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Kitsoru-san In reply to ??? [2012-08-14 17:35:04 +0000 UTC]

If you hadn't noticed by now from tumblr etc, I'm a pretty bitter, jaded GG fan LOL

It's really a business matter at this point, you have to think about that perspective. I'm honestly wondering what the hell they bothered getting the rights back for if all they're going to hash out is rebalances of XX (it's always good and well to retain your rights to your IP but imagine the money they must have spent fighting a company like Sega- is it worth it for a small company like ArcSys, if you're not even going to continue the series in seriousness? I want to say yes, but I haven't seen anything to indicate that's the answer yet.. And it's been 5 years.)

It sounds like they were starting to lose money on Guilty Gear, and that was why it's been shelved. Overture certainly lost them money. Daisuke isn't directing the rebalance games for sure and from what I can tell, doesn't have any hand in the series currently- THAT scares me. When a creator no longer has control of his project. And everything I've heard indicates that while the Japanese arcade fandom is still somewhat there, they've lost a lot of people to other games (BB, SF4, etc- there's only so many games you can practice enough to keep up your game at, at a time). They do need to find a way to re-energize the Japanese core fandom, I think, because I'm sure they don't get enough money from the rest of us, and well you need money to make games... Blazblue makes shitloads of money.

It actually all ties in to the discussion that's been happening in anime for a good 10 years or so now of trends in what's being made, so there's not much I can add there that hasn't been said already. It just makes me sad. :c

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-14 18:10:26 +0000 UTC]

My guess is that they are re-hashing the rebalances to test the waters. If people want more Guilty Gear and can prove it with their wallets here then we will get a new Guilty Gear sooner than later. That or they are using the re-balances to attempt to make it more known in the market again. It sort of sucks for Guilty Gear fans because if Blazblue failed miserably monetarily then this subject would be flipped around and we would have a new GG already and Blazblue would be on life support. The thing is, people like Blazblue and Blazblue brings Arc money so of course it will get more and more installments. It's rather depressing especially if you solely look forward to Guilty Gear. As for me, I eagerly await the new Blazblue and whatever Ishiwatari's next project happens to be whether it is Guilty Gear, Hard Corps or something completely new. So for me, the wait is a bit more bearable and I can't imagine how rough it must be for you.

On a side note, I thought I read in an interview somewhere that Ishiwatari was directing a game which was never named. But sadly, that the interview came out months ago and nothing was mentioned after that so maybe things changed.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-15 04:32:37 +0000 UTC]

Hah, I suppose that's true... Heck, if Blazblue had failed it probably would be cut-off, period, because Guilty Gear is the veteran series and BB was the new one. I think Blazblue was sort of specifically designed to be marketable outside just the FGC, though, so I don't think it could possibly have failed tbh.

I hope the PSN and XBL release of AC+R will re-energize the Western fandom, because it kinda died due to having no new content for so long- certainly it was kind of a mix of things, but I think part of the blame does fall on ArcSys for letting it dwindle and die out by not releasing anything new or even attempting to excite the fandom with teasers- and who knows if they can get back the energy it had back in the heyday (03-07ish).

I'm still really bitter Blazblue got all the promotion, merch and attention Guilty Gear never did (and imo deserved once it 'made it'). BB made its way on training wheels as far as I'm concerned, and Guilty Gear fought its way to its popularity and reputation on its own- hell GG made Arc System Works. What other franchises worth jack did they have before GG? Battletoads?

It's weird, yeah, because I remember him saying that too- and now for like a year or something we've had utter silence from him. No work in anything else that I know of aside from a scarce few illustrations for AC+R and BB (maybe more music on new BB? I have no idea if he's still doing the music there even), so it's kind of worrying :[ Ah well... maybe his answer was just Japanese business-wise deflection on that question, or maybe he'll pop up with something magical suddenly sometime next year. Who knows, at this point. @_@

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-15 22:38:54 +0000 UTC]

