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Omnipotrent — Rwby:Why do you have her eyes? part. 3
#why #cinder #cinderfall #rwby #jaunearc #pyrrhanikos #rwbyfanart #rwbyroosterteeth #rwbyjaunearc #rwbypyrrhanikos #rwbyvolume4 #rwbymaiden #doyouhavehereyes
Published: 2017-06-16 22:46:42 +0000 UTC; Views: 40238; Favourites: 484; Downloads: 97
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Part. 3 of "Why do you have her eyes."To find part 1.
omnipotrent.deviantart.com/art…
Part 2.
omnipotrent.deviantart.com/art…
For those who are caught up, this based on the theory of what has happened to Amber and Pyrrha's Soul post death, given that both were given the maiden power (or in Pyrrha's case, 1/4 of it) before their deaths.
Think about it, Pyrrha's the only person to have died the way she did. Amber was shot, and just died, she didn't dissipate, Pyrrha is the only recorded death on the show where we've seen her light up with the same colour of energy/aura as the maiden power she was radiated with and the only one subjected to mad science to be infused with said power, with unpredictable results...
We know that her voice is in Ruby's dreams, but also cut away from Cinder when we've heard her voice, and now Cinder is acting as if she's horrified at the brutality of her own team mates...
We know that Ozpin's soul has merged or shared space with Oscar....so if we believe what he and Qrow said about the new host becoming, or becoming more like the previous maiden..........
.........Well, do you believe in destiny?
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Comments: 262
I hate to say it, but I ship this complex.....ARC.
My leave I will take.
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let's go down to the sound and the pier, there's a man sitting there with his cross, and his camera, and a bottle of beer. He sits all day and all through the night praying for a vision or a heavenly light, because he's willing to wait for the miriacle, he's willing to see it through. He's willing to wait for the miracle...
What else is he gonna do?
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I don't usually do this............but ( I believe in miracles starts playing in the background)
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I'm happy your aboard
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Where to next captain?
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Alright plot a course !
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do I belive in destiny?
Destiny, chance, fate, fortune—they're all just ways of claiming your successes without claiming your failures.
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Pyrrha's take on it's different I'll confess...
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I've been thinking about this even further... and I'm thinking it'd probably be more interesting, complex, and powerful if it was more Pyrrha's memories beginning to cloud over Cinder's thoughts, rather than Pyrrha actually being alive within Cinder. This way, we don't confuse people by saying that Cinder is slowly becoming Pyrrha because she absorbed Pyrrha... but because she's confusing the memories, Cinder would begin to be influenced by Pyrrha's and Amber's memories, and start to think like them. Likely more Pyrrha, than Amber, because Pyrrha was very resilient.
And to thicken the plot even further, what if Pyrrha somehow came back? There'd be quite a bit of a conflict between Pyrrha and Cinder (who is suffering from a slight identity crisis, who'd also be falling for Jaune because of Pyrrha's memories and her new experiences with Jaune). Jaune, being the nice guy he is, may suffer over the present choice. On the one hand, his fellow "not actually deceased" teammate would have come back after a long absence for who knows how long... and is suddenly thrust back into Jaune's life. On the other, there's already a budding relationship between Cinder and Jaune, which was allowed to flourish because everyone (except Cinder, maybe...) thought Pyrrha was dead and gone. It'd be shallow and unfair of Jaune to just terminate the relationship like that... and he'd know it... but then again, Cinder basically did steal Pyrrha's possible place in Jaune's life because of what happened at Beacon Tower... but then again, Cinder would've probably repented for that before Pyrrha comes back, when all is settled.
Makes my head spin and my heart race. Damn, so many possibilities...
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I'm actually doing that, Cinder's honestly the one kissing him, but because so much of Pyrrha's in her , and loving Jaune...it's kinda fucked.
I'm not having Pyrrha come back in some form other than this, but the idea is that there's a Cinder/Pyrrha person at the end of all of this.
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Awesome.
That's totally fine.
