HOME | DD

InvaderMax In reply to DeviantIrk [2010-12-17 06:14:09 +0000 UTC]

Thank you. ^^ I've always wanted to draw someone with a lot of wrinkles, since one of the hardest things in realism humans for me is the smoothness of the skin. I just don't like big areas without detail, like on cheeks and foreheads and such, so this was really fun for me.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

DeviantIrk In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-20 11:24:18 +0000 UTC]

Really? Heh, I did not really dare drawing skin which was not very smooth until now...! XD
I should give it a try once, but not now. I am not really sure whether I can do that...

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-15 00:11:00 +0000 UTC]

Thank you. I had a great deal of fun with it. When I read Squee I found the slightly-more-detailed version of her to be interesting, so I think that might have been what planed the seed. And as for the black background, I love how she sort of slithers around and appears out of shadows, so I wanted to do something emphasizing that (plus I was too lazy to do a normal background ).

For some reason I think of droopy ear piercings when I think of old, wrinkled ladies.

I haven't really talked to you since I returned. How have things been going? I see you've been delving deeper into realism and have had a great deal of success.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-15 08:18:42 +0000 UTC]

Oh, I hadn't noticed she looked different there! Once I look for the comic scan I found I'll try to remember that!
Yeah, a lot of people who just slap on a plain black background usually get easy points for dramatics, whereas they could have put so much more to it.. but with Ms. Bitters, a plain black background couldn't result better! Lucky you!

Yeah, well in the last couple of months, with my final entry of Blood Sport, my first early-Uni course, plus being in the Southern Hemisphere, end of school year exams meant that I haven't been talking to many people on here at all, to be frank!
That's wonderful for you to notice, that's right! I really want to broaden myself and be able to put down the ideas in my head in a more believable way.
How do you feel you are going artistically, so far? Your two most recent are speed-paints, and you said you want to work with your "Realism by perception". I don't really understand, is this kind of like Impressionism art?

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-17 07:20:34 +0000 UTC]

I'm virtually always lazy with backgrounds. It's quite bad of me. XP

That's awesome! This is going to sound cheesy, but I love to see artists I know make progress towards a goal of some sort (usually realism because the progress is so punctuated).

You know, I'm not entirely sure where I stand in regards to my art right now. I recently shut down my main account here on dA because my work had just hit a point of utter stagnation. I can see improvements I've made here and there, but over all it's been years since I really advanced as an artist. But as a means to keep myself drawing, I decided to try to post at least one thing in this account every week (at least a quick little sketch in my scraps or something). Instead I've been doing this kind of stuff. *points at Bitters*

Originally this message was extremely long, but I rewrote it to be more concise. Basically, this "realism via perception" idea is to draw something base on how people see objects, not based on the objects themselves. I've striven for realism my whole life (literally, since I was able to pick up a crayon) but I've always tried to achieve it by packing more and more details into an image in hopes that the details will get the point across. This is fine and dandy, but doesn't work when you're like me and don't instinctively understand things like multiple lighting sources and color-matching. So this speedpainting technique is a way to try to force myself to express the idea of the subject, not to recreate the subject like a photograph like I automatically want to do.

I figure doing this will train me to get a handle on the key concepts I lack so badly, but by using a style which is fast and messy enough that I (hopefully) won't be perfectionistic about it. Theoretically, if I get good enough at it, it will automatically evolve into realism. But to be honest I gave up on realism a long time ago, so for now I'm just hoping this speedpainting will be something I can enjoy in and of itself.

I could go into a long rant about my past styles, artistic output needs, and sanity, but I'll spare you right now. lol. I have a very strange relationship with art, and it's not exactly a happy one. This speedpaint is just another attempt to improve it, and that's something I could probably write a short book on.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-17 10:06:38 +0000 UTC]

Push yourself out of it! That's what I'm doing (though not succeeding so much at the moment )I still adore how you composed this [link] Although you used brushes, it was put so well together and was worth it anyway!

