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PoppyCorn99 — Bible Question #1 - First Days Incest?
Published: 2013-08-11 05:33:49 +0000 UTC; Views: 2543; Favourites: 69; Downloads: 16
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Hi everybody! I'm sorry I haven't responded to comments, I'll get on that in the morning!This calls for an explanation:
Few people know this about me, but I am a religious person (in a good way, I promise!!!), and I ran into this totally out-of-context accusation someone made of the Bible. Naturally, when something precious to someone is made fun of, people feel the need to fight back, so this is my response to that comment.
It really makes my blood boil when people misrepresent Christianity, because it makes even the good, well-meaning Christians look bad. I made this post to clear the air and hopefully make sense of anyone's confusions. I will probably make more of these in the future as well.
If anyone sees any grammar, punctuation, hard-to-understand parts, let me know and I'll fix it (sometimes I think too fast and I forget to put things in my work, so I hope I didn't miss something!). This is meant to go in another website in the near future, so I want it to be as good as I can make it. ^^
ALSOOOO~
I've been studying the Bible more often lately, and if anyone has a question they want to ask, feel free to send me a note. I love answering Bible-related questions!
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Comments: 89
Interesting thought.
But what if God just made each descendant a partner from a part of their ribs like he did with Adam?
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Although that's an interesting theory, there's no basis for that in the Bible. Just like with understanding historical events, we have to use the information we have to make sense of it, not fill in the blank areas with what we think. It's definitely an idea I'd like to believe, but we can't accept something into biblical teachings unless there is sound support for that idea in the Bible itself.
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Thank you for that. I was just a guess I thought of but never took it at official.
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It's good to be skeptical and wonder about things, never stop! The potential danger is when people take their own thoughts/opinions as fact without checking if it's a valid argument first.
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I have more like this planned, hopefully this summer if my schedule allows
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Your reasoning are shortsighted and smallmindwd
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Well it wasn't meant to be a thoroughly-written essay or anything. 
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so that's why the first human beings lived several hundred years in the Bible...
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that explanation makes sense. quick question, do you believe in hell as a place of eternal torture, or will it end for the sinners eventually? (i.e. eventually they fade into oblivion)
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Lol I can't provide an adequate answer to that in a short comment! If you want we can definitely talk about it via note so we don't flood my post with huge comments, but in short I believe, after studying the Bible, that hell is not eternal. The idea that a loving God would endlessly torture the people He died to save is cruel and contradictory to the God of love the Bible describes.
I think it would be best explained if you watched a video about it. This guy is amazing at covering all the points:
Part 1 (covers the basics)
Part 2 (covers challenging verses and specifics)
There's also a fast and hard-hitting version of it Here
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Is that website supposed to be cathoic?
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I am not affiliated with the Catholic Church, so I do not endorse their doctrines here
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This just proves atheists know next to nothing about the Bible even though they claim to know it front to back.
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Simply memorizing strange Bible texts to throw at someone to trap them doesn't help the individual understand the context and purpose of certain things in the Bible. This leaves room for verses to be thrown grossly out of context and makes things sound much, much worse than they really are.
Also, some people don't even want to know the context, they just hear one thing without knowing the whole story, then they jump to conclusions and spread disturbing theories about the Bible when they initially never understood it in the first place.
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incest is wincest and I love my sister :3 you can eat a big ol fat dick
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Genetic defects are not caused by a compromised immune system.
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It may not be the immune system that causes it, but there can be mutations in the genetic code that cause infections or other illnesses (e.g. HIV, diabetes, cancer, etc) that bypass or prevent the immune system from fighting back. Also, if one believes in Biblical events they would also know that back then things would be perfect, without the possibility of mutations which would inhibit or hurt the body.
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HIV and diabetes aren't caused by mutations (one is caused by a virus and most cases of diabetes are lifestyle related), and none of those three are congenital. Congenital birth defects arise from inheriting certain recessive genes from the parents, something which has nothing to do with diseases or the immune system.
Perfection really wouldn't have meant much, as imperfections would show up within a few generations in a population that small. Also, it makes no sense that a loving God would create humans with a perfect genetics then allow for things like congenital birth defects to show up.
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Of course imperfections showed up over the generations, that's why we have problems with these things today! 