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While Cinder effectively being mentally poisoned by Pyrrha's memories might be one of the only ways you write her trying to be a good person, you still have the main cast, who she personally hurt, to deal with. They would only welcome her with full knowledge of that mental poisoning. There's no way they'd really believe that Cinder turned on her group of her own volition, and there's no way you could sell that idea to the audience. Not after she shot up a school in a bid for personal power. And a romance? Forget it, it's narrative suicide, and outright admittance of Cinder's status as a Villain Sue.
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I can see the rest of the cast not buying it initially, but I fail to see how the idea can't be sold to the audience...
And from the looks of things, destroying Beacon wasn't for personal gain... it was for a greater purpose which she was a part of. Though the rest of the cast would likely not know that unless they discovered it or it was revealed to them later on.
I missed something though... she would also have inherited Pyrrha's thought processes, which could strongly influence her too...
And she'd be suffering an identity crisis... Cinder would likely be at the point where she'd second guess who she really is. And then there's the possibility that at least one of the memories in Cinder's head from Pyrrha could reawaken something good in Cinder's heart (as no person is ever completely good or completely evil... there's always potential for both) that may have been snuffed out a long time ago. It's all pure speculation at this point, though.
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The scenario we have here is still one where Cinder is turning good due to an invasive outside influence on her mindset, NOT one she changed on her own. That is the real key here, and one of the writers could even begin to justify it: Cinder is not making this decision of her own accord. Not only that, but how much of the available time would they have to devote to such a story-line? You'd essentially be making the show ABOUT CINDER when it's supposed to be about this main cast of 8.
Look, I'm all for story-lines that humanize the monster, but the key is giving the audience something to grasp onto for that humanization BEFORE they do the obscenely reprehensible thing, and we never got that with Cinder before she shot up a school. Even if they do this kind of story right, and she turns good due to any influence of Pyrrha's soul on her, and they eventually forgive her....they won't FORGET. They won't forget that she personally upended their lives, that she murdered their friend in cold blood, that she enjoyed every minute of it, and most important of all, they will NOT forget that the only reason she's even reaching out to them, no matter how genuine she may be, is because their friend has poisoned her mind into acting in a different way than she otherwise would. That last one also is also why I reject the idea of Cinder being romantically involved with Jaune, even with that influence. That person is STILL the one that murdered his partner at her core.
Right now, they could give her the most horrific and abusive backstory, and I wouldn't even blink. I'd be asking "why should I CARE about this? SHE SHOT UP A SCHOOL!"
Now, if they were to do this to eventually have Pyrrha rise up from within and completely body-jack Cinder, I'd be all for it, since it is more about Pyrrha's rise than Cinder's fall, and in a very ironic way. Not only that, but you'd be constructing the story around one of the 8 mains and the fallout from that.
I will once again compare this to Prince Zuko of Avatar: The Last Airbender, and say that this is NOT that situation. While he served as the first season's antagonist, we saw several humanizing traits, a supporting character that actively sought his well-being, a sympathetic backstory, a season and a half of his path from antagonist to solid support to the mains, and above all, we saw it BEFORE he chose to betray Katara in the palace catacombs....and even THEN, he was still initially rebuffed when he tried to offer himself as Aang's Firebending teacher (only Toph spoke in his defense, and that was because she didn't know him at all), and Katara was STILL not having it, due to the betrayal being personal (that event effectively killed the Zutara ship, even if their supporters hadn't realized it).
Once again, you do NOT have Prince Zuko on hand, you have Princess Azula, and WITHOUT the defense of insanity. Now there, she truly crossed that line when she temporarily killed Aang, but we'd already seen several traits that certainly made us pity her (Zuko's backstory also showed us how psychotic she was, and Fire Nation indoctrination didn't help matters, and she bullied Mai and Ty Lee just as Cinder manhandled all her help into siding with her), but even as we pity her, we still see her outcome as entirely deserving. Cinder, with what we have seen up to the point where she Columbines things, doesn't even have that much going for her.
