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Menaria — Strict Soldier's guide for MvM: Demoman (part 2)
Published: 2013-08-15 18:29:07 +0000 UTC; Views: 18293; Favourites: 88; Downloads: 51
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Big thanks to for helping me with Demoman's dialogue <3Also big thanks to and 's BF for correcting my grammar x]
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Comments: 78
succesful play of Demoknight needs team communication to work.
Also you can have a Deomknight as well as a Demoman in your team.
And i only said that Demoknight is something that CAN work, but you shouldn´t do it with random teammates.
The way i play Demoknight is by using unupgraded stock loadout in the first wave and switching to Demoknight at the second wave, depending if i think it´ll work.
This way, i can judge if a Demoknight is useful to the team and if not, im upgrading my sticky launcher.
Demoknight is okay on lower difficulties, but on high difficulty you should only do it with friends.
Also tell me if my comments are annoying or you think this is an interesting discussion, i cant judge that by myself very well
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If I wouldn't like somebody commenting my stuff, i'd simply turn this option off.
Also:
Agree: Demoman is for lulz on lower difficulties, but it's an instakick on Mann up Advanced and above.
But the point is: People should learn things that are effective enough on the map. Not take things like demoknight "because they would work eventually somewhere sometime".
Let's get 'em used to the basics and when they'll learn their place on the battlefield, then they can go derp with their friends on their own cost.
Most of Mann up players don't want to waste time by somebody's experiments, like "let's see if it will work"
And I personally don't want to meet a person that takes a Demoman and says: "I used to run around as Demoknight for most of the time, so I might not do the best with stickies".
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I agree completely with your point.
My only problem are people who say that some loadouts are absolutely completely useless without going in depth over its capabilities and the Demoknight sure has some, im just trying to point them out.
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Sure a good demoknight may be good? but so is the combat medic? so you want me to go übersaw and syringegun because I do lots of dmg, got a fast reload, and I can heal myself on kills? also each kill gives me some medi-gun charge that I can pop after I swalloed a crit rocket to the face and just run off like a chicken without a head? and you know that if you fight against a giant heavy he will push you back? and the crit rockets will kill you before you have a chance to heal even with mighty damage and milk? and what if the scout forgets to milk the target or dies? then you can't charge before you got someone else to cover your back?
Tanks;
Wont be a problem if you have a pyro that knows just about a tiny bit what to do and understands the line "ATTACK THE TANK!!!"
Uber-medics;
Also if you fail on just 1 medic as a demoknight or dont take them out fast enough, then they will uber from the random damage they take from your teammates stray bullets/rockets and make the giant able to advance further into your defences and screw your team over...
But! There is ONE thing you're right about, and that is I dont care about what you're saying since you're only a bootcamp player. Those who play bootcamp are just fucking around for fun or just trolling other players. which makes it a waste of time unless you go 6 premade to test something new.
Before I make this comic into a fight club with you I want to point out something the artist said herself, And that is the comic is just ment for noobs to lern whats prefered by a majority of players over the internet to give them a headstart in the Mann up MvM.
So in case you want to prove me wrong so badly, feel free to add me over steam to show me your "super duper awesome medieval sword skills" in a Mann up! I know? since you're that good why dont we go Expert and tell the 4 other players that you're a awesome demoKNIGHT and see how fast they will votekick you? maybe it will break a record!
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boot camp means noob? Like f2p means noob? srsly?
I dont want to change the comic into a battlefield but discuss things.
Also there are some points which i have to comment
Battle medic: its shitty and i tried. Even on lower difficulties. (you cant upgrade reload speed) but you actually supposed to go for ubersaw hits on single robots.
Heavy Pushback: if he fires at you before you´re in meele range, you´re doing it wrong. IF you are in meele range you can counter by pressing w
Uber medics: Only go Demonight if you have SOMEONE ELSE kill the medics. you can kill medics they miss though.
Tanks: Yes a pyro can, but the Demoknight can too.
crit rockets: if there are crits in the wave, you must have crit resistance, paired with the shield thats enough to keep you alive for the first kill.
no milk: as a Demoknight you are able to go for a little robot first and then take on giants, the milk is more of a help, its not as essential as it may sound.
