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Psyco-The-Frog β Serious and Engaging Elements
Published: 2013-09-04 20:42:00 +0000 UTC; Views: 2908; Favourites: 27; Downloads: 6
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Yeah, people put so much focus on not taking the games seriously, they forget that, at least starting from 3 & Knuckles, had serious and engaging elements within the game. Looking at Sonic Colors, every character was a self aware joker and the game overall was completely shallow in all regards that people apprciated in Sonic games outside the gameplay, and even that leaves much to be desired.Related content
Comments: 66
Because you're not able to handle good content right?
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"You're dead if you aim onlyΒ for kids. Adults are only kids grown up, anyway." - Walt Disney
This very quote should be spread around the fandom to all people who complain about "serious" elements.
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Couldn't agree more. And animation should always have style besides just trying to be cute. For example both Sonic and Tails balanced cute and cool elements in their design and took insperation from classic characters like Mickey Mouse but in a way that was modern at the time
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Then they'll keep talking about how "Adult's can like kiddy things", even tho it mainly applies to them and their peers. The funny part about it though, while some adult will like kiddy things, it's only SOME kiddy things. None of them go around preaching how the like light hearted shit and are tired of everything bieng serious. I know people who can't even stand the site of a cartoon being on(Then again, what adult outside of the people we're talking about can these days)?
Here's the other part about this, a lot of kids actually prefer mature and sports games, and feel most games for their age are too kiddy.
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Not the point.
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You're bent on Colors aren't you? Just because a game has serious and engaging MOMENTS, doesn't mean the whole GAME has to do that. It is a game after all. Why get all bent out of shape a about a video game? Video games are meant to be playable, and have a good time playing it.
I enjoy playing Colors,Unleashed, Generations, and Lost World (It's difficult like Donkey Kong). Yes, sales matter to big corporations, but feedback is just as important. Sega isn't too bad at the feedback of what makes a game playable. I can't play 06, and have a good time. It boggles the mind to think how people would like to play that awful game. Most people bought the game because after all the bad stuff they heard, they wanted to get it to see if it was really as bad as they had heard.
Sonic is a video game. If you want him to be all hardcore, then stay in the comic books, but don't bring that stuff on the games. I never play Sonic games for the story, because yeah, it's boring, and the characters are stale, but the comics kept a fresh story. Boom refreshed the cast. Now get off your high horse, and see sonic for what he is; a super advanced toy you play on your TV.
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"You're bent on Colors aren't you? Just because a game has serious and engaging MOMENTS, doesn't mean the whole GAME has to do that"
Again, trying to tell me that Sonic shouldn't do what actually worked for him.
"It is a game after all. Why get all bent out of shape a about a video game? Video games are meant to be playable, and have a good time playing it"
Being a video game has nothing to do with anything, it's as if you're implying being one means.... what exactly again? That he doesn't have to be engaging? I.E., reaching his potential and being appealing to his fans and everyone as well? And you'reΒ trying to school me on what video games are about, yet has nothing to do with anyone but you and your peers. Video games aren't just about playing, it's what you're playing, that why people prefer certain games over others, they don't just "Play to Play" all willy nilly, though they are SUPPOSE to be enjoyable, but some games aren't to people. This is just way too desperate of a attempt at making a point, and has nothing to do with the subject.
"I enjoy playing Colors,Unleashed, Generations, and Lost World (It's difficult like Donkey Kong)."
That matters because....?
"Yes, sales matter to big corporations, but feedback is just as important. Sega isn't too bad at the feedback of what makes a game playable. I can't play 06, and have a good time. It boggles the mind to think how people would like to play that awful game. Most people bought the game because after all the bad stuff they heard, they wanted to get it to see if it was really as bad as they had heard"
Sales matter to big corporations? Are you implying that doesn't matter to the customers either? You do know if a company gets shut down, said customers can no longer get the games from the series they enjoy? Also, 06, I played the game myself to, and I was able to enjoy, as well as many other people, even giving the game good scores on gamestop.com along with people giving it bad scores. Not saying other people didn't enjoy the game, but you're making out as if nobody enjoyed it because you didn't. Also, that thing about buying 06 because it was bad, is a flat out lie. If anyone did buy a game because it was bad, it was people on the internet who were looking for a reason to argue. The Bottom line is, the game sold better then and then any Sonic game you just named(except Unleashed), meaning more people supported it, making it the more successful title. You can't defer from that point no matter what lies you come up with.
"Sonic is a video game."
This again. Should I tell you this has no baring on anything at all? Nothing you're trying to imply is actually correct.