In short, why should I cry for a devil who truly deserves no tears? And don't give me that tired old line of everybody being neither completely good nor completely evil. Just because someone decides to truly change for the better doesn't absolve them of any evil they did before then, and especially if they've done truly abhorrent things. You DON'T get to walk away from those. And neither should Cinder, no matter what mental poisoning from another's soul may be going on.
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Goodness gravy, was the essay necessary?
Teasing aside, I do appreciate the in-depth analysis. 
I understand the standpoint about the timeliness of her backstory's reveal, but I disagree with it. Once it's revealed, at least then we'd understand why Cinder would go through such great lengths to cause such disharmony. Regardless of how the story goes, however, I wouldn't say that what she did would be justified in the slightest bit (reasonable retaliation)... but I'd still feel pity. Maybe it's just me, I happen to have very strong empathy.
You speak as though I'm familiar with Avatar: The Last Airbender... I've heard of it, but I've barely watched any of it, so I can't follow those points. Sorry...
As for the romantic relationship... you cannot deny that it's still possible that it could happen, no matter how unlikely it is. And if it happens, there'd be a scatstorm of crying, screaming, self-examination, recoil, and awkward stares. Trust would need to be painstakingly established, but it'd be built slowly, at a painful rate. The relationship would only work if Cinder's and Jaune's love for each other is stronger than all that stands against it when it starts off. I'd imagine Cinder would tear herself apart over whether her love for Jaune is legitimate, or merely the influence of the flood of strong memories... but then as time goes on and she experiences things with Jaune for herself, she may also start getting her own feelings for Jaune. Basically, pent-up feelings from Pyrrha's memories would cause her to finally double-cross her old associates, like here in this comic. The first seed would be planted during that kiss. Assuming the protagonists win the battle against Salem's forces, then after that victory (or maybe even before) there'd be some recoil and some second-guessing. She'd stop and think multiple times about what she did, why she did it, and where she'd be going. There's also Jaune to consider. Is he going along with this because he's truly in love with Cinder and forgives her, or is he deluded into thinking that Pyrrha's actually alive in Cinder because of all the mental recoil she's experiencing?
You're absolutely right in saying that just because people decide to do good from that point onward doesn't mean that they're automatically absolved. Actions never absolve people. People forgive people.
You say that people can't walk away from the truly abhorrent things they've done. I disagree. People can't easily walk away from the truly abhorrent things they've done. But it's possible. I'm not saying that everyone will be so forgiving (as that's going to be close to impossible). I imagine Cinder will have to face the consequences of her actions sooner or later (likely sooner, unless she is wanting and able to escape and run away). On one hand, not everyone will know what caused her to change her mind. Not everyone will forget. On the other hand, you seem to underestimate the power of forgiveness. People might not forget, but the events will still become history. Life will go on. Changed, yes. Scarred, yes. Some will hold that grudge, but others will deal with it and let it go. It will be harder for some than it will be for others, but it will happen.
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What I think is going on here is that you are inserting a dangerous amount of real life scenarios in what is, at its core, no matter how much it might resemble reality or how much we want it to...NOT REALITY. However, that concept can easily work against you. Yes, in real life, some people are forgiving to the point of insanity. Take the Columbine shooters, since I've already used the event in comparison to the Invasion of Beacon. I'm sure that they had their loved ones that cared about them no matter what they did, because they KNEW those two well before the events that led up to them deciding that killing their classmates was a thing they wanted to do. But for the average person who has no greater connection to them than hearing about it on the news, they were monsters on an obscene level that deserved the worst the legal system could throw at them. All people have these loved ones around them. But again, fiction is at its core NOT REAL LIFE, so while you or I can be as empathetic all we want, there is a time and a place to be empathetic, and that time is not anytime Cinder is present. It is one thing to imagine how such a story-line could go, but our perspective of Cinder, based on the narrative evidence, as the watching audience is effectively the same as the main cast: she is an abhorrent monster who got what she deserved in her crippling, and the only thing we should want for her is to have a blade sink between her shoulder blades and left for the Grimm to feast. While we might have a voice come to her defense in Emerald, she only has her own perspective to go on while we have the additional perspective of seeing "Beginning of the End" from CINDER'S perspective. From that, we KNOW that Cinder is implicitly blackmailing Emerald into helping her, since she could have EASILY ratted her out to the person Emerald stole from. Perhaps Emerald realizes this and is lying to herself. The point is, we have that additional perspective, thus we have more details to make a more accurate analysis, and all it does is show how calculating Cinder is in assembling her gang, nothing more, nothing less.
