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PieWriter β The Pie Writer is Misunderstood BAW
Published: 2013-01-04 03:53:33 +0000 UTC; Views: 2255; Favourites: 41; Downloads: 0
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Description
Decided to make this, because every time I try to explain this to upset atheists, I feel as if it goes through one ear and out the other. I can understand why they are angry or annoyed about some thick-headed "Christians" screaming how godless, evil people like them ruined the country and list the recent events as why that is so. I just don't appreciate it when I'm clumped into that group and my message isn't heard the way it should be.Because of that, I decided to make something for both sides of the fence: Bible Thumpers and angry atheists alike.
No hate in the comments, guyz. Just love. Or non-hate. That works too.
Peace be with you.
Related deviations:
Why blame God for Godlessness? [link]
Where DO You Want Him? [link]
If there are any more deviations I can list here, feel free to tell me and give me a link.
If the clarifications on misconceptions presented here is making you inexplicably angry, please step away from your computer and go for a walk. It'll do you some good.
Related content
Comments: 32
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When did the majority decide for god's free will? I'm sure that the six million kikes in Germany were ever so grateful for that free will.
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Isn't it just sad that most people here often mistake evangelical Protestant Fundamentalism for Roman Catholicism without actually spending some time to study Christian history with an open mind?
And I am saying this as a non-denominational Protestant myself.
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*rolls eyes* And this is why I am not proud of atheists. I'm just... agnostic. I don't want to pray or go to church or any of that stuff, but can we please not argue? Argumentation is cool. Arguing is not. And yes, there is a difference.
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Personally I think religion should stay out of politics and public buildings. This is not to say I am against God, after all I am a Catholic and proud of it, but I do think to many people use God as an excuse to be mean to other people and that religion and politics to often end in blood shed. In other words politicians should not be trusted with the word of God. Β Β
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Advocatus Diaboli, you show both sides, good cartoon ma'am.
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Personally, I'm an agnostic when it comes to God yet in terms of myΒ behavior I may as well be Christian.Β
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It could go both ways yes and it's always good to attack both. I do that myself.
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Always good to attack both sides. My hat off to you miss
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this is exactly true. sometimes I have trouble answering that question, just because sometimes I have troubles putting my beliefs into words, this was very good. thanks.
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I have a few questions that I need for clarification. I sort of understand what you're trying to say, but in some ways it doesn't make sense to me. So, without any malice or attempt to say anything offensive (and if what I say is offensive, please let me know) can you clarify some things for me?
First, if we're speaking about America here, the majority of people are still Christian. If that's the case, why is God "giving us space"? Lawmakers might be limiting freedom of expression, but they are not the majority. This doesn't really negate your argument or anything, but it does muddle the issue for me since you said "majority".
Second, natural disasters and wars and shootings, etc have happened since the beginning of time, regardless of whether or not the society worshiped God or wanted him near. In fact, religious zealotry has often caused problems (not all by any means... I'm not one of THOSE people who thinks religion is the root of all evil or something). If wanting God near is the prerequisite for avoiding un-Godly things, then why do horrible things still happen regardless? I'm of the opinion that natural disasters and human violence has a lot more to do with living in a dark world than whether or not people pray in schools. Especially natural disasters.
Lastly, how is saying "God gave us space because of a hostile attitude towards him, resulting in a sick society" any different than blaming atheists or separation-of-church-and-state-ists (lol?) for the problems in society? I'm not fully understanding the distinction here. I think you're saying that a society that abandons its faith in God will be more likely to act in an immoral manner, resulting in problems. I might be wrong here, so please correct me if so. But I fail to understand how that's really any different than playing the blame-game. I don't think you want to point fingers, but it seems to effectively be the same thing. Can you clarify for me?
I hope none of my questions seem confrontational or offensive because that's really not my intention. I just want to understand this better. I tend to find that conservative Christians and non-Christians/liberal Christians tend to butt heads a lot simply due to misunderstanding of each other and I like to be able to bridge that gap since I've spent a lot of time in both "camps". This is something that I'm having a hard time with so I'd appreciate some clarification from someone that I am pretty sure won't fly off the handle at me, lol! Thanks!
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Oh, you're not being offensive at all! I am more than happy to willingly answer honest questions.
First question: I think I made the mistake of not defining "God giving people space" and "God forsaking the whole nation" in this deviation. Whenever there is a rejection or absence of God, godless things happen, aka, evil things. However, if God truly forsake this nation, we wouldn't have police officers helping shooting victims, we wouldn't have relief efforts for victims of natural disaster, etc. God is giving us space, but He will always protect those who have faith in Him. I hope that makes sense, since there are much longer articles and essays on the subject and it's hard to condense into one paragraph.
