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quacky112 β German H-Class BB Turret
Published: 2012-04-05 14:01:57 +0000 UTC; Views: 15381; Favourites: 211; Downloads: 0
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Description
I have been working on making a highly detailed model of a H-Class German Battleship. I decided to make it around 315 m in length putting it somewhere between the designs of the H-42 and H-43 concepts. So far I've finished the turrets, the hull and have started work on the bridge and tower structures. I figure I have about another month of work left. This is one of the main turrets, turret 1 to be exact. I decided to go with a 56cm gun about 22in making it by far the biggest armament ever put on a battleship. When its finished I hope it will be truly as grand and powerful as it was intended to be.Please tell me what you think.
And btw if you wondering what a H-class battleship is it was a series of battleships designs developed by Germany during WWII. They were never built however due to the war.
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Comments: 30
It was mostly a fantasy that was not taking into account resources and time available to Germany.
However H programm had several interesting solutions to work around treaties. I especially liked 2 gun wide turrets and 406mm guns with abnormally thick barrel walls. Because that was 3 gun turret with only two guns and a 420mm cannons with extra barrel thickness. The moment war becomes inevitable, ship goes to dock, they cut out armor in place where 3rd middle gun is supposed to be, redrill the guns to their true caliber and intall everyting. Boom, plus 20% more salvo mass out of nowhere
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I don't think there was an H45 design, but if there was such a design, then the Germans would've had a true beast at their disposal had they gotten around to building it.
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It would have taken a decade to build. And by that time conventional BBs would have died out in favor of missile battlecruisers. Until we get railguns up and running, missile battlecruisers like Kirov class will be using that niche.
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Very nicely designed turret, but the Germans were fans of dual gun turrets. Even their pocket battleships and Deutschland- class initially armed with three gun turrets were to be upgraded to dual 15 inch turrets if the war hadn't put a stop that.
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Really? The 15" guns seem quite big for the pocket BBs
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Actually I misspoke earlier it was the Scharnhorst class that the rearmament was planned for.
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They are quite big for the pocket BB's but the Germans were looking to increase the firepower of those ships. And have uniform armaments for their capital ships. Needless to say they weren't able to complete these plans.
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How thick is the armor on this turret? And what about rate of fire of the main guns?
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Thanks I just use Sketchup, and usually render with a program called V-ray in sketchup and mess around a little in photoshop sometimes. Β I enjoy your work as well, you have some great naval designs, what program do you use?
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Ah cool. I also use Sketchup but use Kerkythea as a render. And thank you
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Awesome Sketchup can make some great models if you spend time with it. Β I have messed around with Kerkythea briefly, I should look into it some more I think, your renders look great. Β
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It is easy to make simple models yes. But to do more advanced stuff is quite hard with SketchUp! Kerkythea is pretty easy to work with 
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Something like this You had in mind?
Interestingly she is still smaller and faster than the official H44 and she sports KW45 engines.
Displacement:
117,387 t light; 125,110 t standard; 135,459 t normal; 143,738 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,108.69 ft / 1,082.68 ft) x 150.92 ft x (43.96 / 46.20 ft)
(337.93 m / 330.00 m) x 46.00 m x (13.40 / 14.08 m)
Armament:
12 - 22.00" / 559 mm 52.0 cal guns - 5,685.08lbs / 2,578.71kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
4 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 6.00" / 152 mm 60.0 cal guns - 116.57lbs / 52.88kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
6 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 70,319 lbs / 31,896 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 20.0" / 508 mm 595.47 ft / 181.50 m 14.74 ft / 4.49 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 85 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.00" / 127 mm 595.47 ft / 181.50 m 42.33 ft / 12.90 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 38.0" / 965 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 24.0" / 610 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 11.00" / 279 mm For and Aft decks
- Conning towers: Forward 9.00" / 229 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 300,943 shp / 224,504 Kw = 30.80 kts
Range 16,000nm at 16.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 18,627 tons
Complement:
3,529 - 4,589
Cost:
Β£90.372 million / $361.486 million
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Yea something like that haha it seems you know your battleships. I was thinking the size of it would be closer to the h-43 design than the h-44 prob end up around 320 meters in overall length.
And I haven't yet decided on the size of the secondary armament, I know that it will be loaded to the brim with AA weapons however. I thought about maybe having 2 large guns at the the center of the ship as a secondary main armament if you will. I will likely go with 20.3 cm guns however for the secondary armament and maybe a couple 5-6 in guns as well.