Cheesy, no doubt! XD But hey, it's not the first I've heard someone say that.. and I'm also an offender! I agree, although cartoon/non-realistic artists ALSO improve, it's normally just in terms of style.

I draw everyday, and I feel to be having a lot of ideas flowing through me. I have gotten a lot of interests lately, the culture of the Aztecs, haute couture, music videos, psychology, and even demons at the moment! (didn't expect that one) All this to say: Do feel inspired by your environment? Or is it lack of time that's hindering you at the moment?

No worries, I've had in one message to a close friend here just "chopped out" rather than abridged my comment
But I see now... yes, recreating things is difficult. Shading and forming a object to be real, is difficult. It could take years to be a professional at it, and I know that's what I'll have to face.
Multiple light sources.. when you attempt it, do you break each part down like "Light Source 1, complete. Now, attempt Light Source 2 on top.." or do you do it all at once? I do find it daunting if you break it down, and just add as you go along. Not sure about "colour-matching" - is that like Colour Theory, or how colours influence emotions or aesthetic appeal?

I can empathise with you about that Some of the time I don't feel good for my art, rather so slave over it to be half decent! But I really enjoy sweeping the pencil, the tablet pen, to form good looking shapes. Sometimes I don't enjoy my drawings, even get ashamed, but I'm learning to enjoy them a little more, even my old works (: I just say "Oh lordie, what was I thinking!"

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-21 00:38:35 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, I wish I still had those brush sets. =/ I got them from a classmate and lost them in a computer crash.

I've been trying to work on a cartoony style as well as a faux-realism one for quite some time. I'd like to have something vaguely equivalent to JtHM/etc which I could do without much trouble, but even with things on that level (and lower, even) I still have to draw/redraw/reredraw things, which is probably the most frustrating thing to me. I think if I could just find the right way to do faces easily-yet-well I could whip up a style in no time, given my progress on the other aspects of the style. I think I've narrowed down some ideal methods for drawing cartoony bodies and coloring, which I'm very happy about since I've been struggling with that as well. So at least I'm making some note-worthy progress. ^^

Well, that's kind of an interesting thing for me to answer. I'm inspired on a regular basis, sometimes very deeply, and I have the time to make art. The problem is that I usually lack ideas, so I'll get inspired and just sit with a pencil in my hand staring at a blank piece of paper. For example, I'll really want to design a mask, but I'll be unable to think of what details to put on it. Or I'll be really angry and want to express the problem in a painting, but no image comes to mind. On the opposite end of the spectrum, I'll be inspired, and I'll have a rather clear idea of what I want to do, but I won't have the ability to do it. Back to the examples, I manage to draw the detailed mask, but I won't have the money/materials to make it. Or I'll get an idea for what kind of image I'd like to paint, but no matter how hard I try I can't even get the base sketch to turn out right.

On that note, I can bring the conversation back to the style-building. I'm inhibited by my inability to draw in a satisfactory way, so when I get an idea I often can't produce it. I'll take a great deal of time trying to draw it right and the fact that I have to erase and try again over and over really kills my spirit. I want to draw, but I just can't seem to put it on paper. So if I had a style which I could just whip out I would draw a great deal more (even if the end result was really simple and unimpressive). That's why I want so badly to find a style for myself: I just want to have a reliable artistic output for when I want to draw. If I could have that, I would be a great deal happier as an artist, I believe. For example, right now I have an idea for a comic-book-type-thing I'd love to work on, but even just doing character concept sketches is like pulling teeth. =/

Oh, those were just examples. I've tried a few methods for several-source lighting, and I've been getting better at making the colors fit together, but they're still things I need to work on. And the color-matching I'm talking about is just a way to unify the piece (like if I'm drawing an Irken I'll have to put green in places even where it's not green to tie into the skin, etc) so yeah, I suppose it's color theory. I've taken a color theory class, but had a very poor teacher, so I don't know quite how to explain it...