Votekick: that´s exactly the problem. That nobody is ever willing to try something new. Demoknight could proof himself useful, if we really think about how we can use him.
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Reposting message, for some reason it was sent to the middle of the chat. My bad:
you kidding me? Im just saying that those who only play on bootcamp arent skilled enough or intelligent enough to go Mann up. and sure F2p means noob... NO! games can be F2p, that dosent make you a noob, how the hell can you even compare those 2? - And the fact you even consider talking about combat medic is just horrifying! It was ment as a joke to insult your demoknight plan, but since you have tried it I fear for your feature. - sure... the heavy deflector knockback is nothing to fear... because you can walk forward! genious! thats the whole plan about it... the deflector is useing rage 24/7 so you're not even ment to be able to get close to it! - about having someone else to kill the medics is just a waste of team effort. the demo's job is to kill the medics, why get another wasted slot for it? - tanks, yea, but why waste yet another space on your team or another members focus? you might get overrun by robots if someone gets unlucky? - maybe its enough to keep you alive for first rocket, but 2x rockets = dead, and if you dont get the killing blow you wont get the HP... so thats another bad point on being a demoknight... prove himself useful? ive seen enough knights to know they are a waste of time. but im still offering you a chance to "redeem" the demoknights and play elite mann up with me.
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f2p and boot camp have one thing in common. essentially it means that someone doesn´t want to buy something. f2p players don´t want to buy the game and boot camp players dont want to buy tickets.
like i said, you have resistance (shield) against rockets and also crit resistance (upgrade) so you won´t die to two rockets.
the talk about combat medic was a little experiment of mine to see if thy can work on the LOWEST DIFFICULTY, like if its even worth to fool around with. i wasn´t kidding about the ubersaw thing though, thats actually something a medic should do.
you should charge at a heavy while he´s not shooting at you, like a scout marking him when he´s not shooting at him, so you definetly are able to get close enough.
About "having seen enough knights" i have seen enough snipers, spies, pyros, medics and scouts doing way worse than the demoknights i´ve seen, but i know that they are essential to a team.
does it only seem to me like it or do you get really upset about my comments? cause you seem kinda aggresive.
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Bootcamp and F2P means you arent willing to spend money on the game. and in some cases (like TF2) it means you wont get serious in the game and therefor you will be called a noob and not taken serious. Im sure many will agree with me, but surely also quite a few who will agree with you.
The diffrence between scout and demo is scout have a constant movement speed increasement which demo dont have, so it can somewhat dodge bullet/rockets and the scount only have to be there for a short time to mark the giants with the Fan.
sure you get a little bit of ressitance in the beginning which gives you survival, but im still having a hard time to belive the knight will be able to survive from the scout,spy,soldier or whatever spam that might come.
And of course we expect the demo to do the demo's job? thats why we got him! 
The wonderful thing about TF2 is you dont have to buy much, as long as you get a premium account, then you can trade things and EARN money on it like I do. But that takes a little while before you get used to it.
I dont care about medic, its only good in 1 map on Elite, and those servers are so laggy since we got mecha that its too hard for people to use medic correctly.
There will always be one whos worse or better than you. so ofc you can see noob players.
Yes im upset about your comments since you're not agreeing with me, thats the nature of man. But also because you have what I would call stupid opnions and thoughts about the game. But im also a too serious gamer, so that might be the diffrence.
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about how hard it is to believe that the demoknight is able to survive spam i can only say, i already did.
The Demoknight is also only needs to get close to the giant since then he is in meele range and with mad milk thats enough to keep him alive. he basically restores his full health every hit.
I cannot give you a perfect team with Demoknight, because i lack the experience of playing in the hardest difficulty with anything else than sniper. But i would have 1 sniper 1 engie 1 soldier 1 scout 1 heavy, but only on bigrock and possibly manworks, on other maps i wouldn´t play Demoknight and have a pyro instead.
Though i haven´t seen a good pyro yet. it´s like 3..2..1 PYRO IS DEAD.
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And thats pretty much my opnion about the knights... 2...1.... dead.
You just said yourself you lack experiance on expert? so what gives you the right to tell me that im wrong? im the person whos able to play every class in a propper way "besides engi, I just dont like playing engi. Yet I still know what it have to do."