Whatever I decide to do the main goal behind this project is to create a truly unique and intimidating battleship. Every take ive seen on the h-class bbs have them looking just like enlarged versions of the Bismarck class. I want this ship to obviously share design characteristics with the other Kriegsmarine ships but at the same time stand alone as a truly deadly creation.
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I personally think you need to Use the H44 Hull instead of the H43 to get a better Protected Ship.
Otherwise you'll end up with a Glorified HMS Hood.
--------------------
Displacement:
104,021 t light; 111,611 t standard; 129,569 t normal; 143,936 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,110.58 ft / 1,082.68 ft) x 157.48 ft x (39.70 / 43.48 ft)
(338.51 m / 330.00 m) x 48.00 m x (12.10 / 13.25 m)
Armament:
12 - 22.00" / 559 mm 52.0 cal guns - 5,685.08lbs / 2,578.71kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
4 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm 60.0 cal guns - 112.79lbs / 51.16kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
6 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 70,251 lbs / 31,865 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 16.0" / 406 mm 562.99 ft / 171.60 m 15.06 ft / 4.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 80 % of normal length
Main belt does not fully cover magazines and engineering spaces
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
4.00" / 102 mm 562.99 ft / 171.60 m 38.32 ft / 11.68 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 22.0" / 559 mm 9.00" / 229 mm 18.0" / 457 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 7.00" / 178 mm For and Aft decks
- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 300,728 shp / 224,343 Kw = 30.30 kts
Range 20,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 32,325 tons
Complement:
3,414 - 4,439
Cost:
Β£87.145 million / $348.582 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 11,655 tons, 9.0 %
Armour: 33,079 tons, 25.5 %
- Belts: 6,214 tons, 4.8 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,193 tons, 2.5 %
- Armament: 10,473 tons, 8.1 %
- Armour Deck: 12,371 tons, 9.5 %
- Conning Tower: 827 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 7,511 tons, 5.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 51,776 tons, 40.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 25,549 tons, 19.7 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
167,429 lbs / 75,944 Kg = 31.4 x 22.0 " / 559 mm shells or 29.5 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.11
Metacentric height 12.1 ft / 3.7 m
Roll period: 19.0 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.76
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.13
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.670 / 0.680
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 62
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 26.00 %, 42.65 ft / 13.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 12.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 22.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 27.95 ft / 8.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 82.8 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 194.8 %
Waterplane Area: 133,018 Square feet or 12,358 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 108 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 320 lbs/sq ft or 1,562 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 1.00
- Longitudinal: 1.02
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
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I like the sound of the secondary armament 24cm and 12.8cm sounds pretty good.
So you think the ship would need to be the size of H-44 class to have a 22in main armament? I guess I should have considered that when I decided to make the main gun so large.
Perhaps I should scale back the caliber or cut it down to 9 22in guns in three turrets. Or maybe even have 6 22in guns in 2 turrets and have perhaps 6x15 or 16in guns in two turrets.
Im not sure what the final design will be but you have indeed given me some considerable information to consider and ponder on. Perhaps I should just make you my design consultant haha.
I think I will sit back down and reconfigure the specs of this thing and then send you a note to see what you think.
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Another design...
This time I used the H43 hull
but I reduced the main guns from 12 to 9.
The result is a ship that is faster and slightly more armored than the H44 counterpart.
----------
Displacement:
105,158 t light; 111,611 t standard; 129,569 t normal; 143,936 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,110.58 ft / 1,082.68 ft) x 157.48 ft x (39.70 / 43.48 ft)
(338.51 m / 330.00 m) x 48.00 m x (12.10 / 13.25 m)
Armament:
9 - 22.00" / 559 mm 52.0 cal guns - 5,685.08lbs / 2,578.71kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
3 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, majority forward
1 raised mount - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm 60.0 cal guns - 112.79lbs / 51.16kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
6 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 53,196 lbs / 24,129 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 21.0" / 533 mm 552.17 ft / 168.30 m 15.06 ft / 4.59 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.00" / 127 mm 552.17 ft / 168.30 m 38.32 ft / 11.68 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 28.0" / 711 mm 12.0" / 305 mm 23.0" / 584 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 11.25" / 286 mm For and Aft decks
- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 300,728 shp / 224,343 Kw = 30.30 kts
Range 20,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 32,325 tons
Complement:
3,414 - 4,439
Cost:
Β£74.413 million / $297.652 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 8,895 tons, 6.9 %
Armour: 42,063 tons, 32.5 %
- Belts: 8,037 tons, 6.2 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 3,914 tons, 3.0 %
- Armament: 9,651 tons, 7.4 %
- Armour Deck: 19,633 tons, 15.2 %
- Conning Tower: 827 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 7,511 tons, 5.8 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 46,688 tons, 36.0 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 24,412 tons, 18.8 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
212,483 lbs / 96,381 Kg = 39.9 x 22.0 " / 559 mm shells or 45.0 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.24
Metacentric height 14.6 ft / 4.4 m
Roll period: 17.3 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.48
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.23
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.670 / 0.680
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.88 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 32.90 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 47 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 57
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 26.00 %, 42.65 ft / 13.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Aft deck: 11.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Quarter deck: 23.00 %, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m, 26.25 ft / 8.00 m
- Average freeboard: 27.95 ft / 8.52 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 68.6 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 194.8 %
Waterplane Area: 133,018 Square feet or 12,358 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 116 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 287 lbs/sq ft or 1,399 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.01
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
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Ok I downloaded it thanks for telling me about it seems like a pretty interesting tool.
