes, it is about overthrowing him, but there is nothing about liberation. Nothing about the song is benevolent. To liberate and to overthrow aren't the same.
It is calling him out on morals, but pointing that out does not make Salem better. She has no issue bragging to Ozpin that the children he trains are all going to suffer and die. She cares about spiting Ozpin, not protecting the people under his rule.
I mean Raven. Who is, indeed, one character. Does that delegitimize it? Because if that were the case, these arguments would all fall apart because they come from individual characters. And almost nobody has met Salem, but Raven does, in fact, meet and work with her associates. She is not convinced that she and Vernal are actually going to be spared, and she's right. The two are betrayed.
First off, if you're going to say that Ozpin is the evil, dishonest person in all this, you can't cherry-pick things that he says and treat them as the complete and indisputable truth. Second, it's just that: incomplete. When there isn't a certain meaning behind that, it can be twisted or perceived in a whole manner of ways. Did he ever outright claim the opposite, that she wanted to save the world? Not to mention that I would classify a slaughter of humanity as a pretty big change to the world.
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>Yes, it is about overthrowing him, but there is nothing about liberation.
Fighting to overthrow an unjust authority for the sake of the people oppressed by it is liberation by definition.
>Nothing about the song is benevolent.
Except she is doing all of this for the moral sake of freeing humans, her motivations are moral ones, that is benvolent. I’m going to note that Cinder’s motivations are explicitly confirmed as “benevolence” by Sheena, and Cinder and Salem share the same motives as seen with the identical rhetoric between Sacrifice and Divide:
twitter.com/sheenaduquette/sta…
twitter.com/sheenaduquette/sta…
>It is calling him out on morals, but pointing that out does not make Salem better.
If you make a moral judgement of someone who is your enemy, that inherently means that you consider yourself to be morally right in what you are doing and your enemy to be morally wrong. The reasons Salem is fighting to overthrow Ozpin are moral ones. That is what Divide confirms.
>She has no issue bragging to Ozpin that the children he trains are all going to suffer and die.
That is not “bragging”. She is saying that his actions are sick and wrong because he is using them as human shields against them, and thus her fight against him will kill them AND IT WILL BE HIS FAULT. She calls this out as sick, cruel, and a sin, and says he should be ashamed of it. She sees what he does in using human shields as wrong.
>She cares about spiting Ozpin, not protecting the people under his rule.
She cares about LIBERATING THEM FROM HIS RULE. Not “spite”. Morally-motivated rebellion against tyranny.
>I mean Raven. Who is, indeed, one character.
Yes, Birdbrain. Who is an idiot scared of her for irrational reasons, who HAS NEVER MET HER and is EXPLICITLY just straight up WRONG about how she treats her allies.
>Does that delegitimize it? Because if that were the case, these arguments would all fall apart because they come from individual characters.
…You’re missing the point. I’m talking about what Salem herself says her motivations are in her image song. Birdbrain’s view of her is incorrect because it is based on fear, it is unfounded as the two have never met, and because it does not match what Ozpin says about her (Ozpin has the ultimate bias against her and yet even he does not claim she wants to kill everyone). Birdbrain is WRONG. This is not an equivalent situation to Salem stating what her own motivations are.
>And almost nobody has met Salem, but Raven does, in fact, meet and work with her associates.
WRONG, from her own mouth Birdbrain HAS NEVER MET SALEM’S ALLIES BEFORE: youtu.be/pUvI77URqA0?t=2m56s She is wrong about Salem killing her allies when they are “no longer useful” or fail her. This false view of Birdbrain’s is disproved simply by looking at Cinder and Tyrian, both of whom she cares for and rehabilitates, and at Em and Merc, who she cares for despite not being “useful” to her.
>She is not convinced that she and Vernal are actually going to be spared, and she's right. The two are betrayed.
WRONG, Cinder only attacked her and Vernal after she caught THEM about to betray her! She was planning on opening the door, taking the macguffin, and then leaving the two in peace. She has nothing to gain from killing them. Cinder caught Birdbrain about to draw her sword and attack her, then attacked before they were able to betray her. Salem and Cinder have LITERALLY NO REASON to kill either of them after they got the macguffin. Everything would have worked out fine for Birdbrain if she hadn’t betrayed Cinder.
>First off, if you're going to say that Ozpin is the evil, dishonest person in all this, you can't cherry-pick things that he says and treat them as the complete and indisputable truth
That’s not what I’m saying! My point is that Ozpin has every reason to use Salem’s supposed desire to kill everyone as a way to motivate people to fight for him, but he doesn’t, disproving the idea that this is her goal. If she wanted to do that, he could easily convince people to join his side by claiming she plans on doing so. HE DOES NOT. The fact that even the person with the most bias in the world against her does not claim she wants to do this is proof she does not want to do this.