Okay, this needs to be clarified:
When God created things, they were perfect, until sin came along. When large cats and lizards were created they didn't eat the flesh of other creatures, (Genesis 1:29-30) but after sin they did, whether there came physical changes or not. Obviously Lions would have no need for sharp fangs if they only ate plants, so fangs probably came along after sin so that they could survive, whether it was a trait given by God or as a result of microevolution.
Likewise, when sin came, so did the degeneration of the human genetics. People became weaker, worked harder, and ate less healthy foods, leading to less-than-perfect children who probably worked hard alongside the parents. God isn't going to just hand-feed us all our lives to make sure nothing bad happens to us, because if He did that, we wouldn't ever see the effects of sin and we wouldn't see the need to change, since God would already be protecting us so much. So He allows these bad things to happen not because He thinks "we deserve it", technically we don't even deserve to be alive right now. We just need to realize that sin comes from Satan, and we should never forget that God is not the cause of things like birth defects.
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Of course imperfections showed up over the generations, that's why we have problems with these things today!
They should have showed up rather quickly, given how the Bible requires a very shallow gene pool if it's accurate. Species with numbers less than 100 - 150 have a high risk of extinction due to the lack of genetic diversity, yet the Biblical gene pool is smaller by a factor of 10. The only possible way this couldn't have caused extinction within a few generations is if God was constantly safeguarding us against genetic drift and mutations.
Obviously Lions would have no need for sharp fangs if they only ate plants, so fangs probably came along after sin so that they could survive, whether it was a trait given by God or as a result of microevolution.
Except that isn't supported by the fossil record, nor does it make any sense at all (why would a loving God punish the giant cats for the actions of a pair of great apes?).
Likewise, when sin came, so did the degeneration of the human genetics. People became weaker, worked harder, and ate less healthy foods, leading to less-than-perfect children who probably worked hard alongside the parents.
None of that really follows, and again, it really makes no sense at all in light of the biological evidence.
So He allows these bad things to happen not because He thinks "we deserve it", technically we don't even deserve to be alive right now.
What exactly have I or any random person done to be told that we don't deserve life? That's sounds rather monstrous, if you ask me.
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The genealogy of the Bible is not complete; it only lists the genealogy of Jesus, as it is the only one that really matters. I'm sure that if the genealogy of the whole population were written down there would be "another Bible" filled with only that, so I can imagine there was a whole lot of people with birth defects, they just aren't mentioned in the bible because they are not relevant to the story of redemption.
I understand the fossil record doesn't agree with that, and I don't think there is a way to explain that other than tell you that the changes were immediate. Lions and trees suffered along with Adam and Eve, because sin is a destructive force. Wherever it is things will die.
"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now." (Romans 8:19-22 NKJV).
Obviously you are not very familiar with Christian beliefs. Once sin came into the earth, we have since been doomed to eternal death. (Romans 6:23) Nobody is free from sin (Rom. 3:23)(Isaiah 64:6), and without outside help we have no hope of escaping it. That is exactly what the plan of salvation was for (John 3:16)(Hebrews 2:17). Jesus came to the earth as a human to live a life without sin for us. He was ridiculed and killed for us. Because of this sacrifice, we now have the option to escape from eternal death and live a happy life "But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ." (1 Corinthians 15:57 NKJV)
When I learn that someone went through all that trouble to save us from our own mistake, it sounds like anything but monstrous; that's like your own mother willingly going to jail in your place for committing a brutal crime. Would you not be grateful for a selfless sacrifice like that?
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I'm sure that if the genealogy of the whole population were written down there would be "another Bible" filled with only that, so I can imagine there was a whole lot of people with birth defects, they just aren't mentioned in the bible because they are not relevant to the story of redemption.
The point is there shouldn't be a human species in the first place if we take the Bible literally since the human genome would be so shallow that no amount of reproduction could save it. This is doubly true if Noah's flood really happened, as enough time would have passed between the beginning of time and Noah's life that there would be no "perfect" genome. Ignoring environmental factors, humanity would have died out within 10-15 generations.
I understand the fossil record doesn't agree with that, and I don't think there is a way to explain that other than tell you that the changes were immediate.
That would still show up in the fossil record even if it were physically possible, which it isn't.
When I learn that someone went through all that trouble to save us from our own mistake, it sounds like anything but monstrous; that's like your own mother willingly going to jail in your place for committing a brutal crime. Would you not be grateful for a selfless sacrifice like that?
