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Omnipotrent — Ironman 3 in a nutshell
Published: 2013-12-19 06:53:41 +0000 UTC; Views: 2126; Favourites: 37; Downloads: 3
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I don't hate the movie, don't get me wrong, I'm just a big fan of the Extremis arch, and Ironman, and Manderine, and knowing that they could've made a a MUCH better and truer to the source material movie that doesn't ruin Manderine, or make Extremis seem just like "Kill it with fire" formula....sort of bothers me.
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For starters MODOK was created by AIM, second he's an Easier character to discredit with "reality", third it's not that hard to find MODOK laughable in any form
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......I honestly hope he never graces the silver screen...unless he's fighting Deadpool or some such where his very existence won't make everything feel like a joke
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The reason they didn't stick to the source material was because the original Mandarin was seen as a racist caricature by the director/co-screenwriter, and is an outdated 1960s reflection of exoticism and the concept of 'the Orient'. Don't get me wrong, I completely understand why the comic book purists were so disappointed by the changes made with Killian being the 'real Mandarin' and what not (arguments have been for that being racist too in terms of cultural appropriation), but it wasn't just an abuse of creative license. It was racial sensitivity on Shane Black's part. I see where both sides are coming from and think they could have made changes to the original Mandarin so he wasn't just an outdated concept that stemmed from 1960s Western ideology. I think they could've modernized him without deviating too far from the original and I think that would've been a much better route to take, to be completely honest with you. That would've required a lot more critical thinking and creativity on their part to figure out exactly how that could be done, as opposed to scrapping him altogether and going with Trevor and Killian instead. It was an interesting idea to use an actor and doctored footage to create their villain but I don't think it was necessary to immediately resort to that and not make an attempt at a more 'modern' Mandarin. I see why he did it but if given the chance I'd ask Shane if he even considered a modern Mandarin and how he would go about creating the character. I would've preferred that to the comical performance on Kingsley's part (even though I did enjoy it). But that's just me. I wouldn't call myself a purist but I'm familiar enough with the original Mandarin to see why people were so very critical of the changes made and would've liked to see something which drew more from that instead.
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TO this I only rebut, that there IS a non-racist, and cool professional version of the Mandarine that they could've easily gone with
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One who would've and did use Extremis to further his power, but his real threat was just being that much smarter then Ironman, and also an idealist from a very young age, as where Tony was distracted and self centered for a very long time now fighting a man who's whole purpose had been gearing towards war so that he could end all war.
Basically the movie missed out on an oppertunity to have their own Ras Al Ghul in the Ironman series and instead brought him to the level of a clown.
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I would've loved to that instead of the direction they took.
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I actually have a "How it whould've been" for Ironman 3 that doesn't deviate to much from the movies direction until you get to the end part, also Killian isn't the manderine in the end.
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Ooh, on here? The hunt begins!
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No, not here forgive me XD
But I can put it up here
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I've also casted the Manderine
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Ooooh, fun fun
Have you posted it? I haven't been on much as of late so if ya did it's collecting dust in my thousands of deviations that piled up in my absence.
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But I completely agree with you about the 'kill it with fire' thing. Over the top, unnecessary. Also, this is hilarious and brilliant
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Thank you very much!
And I do see your point, i just am in the camp of those who feel its no excuse.
Another thing I thought out of place was Pepper Pott's ending of Killian. It was like "You blew me up twice, and took off my arm but i'm fine ....(Witch King voice) "But no lliving man can kill me!..."
Pepper descends:"I AM NO MAN! Also I have a pipe"
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I hate the Pepperony ship in the MCU so the movie as a whole, with her hypercritical and whiny presence permeating throughout it, was only enjoyable when she wasn't there and she ruined the ending for me. And yeah, that was a total deus ex machina as far as she was able to kill him. Unless he faked his dead...DUN DUN DUN!
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Oy oy oy...I know right?
WHo do you prefer Tony with?
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At first I was big into Tony/Loki but now Tony/Steve all the way.
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At the risk of parting ways in the realm of opinions, those are two pairings I just do not abide, they are both nonsensical impractical to me to put it plainly.
Tony and Pepper I like and appreciate in the first one, I even liked Tony and Maya hansen. Even to a degree, if one could go there, Tony Bruce at least is salvageable, but Steve and Tony and particularly Tony Loki appears to be...way to forced, at least from what i've seen let alone in concept.