"If you want him to be all hardcore, then stay in the comic books, but don't bring that stuff on the games."
So you get offended by Sonic games being hardcore, cause it's grown ass men like you who made this fanbase out to be losers, even blaming kids for how "hardcore and trying to hard" Sonic was before Colors, even though Sonic was made to be kiddy in the first place. So hypocritical.
"I never play Sonic games for the story, because yeah, it's boring, and the characters are stale, but the comics kept a fresh story"
You are just so ignorant man, LMAO. I agree with the comics but your words altogether man, it's just... wow. Let's recap:
"Just because a game has serious and engaging MOMENTS, doesn't mean the whole GAME has to do that"
"It is a game after all. Why get all bent out of shape a about a video game?"
"I can't play 06, and have a good time. It boggles the mind to think how people would like to play that awful game."
"Sonic is a video game."
"If you want him to be all hardcore, then stay in the comic books, but don't bring that stuff on the games."
Do I even need to go into how much of a hypocritical loser you sound like? It's wrong for me to think Sonic games should be cool, appealing, and engaging, but you don't even play the games for the story because it's boring to you, yet the games you like the most have the worst story. Coincidence? Plus, you think all this because, "Sonic is a video game", but it's ok for the comics? Why? Because it's not a video game?
I don't even need to go any further then this man. Again, DO YOU KNOW, how much, of a HYPOCRITICAL LOSER you sound like right now?
You man-children are something else. LMAO
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Hey, your opinion is your opinion. I'm just trying to help you understand that you don't need to get so defensive about Sonic.
If you don't like where the series is going get off the bandwagon, and go play Sonic 3. Go read the comics. But, majority rules, and the majority says where Sonic is going is okay. What worked in the 90's isn't working anymore. Sonic shouldn't be trying to keep up with people who grew up with him.Β
As someone who studies literature, and loves a good story, I find many things wrong in the plot of multiple Sonic games, even ones considered great titles. I play Sonic games in two modes; story, and gameplay. I will always admit when the titles I like personally have story flaws.Β
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"Hey, your opinion is your opinion. I'm just trying to help you understand that you don't need to get so defensive about Sonic."
And you sound like a sheep telling me to be one like you. I really think you guys be thinking everybody was born yesterday or something. For years,, it was ok for everybody to bash Sonic games, but if someone doesn't like the new titles coming out, all of a sudden, it's not ok, and yall get real defensive. Newflash, YOUR opinion, along with all the other guys who try to act like kiddy content is good, is what's been making the series fail more and more since 2010. YOU guys, are the one with the opinions, so keep them to yourself, cause nobody but other fanboys on the internet actually cares about them.
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IGN only bashes Sonic because they have absolutely NO idea what they're doing. I'm also just trying to point out that there are good things in most Sonic games. Even Boom.
Okay, if that's what you think. Just remember, you can just jump off the bandwagon if Sonic's new direction is too much for you. Go back and play what you consider good games, and let the current generation enjoy what's there.Β
And there's nothing wrong with kiddy content. Sometimes being a kid is a lot more rewarding than being an adult.
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EXACTLY. Β CHARACTER DESIGN AND CONCEPT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HOW SERIOUS OR ENGAGING A STORY CAN BE. Β As much as I love certain YouTuber's I don't like how ever since they expressed their opinion about character design and lighthearted ness so many fans have decided to parrot that opinion as some indisputable fact and have started demeaning people who want serious and engaging stories in this franchise.
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Same here. Even the old Genesis Sonic was more serious and not so jokingly than Sonic Colors and Lost World.
We need more people like you, who truly understand.
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Yes, but adding more seriousness dosen't mean turning the series into something dark/depressing like "Terminator" or "The Dark Knight" (like what most older fans want). The series is a fantasy/sci-fi action-adventue series with colorful characters and whimsical elements. Making it more gritty just makes it feel pretentious and out-of-place.
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The Terminator bit works a lot better then what we get now, plus, most people would prefer something like that over what we get now, even kids. Who cares if the characters are colorful, that doesn't mean they need to dumbed down either. Pretentious or not, it's still the more favorable option then what we have now.
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Yeah, but still. There is such a thing as "being taken too seriously."
With "Terminator", it's a story about the uprise of technology and how mankind should carefully consider the future. With the "Dark Knight", it's a story addressing the problems that come with being an icon, but with Batman characters. You can replace them, and it wouldn't change anything. Both are, at their core, stories intended to be deep and mature.