Well if anything. Blazblue gave Arc a chance to experiment where they couldn't with Guilty Gear. With an established series like Guilty Gear it is hard to do new things (I think Isuka and Overture prove this point perfectly). Marketing is a somewhat difficult thing. Blazblue has a sort of playful yet serious tone so they were able to pull off gag reels, online video shows and they were able to get away with both serious and playful merchandise that Guilty Gear would have had a harder time selling, I think. Like what could they do with Guilty Gear to advertise it better? I have a hard time thinking about things that wouldn't mis-sell the product. I mean Guilty Gear is so out there (which is why we love it) but how do you sell something like that? With Blazblue and it's anime tropes it has a wealth of things to pull from to sell (which is by no means a bad thing) but with Guilty Gear it is a bit trickier...

To be honest I am not sure how well Guilty Gear could survive in this day and age in its current state. Part of Blazblue's success lies in it's online capabilities. While AC+R has online, we still don't know whether it's any good and I fear the systems may be to "nit-picky" for online today. Some things are so frame perfect or have to be pulled off in such a small window and if you can't pull some of that stuff in an online environment due to lag and stuff that would really hurt the game at a higher level, I think (unless they changed things like that, I haven't read a lot of news haha).

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-15 23:27:13 +0000 UTC]

I don't think GG's fandom is TOO different in demands, though. Maybe not all the gag reel and radio show stuff, or body pillows and pinup phonecards, that kind of otaku shit (save that for Queen's Blade, lol). But they've in the past released shirts, figures, plush, shotglasses, CD's, keychains.... and they do seem to sell (they must, I've never managed to find many of my wanted items for sale!), but were never really offered directly the way BB stuff has, it's mostly licensed stuff that's much harder to get because you have to go to a hobbyshop in Japan or hope it gets imported because the distribution isn't direct. There's always been the Comiket exclusive stuff ArcSys offers directly but that's only if you can get there and it's uber rare. I remembered looking on ArcSys's website and never finding much other than the games and CD's for sale for GG. Go on there now and it's chock full of BB merch of every kind- same with the Aksys website, for US customers. Compare that with maybe 1 GG shirt (which sold out right quick) that they had on Aksys' site a little after AC+ was released, along with that limited merch package they had- which also sold out very fast. Hell, Aksys deleted the official site for Guilty Gear- their link to it from their website? Dead. It's as if they're trying to pretend it doesn't exist anymore...

Lag- while horrific when experienced in GG in comparison to other games- is an ever-present part of gaming anywhere though; play Guilty Gear at a convention tournament and you have to deal with laggy LCD TV's, laggy projection screens... And most of the tournament scene in the US at least, unsure of elsewhere- is at conventions. I feel like because GG was always geared towards such a high level of play and because of those conditions, high level players already know how to adjust to lag so most of the time they won't have as much of a problem. As far as HOW bad it lags is more of a question, I think, because it's definitely true that a certain amount and it's impossible to play at a high level. And as for lower level players trying to online play with the lag, I feel like many of those players aren't a high enough level that it's.. going to matter? And there's going to be scrubs everywhere in online play, and that's fine I think, because any game is like that whether online or irl and no matter the game. I don't think that's going to necessarily factor in to the reception of the online play for anything but the highest level players basically- unless the lag is that bad. And I think they know how to adjust for it. But that remains to be seen when it gets released, I guess...

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-16 02:45:27 +0000 UTC]

You have to admit though, the otaku shit and radio show not only sells but is also an effective way to expose people to Blazblue. Guilty Gear needs some sort of method similar to that that. Word of mouth, a commercial or two and a couple t-shirts is not enough to publicize a game in this time and age.

I think you may be getting the publishers mixed up. Zen United has a bunch of Blazblue stuff at their store and sell some Guilty Gear stuff (like the artbook, t-shirts and prints). But then again I haven't looked at the Aksys shop in a while so maybe I'm a bit outdated in that department. Both Arksys and Zen United support the Arc Sys scene pretty well I think. As for the GG site being shut down, I think it is not as cut and dry as you think. It takes money to run and maintain a website. Perhaps the traffic generated from the site wasn't enough to justify keeping it around. It sucks that it is no longer around but from a business standpoint newer and hotter things will get advertised more and priorities have to be set especially for a really small publisher. Doesn't excuse the dead link but maybe that's just a big oversight. Have you tried emailing them or anything?

