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rationalhub β Victim Blaming and Objectification..
Published: 2012-10-18 16:41:42 +0000 UTC; Views: 5380; Favourites: 88; Downloads: 290
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Fucking hell, this. And still some people struggle to grasp this simple fact.PS: No victim blaming nonsense here, keep the comments civil and rational.
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Comments: 38
Do not engage lordmep. He refuses to provide evidence and will insult you. In short, he is a troll.
His claimed "evidence" is people who also have no evidence and have been proven to lie and mislead.
I'd advise ignoring him entirely.
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It isn't because she wasn't wearing the proper cloths but i'd like to point something out.Β
Teaching woman to avoid rape situations in general isn't victim blaming. Its basically about prevention and yah i say teach it to men so woman are not made out to be damsels in distress. It isn't about teaching to do your best to prevent the situations. For example teaching people to do double dates for first dates and go out on the town in groups as much as possible, meet your internet buddies in a public setting, to watch your drink, and if something seems off don't ignore it. That's not victim blaming that's just raising awareness.
Its sort of like preaching eat lots of tomatoes and you'll help prevent cancer. Your not blaming those that never touched a tomato your just saying "hey this can lower your risk"Β
Yah the whole cloths concept is misguided. 
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YES. THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE. I'd also use the analogy of locking your door instead of teaching thieves not to steal. Despicable scumbags are going to be despicable scumbags no matter what.Β
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Exactly. Its never the victim's fault. Just as it isn't your fault somebody lacked an honor system and decided to steal from you. But we should take precautions because you just never know. And better yet we should as a race learn to watch out for each other. I bet many horrible situations could be avoided if some bistander just spoke up.Β
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I am sick of all this patriachal, homosexual bullshit in the media, in society. Thank you for speaking out!
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Homosexual bullshit? You mean homophobic, right?
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While I don't think that anyone should go out in public (where there are children) dressed like they belong in a window in Amsterdam, it's really stupid to blame a victim for something they really have no control over. As previously stated, a rape is perpetrated by a rapist- a person who is capable of thinking and rationalizing. It is not like an earthquake or tsunami that just happens and causes damage without rhyme or reason. A rapist is not some helpless creature acting out of instinct; they are simply seeking control over another person, regardless of how that person is dressed.
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I think part of the victim blaming issue is that people treat rapists like forces of nature. That you can't reason with them, so the victims should take precautions against them the way one would dress for a snowstorm or heat wave.
It's a pretty asinine way to look at it, but I can't help but hope that's their reasoning, since thinking otherwise would destroy my faith in humanity. >>
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I keep saying this.
A womans clothing isn't a crotch magnet. It isn't going to force the man to rape her.
Drugs/alcohol are no excuse. They lower your inhibitions, they don't put a gun to your head and say "RAPE HER NOW!!"
If she was "asking for it", then why is it that she screams for help?
The way I see it, a real man can keep his dick in his own pants. A real man, regardless of situation, can think "huh, I don't want to ruin a girls life today. I think I'll just stay home.". Guys, stop making excuses for your bullshit and just don't do it. Very simple.
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What's confoudning is that you dress skimpy you are asking to get raped, so you dress conservatively and you are a prude who doesn't want attention. You cannot win.
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Exactly, your either a slut who deserves what she gets, or a nobody who is lost in the wallpaper.
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It's only going to get worse. I know a girl who went through sexual assult. It's not a fun thing. Especially when the idiot who did it was her step-father and he only got 2 years
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It's very sad that this is still a reality today.
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brings up an interesting point, the socialization of men to accept that they have less control of their body and of their actions, and that loosing control is normal and natural. I think more attention needs to be given to the poor job we do in socializing men.
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And who do you think enforces the idea that men are just mindless, sex driven beasts who will rape at the earliest opportunity? I'll give you a hint. It begins with an F. Men are not all rapists. When you count the rape of men by women as rape, you find that men are victimized as often as women. All the attention being placed on socializing men is to tell them what vile and dispicable future rapists they all are.
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"When you count the rape of men by women as rape, you find that men are victimized as often as women"
That's blatantly false.
The ones enforcing the idea that all men are rapists is...nobody. It's a strawman used to try to attack feminism. Add in your ignorance of how definitions work (claiming to be communist doesn't mean the USSR was communist and acting like your strawman is feminism doesn't change the definition) and it's obvious you're in a bubble.
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lordmep blocked me because he is unable to support his own claims.
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Fantastic rebuttal.
So when feminist groups go about saying that men need to be reeducated out of evil rapey masculinity, that isn't saying men are already rapists by default?