Yeah, I draw for the sake of drawing itself, not really for the end product anymore. I love to just zone-out and get lost in a piece for hours as I'm working on it. To me that is paradise. But when drawing is a struggle, I can't get into that trance-like mindset, which (here it comes again!) is the main reason I want a reliable style. It all boils down to the fact that I want to produce art with ease, which is what I'm trying to get by working on these speedpaints and the comic style. Once I can do that, quality will follow by sheer force of automatic practice. Right now it's just a matter of finding a starting point.

And to go back to something you said in the middle of your reply, I'm the same way with my inspirations. I find Ancient Egypt very inspiring and can never seem to learn enough about it. Science in general (though mainly psychology) is also of great interest to me. I've actually been tempted to do stylistic paintings of the molecular structure of cells a few times. lol. And as for demons, I've used them as a source of creativity for several years now. I sometimes use them as a base for characters in my writing when I want to give them some depth (since it's fun to work with their flaws and good qualities on a loose level like that). A prime example of this is actually one of my main Irken characters: [link] (read the Artist's Comments).

btw, I'm tempted to break this message up into two ongoing conversations so that the replies aren't so long. Would you mind that or shall I go ahead and do it? I just find numerous short replies less daunting. lol.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-21 12:10:22 +0000 UTC]

Ah, so you've been referring a lot to other cartoon styles by other cartoonists? Style progression I'm still going through myself, and I've found some great looking styles already, but I'm still trying to piece my own. But what you say you have to draw/redraw, you mean it's because you're often unsatisified with what you're drawing? Yes, you're just like me - I am absolutelty stuck on drawing faces that I can draw quickly, and still look right!

Ohh.. I'm moreso stuck in the I'll be angry, but I don't know how to express it in a drawing". They say draw what naturally, whatever comes from my mind and travels to the hand.. just don't quite understand that, really. Just when you say so with the last bit, you find an idea and you want to draw it instantly, but don't get it right. I get this too. However you've heard of the technique when you want to draw from a refernece like a photo, that you should turn the photo upside down to get it mroe accurate? If you are, you should be aware it's because we are too busy "assuming" the shape of the image with our brains looking at it from a normal angle, right side up. I think this can be like for our ideas too, when we want to draw, say a person in a contorted, painful pose for example, we'll close our eyes, look at the image in our mind, and draw it just as how we see it and then... not quite it I have no other evidence to back this up, but this is just a theory I can up with because I always get this and I feel so bad about it when I can't draw exactly what I wanted. I came up with something this evening so I would love to try anything to tackle it...

What you are saying, AGAIN in this paragraph, I feel all the time too, ahh! When I can't draw something I want, realistically for example, I'll be dishearted, give up, and draw the same or something different in a cartoony style or something and yeah.. never is it as impressive. Maybe I'm not patient enough to re-draw and re-draw and erase amd re-draw again until it's right? I even Michelangelo for painting that chapel ceiling for something like 10 years, close to before he died. Amazing. But like that, I wish I could come up with a style I can draw 100 times the same, in 100 different poses, and like, all the same time. Well, as I've been going along da, I have made a Favourite's Folder called "Great Art Styles", with features in the drawings I really liked. Hopefully I'll be able to develop something quicker with those ideas and seeing what I can draw quickly and swiftly. So far I've been liking a lot of the style of "Hanna's Not a Boy's Name", and it does look like something I could mimic.. However I don't think my lines are harsh/squared enough
Maybe it's because we need to learn more about the dynamics of realism first? I saw this guy on dA who was a bit of a jerk but seemed to have some good points. He said "study realism first, THEN draw your damned anime". Saying this to some anime artists.. who honestly, yes, they weren't good and seemed to just draw front on pictures all the time, but they lacked the idea of how anatomy works, how to shape certain body parts, etc. He then said that the coming of the anime style was from the observations of Japanese artists, who originally drew realism, who wanted to make more realistic animatons than those of Disney and other American cartoons. Maybe we both need to delve further into anatomy first?.. I'm not sure still, I'ven ever had a second opinion on this (and nobody who I could relate to, artistically!) and thus I've been wondering around in circles. What that guy said never left me. I started drawing anime myself - it was just easy P:

Oh.......... yes, I think I get what you mean by that yes. I think that the colour-matching thing, like with your example, putting green on places on places like maybe bits of the clothing to suit the skin, is either because even on non-shiney objects, objects still have some reflectivity and will reflect a little of the colour that's closest to them or... maybe osmething like this, like how everything looks like it exists in one place because it's green/yellow tinted [link] I think that's more like "atmosphere" though. I think this kinda problem is easy to fix with "Auto Color" on Photoshop which balances the colours in an image, and I read in the past by other artists that what they used to.. and it worked well for me! I used a suggested skin-colour pallete for a picture I did, but when I put in the background and coloured in her clothes, my picture looked like this [link] It looked ok but the colour tones seemed too wrong next to eachother, nothing matched the other. So I used that simple setting, and the blues from the clothes equalled out with the skin tone, so the skin tone picked up some of the blue [link] Hopefully this is what you mean by it! I have yet to learn to do it for myself, but for now filters are my friend.

Yes Sit, draw, work the colours of the digital pallete, running the pencil lead on paper surface, lovely. You're just like me though, I want to draw with ease too! I can draw quickly, but that's if it's a random pose.. I'm lame, and some days I'll just draw a head, and then hopefully a cool pose will come from that. I can never do it the other way, think of a pose, then get it right. I can, yeah, like that painting I showed you, it was almost entirely the intended image I had, but that picture took me quite some time to put down since I had wanted to draw a cuteish style, yet not stereotypical.. thus I eneded up emulating another, close style to the one I'm developing by another artist on dA P:

Molecular structure; Not my cup of tea, but that's interesting! Lots of people can agree with you on Ancient Egypt being inspiring. I find it great too, though I always fall more in love with the more vibrant culture of theirs - although the two are sometimes similar with their buildings, interest in jewellery and riches, rituals and beliefs, it's just how rich and mysterious the Aztec life was in the jungles. They had some fantastic artwork and costumes too, I feel really connected with it!
Hehe, LooSee. Is it a fact in the IZ universe that the Tallest get their thumbs cut off as leadership initiation or is this part of your own AU? I felt like I've heard of this before.. but nevertheless, I love it! Great explanation!

Whatever you please, I don't mind it either way You'll have to organise it though, I'm an "ENFP", save my confusion

👍: 0 ⏩: 2

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-22 01:51:38 +0000 UTC]

[part 2]

Yeah, that's exactly what I mean. I often just make a new layer (mode > color, low opacity) and use the color-picker and paint brush to pick up hues from parts of the image and put them on other parts. If you look carefully, you can see it on this one: [link] He's got green on his tunic, blue on his skin, red on everything, etc. Before I did that it looked really disconnected. Another method I plan on trying is to simply fill a top layer with one color and give it the same properties as before. That way everything is basically tinted with one hue, bringing it together. I did this with red on my desktop background [link] because the greens, blues, and whites all hurt my eyes because they stuck out too much. (I wish I could show before/after images for these, but I recently cleaned all my unneeded files from my computer). I'll hunt down that auto color thing. Hopefully Elements 5 has it. Thanks for the tip!

Oh, I know exactly what you mean! Almost all of my drawings start with just a head, then I'll sort of build a pose around it. If I try to make a pose then draw the head it never seems to work out because I can't get the head right for the pose. >.<*

Yeah, I've been wanting to research Aztec culture and such, but I'm very bad with things like that unless it's specifically in a history class. What I do know is fascinating, but I just don't know much. =/ Do you happen to know a good site that has lots of info and such?

And so far as I know, it's a fact that they have their thumbs cut off, but that might just be someone's interpretation I read online. If not, the Tallest still just have the two fingers, so it works out all the same.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-22 06:21:13 +0000 UTC]

Disconnected, that was the word! Yeah, I do that too! And filling the layer with one colour and changing the Layer style etc was a trick I used too, but mainly it worked for me to tint the image, rather than equalise it.
The Auto Color should be under Image -> Adjustments. I works best once the image is flattened, of course.

