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RCDeschene β Elemental Alchemy Chart
Published: 2007-09-07 15:33:28 +0000 UTC; Views: 18445; Favourites: 239; Downloads: 3
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Description
This is an Elemental Chart that represents the natural formulas that play out the Elemental Alchemical system. Each Element is corresponded with a symbol that is of an occult connection.There are many Elements that make up the universe. Everything in existence is composed of basic units of Matter. It is the Four Properties of Hot, Cold, Dry, and Wet that creates the four standard Elements of Fire, Earth, Water and Wind. Hot and Dry makes Fire, Dry and Cold makes Earth, Cold and Wet makes Water and Wet and Hot makes Wind. The Primary Elementals can create other natural substances:
Fire + Earth = Lava
Earth + Water = Nature
Water + Wind = Ice
Wind + Fire = Lightning
The Secondary Circle is formed from combining two of the Primary Elements. When a solid becomes hot enough it melts; when liquid is absorbed into soil it becomes muddy, in which grows forth plant life which provides nourishment for other creatures, or spawns deathly toxins; when liquid is exposed to cold air it freezes; and when the air becomes humid it builds up in the atmosphere and causes an electrical reaction. It is from the Secondary Circle where even more Elementals can be naturally forged into Matter:
Lava + Nature = Stone
Nature + Ice = Dark
Ice + Lightning = Space
Lightning + Lava = Light
When magma and mud mix it fossilizes, it is from this mineralized process that also forms crystals, gemstones and metallic ore; when something thick and cluttering blocks radiance in a surrounding it casts a cool shade; when the temperatuer lacked outer masses interacts with electrical energies it conducts celestial occurrences, in which causes gravitational forces and allows things such as sonic waves to vibrate, which also forms cosmic drains and dimensional rifts of temporal effects; and when electric plasma meets with a heating fuel it emits a glow. There is a Divine Element that can be created from combining all Elementals of the Tertiary Circle:
Light + Stone + Dark + Space = Spirit
When the forces of Yang, Matter, Yin and Energy come together in Universal Law, it makes up the ethers that sustains existence; the mana that forms all souls and the source of all psychic illusions. It is the Final Elemental that recreates the the Four Properties and in which repeats the Elemental Alchemical Cycle.
The Legend:
Fire: Outer North Red; Upright Triangle (Traditional)
Earth: Outer East Green; Upside Down Triangle with Line (Traditional)
Water: Outer South Blue; Upside Down Triangle (Traditional)
Wind: Outer West Gray; Upright Triangle with Line (Traditional)
Lava: Middle Northeast Orange; "U" Shape with Curves (Summer)
Nature: Middle Southeast Yellow-Green; Circle with "Antennas" (Spring)
Ice: Middle Southwest Light Blue; Doorway with Dots (Winter)
Lightning: Middle Northwest Yellow; Curved "M" Shape with Cross (Autumn)
Light: Inner North White; Circle with Dot (Sun)
Stone: Inner East Green-Blue; Circle with Cross (Venus)
Dark: Inner South Black; Crecent (Moon)
Space: Inner West Violet/Purple; Circle with Arrow (Mars)
Spirit: Center "Pink"; Circle with Horizontal, Vertical & Diagonal Lines (Traditional)
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Comments: 143
Void in the sense that they all just cancel-out, maybe.
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Nope, they don't cancel out completely because spirit remains uninfluenced.
Spirit is strengthened if you throw all together.
Remove spirit in the center and indeed all cancel out each other.
The formula for void [or chaos] is a very different one.
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In this version, Void is under Space and Chaos is under Dark.
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By the way, this is an outdated version. I've long since updated it, just haven't uploaded in years.
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I love your artwork! It has totaly helped me with an element-based story I am trying to write!
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Glad it helped! :3
What's the concept?
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well i have umbrakinesis. i've had it now for 5 years now.
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I'm making an element chart based on a fictional universe which consists of windows 95 icons.
Though I'll have 32 elements instead of 13 so it's kinda hard to figure out how everything fits together but your theories gave me some new ideas!
I mentioned your work in my journal: [link]
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The thing i don't get about this is the earth and water making nature. Sure, it makes plants and stuff, but it also makes LIFE, which contradicts the spirit aspect. If only biological creatures have spirit in general, then that unbalances the graph.
also: the secondary circle sounds more like you're ignoring the common sense that's supposed to balance them out.
