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Paperiapina β WP's Dragon Guide, part 03
Published: 2009-02-11 16:43:35 +0000 UTC; Views: 11895; Favourites: 224; Downloads: 151
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And back again, just when you thought I might have stopped, my dragon nagging continues!Previous part: [link]
Well, I was supposed to upload this already weeks ago, but my scanner and I had some disagreements about the situation.
Oh, and before I forget, I'd like to thank ~shiari , who first told me about "the hanging butt syndrome" looooong ago. I don't know whether she is the person who made the term up or not (in case you did, sorry for stealing your term) but it is a really good term. So thanks! ^^
And HUUUUUGE thanks to everyone who commented on the previous parts of this guide. Sorry that I haven't answered you all, but I sure read every comment and enjoyed them! ^^
All comments are highly appreciated! ^^
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Comments: 89
Ha, greatest rant ever. FACEPALM! I loved it!
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Hey, this has coincided pretty well with my recent thoughts. Lately I was designing a bat-person and therefore researching wings and musculature (though, of course, not as in-depth as you have been, I realise now) and got sidetracked to dragons. And after reading up what little I had on wings, I began to have the same thoughts towards the stylised dragons. (And PokΓ©mon, but that's another story!) So, yeah, this guide helped A LOT, and I can relate to it. Awesome work, all in all!
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Hmm... so if you did leg wings, then would the flying muscles be the abs and lower back?
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Awesome. Didn't know about the hanging butt syndrome 
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I've just read through all three sections of this rant-tutorial, and I am disappointed that you did not elaborate on the structure of the 'flight musculature behind and in front of the forelimbs' design - my own dragons seem to adopt a more frontal muscle placement, but I am still curious about this design as I do incorporate aspects of it. I've been trying to figure it out myself, so if you would have any ideas of how the musculature would 'wrap' around the forelimb structure, it would be really interesting to know.
You have to take in account the forelimb skeleton itself, including any semblance of scapula, clavicle/coracoid (collarbone/wishbone equivalent in humans/birds), and the muscles that attach themselves to that forelimb structure - do the flight muscles go over these, and what range of motion does that hinder on the forelimbs themselves? I've gotten a temporary system in my own species that makes the front limbs a little less maneuverable (frequently and easily broken when I'm going for a certain anthropomorphic gesture or action), but I'm curious about your own ideas on how this design would work. I can show you an example of my design:
[link]
[link]
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There's no need to be disappointed, really, as this guide-thingy was never meant for advanced people like you, it was more like ranting for those people who consider that dragons that fit Mickey Mouse comics would be good in realistic fantasy too. I've seen that happening way too often. This guide wasn't meant to be the ultimate truth about how dragons should be made, since I think that part of their attraction is the fact that thy have so large variation (and I'm not physician). I think your dragons' muscles are well thought out.
I like to use the 'flight musculature behind and in front of the forelimbs' design, although having most of the mass behind the front limbs. Their front limb shoulderblades are like some dinosaurs, rather narrow and aligned almost horizontally on the ribcage, while wings aren't attached to moving scapulas at all, they have bone projections on their spine that anchors the wings. It's pretty hard to explain with limited vocabulary (I'm not native English speaker).
But I still think you have made up a good anatomy on your own already. I don't think I could possibly teach you anything you either don't know or couldn't learn by yourself. I'm no expert myself.
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That's an interesting design! It sounds like it could work well. Thanks for the response!
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I suppose I only have one criticism, but that's me being a pedant: your HBS, not strictly true if it either flies (very) quikley or has powerful tendons or muscles down it's spine.
I tend to follow your convention of attaching wings properly though.
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This is an awesome set of articles. My artistic friend has been harping on me and my love of "stylistic" dragons, informing me that they could never fly. Your rant/FAQ puts it into pictures with examples that show exactly what she has been saying forever. I will never look at stylistic dragons the same way again!
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I like. I've seen too many utterly impossible dragons.
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EXCELLENT! I know exactly what you are talking about. Even thought I'm not exactly that good at drawing I always do my best to get the anatomy right. People always argue with me when I tell them that a "realistic" creature isn't really realistic. Thank you for making this known to the public a bit more.