Sonic, at its pure basics, is a series about a blue, anthropomorphic hedgehog that can run at supersonic speeds that fights against an egg-shaped mad scientist that's turning everyone into robots. You can interprete the series however you want (as a environmental message, or how industrialism can oppose freedom), but that still doesn't excuse the fact that it's still a series about a fast, blue hedgehog. It's the same reason why stuff like "Super Mario Bros." and Popeye never get serious adapations.
Honestly, I think the older fanbase has outgrown the series. The series has always been for kids, and they were kids back when they first saw it. But kids grow up, and a lot of the stuff we enjoyed through nostalga doesn't hold up well because their tastes have changed. The older we get, the more we crave for something meaningful. It's only natural. But it becomes a problem when we view our opinions as the definitive truth that everyone should fallow, and look down on anyone else who thinks otherwise.
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So your thoughts on Generalorder4 's interpretation of the series?
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The guy has certainly put a lot of thought into his work, but it's not my cup of tea. It's a bit too serious for my liking; hardly the reason why I enjoy the franchise.
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But you make it out as taken things "too seriously" is a problem, when one can easily cite Lion King and Land Before time on that issue. Sonic being a fast blue hedgehog has no dictation on how the series could be like, in fact, being cooler and having more engaging storyline as cartoony as he looks made him the better option for a lot of people. If anything, the belief that the series needs to be taken lightly or "not too seriously" because of that is pretentious itself.
Now, you you go on about the older fanbase again, yet you seem to think the younger audience is any different, when they can be on any side of the fence as we are, just not on the net talking about it, however, it's pretty clear kids prefer more mature games unless there you got something that can really get their(Pokemon). In any case, the older fanbase didn't outgrow Sonic, Sonic was growing up along side us actually, but Sega decided to make the series geared towards children, who no one has no real info that they wanted Sonic that way. The funny part is, again, about the older fans outgrew Sonic, but it was actually other older fans(many who came into the series after sonic started having Nintendo titles) who wanted the series to be more childish. I'll even post about it here:
gamebabble.wordpress.com/2010/β¦
Chapter 9: Blame the Children
With the fandom spiraling into a shrieking madness and spewing increasingly bizarre theories as to how to βsaveβ Sonic, many fingers tend to get pointed. Everyone had a theory as to what exactly was βruiningβ Sonic. Was it the overabundance of characters? Was it the increasingly overblown storylines? With everyone asking βWhy?β, SEGA revealed the horrifying truth: βWell, the kids seem to like it!β
Except that truth isnβt horrifying at all! In fact, a sane person would call it blatantly obvious! Sonic is a blue hedgehog, of course children are his target demographic! But Sonic fans are far from sane at this point. They took this as a revelation. SEGA openly admitting that they market Sonic to kids means theyβre taking advantage of them. The theory is that kids donβt know any better and thus SEGA can produce complete garbage and the kids will still love it because theyβre stupid. More than that, kids have no appreciation for Sonicβs long history or staying true to his roots. As such, kids became the prime scapegoat for everything anyone didnβt like in a Sonic.
This is both sad and hilarious. Here we have people in their 20s and even 30s arguing with children about a blue hedgehog. Whatβs more, in a sort of sick ironic twist, the kids actually want the Sonic series to be less childish while the older fans want it to be more childish! One canβt help but wonder if the entire Sonic fandom comes from Bizzarro World.
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Once again, another problem rears its ugly head. The fact that children won't be children forever. The fans who liked the stuff they published back when they were younger won't be in their target range any longer and tend to move on to other things; like a grown child not being able to wear his younger set of clothes because he no longer fits them.Β When that happens, parents don't request the clothes' manufacture to start making older kids clothes. They go to another brand that happens to make clothes the perfect size for their growing child.
And that's what Sega is. Older fans are difficult to please, so they continue with targeting their regular demographic. The other problem is the fact that they're very narrow in terms of merchandise. There are older fans that still enjoy the fanchise, but there's not much they can enjoy. They can provide some alternatives for them, like the ongoing Archie comics; but some just aren't satisfied with it. Once again, it's a very wide crowd to cover, and they just don't have the time or resources for it.
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I don't mind Sonic being silly,but i wish the current games had more engaging moments.
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Pretty much. They just removed the engaging moments JUST to be silly, because fanboys couldn't handle serious games.
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Lost World kinda tried serious moments,but the serious moments in that game are both mean spirited and overly dramatic.
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And just not good in the first place. People talking about the world dying and all we saw was the world turning white, like in generations.
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Not to mention that Lost Worlds has ALOT of plot points that NEVER get explained.