Stone is earth. Theres nothing to argue about that. Lava is just molten rock that returns to its charred elemental state when cooled.
Nature and ice does not equal dark. Even if you have a giant boulder(earth) casting a shadow, it'll become cooler, that's natural law.
Ice + lightning = Space??? X_X wat? The only thing that can effect space is gravity and dark matter; he only thing that can effect gravity is mass. Energy cant effect space.
Light is just protons and neutrons.
I don't want to sound mean or anything, but i think the second circle deviates from the original purpose of balancing the natural elements.
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With Nature, you are absolutely right. Nature is the Elemental that abodes Life & Death. The blending of Earth and Water actually produces various effects, Plants, Toxins, Biomatter, etc. This is why the broad term "Nature" is most appropriate for this area. This is the very method I use in respect with the βStoneβ Element with itβs realm of minerals. But what you particularly analyze is the attribute that my Plant entity embodies. A direct example of this idea is the Flower Element in Kingdom Hearts; most notably Chain of Memories with differing properties between Sora's Cure (Life restoring leaves & bell flowers) and Marluxia's peddles (Death inducing sakuras/cherry blossoms). But even with these truths, you must keep in mind that the point of Spirit is that it connects and exists in everything, organic or inanimate.
As for the Secondary & Tertiary advancements, you're thinking too logically. The concoctive relations you see between the Primary (Fire, Wind, Earth, Water) and the Secondary (Lava, Lightning, Nature, Ice) is actually taken directly from traditional table group "pencil & paper" RPG concept. Sure there's argument that rationalizes the actual physical relations between all these substances, but bear in mind that you are to see this more metaphorically. Like with Space equating to Lightning & Ice; sure, perhaps in realistic geology electricity and solidified liquid wouldnβt exactly produce a G-force effect. However, as I also directly explain in the description, Space itself is the endless temperature absent mass contained with electrical & magnetic as well as everything solar that runs celestial occurrence in the cosmos.
Like I said, in order to fully understand this concept, you need to go about it with a more metaphorical (like true alchemical understanding) and RPG-like perspective. This is because this actually something I plan on incorporating into game someday.
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Regardless if spirit connects everything, the elements should be able to balance themselves and still make logical sense since you're using Alchemy. I understand your ambition towards turning this into a cohesive game design feature in the future, but there's a fine line between balancing a concept, and balancing a concept that makes sense within its own reality.
The classical elements for alchemy does indeed show metaphorical balancing, but at the same time, they make sense so that within the idea they are trying to convey, it makes a whole lot of sense. All of the elements generates and destroys each-other, creating a cycle which resonates in typical "Rock paper scissors" RPG gameplay features. Fire beats air, air beats water, water beats earth, earth beats fire. cool. They all mix to create lava, lightning, ice, and nature...alright, it kidna makes sense. I can live with that. Ice + Lighting = Darkness: ...what?
It deviates from the elements and kinda strays away from the reality of the concept your making. Sure, you can have darkness and light and what not in rpgs, that's totally fine. Its your game. The thing about this that is troubling me is the fact that you're using scientific study of equivalent generation and destruction of elements (such as alchemy) and trying to blend it with non-scientific attributes like light and darkness. I understand what space is, and i can tell you that it is not magnetic. If its simply space, its nothingness;void.(besides, it cant be electrical or have magnetic waves if its a temperature absent mass 
(yes, i understand alchemy isn't completely realistic since at the moment, it is impossible to break down elements in its atomic state and rebuild it. Its the fact that these theories, regardless of our current capabilities, make materialistic sense.)
Overall, you cant have balance without logical sense. Saying that its just an rpg element is fallacy - which is why not many designers who make rpgs try not to make up their own balance based on realistic views.
I'm not trying to tell you how you should make your game or anything, i'm just expressing my opinion on this concept you've designed.
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Yes, Elements are supposed to balance themselves out, but even in real Alchemy, much like any Western Elemental Philosophy concepts the central presence of a fifth etheric element that connects all of them, especially if you know a thing or two about witchcraft.
And correction: my Lightning + Ice = Space, not Darkness.
But what about Gravity and other cosmic energies? Some of them do in fact have electric properties. I've seen plenty of instances in media where gravity-oriented abilities display electrical occurences with it's effects. Like I told you before with the Nature entity, some of the elements that I name are actually broad terms for various sub-elementals of it's department. Space in this instance encompasses things like Gravity, Time, Nova Energy, Void, etc.