This is in no offense to you what so ever
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I always agree to disagree with ships. I rarely go with canon and LOVE random Xover pairings. Feelings definitely not hurt; I get reactions like that all the time. I actually like discussing ships I disagree with. I like knowing why people see particular characters as compatible or not...Can you tell I study social sciences and humanities?
Tony and Maya I could see. There aren't many options for Tony in the MCU, the way I see it. Tony/Loki, you can definitely make an argument for that as forced. I think a lot of the appeal is two hot characters together for people geek out over. Rarely are there any Loki redemption fics that stick to character and don't just jump to getting fluffy and physical right away (because, ya know, fluff = redemption...or something). The dark!Loki/Tony fics are interesting even though they do bring in a lot of sexuality, but they aren't always as 'sex dependent' for a 'plot' like some of the fluffier stories. One of the strongest things I've seen in support of Steve/Tony is mention of PTSD, which I've seen some people use as a way that they begin bonding and forming a friendship which eventually becomes something more. Sounds strange as a foundation for a relationship (perhaps even unhealthy), but having four mental illnesses has made it really easy for me to make friends and become close to other people based on that commonality, and those friendships are the strongest ones I have. So maybe I like it because that's something I can personally relate to and see in the pairing, either implicit or explicit in the story and not necessarily inherent to the pairing itself. I find it believable is all.
A good friend of mine thinks that Pepperony is so strong because she acts as that source of balance and stability for him that he couldn't find elsewhere. 1.) I see that in the character/relationship but it comes off more as doting babysitter than nurturer and lover. I think Iron Man 3 is her worst offense; Avengers was kind of cute in the Pepperony department despite the limited time they had on screen, and though I disliked the rushing of it with the kiss at the end of Iron Man 2 I think there was positive noticeable progression for a relationship. 2.) I could see Steve being that for him as well so I don't see why some people act as though that's a Pepper exclusive trait (regardless of which ship is being used/discussed) or omit that from the Stony pairing altogether. Some use it the other way around in the context of Steve adjusting to living in the 21st century AND getting over his shell shock which is, like you said, unrealistic as it turns Tony into a really responsible person...which he's not. Could he be eventually? Perhaps. But right off the bat? No. And could Steve just as easily commit the same offenses I'm critical of Pepper for in the MCU? Sure. I won't deny that. But I think that ship can have substance.
I find the most problematic Stony stories to be ones where they're already together and there's no exploration of how the relationship started, why Tony and Pepper are no longer (or never were) together, their sexuality (when they realized they were attracted to men instead of the 'Tony Stark will screw anyone because he's Tony Stark' cop-out, if they experienced internalized homophobia, coming out, etc), and it's just ASSUMED because OMGSTONY. That I take issue with. FrostIron is pretty much fanservice. There are some really interesting stories that go beyond that, but it's hard to break away from fanservice altogether while still using the ship.
But I also can't stand, despite disliking Pepperony, a breakup between the two that JUST HAD TO BE HER FAULT and immediately demonizes her so he can be with someone else. Like say, Pepper cheats on him. No reason given, nothing other than 'You cheated on me and you're a whore so I'm breaking up with you'. Even if the fic is meant to be from Tony's perspective or just his half of the breakup, no insight into Pepper's thoughts or having her present at some point, there would still be questions and 'Wtf why did this happen?' moments, not 'Omg I'm so sad and heartbroken but oh look there's Steve and he's cute so he can comfort me'. I'll come to her defense there and say that's just an excuse to put the two together (or him with anyone other than Pepper). Destroying one ship to have another happen, without any reason aside from having the ship happen, I can never get behind. Sometimes she really annoys the hell out of me, sometimes she's great as a standalone or with Tony in MCU canon. Pepper always has been and I think always will be a very polarizing character for me.
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Riiiight
Out of all the bromances I've seen, Hulk's and his is the strongest I've seen which is why when I saw the fic's pile up, I was not surprised.
Steve however in terms of being that balance and Babysitter, it's not nearly the same, Steve is not a caretaker nor a guardian, it's fathoms that he even calls Stark a friend. The fact of the matter is, he knows what to expect from Howard Stark, and Tony exceeds those expectations or rather "disappointments" in leaps and bounds, which is why Tony resents Steven because he comes from the same era as his father and has the same (in his mind) condescending Judgmental nature of expecting "Better from him" when they haven't lived his life or know what it's like to be him.