>Did he ever outright claim the opposite, that she wanted to save the world? Not to mention that I would classify a slaughter of humanity as a pretty big change to the world.
But if she wanted to do that, he would claim it. Why would he say something good about her? My point is that if she wanted to kill everyone, he would have claimed so, and he did not, ergo she does not plan on doing so.
This bullshit fake motivation makes ZERO SENSE. She would gain nothing from it, and it is COMPLETELY inconsistent with the care for human life that motivates her, or the way she treats her allies like family! Stop spreading misinformation!
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It's for her own sake. There is nothing that confirms a desire to free the people. Thus, it is not for the sake of the people, and it is not liberation.
Assigning a character to a tarot card is not explicit confirmation. Though Sacrifice does imply disgust with Ozpin's actions, the focus is that she does not want to be one of his pawns. This is not an indicator of being a good person. In fact, we see Cinder openly enjoying the suffering and death at the Fall of Beacon. Not to mention "When it Falls", which is about the plan to destroy Beacon and tear down Ozpin, details that "mankind will wilt in pain". That is not something a hero says. That does not indicate a desire to liberate and save people. That is a flat-out declaration that the plan is for humanity to die.
Again, just because Divide includes Salem taunting Ozpin for his actions does not mean she is a good person. There is no actual confirmation, at any point in the song, that Salem is doing it for them.
And again, there is nothing about liberation. There is not a single line in the song that actually confirms a single thing about Salem wanting to free people from Ozpin's rule. You can make connections in your mind, but these are not the "facts" you made them out to be. They're interpretations.
Again, not meeting Salem does not somehow delegitimize people. Almost nobody has met her in person. And Raven is right. Salem will kill her allies at a whim. She could have kept Leo on, as he never even betrayed her; he just got scared. But she killed him.
Yeah, Raven never met Salem's allies before Volume 5. It's a good thing I never said she did. Rather, I said that Raven DOES meet and work with Salem's allies. Over the course of V5. When Cinder, Watts, Em, and Merc go to her camp and talk to her face-to-face. Raven's idea that Salem kills people not of use to her anymore is, again, proved by the fact that Salem killed Leo.
Nothing to gain? Cinder is explicitly interested in gaining the power of the Spring Maiden and despairs when she can't find and steal it from Vernal. She had everything to gain from betraying them. Her hunger for power, even if it took killing an ally, is why Raven had no reason to trust that they could just help Salem and get off scot-free.
Ozpin doesn't leave that bit out of his description of Salem because she's good. He doesn't need to elaborate on it because everybody already knows that she wants to kill them. Ruby points out that the Fall of Beacon is a clear indicator that Salem is not a good person and will kill anybody.
Ozpin didn't say anything good about Salem. Him not outright stating that she wants to kill humanity is not evidence that Salem is a selfless liberator of humanity. It's a lack of evidence for either conclusion.
It's not a fake motivation, and it sure is consistent with the plans that she's set in motion regardless of how she may decide to treat her inner circle. The idea that she's motivated by a care for human life is inconsistent with the slaughter at Beacon and Vale, and would have been followed up by a slaughter at Haven. It's not misinformation; it's literally a repeated summary of the things that Salem and her associates have done. The idea that Salem is benevolent and heroic, on the other hand, is based off of interpretation and has no true confirmation.
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Draco Lord Nick BTFO all the misinfo going around about Cinder, Salem, Hazel, and RWBY's other antagonists: www.youtube.com/playlist?list=… It'd be good to watch these videos.
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>It's for her own sake. There is nothing that confirms a desire to free the people. Thus, it is not for the sake of the people, and it is not liberation.
The reason she hates Ozpin is because of how he treats the people he rules, not her. Nothing in verse 3 is about her, it is all about the people Ozpin rules and sacrifices. It is 100% for the sake of the people. Rebellion against unjust authority is liberation by definition.
>Assigning a character to a tarot card is not explicit confirmation.
No, I’m not talking about that. I’m talking about how Sheena said that Cinder’s motivation was “benevolence”. The context of what prompted her to state this is irrelevant. What matters is her confirmation of her having good motivations.
>Though Sacrifice does imply disgust with Ozpin's actions, the focus is that she does not want to be one of his pawns. This is not an indicator of being a good person.
No, Sacrifice explains Cinder’s motivations for wanting to overthrow Ozpin. “Blind and keep the people on their knees”, “even with the lives you stole”. MORAL JUDGEMENTS.