Like how did Robotnik get out of the white world from Generations,Where did he find that conch,Where did the Deadly Six come from,Why are they evil,How did Tails change back from a cyborg to his old self again,How does Tails know about the lost hex when it's supposed to be a "lost world"(Hence the game being called lost world.),Etc.
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Of course until we get to sonic colours that is.
But yeah, it was a series made to be takesΒ seriously. go look at sonic adventure 2, listen to "this machine" or the much, much darker Metarex saga from the Japanese version of Sonic X.
This is why I'm still (deeply) interested in the series even at 17 years old, though I left Mario and Zelda behind for the most part.
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Hell I'm in my 20's and feel the same way, but I was never into Zelda, and Mario is ok until you start playing other games, then you start to realize how much Mario is lacking.
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And Sonic the comics, archie and fleetway.
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Don't forget Sonic X Metarex saga.
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That was the only good part of Sonic X.
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And yet you never even gives that part a honurable mention. No, you just keep go on bashing Sonic X for being SO lighthearted, despite being darker than SatAM (which wasn't even that dark to begin with) at parts! Like the Shadow and Metarex Saga.
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1 season out of a whole series. And yes, I will bash SOnic X because it still portrayed the series as lighthearted and more japanesy then what Sonic was liked for. On that note, Satam was still darker.
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Well of course its gonna be potrayed Japanese when it's done in flippin Japan. And no, Satam wasnt overall darker than X serie 2 and The shadow saga. More balanced, yes,but not Overall.
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And the japanese make Sonic seem more light hearted then, which adds to the point that it was less darker the Satam, which used the premise of Robotnik being a more serious villain who actually won, turned mobians into robots, and had his own city, which was a dark and depressing wasteland. Also, what do you mean by serie 2? Season 2? Which was a remake of a game and not it's own original content? The main part that was dark about X was that last season and it still had more light hearted moments then satam, which in comparison, was dark to balance.
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And the japanese make Sonic seem more light hearted then, which adds to the point that it was less darker the Satam, which used the premise of Robotnik being a more serious villain who actually won, turned mobians into robots, and had his own city, which was a dark and depressing wasteland.
Are you saying that Japanese kids shows are lighter than American?
Also, what do you mean by serie 2? Season 2?
Series 2 is what you Americans loves to call season 3. Sonic X concluded after the original serie ended (episodes 1 - 52) but due to popularity in American and Europe, they created yet another 26 episodes. Resulting in those episodes being called Series 2.
The main part that was dark about X was that last season and it still had more light hearted moments then satam, which in comparison, was dark to balance.
While that season had more lighthearted moments and had brighter colors than SaTAM, the season as a whole in it's setting and story and the moments that WAS dark (which were plenty) were much worse than SatAM.
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"Are you saying that Japanese kids shows are lighter than American?"
No, I'm saying Sonic was.
"While that season had more lighthearted moments and had brighter colors than SaTAM, the season as a whole in it's setting and story and the moments that WAS dark (which were plenty) were much worse than SatAM."
But those were moments though, Satam's setting was pretty grim from the start, which they just happen to have lighter moments written around, not the other way around like X.
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Can't fully agree here. Adventure adaptations were not half bad either. Though I agree they are not exactly that good compared to the 3rd season.
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The anime, thanks to 4kids, pretty much validated noob Sonic fans that Sonic was meant to be light hearted(in their eyes), not to mention the show itself overall, wasn't as good as past cartoons like SATAM and Underground. The Adventure adaptions themselves, were just that, adaptions, meaning the show's own original stories weren't good up until the 3rd season, so I can't really give it credit. Think of this, what if Adventure 1 and 2 had not existed, and the show had no adaptions at all? Who's to say it would've gotten any better at that point. Even then, again, 4kids pretty much fucked it up.
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Sonic X wouldn't even exist to begin with if it weren't for those games.
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What about the first season, which wasn't based on any of the games until later?
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You can clearly see the elements. Like Rouge for example. She debuted in episode 11 of X and in Sa2. Its simple: No SA,no Sonic X. Regardless how true season 1 were to the source material.
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You're basically denying the fact that Sonic X could exist without the games, because of one character, despite the first season not having anything to do with the games. You don't need to go this far to prove a point that's not only false, but hardly makes a difference.
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What part of "for example" is it you dont understand?
Every show and comic is based on the games. Either losely or pragmatic.
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Not based on actual events of the games though, which Sonic X did for 2 seasons, but I thought you meant just in canon.
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And you know what else they did? They subbed the Japanese version themselves and uploaded them on HULU.
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