Steven knew an irresponsible Stark but in the age where that level of irresponsibility was as reckless as you got, he was still refined enough to be serious about things and when it came down to it was a real hero. He even was going to allow himself to be blown up in a lab so his workers could get out, THAT was the kind of self sacrifice he said Tony was not capable of.
The very nature of Steven's shell shocked nature of getting used to how the worlds changed is not very much like, but does draw similarities to an old man or a veteran coming home after WII or Vietnam. Readjusting as he goes but unyielding and unchanging.
In all of his relationships honor and virtue are what attracts him the most, more specifically those bread in the world of the military or being a soldier. Agent 11, Black Widow, Peggy Carter, Ms. Marvel or Scarlet Witch even, have those timeless centers that know no century that makes a woman real woman to him; damaged or otherwise, he knows what its like to be them and more importantly they know what its like to be him so they can take every hit that comes with his kind of life and visa versa.
Tony is the 21 Century male equivalent of a party girl and is a culture shock as well of a shell shock in every capacity and to say that he could be how he learns about this new day in age is nothing short of i'm sorry but that same kind of "Steven is hot, and cute, and Tony is Hot and smart they should totally help each other from being from different worlds and time lines and it would be so sexily romantic!"
Bruce showing Steve how this century works or Natasha or even BARTON makes more sense then Tony not only caring but succeeding in Cap letting lose. They're the ones who will always becompatable insofar that they'll never let each other down or doubt their worth as team mates if anything because their friendship has become so deep over time that it's gone beyond seeing eye to eye, which they STILL never have, and its safe to assume they never will.
Tony gets to revere cap in a (not father figure way to the fullest, that ships sailed) but as close as he can get to one with Steven because he's from his dads era and to impress Steve means he's impressing dad, and he loves and absolutely hates that all at once.
Steven sees his friend/acquaintance Howard in Tony, if not a darker shade of Howard he fears could disgrace what was good about his memory of him, so he sees Tony as a window in to the pass or a time before all this, and every so often, meets his old friend again in Tony. All the weariness of his nature is still there, but it is nice to see something that reminds you of the way things were, and when someone like that has your back in the way your best friend did? It makes it easier.
Now as for Pepper being the doting babysitter, YES, that is precisely what he is. Tony is and always will be a child, an extraordinarily genius man-child with spurts of growing up and maturing when you least expect it. Any relationship he's going to have with someone is going to be on the Mary Poppins care taker nature, OR on the "Rogues together" bad girl who gets detention at the same time as you, which is why he has a thing with Maya and it makes sense. They're cut from the same cloth and issues and balance each other out when they need to cause they ironically grow up when the moment calls for it to baby the other....however that makes it allot more risky as neither can be strictly speaking expected to be stable all the time so you could argue that at least with pepper she's solid enough to last the tests of time with tony (I mean we're talking about a woman who has had to wash the clothes of the woman he's shagged for YEARS and still finds a way to love him.)
It is for that reason ^ i find her compatible with Tony as she's one of the few people who CAN be.
Steven can be neither baby sitter or rogues together with Tony, nor can he even be the close friend who becomes something more just because of how in contrast they are to each other, and NOT in the opposites attract way.
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Again, legit critique. Hard to disagree with it. One thing that really stood out to me was when you brought up Steve's compatibility potential with the others...specifically the mention of Clint. I don't know why it's that one in particular I'm getting so intrigued by, but now I'm trying to dissect the potentiality that ship could hold. Thoughts? I don't think I've ever seen it before, so I have no idea how that could/would/should play out.
Also, impressing Steve = impressing dad is a really interesting thought. I'm gonna try and be more mindful of that when taking the anachronism factor into consideration. My first attempt at an MCU fic is Stony and well, it's my first, it's gonna be flawed to hell and back, and I'm going through it bit by bit to find things that need touching up seeing as it's been at least half a year since I started it. That's something I'm definitely gonna look out for more when doing so; when fics make mention of Steve's past and also have him paired with Tony rarely if ever is Howard brought up and that's an offense I definitely committed. When people go strictly off the MCU I think the fact that there's three Iron Man movies and only one Captain America movie (not counting the Avengers of course) might give a stronger feeling of creative license when it comes to using Steve since there isn't as much original material to draw from. And by that I mean Steve's story is harder for people to draw from because of the time jump. Makes him seem more...flexible, if you will, I guess is what I'm getting at? Easy to mold to your own idea of what he should/could/would be like today (aside from what we saw in the Avengers, which didn't really involve a lot of Steve vs. the Modern World). I think once Winter Soldier comes out and we see the established character in the modern age there will be some changes to the relationship dynamic in the Stony pairing. At least I hope so. I'd like to have better idea of what he'd be like post-Avengers aside from my own little Microsoft Word Doc fish-out-water interpretations.