Sure, maybe lag can be dealt with by some players but it is still a problem and shouldn't just be pushed aside because it only effects some players, especially when it is the higher level players that will keep the game alive after everyone has left. If online becomes a ghost town after a short period of time then that will hurt the scene and it will be harder to bring in newer players and we'll be back at square one. However this is all hypothetical stuff so maybe it may all be fine and there is always local multiplayer and stuff.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-16 03:13:31 +0000 UTC]

I think so too, but like you said GG's fandom is a different beast. The otaku-based direction that Japanese pop culture industries have gone in aren't really suited to it; it's still rooted in the grittier culture of the late 90's/early 2000's.

Nope, it's Aksys I'm talking about: [link] And since they're the official licenser of GG and BB in the US, that's who I focus on as to that stuff apart from ArcSys' JP store (which I could buy from with a shopping service, as I do for lolita stuff). Of course it takes money to run a website, I never said it didn't and I'm fully aware of what running a website entails; but when a game is not even 3 years old by this point and you're already showing that you as the distributor consider it dead and buried (and I'm talking this site has been doing for like a year already), it's rather premature and I wonder how ArcSys feels about- it's like outright showing you no longer consider a game support, like when MMO's are cut off. It's not just a dead link, because I had the page bookmarked and it's fully dead.

It shouldn't be pushed aside, I just said that the issues aren't really new ones and that lag will be dealt with the same way lag has always been dealt with- adjust for it until it's fixed. I seriously doubt that ArcSys wouldn't try to fix it if issues actually arose; why would they bother putting online multiplayer R out at all if players deem it unplayable? The outside-Japan market for these games might be smaller than the in-Japan arcade markets, but they still know they make money from the console sales, or they wouldn't be bothering at all. No one plays FG's on console in Japan.

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-16 03:56:19 +0000 UTC]

I'm sorry, I must be misinterpreting some of your comments. Hopefully I am not bringing you down or annoying you and I am pretty bad at talking about this stuff, hehe...

Anyway, it's sort of tough to figure out an effective way to market it, but it is definitely possible. I am sure Arc would find a way to market it as I am pretty sure they would want Guilty Gear to succeed when they do revive it. It would be a waste of time and energy to do anything otherwise.

If anything, Zen United has some GG stuff and they update their facebook, twiters, youtube and deviantart accounts with Blazblue and Guilty Gear things. It is the European distributor but they support tournaments and hold many contests whether that means anything. To them Guilty Gear is not dead but then again Accent Core came out recently for them, haha.

I am just saying that there could possibly be more to it Aksys them cutting off support. The only way to know for sure what is up would be to be within Aksys. Maybe they are cutting off support for it but usually things are not that black and white. Occam's Razor would say that you are right though but I am merely trying to think about other possibilities and different angles. I go Zen United for my Guilty Gear stuff so I don't know much about what goes on at Aksys, so how else have they made it seem dead to them other than taking down the website? And as for the dead link part, I was just questioning why they even had a link leading to a page they cut... or maybe they didn't and I once again misinterpreted.

About the online, last I remember though #reload's online wasn't too bad and that was a long time ago and I am sure they are better prepared for that and the technology is much better so I can't imagine AC+R's being too awful.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-16 06:47:07 +0000 UTC]

Haha, no I like talking about this shit! It's hard to get a good fandom conversation like this anymore, people tend to either get bored about it or mega butthurt and darnit I just want to have a good economics/marketing and sociological fandom discussion sometimes, LOL.

I think I have peeked in at Zen United's stuff before, actually, now that you mentioned them- but I was never sure if they were official or some kind of shady unofficial/knockoff seller because I'd never heard of them before. Now that you mention they're the European distributor it makes a lot more sense- and that even kinda makes me a little sad D: At least Europe still seems to care about GG, haha. And yes, that's very true, since they got the late AC+ release...