Now, if this series were well and truly ABOUT Cinder Fall, then I might find reason to entertain such a story-line of her being mentally poisoned by one of her victims, ultimately causing her to turn against the people she's allied with. However, it is not, and we have not had any narrative evidence that Cinder was a better person at any point prior to her involvement with Salem. Again, the time to show that has come and gone.
In addition, using this very fan-story as an example seems to be counter-productive as the third page seems to be Pyrrha actually speaking through Cinder's body, NOT Cinder speaking with Pyrrha's influence on her. Note Cinder's eye color has changed to Pyrrha's green, and did so on the previous page, underscoring the idea that Pyrrha herself is speaking to Jaune. While we do see Pyrrha's canon line in a different color, the color of the lines delivered by Cinder's body never change. Once the EYE color changes, her voice tone shifts. All the text color indicates is whose physical voice we are meant to hear, but it's the eye color that denotes who is really speaking.
I would strongly recommend watching Avatar: the Last Airbender, and focusing on the path of Prince Zuko. It was an incredible example of an antagonist's path to redemption. I would also compare the story of Darth Vader (Star Wars) favorably to Cinder as a villain attaining redemption, even if it was in the eyes of only one person. While Vader had most certainly done awful things, we as the audience had not truly seen them yet. Perhaps the "Moral Event Horizon", to use a TVTropes term, was crossed when he kills Obi-Wan Kenobi. However, we hear from Kenobi himself about how Luke's father was a better person when Kenobi knew him BEFORE Kenobi's death, planting that seed of atonement when Vader and Anakin Skywalker are eventually revealed to be the same man. Thus, Luke's personal quest to redeem him in Return of the Jedi carries its narrative weight, as does actually showing Anakin's fall from the Jedi to the Sith in Attack of the Clones and Revenge of the Sith in and of itself. After all, Luke grew up hearing of his father and his exploits and had those reinforced by someone that personally knew him. On top of that, Luke never truly experienced the monstrosity that was Vader the way Princess Leia did, something both the Expanded Universe novels AND The Force Awakens accounted for in Leia's character.
All these things are important to show, so without them, we see no reason to think that the character is anything other than what she has been presented as. And again, it is too late to matter.
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I see, good points.
She is an abhorrent monster who got what she deserved in her crippling, and the only thing we should want for her is to have a blade sink between her shoulder blades and left for the Grimm to feast.
Sounds juicy... I believe I can arrange for that... if I found it to be climactic enough, though. I would advise following up with a series of brutal punches all over, and finish it off by shoving a foot in her face... namely, hers.
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Thank you. It's why I've pretty much written off the idea of Cinder going good, other than an Enemy Mine situation. And should the "Pyrrha in Cinder" idea actually be canon, it damn well better be a Pyrrha story-line, one that would see her take over Cinder's body completely. Honestly, it's time the woman got something that was for her in her own right, and not just to be a plot pinata for everyone else. Yes, even the ENTIRE MAIDEN PLOT was just for those f***ing EYES.
All that being said, if they actually go the route of Cinder going good along with something romantic with Jaune (or anyone, really), and NOT have them acknowledge the piece of Pyrrha in her.....then this would be a series I'd throw right in the garbage, along with pretty much Rooster Teeth's entire content library.
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No problem!
If Cinder goes good, they gotta at least give Pyrrha some credit!
Something a bit more dramatic... what if Pyrrha actually does hijack Cinder's body, during the climax of an epic scene, where some bad stuff is about to go down, and she's the only one who could stop it? She kisses Jaune once again, like in this story, and goes off to sacrifice herself (and Cinder's body) to stop the thing for good, dying in the process. Jaune would basically be losing Pyrrha twice... that'd kill him.