No, I wouldn't because I never committed any crimes! If we accept the Bible's chronology as 100% accurate, then we are all being punished for the crimes of our ancestors, one which is rather minor compared to some of the worst crimes which we are capable of committing. To top it all off, God is threatening us with an eternity of torture if we don't beg forgiveness for his mistakes. This kind of tyranny would make even the worst of abusive parents blush.
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Are you telling me you've never lied? Stolen? Lusted after somebody? Felt a hint of jealousy? Disrespected your parents? Anything that involves breaking one of the Ten Commandments is sin. "Whoever commits sin also commits lawlessness, and sin is lawlessness." (1 John 3:4 NKJV)
What I don't think you understand is that Hell was not meant for people. It was made for Satan and his demons. "Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 25:41 NKJV)
God doesn't want us to die,
"The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance." (2 Peter 3:9 NKJV)
In our lives we need to make a decision to either stay with God or not, and as much as He wants us to be with Him, He will not force us, so if we do not make that decision, by default we will have chosen Satan instead, and will follow him into a death that was not meant for us. God is trying to lure us away from stepping onto the busy street, but if we ignore him He can't stop us from being run over.
Lastly, this is extremely important: nobody is condemned to an eternity of torture. Listen, this video is perfect for you to understand this, and it explains what you said in your last paragraph completely. Please consider watching it, it's only 9 minutes long. www.helltruth.com/free-resourc…
I pray that you will consider watching this and open your mind to understand it.
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Are you telling me you've never lied? Stolen? Lusted after somebody? Felt a hint of jealousy? Disrespected your parents? Anything that involves breaking one of the Ten Commandments is sin.
Lying? Only as a child, otherwise no.
Stealing? See above.
Lust? If by that you mean "disrespected someone's boundaries over attraction," then absolutely not.
Jealousy? That's debatable. Certain types of jealousy are constructive (ie: that's how an economy works), while others are not.
Disrespect? Respect, in my book, is earned. No one gets a free pass due to station.
Here's the thing. I don't make a habit of any of those things. However, the way the above is being phrased, even if you are an otherwise honorable and dignified human being, if you have ever done any of the above, it makes you a hardened criminal (even if you regretted doing so and never did the above again). That's a bit harsh, don't you think?
In our lives we need to make a decision to either stay with God or not, and as much as He wants us to be with Him, He will not force us, so if we do not make that decision, by default we will have chosen Satan instead
I already tried the whole "following God" bit and never got anything positive out of it. If anything, my life has improved by being my own agent (I can focus on being a good person for this life and worry about the next one later). Furthermore, I don't see how refusal to follow a jealous, demanding bully is opting to follow Satan.
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While the first part of your entry about how many children Adam and Eve had is valid, the rest kind of falls flat. Mostly, (and no offense) it's just assumptions based on an apparent misunderstanding of genetics; population size has no effect on inbreeding if the entire population can be traced back to a single, dangerously tiny gene pool. To get some perspective, because pugs are so inbred, 10,000 individuals are the genetic equivalent of just 50. That makes them more genetically compromised than the giant panda.
But there's one thing that really makes no sense: "Also, God never "changed his mind". He allowed incest in the beginning because there was no other choice."
Are you saying that God, the omnipotent, omniscient creator of the universe, had no choice but to make just two people, despite having the knowledge that it was a bad idea and the power to make more?
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>>No offense taken.
>>This is not meant to be the "Holy Grail" that will convince skeptics around the world that the Bible is true. In fact, I admit that to someone who does not agree with the Bible's teachings this whole post can sound absolutely preposterous!
>> Suppose a family has passed down a mutated gene over time (which may or may not show symptoms) and two siblings with that same mutated gene have a baby. When both parents pass their mutation to the child, there is a 25% (1 in 4) chance of the child developing the disease, and 50% (1 in 2) chance of inheriting one abnormal gene, making the child a carrier.
There is also the emotional aspect:
Children need the love of parents and siblings. When that nurturing, platonic love is replaced with romantic, sexual love, they will never see their families in the same light. Oftentimes parental incest leads to abuse and serious psychological trauma, and can you imagine how awkward it would be to date your brother/sister, break up, and live the rest of our life seeing them every day at home? Families fall apart when the parents keep dating on and off with strangers, and it makes it even worse then the same happens within the family itself.
When the Bible says something is wrong, it's not just "because God said so". So far, most if not all moral laws in the Bible have logical explanations as to why it is considered wrong.