I know very well that this structure dosen't make 100% realistic sence. The way this is concepted is in way that can be compared to the likes of flash games such as "Doodle God" and "Alchemy Evolution", interactive puzzles concepted on elemental combination rules very much identicle to this one here that has the player creating rather abstract substances from interesting equivilants. Play the games, you'll see what I mean.
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I never disregarded the ethereal element, so i don't know why you're refuting it <_<;;. Also,
The darkness was a typo. I meant space there.
Yes, interactional forces could be associated with electricity, but that's just breaking it down to protons and neutrons. Fire, ice, even earth can produce it in the right situations. Plus, you've said "Space itself is the endless temperature absent mass" Well if its temperature-less....how it is electrical? β('ο½`οΌ)β. It not as much that electrical and ice cant derive from space (as much sense as that makes, i'll disregard it) its more of...why those and not other elements? (since its so broad). This is the feeling i get from this chart; regardless of whatever alchemic origins you've researched.
I've already stated that i understand your reasoning and that its not going to be 100% accurate, but i'm just suggesting for you to not make it sound like you're pulling things out of nowhere. Stone, dark, light and space makes spirit? Even in fantasy i cant even begin to think of how that can ever make sense. Its subtle things like that that make me question how believable this concept is.
I'm not so much questioning the logic of it, but how believable it is in its own fantasy. That's all.
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My apologies, I for a bit it sounded like you were questioning the Spirit Elemental.
If you notice the way how the Elements are patterned on the chart, they correlate in certain families. You have the Primary Fire, Wind, Earth & Water encompassing at the outer cycle, then they blend into their respective Secondary Para-Elementals of Lava (Fire), Lightning (Wind), Nature (Earth) & Ice (Water), this then extends to a Tertiary apparent equivalent in a fashion that directly reflects the advanced potentials of the Prime Elements as Light > Fire, Space > Wind, Stone > Earth, Darkness > Water. Finally, the four Kabbalic universal forces of Yang (Light), Energy (Space), Matter (Stone) & Yin (Dark) connect in the "Union Love" that is the universal quintessence, Spirit.
Okay, so I apparently I lied. I guess I do connect a whole hell of a lot of Hermetic Alchemical concept in this, but yeah. XD Don't get me wrong, I defiantly hear what you're saying and you are right, as fictional as fiction can be; even it has to make some realistic lick of sense if it wants to be interesting. However, like all things in fiction, sometimes the consumer has to willingly suspend disbelief for the sake of the Rule of Cool, if nothing more. And like I said, there are identical ideas already out there in simple game forms that have unusual elemental combination relationships themselves. So it's safe to perceive that sometimes a seemingly non-sensible balance is normal for these kinds of things.
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I already understood the concept from the first paragraph a long time ago <_<;;
As for what you said about fiction, I understand that, i'm just saying there are ways that you can get around this kind of block without having to resort to saying "yeah...disregard this." Because as something that's a main point of the story/game concept, it'll be poked at time and time again. Minor things that don't really play much importance don't really have to be explained since...well...they don't really matter.
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Well, you did ask why it was layedout the way it was. I was just spelling it out for you with all the philosophical method behind the maddness, so to speak.
Sure, they'll be those nit-picky critics. The best game concepts has them. But again, I wouldn't worry about it. It's as you say, not many are really going to care too much for it anyway. Plenty of people seem to have no problem with Doodle God or Alchemy Evolution, so there really no reason for a major concern about it. Besides, I never said that this was all that my game was going to have to it. If you've seen my other charts, you'll discover that in fact, that main mythos of the concept will be Astrologically focused. This is just how the practical Elemental system itself alchemically utilizes in gameplay.
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I didn't ask why it was like that, i asked how it made any sense beyond the second layer. You just reiterated the same explanation from the original post over and over again, not necessarily answering why the universal concept of space would derive from simplistic elements such as ice and lightning. I've understood the concept you posted; I see that. They just don't make sense.
Regardless of what your main concept is in the story, a concept describing the elements in the universe that doesn't make a lick of sense draws the person away from the concept - me in particular.
You wouldn't go along with a concept like this: [link]
just because its a game element and people should ignore it, right? This is the point i was trying to make. Nit-picky or not, as a game designer, you're trying to make a GREAT concept, not a mediocre one. Of course, that may be just me.
That mindset of "oh, well, he did it so...i'll do it too. And since they did it, it obviously makes sense since no one is writing an angry letter to the developers." will not make your idea original at all; So i wouldn't be comparing an idea to another just because nobody has any problems with it. (whoever this 'nobody' group is.)