I like the sound of both of those last two designs. Im going to spend some time messing around in springsharp see what I can come up with.
That last design though on the h-43 hull I really like the sound of that one. I mean even with 9 22in guns its still going to be the best armed ship on the seas. I think I might go with that direction just three main turrets of 3 22in guns.
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Also I need to add.
Springsharp is a little off with speed.
Above around 29 knots it gives you a 1 knot slower speed.
So Iowa has about 32 knot top speed in springsharp.
We know Iowa can do 33 Knots in real life...
What are you going to do with the 24 and 12.8 cm secondary guns?
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Go Here.
www.springsharp.com.
It's a battleship calculator.
Not the most accurate but it does a pretty good job in giving you a good estimate.
It will be a great help for your future endeavor in ship design.
Also the 24 and 12.8 cm guns are proposals as dual purpose guns for the navy in the war years.
It's interesting that they were never applied in the design of the H42,43 and 44.
Those vessels were also design studies and they were never intended for real construction.
Because of that Nobody really knows what the gun turrets of these DP guns would look like.
Though the Museum turrets of the Adolph gun might give you some inspiration..
[link]
It's amazing that they even contemplated a gun as big as 24cm/73cal to be used against aircraft.
You can squeeze twelve 22 Inch guns on a Hull the size of H43 providing you reduce speed to 27 to 28 knots to beef up protection.
Or you can scale back the number to twelve guns and keep her speed at 31 knots.
A 16 Inch belt seems impressive for Yamato but not for a vessel armed with 22 Inch guns.
The 22 Inch shells being about 66% more massive than that of Yamato's shell are punching right trough that.
If you want to have an all around balanced Vessel armed with this amount of Gun power I opt to go with the H44 Hull or larger.
Your ship concept is already packing over 66% more firepower than the original H44.
It's amazing the design still works with that increase in firepower.
I applied the same armament on the H44 hull and the result is a ridiculously powerful and yet very good seaboat.
Displacement:
123,320 t light; 131,341 t standard; 151,062 t normal; 166,839 t full load
Dimensions: Length (overall / waterline) x beam x draught (normal/deep)
(1,161.69 ft / 1,131.89 ft) x 167.32 ft x (41.67 / 45.40 ft)
(354.08 m / 345.00 m) x 51.00 m x (12.70 / 13.84 m)
Armament:
12 - 22.00" / 559 mm 52.0 cal guns - 5,685.08lbs / 2,578.71kg shells, 120 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
4 x Triple mounts on centreline ends, evenly spread
2 raised mounts - superfiring
18 - 5.91" / 150 mm 60.0 cal guns - 112.79lbs / 51.16kg shells, 400 per gun
Breech loading guns in turret on barbette mounts, 1946 Model
6 x Triple mounts on sides, evenly spread
Weight of broadside 70,251 lbs / 31,865 kg
Armour:
- Belts: Width (max) Length (avg) Height (avg)
Main: 20.0" / 508 mm 577.26 ft / 175.95 m 15.52 ft / 4.73 m
Ends: Unarmoured
Main Belt covers 78 % of normal length
- Torpedo Bulkhead:
5.00" / 127 mm 577.26 ft / 175.95 m 40.22 ft / 12.26 m
- Gun armour: Face (max) Other gunhouse (avg) Barbette/hoist (max)
Main: 28.0" / 711 mm 11.0" / 279 mm 22.0" / 559 mm
2nd: 6.00" / 152 mm 2.00" / 51 mm 4.00" / 102 mm
- Armoured deck - multiple decks: 10.50" / 267 mm For and Aft decks
- Conning towers: Forward 15.00" / 381 mm, Aft 0.00" / 0 mm
Machinery:
Oil fired boilers, steam turbines plus diesel motors,
Geared drive, 5 shafts, 302,674 shp / 225,795 Kw = 29.70 kts
Range 20,000nm at 19.00 kts
Bunker at max displacement = 35,498 tons
Complement:
3,830 - 4,980
Cost:
Β£91.983 million / $367.934 million