>>The same article from BBC News that talks about the pug inbreeding also mentions how bad it is, because pugs, along with other pedigree dog breeds, suffer from health issues like breathing problems, inability to mate/give birth unassisted, and even epilepsy. Besides, animals don't have morals like people do, so we shouldn't compare dogs with intelligent, free-thinking humans.
>>I didn't say God didn't have a choice, I said humans didn't have a choice because there weren't any other humans other than themselves at the time. God could've easily made more couples so incest wouldn't be necessary, but He didn't. I don't know why God only created two people, and I doubt anyone on earth will ever know, but that is what happened, and we can ask God Himself why He made it that way when we meet Him in heaven. ^^
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>>Well that's good. Too many Christians it seems are too easily riled up and resort to childish playground tactics.
>>I wouldn't quite say preposterous. Silly, maybe.
>>And as I was trying to demonstrate with the pug example, continuing to breed from family members with no "outside contact" as it were, even after several generations, would just compound the problems, leading to physical deformities, mental retardation and psychoses, deafness and blindness, weak immune systems, sterility and even stillbirth. It's doubtful that, as a species, they would have lasted very long. The same logic goes to the eight survivors of Noah's Flood.
>>Actually, animals do have morals. The best example I can think of is that elephants respect and mourn their dead. www.youtube.com/playlist?list=… If you have the time, I recommend this video series. (Be warned, the speaker may make a few cracks about religion.)
>>Well, to be perfectly honest, it's more likely that Genesis (and the Bible in general) is the mythology of ignorant ancient peoples who had no knowledge of genetics.
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I watched a documentary about the elephants a few years back - it's so interesting! 
I don't doubt that they can feel basic emotions like pain, sadness, fear, etc., but they do not have complex thoughts like humans do. Which is good, because if they did then it would be extra, extra cruel to butcher them for meat.
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Yes, animals don't have complex thoughts exactly like humans, but to say that they don't have morals at all is really just plain wrong. Many animals care for their young, cooperate in highly complex groups, share life-long monogamous partnerships, and even form relationships with other species. They do have a basic sense of right and wrong, otherwise they'd just do "immoral" things for no legitimate reason, like people and sometimes dolphins (yes, there are "psychopathic" dolphins who kill other animals for the fun of it).
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I'm not exactly religious to be truthful, butyour logic to this whole thing is splendid. It was definitely interesting to read this, thanks for the enlightenment!
...It would've been nice to live 1000 years though. At least I can blame someone for that. >:I
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Thank you, I'm glad you got something out of it.^^
Lol that blasted Eve, huh?
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Yeah, I could've lived nearly a thousand years, but nooooooo! Q_Q
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This answered a lot of my questions, thanks
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I totally get what you mean, sometimes there's just something that tugs at your curiosity and you need to know!
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I wondered about this a lot, but when in high school I read an article very similar to this one
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Thanks! ^^
Speaking of the immune system, it's really interesting, because when you look at the Bible's chronology, before the flood everyone lived hundreds of years, but after the flood, everything went downhill. Noah lived to 950, Abraham lived to 175, Moses to 120, and it just went down to our current live expectancy.
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Yeah, ikr? but after we reah 70-80, the immune system hits rock bottom and cannot degenerate again
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Haha, totally!
Definitely. Like I said, it's not a freaking science book, so you won't find the theory of relativity inside it XD but it doesn't say anything against what has been proven today. ^^
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What an idea to make a series about it. Nice examples included too, hehe.
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Haha, glad you like it!
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great work on this! totally agree!
ugh. people will find any way to misinterpret our religion to prosecute us. pfft. there is an explanation for EVERYTHING in the bible but some are very complicated for us to understand
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Yes, yes there is.
Pretty much every issue people have with Christianity has some sort of explanation in the Bible, but of course, it won't make any sense if they don't want to understand it.
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Like many atheists. Spitting out objections sugarcoated with layers of lies.
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It doesn't matter if you're a farmer or molecular biologist, if you're willing to learn, you will. But if you can't take it seriously long enough to study, you'll never understand it. "But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." (1 Corinthians 2:13)
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Actually people will try and use anything to make fun of Christianity and Judaism which the Bible is about. Religions pass away, but God remains.
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I think people with the least knowledge are people who'd tell the most lies.
You said it perfectly! God will remain forever!
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