I personally think you should separate the groups into concepts that people can easily distinguish so that they're not mixed in a way that defies how people naturally sees the elements. ie dark and light, the four elements, night and day,
- Just an idea.
However, if you have a concrete chart from historical alchemy that you're basing this off of that completely throws everything i've said off, i'd like to see it. I don't want to sound like i'm tooting my horn and giving you suggestions on something you're just referencing xP
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That's what I was trying to explain with that long explanation. Honestly, to answer your question bluntly and directly, I have no solid idea how idea how Ice & Lightning make the Space. I let the patterns themselves show ME that, as petty and ridiculous as it sounds. Think of it in the attitude of a Tarot Card Spread, if you know how the Tarot works, which is actually how most of this metaphysical stuff is actually philosophically concepted.
The link you gave me didn't work. So I can't really rebut much here. However, I do think you're being just a little judgmental to calling the idea "mediocre" simply based on this one piece of the concept alone. You're actually the only person who's really ripping on this. XD Trust when I say, you guys haven't even seen anything yet. 
Actually, the coincidental thing about this is, I wasn't at all trying to base my idea off the games I mentioned, as dead on with the idea I have as they are, seemingly illogical combinations and all. I actually didn't know about those games until a friend told me about them because they saw my charts here. And if youβre acknowledging that no oneβs making a big deal about it, what's the problem? If no one really complaining about it, why not allow it?
Actually, there are various other elemental methods I like to experiment with, this one's just my favorite, mainly because this is really my first and it actually has the most Alchemical allusion in it. Light & Dark are perfectly capable of being their own elements in a concept detached from the classical quartette, but alchemically and Kabbalisticly, Fire, like the Archangel Michael, is the Right White Pillar of Mercy (Yang/Light) and Water, like the Archangel Gabriel, is the Left Black Pillar of Severity (Yin/Dark).
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Always bugged me you couldn't mix fire and water (steam?), or earth and wind (dust?).
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Yeah, that's because the point with opposite elements is that they cancel each other out.
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Alright, that's a good reason.
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However, you are right. When Fire & Water meet, they create steam. This is to express the Sacred Marrige between Yin (Mother Water) & Yang (Fire Father) that produces thier Hermaphrodite Child (Balance Air).
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This is super cool. I've always liked the elements, so this really interested me.
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FEBE: For EleNerds, By EleNerd! ^^
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Awesome. I am definitely an EleNerd!
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I can't seem to figure out my secondary element on this chart. I did research on my zodiac sign and did a birth chart, and according to the birth chart, elementally, I'm a Fire/Air cross because my sun sign is Leo and my moon sign is Libra.
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Oh no, that'a not what Secondary means here.
Here the Elementals are spectrumed by level:
Primary = Fire, Wind, Earth, Water
Secondary = Lava (Fire & Earth), Lightning (Wind & Fire), Nature (Earth & Water), Ice (Water & Wind)
Tertiary = Light (Lava & Lightning), Space (Lightning & Ice), Stone (Nature & Lava), Darkness (Ice & Nature)
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Oh, ok, I get it now.
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So I guess you can call yourself Darkness-Wind
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Was trying to understand whats that but...I just dont get all those elements and other stuff you have here
Anyway, I love water and ice when it comes to elements 8D
And I came here from your YT channel, hehe
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Yeah, this is a concept heavily inspired from Traditional Western Alchemy and Classical RPG Elementalism. Basicly this is just a chart depicting how all the Elementals presented here are metaphysically connected.
And yeah, Water & Ice are a pretty cool pair. Dispite scientifics, if you think about it, Water & Ice are magically two different elements. Something I always try to explain to others in thier differences is that like their Alchemical Properties, Water Drowns in Wetness & Ice Freezes is Coldness.
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The explanation in this one will further help in design, beauty of a concept I must say
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Really? I greatly appriciate that!
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Think you could do one with the names of the thing writen on it instead of yhose interestiong symbols?
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Well of course I COULD...
But it would really dimminish the interesting factor.
Part of my parts the points to my charts are learning to understand the symbolism I choose.
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Well, write them below the symboles... I am interrested to understand... but I can't seem to XD
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Well, there's also the colors that help. Just use those as the guideline. ^^
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This is an interesting way to interpret the universe, kudos! You always have interesting things to share!
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