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But im giving it a serious try before telling everyone that its useless without any personal knowledge.
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Oh but I have personal knowlage? Ive seen plenty of fools trying to go hardcore demoknight on the battlefield and failing so hard that it almost made me cry!
After a little while it just makes me sad to see idiots trying to prove the world and facts wrong. And I find it to be funny,
since im not the only one who figured this much. Everyone kicks them after a try or 2.
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spys also get kicked a lot, cause there are guys who think its useless. personal knowledge means trying it yourself, not going: everyone says its bad so its bad.
of course there are guys who screw up all the time, but the thing is, if you never tried it yourself and tried to figure out exactly if you actually can make it work, than you have no right to call it "useless" but rather "not a good choice". and thats a huge difference.
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Good points, but from all my hours in gaming ive only seen 1 good spy! he worked as scout for our team and gave us an A+ on every map but 1! (Mecha mvm)
And I have tried Demoknight twice with a fully premade team... it was horrible and shit, so I quickly changed back after we all agreed that I would do better as any other class.
And yes, most guys who play it will fuck up and ruin ones day, so if you're going to be a knight / spy / medic on my team... you better just stop right away!
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In this case i will accept your better expert experience here.
im still going to try with a group of friends though. But i never intended to enter an expert mode team with a loadout im not completely sure it works.
However spys are just amazing, thats something i know for a fact and i had several times a spy in my team who pretty much "saved the day".
The thing i always tried to go to is rather that a lot of people say that spies/knights/medics/snipers(?) and scouts (what) are useless and if you ask them why they reply that they never have seen one doing good...
If you kick them right away, of course you wont see one doing good. so im glad im discussing with someone who actually tried.
My conclusion about Demoknight is that it works good until some advanced missions (i did already), but on expert maybe possible but highly questionable
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As long as you keep your experiments away from me and then front. I wont mind if you blow up the backyard by lending the pyro your grenade launcher!
But sure, every class can save the day, a spy deals tons of dmg if he makes a good backstap, but the fact is robots have "aim-bot" so they can see if you leave the cloak, and then without thinking about it shoot at you as they keep on walking in a perfect path towards the bomb pit.
I myself play a little sniper here and there and I often save the team by standing on ledges and just dealing 1025dmg every 1,4 sec to about 25 targets pr shot while also slowing them due to the Headshot dmg. (Machina sniper) I even have a few recordings of it on my friends youtube channel and my twitch account.
Spies, Knights, Snipers and Medics are all good classes as long as you keep them on the simple maps, when you reach Expert level you just stick to the outload that works and does a smooth job.
Every now and then I can even accept a spy/sniper/medic on expert, but never a knight or offensive scout, sorry!
I like your conclusion. But I like the fact that you keep your knighting on the "testing" servers even more.
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these classes only work good if your team works with you, so if they dont want you, you wont do good anyway. no sense in trying to force it on a group
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agreed. end of argument
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Good pyros don't go straight into offense. A pyro's true job is resetting the bomb, protecting an engineer's buildings from spy-bots and sentry busters, and taking out tanks (which the whole team should be doing anyway).
Sure, they have an advantage with the steel gauntlets, but in a couple punches, they're dead unless the axtinguisher has health on kill. The first thing I always buy as pyro is Airblast Force and Über Canteens. Having played several tours of Mann Up Mode (and a good amount as pyro), I heartily say that those are the best things in the entirety of MvM that a pyro can get to help out the team the most.
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I know what a good pyro is capable of, and in theory in know how to play him.
I just never had the pleasure to have one in my team.
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A blue soldier giving red guy tips? I just realized that.
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Although a fully upgraded Demoknight is a bloody monster against robots. But hte problem is that the damage isn't immediate, and you can die easily. But a demoknight will wreak havoc on those giant Fist of Steel Heavies.
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On expert the steel fists wont be much of a problem for the 2x heavy team with a sticky demo, and in other difficulties its just a single soldier with a buffbanner + a heavy to take them all down without breaking a sweat. I dont see the point to why everyone want to go melee if they can do a much better job while staying in a safe zone and having a little more time to think about whats going to happen and plan the next attack?
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If only this was so simple in the game aswell.
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