I'm wondering if it's something on Aksys' side or if maybe it's something with Arc System works- I don't know how Aksys' license with them works, like if they have to somehow... renew it every time a new GG game comes out, or what. I really wouldn't blame ArcSys with being careful about how they handle distributors after what happened with Sammy-SEGA. Man, that's sure a good question (why they have a link to nowhere still), I brought it up a few times but no one seems to know. Which is odd because I know Aksys reps browse dustloop.

That's exactly what I was thinking, about when #Reload came out. I have my fingers crossed, but I think until the problems arise visibly we can probably rest assured that they will know full well that lag would be a concern and so they'll do the best they can to make sure it doesn't happen.

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-16 11:16:51 +0000 UTC]

I'm glad I am not bringing you down!

Zen United is very awesome and they connect very well with their costumers (at least that is what I have experienced thus far). While there is mostly Blazblue stuff in their store they have a few Guilty Gear things and I am sure they would hear out any questions. They make some of their own designs on t-shirts for the most part but sometimes they also import things from Arc's shop. Of course, them still being the European distributor we would still have to pay shipping and stuff but they have some nice stuff and I sort of wish Aksys took advantage of the license like they are (or maybe they did, I was away from the GG scene around AC+ time so maybe I missed it, Nooooooooo) As a side note, I will say that ZenUnited sharing some images of the Japanese exclusive stuff and new artwork never fails to make me droll haha.

That licensing stuff is very interesting and it seems like a possibility. I can't help but imagine there having to have been some sort of contract and then fees of course. I guess I could continue pretending to know about this but I really know nothing about this, haha. Everything that happens before me getting the game is a complete mystery lol. Having the dead link up is so sloppy though, and I think I do remember you bringing it up before (on Dustloop), so I suppose you did try.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-16 18:31:51 +0000 UTC]

See that's exactly the thing, Aksys put out a couple of things but then they just kinda... gave up. They have all these plushies and shirts and all sorts of junk for Blazblue that isn't getting sold out nearly as quickly and they keep pushing more and more of it yet GG stuff that sells out instantly apparently isn't good enough for them to make more. :/ I too wish Aksys would take notes from them, and if I wasn't worried about dealing with import tax/shipping from Europe I'd just buy from them. Heck I'd take that Feeling Guilty shirt in a heartbeat but just a tshirt isn't worth the shipping it'd come out to.. sigh.

Yeah, I'm mostly guessing here but what we learned from the licensing fiasco is that they WERE being very lax before, and now they're... not. Where GG, both the game and merch has traditionally been licensed out, BB (in Japan at least) and lots of BB's merch seems to be proprietary from what I can tell; that should tell you something right there. I wonder if they're waiting for any of the old licenses on GG to wear out so they can bring it back to being fully proprietary (like merch licenses)? That would explain them sitting on it for a while though I still think that's a shame and a wasted opportunity as fans wander away.

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-17 00:39:59 +0000 UTC]

I would like to think they stock BB and GG things differently (As in they purposefully understock GG because the likelihood of it not getting bought is more real than BB). I don't think ZenUnited has very much trouble moving BB stuff. I have yet to see GG stuff sell instantly there. Their limited Edition stuff is still sitting around (They only had 50 copies of the Aba print made and they still haven't sold them all and they sold them with the LE and separately). But maybe it's different over in Europe. If I had the money to spare right now I would buy stuff from Zen's store mostly because they have GG stuff. If the GG stuff sold really well over there then maybe GG wouldn't seem like a risky investment to other distributors and more people would be willing to try to stock it.

Letting the old licenses die would seem like the safest thing to do. But it is sort of sad to see GG fans leave in the meantime. The fandom is so small and it is so sad to see it get even smaller.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-17 07:18:26 +0000 UTC]

Really, they still have the ABA prints?? Damn. I could have sworn I had heard about it selling out quickly... Did Aksys ever have stock of it to sell at some point? Maybe I'm recalling that. I see they still have the memorial artbook as well.. I might just pick it up from them at some point, lol. Granted the other GG stuff I see is 'art cards' and honestly, that isn't really the type of stuff that sells imo... People want either tangible STUFF merch like figures/plush or tshirts- it's a damn shame the artbooks/prints and such are selling poorly though. I'd buy 'em if I had money as well :[ I wonder if others in the US are similarly discouraged to import from them due to the exchange rate/shipping, and at the same time Aksys has nothing to offer, so we're stuck in a limbo here.