Distribution of weights at normal displacement:
Armament: 11,655 tons, 7.7 %
Armour: 47,029 tons, 31.1 %
- Belts: 8,272 tons, 5.5 %
- Torpedo bulkhead: 4,295 tons, 2.8 %
- Armament: 13,190 tons, 8.7 %
- Armour Deck: 20,354 tons, 13.5 %
- Conning Tower: 917 tons, 0.6 %
Machinery: 7,559 tons, 5.0 %
Hull, fittings & equipment: 57,078 tons, 37.8 %
Fuel, ammunition & stores: 27,742 tons, 18.4 %
Miscellaneous weights: 0 tons, 0.0 %
Overall survivability and seakeeping ability:
Survivability (Non-critical penetrating hits needed to sink ship):
234,448 lbs / 106,344 Kg = 44.0 x 22.0 " / 559 mm shells or 49.7 torpedoes
Stability (Unstable if below 1.00): 1.20
Metacentric height 15.0 ft / 4.6 m
Roll period: 18.1 seconds
Steadiness - As gun platform (Average = 50 %): 70 %
- Recoil effect (Restricted arc if above 1.00): 0.58
Seaboat quality (Average = 1.00): 1.29
Hull form characteristics:
Hull has a flush deck,
a straight bulbous bow and a cruiser stern
Block coefficient (normal/deep): 0.670 / 0.679
Length to Beam Ratio: 6.76 : 1
'Natural speed' for length: 33.64 kts
Power going to wave formation at top speed: 45 %
Trim (Max stability = 0, Max steadiness = 100): 54
Bow angle (Positive = bow angles forward): 30.00 degrees
Stern overhang: 3.28 ft / 1.00 m
Freeboard (% = length of deck as a percentage of waterline length):
Fore end, Aft end
- Forecastle: 26.00 %, 45.93 ft / 14.00 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Forward deck: 40.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Aft deck: 11.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Quarter deck: 23.00 %, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m, 27.89 ft / 8.50 m
- Average freeboard: 29.76 ft / 9.07 m
Ship space, strength and comments:
Space - Hull below water (magazines/engines, low = better): 70.9 %
- Above water (accommodation/working, high = better): 204.9 %
Waterplane Area: 147,756 Square feet or 13,727 Square metres
Displacement factor (Displacement / loading): 112 %
Structure weight / hull surface area: 317 lbs/sq ft or 1,546 Kg/sq metre
Hull strength (Relative):
- Cross-sectional: 0.99
- Longitudinal: 1.03
- Overall: 1.00
Hull space for machinery, storage, compartmentation is excellent
Room for accommodation and workspaces is excellent
Ship has slow, easy roll, a good, steady gun platform
Good seaboat, rides out heavy weather easily
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I use Springsharp..
It's a rough Guide to aid in battleship design.
If your ship is armed with that amount of guns (12 X 22 Inch/52cal) on H43 Displacement you'll have a mediocre to under performing seaboat if you want to keep length down to 320 meters and speed as fast as 31 knots.
The Hull width of H43 is good at 48 Meters since the one that is calculated is 46 meters.
I need to recalculate it again.
As for secondary Armament.
By the Time H43 was designed the Navy was doing R&D on a powerful Dual Purpose gun.
So if your ship may have been built in this time frame she may have sported that weapon.
Actually according to a Battleship Board
there were 2 Dual Purpose Guns proposed to replace the 5.9 and 4.1 Inches around mid WW2 but never applied on H43 and H44.
They were this.
9.45 Inch/73cal (24cm) Long Range AA guns
and
5.04 Inch/60cal (12.8cm) AA guns
I don't know if these guns are in Single or Twin Gun Turret design but I believe the 24 cm gun may have come in single gun design to keep her bulk down so she can train faster when she aims at enemy aircraft.
The 24 cm gun would have been almost as long as the Gneisenau main gun and I have no Idea how the gun's liner would hold up.
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O_O
this is the best 3d turret model I have ever seen.
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I am definatley waiting to see this. Das is gutt.
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