Oh well I don't know about them from books or websites, I don't remember that way very well, I rather watch documentaries. I can't find the series I found the most informative, but there are plenty on Youtube if you're interested [link]

Ah! Well when I have time I'll try and find that out then

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-26 06:33:04 +0000 UTC]

Ah, that would be difficult. I have a hard time working on images more once they've been flattened. =/ Oh well. I'll still give it a shot.

I'll watch those videos you linked me to. I love documentaries, almost regardless of what they're about. Thank you. ^^

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-26 10:23:46 +0000 UTC]

Well you flatten the picture and adjust the colours after it's all done don't you?

Me too! It's barely the only thing I turn to when I turn the TV on!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-22 01:48:26 +0000 UTC]

[part 1]

GRAH!!! While I was typing my reply I accidentally clicked a link and lost all my progress. >.<* Oh well. I'll start over.

I only really study the work of cartoonists I happen upon, such as from comics people tell me I should read. I wish I knew a way to look at a whole bunch of comic styles without much hassle. Learning terminology relating to styles might be helpful as well, since it points out concepts I wouldn't have otherwise noticed.

Yeah, I've heard of/tried that upside-down-reference-image technique in a few of my art classes. It never seemed to do me any good. Grids, on the other hand, always got a good result, but that doesn't exactly help me in drawing something from my brain. lol.

I personally think that it takes a totally different kind of patience to spend lots of time to do something right than it does to spend lots of time starting something over and over. I often don't mind taking a few hours to get from Point A to Point B as long as I don't have to keep returning to Point A. Having to try something over and over just makes me feel like I'm making virtually no progress for all the effort I'm putting into it.

On my other account I have a folder in my favs labeled "Useful to Drawing" where I would keep handy tutorials, interesting styles, and images which I could look at to help with specific problems (such as how to draw water/etc). I think everyone should have that kind of collection like we do; it just seems like it will help an artist's progress.

Hm, I've never heard of that comic. *looks it up and reads a few pages* Yeah, that looks like it's about the same level I'm aiming for as well, though a much different style.

And I agree with the idea of studying realism to supplement stylism. If you know what a shape really is as oppose to just knowing what you see in the style, it's easier to draw a representation of it in that style. You learn what lines people pay attention to, what looks natural to the human brain, etc, and once you know all that it's much easier to draw a line or two to represent a complicated shape. To use an idea a friend introduced me to, an image is just a symbol. Take a face for example. In a lot of styles, you can draw a circle with a dot in it and that is the symbol of an eye. It's read like an eye, but it's still just a circle and dot. A nose is two lines coming together at an angle. Hair is a series of curved triangles. Blushing is just hatches across the cheeks/nose. And so forth. By studying realism, you'll get to know reality, not just symbols, and knowing that reality will allow you to make more effective symbols.

Anime (among other styles) is often used by people so that they don't have to deal with realism (a choice that's often subconscious). Learning a set of symbols someone has already created (ie: a style) is much easier than learning reality and simplifying it into symbols. However, if you don't understand the realism the symbols came from, you can't use them as effectively. But if you only study reality and not symbols, I would say developing a style is much more difficult. So I say to create one's own style they must study realism and also other styles; everything from naturalism to stick-figures. See what works, what doesn't, and what looks good to you. That, I think, is the best way to make a style. In theory, anyway. lol.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-22 03:02:51 +0000 UTC]

I hate that! That's happened to be so many times! Very frustrating, and I never feel my message was as good as the last!

Maybe visiting comic-upload sites like Comic Genesis/DrunkDuck/Webcomics Nation? If you look through, you may see some interesting styles, see how they make what they do, you know? Even if they are not so great or the genre doesn't interest you, it's probably not that bad to look. Maybe pick out their mistakes, so you can be sure to avoid them yourself. Observe, observe, I say! I look at a lot of successful artist's pieces to see how they accomplish certain looks, and that I say is part of my road to improvement!