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I guess it's going to come to just opinions and tastes as I am very against Stony in any way shape or form, however it also stems from its nonsensical ness to me, so I doubt there's a fic or ship that would make me like it ever as a person. I just also think that regardless of my bias it works period cause nothing about the two lend themsleves towards compatiblity beyond stary eyed fan service.
And whether your going from the movies or the comics, I'm sorry but Steven Rogers is a rock, always has been always will be, at least according to his cannon core that writers respect. He's not a "Stick in the mud" per say so much as he has to work with getting used to things or adjusting to things in his own timing, BUT never changes. Reasons being, he is a character who is quote unquote "doing it right." And typically its everyone else that is trying to be like him.
Now as for Barton and Rogers, I'm going to say no, and here's where it comes down to it...Rogers is too set in his preference, and Clint, honestly speaking, likes Tuna too much if you get my drift.
They both could be AWESOME Friends, probably greater in bond then Steve could have with Tony, but as a romance I'm saying no.
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Now I'm wondering how much, if any, screen time Clint will have in the Winter Soldier since it's so heavily tied in with S.H.I.E.L.D. and has Steve working with Natasha. I felt like he kinda deserved some more and not just with her.
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It was the best way to introduce him, because now we want MORE of him, and those who care less about him don't think it was over saturated with him. Meaning when we do see him, it'll be ample
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Definitely looking forward to it.
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As am I, I'll be curious how they handle the partner relationship Cap has with Widow
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That's what I'm looking forward to most, the establishment of the relationship dynamic. I'm also hoping they give Natasha some sort of backstory, or more allusions to one (but more substantial than how she used to be Russian, started out at a young age, and knows what it's like to be unmade) since they're going up against someone who was brainwashed and trained by Russians. At the very least an explicit mention of the Red Room/R2 itself, not just how she started out at a young age. I'd settle for that.
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Exactly.
I'm sort of wondering how they'll go about this, cause they're mentioning her relationship with Hawkeye, but i know she also was romantically involved with Winter Soldier....and winter soldier and barton hate each other.
She also gets involved with steve at some point.
Gosh damn she's like James bond
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And Daredevil. And in one universe she's engaged to Tony. And I'm pretty sure she had a thing with Hercules too. I made up a chart connecting everyone together based on their relationships, inspired by The Chart on the L Word (if you've seen it)...and it's a tangled mess. Naturally I started with Natasha because I was able to branch off into Clint and Tony right away XD
As far as the MCU goes I really don't know what to make of those two. Sometimes I see a one-sided unrequited love, sometimes I see a platonic intimacy...I can't tell so the movies will have to tell me.
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Clint and Natasha. I have no clue where the MCU is trying to take them.
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dude, your talking to one of the biggest Iron Man fans. and this. IS FREAKIN SO TRUE, AND FREAKIN HILARIOUSXD
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-high fives-
Then is it not sacrilege to say that the movie ruined Manderine?
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yes. Making him a loud, drunken mess was not the brightest shining moment in their adaption to him.
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Or that they're saying he's a figmentation of Killian's twisted imagination for big bucks
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don't worry, i agree with what you said. i actually tried do read up on the extremis story arc before the movie (dont ask me why i didn't), and i was hoping for a truly epic showdown between iron man and mandarin. PSH! hopefully ben kingsley will do a better representation next time around...
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Except....he ISNT the Manderine DX
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you didn't hear the news? heh, heh, heh, ...
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What? They actually gave in and said that he was pretending NOT to be the Manderine the entire time, so that he could actually be Manderine later on?
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yeah. apparently throughout the movie there were subtle clues (and later confirmed by ben kingsley and crew) that they stole the look from the real mandarin through plastic surgery and what-not. (i must have missed that part. i'll have to rewatch the movie). anyways ben kingsley reported that he was doing a marvel one-shot short film where the real mandarin was pissed off at them stealing his image. at least that's what was reported on comicbookmovies.com.
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Well I hope that's true, that was a disgrace
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so do i. i was plenty pissed off when aldrich killian said he was the mandarin. fuck all that noise.
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