Second question: The reason why there is suffering if because of sin. I actually made a stamp about it here and discussed it a little: [link] But basically, sin is the rejection of humanity's original goodness, and of God's divinity in us. Likewise, the absence of God is evil. While it is obvious that the world is corrupted and even believers may suffer (I mean, even Jesus suffered!), individuals find a peace in accepting their original humanity and doing godly things in an ungodly world. I highly suggest you read my stamp comments though, as I go into more detail about sin.
Last question: Like I mentioned (or tried to say in my comments) on my deviation, I was not saying atheists or non-Christians in general were to blame. Even some Christians are accountable, as they refuse to defend God or stand up for themselves, or even misrepresent God. I am merely saying that, like before, worship of God is not needed, and religious intolerance on both sides in general is bad. I like to use the Ancient Egyptians as an example. They worshiped their own gods and had their own culture and society, and were a powerful, flourishing empire; however, they did some godly things, and wouldn't dare mess around with God's plans after the mishap with Moses and the Hebrews. Again, worship of God is not needed, but blatant hostility to His presence anywhere does not lead to good things. This goes to non-Christians and Christians alike.
Sorry if I was unable to answer anything more clearly. There's a LOT of theology and study behind this, and it feels like every week and day, I gain a new depth into this issue and similar ones. So if I WAS unable to answer any questions, I highly encourage you to do some research done by better researchers and theologians than I; if you like, I can even note you a list of sources to start out with.
I pray you will be able to find your answers. Peace be with you!
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I think I do understand you a little better, especially after your answer to my last question. You're saying that every society everywhere suffers from a lack of godliness or sin (whether from believers or unbelievers) and that causes evil things (since sin was the original cause of the Fall, I'm guessing). By that idea, I feel like silly things like the removing of the 10 Commandments from courthouses and removing mandated prayer would have a negligible effect, if any (removing mandated prayer isn't a sin). I guess that's the biggest place where we disagree, but that's okay. I don't find your viewpoint offensive to me or non-believers (which is a great improvement from many "Christians" who have spoken up about this) and I am happy to agree to disagree.
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I am happy to hear that! However, I just want to remind you that it's not silly things like removing the ten commandments from courtrooms that cause issues: it's the attitudes behind them. For instance, if a largely secular community didn't mind it being taken down, then it wouldn't really be that big of a deal. It's when groups like the ACLU throw a hissy fit over a town's traditional nativity scene, even though the town has been putting it up for years and it means a lot to most of the inhabitants. Again, more about attitude.
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I do think there are cases when the complaints are unnecessary, but overall I think most of the changes have been positive. Also, just because the majority doesn't agree with the change doesn't make it wrong. We maybe a majority Christian nation, but we pride ourselves on being open to all and not endorsing one religion over another. That distinction should remain or we have problems like the religious oppression of gay folks, for instance. That's a whole other can of worms though, lol!
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Very well put!
I'm pleased to meet someone who isn't ashamed to express your faith in a friendly and Christ like way. I'm ashamed to say that I've met many Bible Thumpers in my time...and it is people like them who give Christians a bad name and a bad rep. I know that they mean well...but they're doing more harm than good.
You shouldn't be so hard on yourself if your words go through one ear and out the other. There are some who will not listen...and will not understand. I wrote a devotional about how to approach people with the message of God (go check it out if you like...I'll send a link if you're interested). The best thing you can do is present the message God has for them. Say what you need to say and do what God wants you to...and then step back. You'd be amazed at what God can do. Just do what He says...no more and no less. God will work wonders when you obey and then let him take over.
God Bless You!
-Cliff
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Thanks for the encouragement! And I suppose I could read your devotional; it should be an interesting read at the least.
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You're welcome. [link] That is the link to the devotional. It may not help all that much, but I think that you might find it interesting.
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I especially like this message! I grew up in a church that pretty much taught "Preach the message or you're not doing it right!", so I can relate to people who feel uncomfortable about "evangelization on steroids".
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Thank you very much. I'm glad that you found it interesting. I really hope that we might become friends ^_^
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Peace be with you, buddy
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I love the irony about how atheists donβt want God in their lives, and yet when incidents like this happen, they always ask where God was. You canβt shun somebody and then demand to know why they were absent.
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I think some of the more rude atheists and anti-theists like to use those opportunities to try and "discredit" God, and to make Christians look like bigoted radicals. Which I find repulsive, since people DIED from those incidents.
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I'm glad you like it.
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So basically you are annoyed at both the far sides of the "debate". You are not alone in that regard. I am Christian, and I respect others beliefs for God loves all.
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