Oh that's a shame. What about drawing the "negative space"? I know none of this helps for when you're drawing from your head, but if you learn to draw something over and over again, from your successful previous attempts with those "Training wheels" you had from upside-down/negative-space/gridding techniques, you should be able to go freely on your own Bicycle of Art (dorky metaphor I know )

Oh you know, actually, I don't restart from the start very often, I just work and reshape what I've got until it's right.. Starting from the start would make me lose the flavour in finishing the piece. Do you feel you have to start from the start a lot?

Yeah! I actually have different folders for each - Tutorials, Styles, Inspirational Images and Colouring Technique. I have been recommending making collections like these to a handful of people now, so ought to automatically prove I agree with your point! Everyone who runs out of ideas a lot, or doesn't know where to start, should keep a collection to look at.

That's right. It's quite clean, simple, they have many fans who are able to emulate it quite well themselves, proving a easy, unique and aesthetic style. And one thing that strikes me - all the characters look like they're a uniform style, even if some look completely different. I found drawing one character, then a second, and then the second just wouldn't fit in with the first. Ugh!

Symbols.. that's going to difficult to create on my own, I haven't been good with expressions either. I'll look for those then, see how I can use them.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

InvaderMax In reply to enigmatia [2010-12-26 06:30:12 +0000 UTC]

Thanks for the suggestions. I've added the sites to my bookmarks and shall look through the comics. This is exactly what I've been needing!

lol I love dorky metaphors. I understand what you're saying, though. It makes good sense, and I'll have to try it out...

I start individual parts from the beginning all the time, and sometimes I'll just restart an entire image. I prefer to sketch on the computer so that I don't have to get rid of previous attempts, but when I'm out and about I only have the paper to use, and it's not like it makes much of a difference anyway. =/

Yeah, I know what you mean about the characters not looking like they're in the same style. >.<* It drives me crazy. Luckily it doesn't happen all that often since I can use one base for a number of people fairly well, but I still know the feeling. I'm more prone to get the opposite effect: Where you can't get the characters to look unique enough and they end up seeming the same. Lately I've been working on character developments involving about five or six individuals who are all basically the same person, so it's been fun to try to make them look as different as possible, but still clearly be the same individual under it all. It's been working surprisingly well.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

enigmatia In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-26 11:43:39 +0000 UTC]

Not a problem! And it could mean that you can submit your comic in two places now, meaning more chances of gathering public interest.

Alrighty then! All that was gathered from personal experience, always trying out new stuff.

Ahh, understandable With the computer sketching on the computer I find it real convenient to cut out like, a limb or something and rearrange it to make it look good if I'm lazy and having a hard time figuring it out!

Aw, you know what you should try! The Character Variety Meme! I saw it done recently and it targets different parts of a character and even thinks to consider their silhouettes:
[link] There is the great example I saw recently, and great comic artist too!
That's wonderful to hear satisfaction in your progression, I think you ought to test your successes!

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

InvaderMax In reply to Tulpen-Teufel [2010-12-13 23:04:05 +0000 UTC]

Hehe. Thank you. I'd like to do a series of minor characters. It think it'd be interesting and a little more unique than what I've done thus far.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

Tulpen-Teufel In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-14 05:43:23 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, why not?

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

InvaderMax In reply to bleed-the-wall [2010-12-11 01:07:49 +0000 UTC]

👍: 0 ⏩: 0

InvaderMax In reply to MyHysteria [2010-12-11 01:00:00 +0000 UTC]

Thank you!

I go through phases of wanting to draw stuff that's kind of unpleasant to look at. Like stuff that's creepy looking, or something that has a nails-on-chalkboard kind of message. Needless to say, I was in that kind of mood when I thought of this, and I immediately dropped what I was doing to start working on it. It was just too perfect.

👍: 0 ⏩: 1

MyHysteria In reply to InvaderMax [2010-12-11 01:12:37 +0000 UTC]

your welcome!

I get those phases too. Sometimes I just wanna draw something really creepy, sometimes I wanna draw something sad and melancholy.

👍: 0 ⏩: 0