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That depends entirely on how they set everything up, and if Pyrrha is indeed a "main" character, then they really have to. Mains are supposed to have prime importance in terms of driving the narrative, up to and including their death. In short, a main characters' death has to have the character being killed as the primary focus, and a writer damn well should resolve any personal character arcs in a satisfactory way before the death happens, mains are entitled to that. With what we got in season 3, none of that happened. Because we do not see how Cinder defeats Ozpin, the battle between her and Pyrrha puts more focus on Cinder; it is now effectively a "new power" showcase for Cinder moreso it being a heroic moment for Pyrrha. A detailed breakdown of the two combatants reveals that Pyrrha had no chance against Cinder even if she had been at her best, Cinder being equated to Glynda Goodwitch at minimum in the very first episode (Glynda is Pyrrha's better in every way), and then both strengthening Cinder and weakening Pyrrha mentally before they fought. We also know that Cinder has toyed with her opponents before (her skirmish with Ruby in the comm room). Basically, the only reason Pyrrha lasted so long against Cinder was because Cinder ALLOWED it. I've already mentioned how the moment of death was not about Pyrrha, but about giving Ruby her Silver Eyes power-up, but right before that, we are also wondering about the last line exchange between the two fighters. What does Cinder even mean with her response? So while Pyrrha's last words seem to be poignant, we are more wondering about Cinder's response, once again allowing Cinder to actually be the one driving the narrative.
Basically, they need to make Pyrrha's death PRIMARILY ABOUT PYRRHA. She is supposedly a "main" character, so she is entitled to a death narrative that is all about her. After all, one does not kill Captain Kirk the way one kills his Red Shirts, right?
And at this point, us trying to devise scenarios about how things would play out is almost meaningless, not if they're not going to carry their narrative weight. I've already decided that I'm not entertaining the idea of Cinder developing a romance with anyone in the main cast for the reasons I've gone over in past posts. In the end, it is the responsibility of the writers to build the proper foundation for gigantically climactic moments, and so far they've failed in that regard. The scenario you describe would be nothing more than a repeat of season 3, and in an even more distasteful way, since you've brought Pyrrha back solely for the purpose of killing her right after. Not only that, but if the main cast suddenly receives another body on their side just as something happens that requires one of then to stay behind and die in their efforts to stop it, then it becomes obvious that you are not only performing a revival for the express purpose of killing that same character, but you are ALSO doing it to avoid killing the other characters, a double whammy of shitty writing at that point. The writers of the anime Akame ga Kill were basically accused of doing something similar: they introduced two new characters mid-way through, only to kill them both very quickly, which spared the pre-existing characters for a time. RT would essentially be doing that if they did what you suggest. Related to that is if another of JNPR receives a death like Pyrrha's something that furthers someone else (likely Ruby again): I would essentially levy that accusation against Rooster Teeth, that they only made JNPR "mains" so they could get cred off of the popular trend of killing mains for shock value and popularity, and to avoid killing any of team RWBY.
And like the previous scenario, I would simply walk away from RWBY. I cannot respect writers that would use half of their "main" cast as death-blockers for the other half.
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This could make for an interesting story, though... a fourth-wall breaker...
What if the characters that were supposed to be death-blockers suddenly found out what the writers had planned for them, and that alters the course of the story entirely?
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While I find it unlikely that this is the case... if Rooster Teeth DOES pull this off, it would be the ultimate fucking plot twist, and Arkos Shippers would rejoice. If not... HEADCANON!
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Sir I don't know where this is going but I like it
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I don't believe in destiny... Because we're the ones who create it by doing our actions in the present day... By forging our Path along the way... "Destiny"... is just a nickname for our actions and our decisions, thus... It becomes clear and lives among us
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The phrase "....Yes..." and it's close proximity to Cinder's/Pyrrha's/Amber's butt just goes to show how..........THICC it is.
......I have a dirty mind..........I'm sorry.
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I noticed the butt before the yes ... Should that say something ?
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.....about my dirty mind?..........yes........is should say something.
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Jaune does not. But all is for naught...Salem appears.
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