>In fact, we see Cinder openly enjoying the suffering and death at the Fall of Beacon.
She is enjoying the overthrow of Ozpin and her victory. This does not negate her motivations.
>Not to mention "When it Falls", which is about the plan to destroy Beacon and tear down Ozpin, details that "mankind will wilt in pain".
She says that this is the result OF OZPIN’S CABAL. Not her. “Their iron gloves” are what she blames for mankind’s state. Look at the context.
>That is not something a hero says. That does not indicate a desire to liberate and save people.
But her motivations are still to liberate people. Sacrifice confirms this, her speech (which she shows genuine anger during, meaning it is her genuine motivations) confirms this, her conversation with Adam where she says her goal is a revolution and Adam says she has “a human cause” confirms this. Stop ignoring fact.
>That is a flat-out declaration that the plan is for humanity to die.
No, no it fucking isn’t. CINDER IS A HUMAN HERSELF! HER ALLIES ARE ALL HUMANS! They care about how humans are treated, that’s the entire point of their motives! They take moral issue with how Ozpin treats people. This means they inherently value human life and how humans are treated.
>Again, just because Divide includes Salem taunting Ozpin for his actions does not mean she is a good person.
This is not fucking “taunting”! It’s a MORAL GODDAMN JUDGEMENT! If you make a MORAL JUDGEMENT of someone that means you believe yourself to be morally right and them to be morally wrong. How hard is this for you to understand? Moral judgements are not mere “taunting”.
>There is no actual confirmation, at any point in the song, that Salem is doing it for them.
THE ENTIRE THIRD VERSE! She calls how Ozpin treats the humans “sick and cruel”, she calls it a “sin” which she is going to make him pay for, she says he will regret his evil actions…you’re denying basic fact.
>And again, there is nothing about liberation. There is not a single line in the song that actually confirms a single thing about Salem wanting to free people from Ozpin's rule.
THE! ENTIRE! THIRD! VERSE! IS! ABOUT! THIS! The whole verse is chewing out Ozpin for his actions and explaining why Salem hates him so much and wants him overthrown. It is because of how he rules people from secret, lies to them, and tricks them so that he can use them as human shields. Salem takes MORAL ISSUE with this and makes it clear that her motivation for fighting him is to put an end to this.
>You can make connections in your mind, but these are not the "facts" you made them out to be. They're interpretations.
No, no, fucking no. Moral judgements are not “interpretations”. A moral judgement BY ITS VERY NATURE INHERENTLY implies that the person judging finds what the person being judged to be morally in the wrong. I am merely repeating WHAT SALEM HERSELF SAYS HER MOTIVATIONS ARE and you are just denying them.
>Again, not meeting Salem does not somehow delegitimize people.
How would she know how Salem operates if she had never met her or her allies?
>And Raven is right. Salem will kill her allies at a whim. She could have kept Leo on, as he never even betrayed her; he just got scared. But she killed him.
WRONG! He very much betrayed her! He was searching for his Scroll to rat her out. She killed a potential loose end, not just someone who “failed her”. Compare it with how she treated Cinder, Tyrian, Em, and Merc. If she operated the way Birdbrain FALSELY thinks, she would have killed Cinder and Tyrian when they failed, and she would have killed Em and Merc because they weren’t of any use to her. SHE DID NOT, ergo Birdbrain is WRONG. Leo was never a genuine ally, he was a coward working with her out of fear who would betray her at a moment’s notice and was going to do so if she had not killed him before he ratted her out.
>Yeah, Raven never met Salem's allies before Volume 5. It's a good thing I never said she did. Rather, I said that Raven DOES meet and work with Salem's allies. Over the course of V5.
But she had her false view of Salem before she met them. How would she “learn” how Salem treats her allies from that conversation? If you’re saying her false view comes from that conversation with them, how?
>When Cinder, Watts, Em, and Merc go to her camp and talk to her face-to-face. Raven's idea that Salem kills people not of use to her anymore is, again, proved by the fact that Salem killed Leo.
…”proven” by A THING THAT HADN’T FUCKING HAPPENED YET? She had her false view years before any of that, and expressed it in V5E9 before Leo was killed in V5E12. And again, Em and Merc were “not of use” and she TREATS THEM LIKE HER FUCKING CHILDREN WHICH SHE CARES FOR. Leo was a TRAITOR, he could not be trusted. How would talking to her allies give Birdbrain the impression Salem kills them? Nothing in the convo even remotely implies that.