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What a great tutorial! I really wont think of wings quite the same, expecailly the membrane part. Its been a great help and i hope you make more utorials sometime 8D
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Thank you!!! This was so helpful, and I love the term Hanging Butt Syndrome.. lol!
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FINALLY someone points out that membrane thing!
It's one of the biggest pet peeves of mine when it comes to dragons.
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HBS xD that made me lol, great job! The humor you put into this while educating me is wonderful 
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I love these tutorials. Always very amusing and well thought out.
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I laughed so hard upon seeing HBS mentioned. I wasn't the one to first coin the phrase, but it was brought up on a forum when people were discussing wings and several mentioned the fact that a dragon without the wing membrane attached to the body a fair way is going to fly like an upside down L... namely, their butts are going to hang!
These tutorials are absolutely incredible and I give you the greatest praise for creating them. 
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Well, the "hanging butt syndrome" allows the dragon to attack butt first, producing a very effective repulsion reaction on the ennemy. >D
Your dragon guides are great, too bad i'm instructed now...^^
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Yep, going good, and good going. Love a good "facepalm" every now and then, and your style of doing nonsensical, non-related comments and little pics in there just is good
Also, what Redd-Duct said; your English has really improved
Now, if I actually bothered to draw some dragons, I'd even might make some use of this. Been a while since I did a dragon of any sort, come to think of it...
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I've got to say, I love these guides of yours. They're so funny!
And, I realized in this one that I remember when you were first drawing on here and your English still had a little bit of an awkward tone to it. I'd like to congratulate you on coming through as a native-English speaker on these guides!
Keep up the great work, on both your artistic skills and your grammar.
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Oh, you really think that way? Wow, I feel flattered. o.o Thank yous! ^^
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lol. these are AMAZING! i cant beileve its just a tutaorial! thanks so much! its will help a lot!
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Lmao, the "facepalm" in there made me laugh. Very correct tutorial, it bugs me when people draw them incorrectly too. The internet is a good resource people should use to learn things. 
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Thank yous! ^^
Searching from internet requires critical eye, though. Ive seen loads of tutorials that don't actually teach anything, or tutorials that teach "wrong" things. You can find some pretty ridiculous stuff if you use search engines. Most of the wing tutorials I've seen concentrate in the technique how to draw textures on the wings instead of actually explaining WHY or HOW things work. (Which is, actually, the basic reason why I started to draw these guides. I found a dragon drawing guidebook at bookstore one day, which was part of a popular manga drawing book series, and it bugged me so much that this happened.)
But thank yous! ^^ Your approval is highly appreciated.
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Well, there are always bad and good sources out there. It's nice to have people like you to set everyone right.
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It's pretty funny, because two weeks ago, I was talking to my friends about limbs in general. We all agreed that our own limbs were, in terms of bone structure, the same as other mammals, but when I also said that dragons' wigs were like that, they all laughed at me! IΒ΄m going to shove this into their faces and laugh at them now!
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Ahem, I meant Β΄wingsΒ΄..... Β΄Scuse me for that....
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Dragons wings have been drawn with the human limb structure for agggess. Most movies have them with the general bone structure people's arms have too. Heck, they even connect to the body on shoulders! You must have some pretty silly friends 8] It feels like common knowledge to me, but maybe you and I are among the few who pay attention.
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I usually try to draw my wings ending halfway down the tail. Could that be realistic? I like how it looks anyhow.
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It sounds good, yes. *nod nod* It's beliveable, and beliveability is the thing that makes it work.
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I am so going to use the Hanging Butt Syndrome expression the next time I see those unfinished wings >D
I have one thing to add, an experiment I once did. I've built 2 paper airplanes and removed part of the wing close to the body to see if it would stay in the air. Both of them glided, though the second lost altitude faster (if I remember correctly)
Not the same as self-propelled flight of course, but though you'd might like to know
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Hehe, great, isn't it?
Sure I'm interested! Experimenting in real life helps to understand the world better. Trial and error are the basics of sience and all learning. ^^ Hmm, I might actually try that out myself.
Thanks! ^^
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Indeed XDD
Quite true. And if you do try it I'd love to know the results. Flying airplanes in a small bedroom is not exactly the best place to conduct experiments
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I've read all three part now, and it looks really good this far
Your dragons look pretty awesome, btw.
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Thank yous!
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Ah, I'm luffing this series!
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