So you're no-true-scotsmaning the USSR? Oh of course. They just didn't do communism right, just like every other time it's been tried. We just need to communism harder and then we'll finally be able to live in a worker's paradise, right?
Here is your bubble www.youtube.com/watch?v=PIJSRi⦠Enjoy.
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You're using a strawman and then trying to act as if my refusal to accept that strawman is the no true scotsman fallacy.
Fail.
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I can see you're enjoying that bubble quite nicely.
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So you're trying to use "no you" as an argument?
It's not any better than the strawmen you were using before.
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I realized I was arguing with an SJW and realized it'd be easier to stop the tides. So I'll do this insteadΒ www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yn-_tfβ¦
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Really? Undoomed? Why not use an actual source?
Here's the thing: you called me a SJW because you've got nothing and it's a way to shut down the conversation. It's what the term is for.
I'm pointing out your strawmen and you're trying to bring in another strawman-user. That's not how it goes.
Do you even research?
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I'm just not that committed to restarting something that ended years ago.
I used to, but again, that was years ago. I will concede that, unlike years ago, there is now a rape culture in Europe. Mostly Sweden, for reasons I'm certain your gender studies teacher has told you not to consider. However, if it's research you want, this guy is greatΒ www.youtube.com/watch?v=ua8T4nβ¦
And I also like this guy for several of the issues he brings up, like the Duluth ModelΒ www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKOe1Sβ¦
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You don't know what a rape culture is, and it's hilarious how you people keep trying to use those statistics as if they mean what you claim them to mean.
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If it wasn't clear earlier, I have little interest in the argument, especially after you so flippantly ignore the evidence I offered through Sargon and Bearing. Don't see why you're so interested in a 4 year old thread, but it's obvious you wouldn't listen to anything I'd say even if I tried, so I won't. Good day.
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true! and yes, but it's more than just feminists, that seems like a too-convenient scapegoat (I'm not saying it's not their fault, but I don't have conclusive proof and don't like pointing fingers). if it began with feminism, it could not solely be the fault. proposing ideas does not make one wholly responsible for the actions of another, that other person is also to blame because they also have a brain. I think it is the fault of society at large for clinging to the idea (propelled by "feminists" or not) and people (all people) need to pay attention to and combat the negative male socialization that teaches worthlessness.
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Society has always bread men to be disposable, but it is the Marxist feminists who teach little boys to hate themselves. Feminists get into positions of authority where they teach the teachers of children. Pretty sure that puts the burden on them because "the other person" agrees with them to the point where he/she is one of them.
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correct me if I've mistaken you again, you consider everyone who has been influenced by feminist ideas a feminist? If so than I still don't buy it, because a "feminist" refers to a movement rather than a system of ideas, and has a historical spin on it to confuse the idea of it even more. I'm not sure if you will ever convince me to pit myself against "feminists". I think that the medicine is in the perspective, that it is not so much someone's fault as it is our responsibility. If it is our responsibility than it is still someone else's fault, but we do not hate them for it
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Everyone who takes it to heart. For instance: if you go to a women's studies class which enstills the feminist belief that all men are abusers and all women are victim, and later in life you turn away a man who has claimed to be victimized, then you, your teacher, and the ideology taught all share varying amounts of the responsibility.
Ok. Here's a fun brain teaser. What motivation do the feminists who run domestic violence shelters (because almost all shelters are run by feminists and get their funding from the state based on feminist ideals) have to even attempt to solve the problem of domestic violence? None. Because as long as there are broken families, they will go on to produce broken children who know no other life than that of abuser/abused. This endless cycle of abuse ensures that the feminists who work at these shelters will never lose their jobs. [link]
Don't fault and responsibility basically go hand in hand? If you are at fault for doing something wrong, then you must have had some degree of responsibility to do it right. That goes with another story of a woman who was brutally attacked by a man she met on Match.com. It was ultimately her choice to go on a date with this man, but she is now abdicating all responsibility for her choice by claiming the dating site was at fault.
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i suppose "feminist" could be a word to attach to the ideas, but then you get those who are confused and say "I'm not a feminist" but hold the same ideals, then you have to convince them that their ideas are called feminist so that you can tell them they are wrong. just an observation, but if it works for you, then more power to u
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If you hold the idea that only women are allowed to be considered victims and that all men are evil patriarcs, I don't care what you call yourself. I would still oppose you.
That example actually sounds like a common story I hear from a lot of new MRAs. They had always had these basic ideas, but then they found the MRM and suddenly those ideas were given structure.
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Feminism is supposed to be about equality for everyone. But damn, that has been ruined, and since forgotten.
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And communism was supposed to be about worker liberation, yet every communist nation has committed genocide.
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