>Nothing to gain? Cinder is explicitly interested in gaining the power of the Spring Maiden and despairs when she can't find and steal it from Vernal.
She only does so AFTER SHE CATCHES THEM ABOUT TO BETRAY HER! She makes it clear what the plan is before that. Open the door, she goes in and gets the macguffin, she leaves them in peace after that. End of story. She doesn’t need the power of the Spring Maiden until they betray her. Watts explicitly said that THE MAIDENS ARE JUST A MEANS TO AN END in V5E9.
>Her hunger for power, even if it took killing an ally, is why Raven had no reason to trust that they could just help Salem and get off scot-free.
Cinder is not motivated by “power”, this is again, a MEANS TO AN END for her, her goal is overthrowing Ozpin.
>Ozpin doesn't leave that bit out of his description of Salem because she's good. He doesn't need to elaborate on it because everybody already knows that she wants to kill them.
None of these people knew who Salem was until he said she existed! How would they “already know” something which is not stated or implied by any of her allies? All they know is she is someone trying to overthrow Ozpin. He “leaves it out” (or rather, DOES NOT STATE SOMETHING WHICH IS FALSE) because it isn’t even remotely fucking true.
>Ruby points out that the Fall of Beacon is a clear indicator that Salem is not a good person and will kill anybody.
The fact she attacked Ozpin’s base as part of the war says NOTHING about her motives. Ruby does NOT say this implies she wants to kill everyone. NON SEQUITUR.
>Ozpin didn't say anything good about Salem. Him not outright stating that she wants to kill humanity is not evidence that Salem is a selfless liberator of humanity. It's a lack of evidence for either conclusion.
My point is that he has EVERY REASON IN THE WORLD TO ARGUE SHE WANTS TO DO THIS, yet he does NOT. He does not say anything good, but he does not say that she has the bullshit motivation you believe she does. He has EVERY REASON IN THE WORLD TO ALLEGE THIS IS HER GOAL. He does not. The fact even the person most biased against her does not claim this is what her motive is speaks volumes as to her goals not being what you think they are. It is OUTRIGHT PROOF AGAINST THIS BEING HER MOTIVE.
>and it sure is consistent with the plans that she's set in motion regardless of how she may decide to treat her inner circle.
Except she treats them like family she cares for. The director’s commentary for V4E1 and V4E11 confirm this care is GENUINE, not some sort of act. She cares about humans. She does not hate them or want them dead. Her STATED MOTIVATIONS IN HER OWN IMAGE SONG, HER INNER THOUGHTS AND FEELINGS, ARE THAT SHE CARES FOR HUMAN LIFE.
>The idea that she's motivated by a care for human life is inconsistent with the slaughter at Beacon and Vale, and would have been followed up by a slaughter at Haven.
Her METHODS are I R R E L E V A N T. She is waging a total war against Ozpin’s tyranny. Did William T. Sherman want to kill everyone because he waged total war against the South? That’s the argument you are making here. It is a BULLSHIT NON SEQUITUR. Divide verse 3 OUTRIGHT CONFIRMS HER MOTIVATIONS ARE THAT SHE CARES ABOUT HOW HUMANS ARE TREATED.
>The idea that Salem is benevolent and heroic, on the other hand, is based off of interpretation and has no true confirmation.
No, it is based off the MORAL FUCKING JUDGEMENTS she makes, the motivations of her allies Cinder and Hazel, the writers' word of god, and the fact tat even the person most biased against her does not claim she wants to do what you and other denialists falsely accuse her of.
STOP! DENYING! REALITY!
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Alright, dude, I think I've had enough. It's clear there's no way to properly have an argument about this, and at this point, we're just going about in circles, the same exact issue each time. Neither of us is able to prove anything to the other because we're both convinced that our views are the real deal, and because of that, there's no way for either of us to change each other's minds. And besides, this way, we're both doing better things with our time.
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I mean, if you want to go on denying reality, go ahead and do so. Just please don't try and convince others to deny reality with you.
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It's really more of sticking to an interpretation than denying a reality, and I'm going to keep sharing it with others in the hope of a nice discussion instead of a heated argument. I wish you hadn't used my attempt at a peace offering to try and declare yourself correct again.
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Oh yeah that could be REALLY bad.
^__^ Wow thanks! =]
No I haven't, I won't be able to until next Saturday.
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She's already lost all her screentime and role in the plot. Give it a break Cinder hatedom...
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Hardly a permanent loss.
And what she did was unforgivable. I'll give it a rest once she gets proper comeuppance.
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It is a permanent loss until they kill off the Trash Lady who replaced her role in the plot.
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