That's my everlasting lament. While I understand why they're doing it in some respects, it just feels like they're letting the fandom, and the games, die.

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-18 00:16:52 +0000 UTC]

I think the Aba print was exclusive to the European LE. The thing about art cards and prints is that they are cheap, so if they sit around in the storeroom it isn't so bad. With things like figures though especially the more expensive ones, they only appeal to the most hardcore of fans with money to spend. So there is more risk stocking those types of things since they might sit around and if you do happen to overstock and they don't sell then the company will lose big amounts of money. I see that ZenUnited is selling the Rachel figure though so maybe they may attempt something similar with GG if it can hit its stride again.

For me the prices are a big setback. I cannot convince myself to spend 26.70+shipping(I think it is not included...) for one shirt especially when I have other things I need to spend the money on. But maybe later, we'll see since I really like Zen United. Still wish there were other options though.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-18 01:58:13 +0000 UTC]

Ohhh, was it? hmm. Still a shame though, I'd buy it. I wonder if it has to do with ABA's popularity- maybe if it'd been a Sol/Ky/Dizzy print it'd have sold better... Somehow though I always feel like figures sell a lot better because they're tangible 3D things that you can't just have the scans of and be happy with that. I saw the Rachel figure, and from what I know similar figures for GG have sold well (like the I-No and Bridget statuettes that came out a bit ago, and the Queen's Blade Dizzy one), so...

Definitely, yeah. I've actually really cut back on spending on anything but clothing lately (or been trying to but I just bought 2 secondhand GG figs so LOL but they were only $4 each). Mostly my lolita clothing, which is pricey as fuck in itself so. I've kinda wanted to start leaving cosplay as well since it's so pricey and at least with lolita I wear it every day instead of wearing once or twice then storing it. But yeah, I'm in the same boat about importing merch these days. The economy, I'm sure, is definitely not helping move ANY merch these days, especially with the super inflated yen exchange.

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lightning-seal In reply to Kitsoru-san [2012-08-19 01:51:51 +0000 UTC]

Hmmm, I never thought about Aba's popularity hurting it and now that I think about it that definitely could have been a factor because while she is cool she isn't as iconic to GG as Ky, Sol or Dizzy (or even Bridget and I-no). I am going to take a shot in the dark here since I am not really sure how this stuff works but I would imagine that with figures, they are only produced in limited quantities and to restock on more costs a lot of money which is why they sell out. With prints I would think that they don't sell out as often because you can always stock more for cheap which makes is seem like they don't sell (unless of course they are a limited run).

Yep, those prices are killer on my wallet and if I buy merch and stuff I have to cut back on other stuff which is no fun. That and I have huge problems spending money on luxuries for myself, I get instant buyer's remorse every single time even when buying games which only adds to my cautiousness about buying merch even though I tell myself it is one way to support companies I like.

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Kitsoru-san In reply to lightning-seal [2012-08-19 03:00:00 +0000 UTC]

Yeah, like if that had been a Sol or Ky print I probably would already have bought it XD But since it's ABA, I'm not too keen... Most people probably won't buy a really nice quality, expensive print if the subject matter isn't interesting to them, no matter how gorgeous it is. And that definitely makes sense about figures, most of them don't have many runs at all from what I know, though the gacha sets seem to have more runs than the nicer figures or statuettes..

I have major buyer's remorse over figurines haha, because once the gratification of having it wears off it has no purpose other than to collect dust XD; That's why I stopped buying Gundam models, too. I still buy art prints but mostly because I buy AA prints and that money goes directly to the face I buy it from, and of course because the feeling of artist camaraderie But I can't buy much merch anymore unless it's actually functional, like clothes.

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